Sure, but a vertical is sensitive to air dens= ity=20 changes and wind generates these only too easily from many Hz downwards.

    His ques= tion about=20 the pressure cover is a good one. Normally the atmospheric
noise= we=20 see on the vertical is in the frequency range of minutes and is
reduce= d by a=20 factor of 10 or 20 by adding a sealed cover. If your vertical
is= small=20 enough to be covered by a cooking pot, that would work nicely. A=20
typical setup would be a very solid base slab, like 2-4" thick=20
granite with an inverted pot or similar container sealed down ov= er=20
it. The granite base is because pressure changes will cause anyt= hing=20 much
less solid to flex under the seismo and generate noise. Our= =20 experience was
that 3/4" aluminum flexes way too much. For seali= ng=20 things, including
cable openings, Dave Nelson has found that the putty= -like=20 windshield
sealant seems to work nicely.
    http://www.deta= ilandstripes.com/3mwirorise08.html =20 It sticks
things together very well, remains workable and is designed= to not=20 squeeze
out from between the windshield and car frame or in our case= the=20 base slab
and pressure container.

I can buy a similar product called Bl= uTack or=20 WhiteTack in flat sheet form about 1/8" thick. See http://www.artech-electronics.com/us/products/accesso/blutack.html&n= bsp;

If a vertical has any long period sensiti= vity=20 at all, it should be pressure sealed.

Or alternatively compensated? See htt= p://eost.u-strasbg.fr/alessia/papers/SundaySeismometer.pdf for=20 the Press-Ewing glass float compensated vertical seismometer. How about us= ing an=20 Aluminum Drinks Can?

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Caution on low pass filtering emphasis From: THOMAS DICK dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 14:22:01 -0500 Roger=2C I am out of town right now=2E I thought you were in Monroe LA =2E=2E=2EC= ould we talk by direct email=3F Mine is dickthomas01=40insightbb=2Ecom=2E= I will get back late Monday=2E = ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Brett Nordgren =3Cbrett3nt=40bnordgren=2Eorg=3E Date=3A Saturday=2C January 2=2C 2010 11=3A23 Subject=3A Re=3A Caution on=A0 low pass filtering emphasis To=3A psn-l=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E Hi Roger=2C =3E = =3E At 09=3A37 PM 1/1/2010 -0800=2C you wrote=3A =3E =3EHello Thomas=2C =3E =3E =3E =3EI took a look before and after the quake but did not see = =3E anything unusual=2E =3E =3E =3E =3ENot unusual for this location is to have a fuzzy trace (=7E1 Hz = =3E High Pass) = =3E =3Ebeginning about 0630 and ending about 1700 local times=2E=A0 = =3E Since I am using = =3E =3Ea vertical=2C I have attributed this to the sun warming the = =3E =3Eatmosphere=2E=A0 But=2C the noise does not seem to be present = =3E during non-work = =3E =3Edays which is completely inconsistent with a solar source=2E =3E = =3E Your description could almost be the definition for man-made=2C so = =3E called = =3E cultural noise=2E=A0 Natural phenomena=2C though some might drop = =3E at night=2C aren=27t = =3E usually affected by weekends and holidays=2E =3E = =3E =3E=A0 I live about 2 miles from any serious auto traffic which = =3E would be on = =3E =3E I-90 in Central Washington=2E=A0 I have no explanation for = =3E this =22fuzz=22 =3E = =3E I think that you are almost certainly seeing truck traffic on = =3E the = =3E Interstate=2E=A0 2 miles is plenty close for a sensitive instrument=2E= =3E = =3E =3EThe =22fuzz=22 is not visible with either the all pass or low pas= s = =3E filters in = =3E =3Eplace=2E =3E =3E =3E =3EOne puzzle here is that in the past I could get a fairly clean = =3E FFT peak at = =3E =3Eabout 6 seconds and little at longer periods=2E=A0 Lately=2C I = =3E notice a broader = =3E =3Epeak at 6 seconds and a second peak as low as 44 seconds (both = =3E very broad = =3E =3Epeaks)=2E=A0 I took a look at about 4 hours of data a few = =3E moments ago and = =3E =3Econfirmed what I had previously found=2E=A0 Would we be seeing = =3E the same thing=3F =3E = =3E The 6-second microseism peak is constantly changing=2C so = =3E changes=A0 there are = =3E not that surprising=2E =3E = =3E I agree that the low frequency peak might very well be the = =3E atmospheric = =3E stuff proposed by Chris=2C though verticals are mostly immune to = =3E the = =3E wind-caused ground tilting that is so annoying with = =3E horizontals=2E=A0 His = =3E question about the pressure cover is a good one=2E=A0 Normally = =3E the atmospheric = =3E noise we see on the vertical is in the frequency range of = =3E minutes and is = =3E reduced by a factor of 10 or 20 by adding a sealed cover=2E=A0 = =3E If your vertical = =3E is small enough to be covered by a cooking pot=2C that would work = =3E nicely=2E=A0 A = =3E typical setup would be a very solid base slab=2C like 2-4=22 thick = =3E granite=A0 with an inverted pot or similar container sealed = =3E down over = =3E it=2E=A0 The granite base is because pressure changes will = =3E cause anything much = =3E less solid to flex under the seismo and generate noise=2E=A0 = =3E Our experience was = =3E that 3/4=22 aluminum flexes way too much=2E=A0 For sealing = =3E things=2C including = =3E cable openings=2C Dave Nelson has found that the putty-like = =3E windshield = =3E sealant seems to work = =3E nicely=2E=A0 = =3E http=3A//www=2Edetailandstripes=2Ecom/3mwirorise08=2Ehtml=A0 It = =3E sticks = =3E things together very well=2C remains workable and is designed to = =3E not squeeze = =3E out from between the windshield and car frame or in our case the = =3E base slab = =3E and pressure container=2E =3E = =3E If a vertical has any long period sensitivity at all=2C it should = =3E be pressure = =3E sealed=2E =3E = =3E Good luck=2C =3E Brett =3E = =3E Watch our wiggles =3E http=3A//bnordgren=2Eorg/seismo/gif=5Fimages=2Ehtm =3E = =3E or watch some very very good wiggles =3E http=3A//aslwww=2Ecr=2Eusgs=2Egov/Seismic=5FData/telemetry=5Fdata/AN= MO=5F24hr=2Ehtml =3E = =3E = =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E = =3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) =3E = =3E To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with = =3E the body of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more informa= tion=2E =3E Roger=2C=3Cbr=3EI am out of town right now=2E I thought you were in Monr= oe LA =2E=2E=2ECould we talk by direct email=3F Mine is dickthomas01=40i= nsightbb=2Ecom=2E I will get back late Monday=2E =3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E----- O= riginal Message -----=3Cbr=3EFrom=3A Brett Nordgren =26lt=3Bbrett3nt=40b= nordgren=2Eorg=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3EDate=3A Saturday=2C January 2=2C 2010 11=3A= 23=3Cbr=3ESubject=3A Re=3A Caution on=26nbsp=3B low pass filtering empha= sis=3Cbr=3ETo=3A psn-l=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Hi Rog= er=2C=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B At 09=3A37 PM 1/1/2010 -0800=2C y= ou wrote=3A=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3BHello Thomas=2C=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26g= t=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3BI took a look before and after the quake bu= t did not see =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B anything unusual=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt= =3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3BNot unusual for this location is to have a f= uzzy trace (=7E1 Hz =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B High Pass) =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B= beginning about 0630 and ending about 1700 local times=2E=26nbsp=3B =3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B Since I am using =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Ba vertical=2C I h= ave attributed this to the sun warming the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Batmo= sphere=2E=26nbsp=3B But=2C the noise does not seem to be present =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B during non-work =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Bdays which is complete= ly inconsistent with a solar source=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B = Your description could almost be the definition for man-made=2C so =3Cbr= =3E=26gt=3B called =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B cultural noise=2E=26nbsp=3B Natural = phenomena=2C though some might drop =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B at night=2C aren=27= t =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B usually affected by weekends and holidays=2E=3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26nbsp=3B I live about 2 miles from any = serious auto traffic which =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B would be on =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= =26gt=3B I-90 in Central Washington=2E=26nbsp=3B I have no explanation = for =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B this =22fuzz=22=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B I = think that you are almost certainly seeing truck traffic on =3Cbr=3E=26g= t=3B the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Interstate=2E=26nbsp=3B 2 miles is plenty clos= e for a sensitive instrument=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B= The =22fuzz=22 is not visible with either the all pass or low pass =3Cbr= =3E=26gt=3B filters in =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Bplace=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3BOne puzzle here is that in the past I = could get a fairly clean =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B FFT peak at =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3Babout 6 seconds and little at longer periods=2E=26nbsp=3B Lately=2C= I =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B notice a broader =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Bpeak at 6 = seconds and a second peak as low as 44 seconds (both =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B ve= ry broad =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3Bpeaks)=2E=26nbsp=3B I took a look at a= bout 4 hours of data a few =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B moments ago and =3Cbr=3E=26g= t=3B =26gt=3Bconfirmed what I had previously found=2E=26nbsp=3B Would we= be seeing =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the same thing=3F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B The 6-second microseism peak is constantly changing=2C so =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B changes=26nbsp=3B there are =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B not that surprisin= g=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B I agree that the low frequency pea= k might very well be the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B atmospheric =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B s= tuff proposed by Chris=2C though verticals are mostly immune to =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B wind-caused ground tilting that is so anno= ying with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B horizontals=2E=26nbsp=3B His =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= question about the pressure cover is a good one=2E=26nbsp=3B Normally =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B the atmospheric =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B noise we see on the verti= cal is in the frequency range of =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B minutes and is =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B reduced by a factor of 10 or 20 by adding a sealed cover=2E=26n= bsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B If your vertical =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B is small enoug= h to be covered by a cooking pot=2C that would work =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B nic= ely=2E=26nbsp=3B A =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B typical setup would be a very solid = base slab=2C like 2-4=22 thick =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B granite=26nbsp=3B with a= n inverted pot or similar container sealed =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B down over =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B it=2E=26nbsp=3B The granite base is because pressure chang= es will =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B cause anything much =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B less solid= to flex under the seismo and generate noise=2E=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= Our experience was =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B that 3/4=22 aluminum flexes way too= much=2E=26nbsp=3B For sealing =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B things=2C including =3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B cable openings=2C Dave Nelson has found that the putty-like= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B windshield =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B sealant seems to work =3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B nicely=2E=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B http=3A//www=2Edetaila= ndstripes=2Ecom/3mwirorise08=2Ehtml=26nbsp=3B It =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B sticks= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B things together very well=2C remains workable and is d= esigned to =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B not squeeze =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B out from betwee= n the windshield and car frame or in our case the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B base = slab =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B and pressure container=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B If a vertical has any long period sensitivity at all=2C it shou= ld =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B be pressure =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B sealed=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Good luck=2C=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Brett=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B Watch our wiggles=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B http=3A//bnordgren=2Eorg= /seismo/gif=5Fimages=2Ehtm=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B or watch som= e very very good wiggles=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B http=3A//aslwww=2Ecr=2Eusgs=2Eg= ov/Seismic=5FData/telemetry=5Fdata/ANMO=5F24hr=2Ehtml=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26g= t=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST=40SEISM= ICNET=2ECOM with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the body of the message (first line on= ly)=3A unsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/m= aillist=2Ehtml for more information=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Subject: Hekla volcano From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 21:38:42 +0000 Hi all, There is a high risk of Hekla volcano erupting in next few months, weeks or days. The long term signs appears to be showing, as increased heat in the volcano. My Hekla seismomter is located something about 10 km away from the volcano. So when it starts, the rumble from the eruption is going to show there. Other volcanoes are also showing sign of activity, the other active one is Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. Magma intrusion is happening under the volcano and it is creating micro-earthquakes in the volcano. I will post a notifaction on the postlist when the eruption starts. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Caution on low pass filtering emphasis From: RSparks rsparks@.......... Date: Mon, 04 Jan 2010 05:59:40 -0800 Hello All, Thanks for the many comments. My seismometer is located in my "Wine Cellar" which is semi sealed. I do get wind noise but not too badly. Additional sealing would no doubt help reduce the very low frequency noise I am seeing. The instrument has a clear plastic cover sitting on three legs to prevent any rocking. No sealing here. About a month ago, I clamped the seismometer to the basement concrete floor. I thought it reduced the high frequency noise a little but have no obvious confirmation of improvement. My boom hinge is a spring, and the joints all seem tight. The daytime "fuzz" may be truck noise from the interstate two miles distant. I will do a little more to try to correlate this noise with dates, sunrise times, and weather. Thanks All, Roger __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: WinSDR decimating From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 07:44:33 -0500 Larry, I am generating event files to use for analyzing our noise and was wondering how WinSDR handles reducing the sample rate. Suppose we're sampling at 200 SPS (Version III board) and we want to save an event file at 1 SPS. How does WinSDR handle the decimation of the data to the lower sample rate. Does it mathematically process the data in some way or just pass along every 200th point? Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismology Web Page... From: Jan Froom JDarwin@............. Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:30:43 -0800 I apologize if this has been pointed out before... But I just came across the seismology web pages of Doctor Steve Dutch from the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay. Being only an amateur, I find Doctor Dutch's descriptions and animations quite extraordinary in helping me understand many of the principals I see discussed in this form... and also to help me explain to others the mechanics of seismology and seismometers. Check it out for yourselves.... http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/EarthSC202Notes/quakes.htm Jan in Gilroy I apologize if this has been pointed out before...
But I just came across the seismology web pages of
Doctor Steve Dutch from the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay.

Being only an amateur, I find Doctor Dutch's descriptions and animations quite extraordinary in helping
me understand many of the principals I see discussed in this form... and also to help me explain to others
the mechanics of seismology and seismometers.

Check it out for yourselves.... http://www.uwgb.edu/DutchS/EarthSC202Notes/quakes.htm

Jan in Gilroy

Subject: Re: WinSDR decimating From: Robert McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 17:29:47 -0500 Brett, I have asked Larry this question before. The data is sample-averaged. Thus, if you reduce the sample rate by a factor of 10, then 10 samples are averaged to yield the output sample. On 1/8/10, Brett Nordgren wrote: > Larry, > > I am generating event files to use for analyzing our noise and was > wondering how WinSDR handles reducing the sample rate. Suppose we're > sampling at 200 SPS (Version III board) and we want to save an event file > at 1 SPS. How does WinSDR handle the decimation of the data to the lower > sample rate. Does it mathematically process the data in some way or just > pass along every 200th point? > > Brett > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: California earthquake From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 01:03:39 +0000 Hi all, Any damage reports from the California earthquake ? Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: California earthquake From: Canie canie@........... Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 17:18:27 -0800 Doubtful since it was pretty far offshore - here=20 is a link to people reporting having felt it: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/dyfi/events/nc/71338066/us/index.html There are a couple locations saying strongly=20 felt.. no news reports of anything yet. Canie (Southern California) At 05:03 PM 1/9/2010, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Any damage reports from the California earthquake ? > >Regards, >-- >J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >http://www.jonfr.com > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: California earthquake From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 01:45:46 +0000 Hi, CNN is reporting power outages in the areas closest to the epicenter of the earthquake. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-01-09 at 17:18 -0800, Canie wrote: > Doubtful since it was pretty far offshore - here=20 > is a link to people reporting having felt it: > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/dyfi/events/nc/71338066/us/index.h= tml >=20 > There are a couple locations saying strongly=20 > felt.. no news reports of anything yet. >=20 > Canie (Southern California) >=20 > At 05:03 PM 1/9/2010, you wrote: > >Hi all, > > > >Any damage reports from the California earthquake ? > > > >Regards, > >-- > >J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > >http://www.jonfr.com > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinSDR decimating From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:54:40 -0800 Hi Brett, Bob is correct, WinSDR averages the input samples to produce the decimated output samples. Regards, Larry Cochrane Webtronics Robert McClure wrote: > Brett, I have asked Larry this question before. The data is > sample-averaged. Thus, if you reduce the sample rate by a factor of > 10, then 10 samples are averaged to yield the output sample. > > On 1/8/10, Brett Nordgren wrote: >> Larry, >> >> I am generating event files to use for analyzing our noise and was >> wondering how WinSDR handles reducing the sample rate. Suppose we're >> sampling at 200 SPS (Version III board) and we want to save an event file >> at 1 SPS. How does WinSDR handle the decimation of the data to the lower >> sample rate. Does it mathematically process the data in some way or just >> pass along every 200th point? >> >> Brett >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: California earthquake From: Canie canie@........... Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 19:41:57 -0800 Here's a pretty good article saying what's up - http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/01/a-strong-earthquake-estimated-= magnitude-65-rocked-the-eureka--calif-area-this-afternoon-snapping-power-lin= es-toppling.html I also heard there were some heart attacks - not sure how good that source= is.. Canie (Southern California) At 05:03 PM 1/9/2010, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Any damage reports from the California earthquake ? > >Regards, >-- >J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >http://www.jonfr.com > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinSDR decimating From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sat, 09 Jan 2010 22:44:32 -0500 Thanks Bob and Larry, That's what I needed to know. Brett At 06:54 PM 1/9/2010 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Brett, > >Bob is correct, WinSDR averages the input samples to produce the decimated >output samples. > >Regards, >Larry Cochrane >Webtronics > >Robert McClure wrote: >>Brett, I have asked Larry this question before. The data is >>sample-averaged. Thus, if you reduce the sample rate by a factor of >>10, then 10 samples are averaged to yield the output sample. >>On 1/8/10, Brett Nordgren wrote: >>>Larry, >>> >>>I am generating event files to use for analyzing our noise and was >>>wondering how WinSDR handles reducing the sample rate. Suppose we're >>>sampling at 200 SPS (Version III board) and we want to save an event file >>>at 1 SPS. How does WinSDR handle the decimation of the data to the lower >>>sample rate. Does it mathematically process the data in some way or just >>>pass along every 200th point? >>> >>>Brett >> >>Watch our wiggles >>http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm >> >>or watch some very very good wiggles >>http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/ANMO_24hr.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: oddball LA area quake listing From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:23:36 +1100 Hi Gang, Seasons greetings from the "land down under" just been catching up on december quake reports from the USGS site and found a report that seems to be unsubstantiated http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/neic_qpcu.html A M5.5 in the Whittier area SW of downtown LA, it must surely be incorrect specially as far as magnitude is concerned. There are no record files in Larry's database showing that any of you guys recorded the event. the felt report of MMII doesnt fit a M5.5 at 11 km depth, it would have been quite strong and damaging .... maybe it was a M2.5 ??? the mind boggles ;) Dave N Sydney Oz __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: oddball LA area quake listing From: Canie canie@........... Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 09:40:04 -0800 I found this one: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/dyfi/events/ci/14563188/us/index.html not a 5.5 - but a 2.1 within seconds of the other 5.5 - about the same location I also don't remember any 5.5 here and I would have felt it. Canie At 02:23 AM 1/11/2010, you wrote: >Hi Gang, > Seasons greetings from the "land down under" > > just been catching up on december quake reports from the USGS site >and found a report that seems to be unsubstantiated > >http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/bulletin/neic_qpcu.html > >A M5.5 in the Whittier area SW of downtown LA, it must surely be incorrect >specially as far as magnitude is concerned. There are no record >files in Larry's >database showing that any of you guys recorded the event. >the felt report of MMII doesnt fit a M5.5 at 11 km depth, it would >have been quite >strong and damaging .... maybe it was a M2.5 ??? > >the mind boggles ;) > >Dave N >Sydney >Oz > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Sensor noise / Winquake fft From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 19:03:33 -0600 Barry Lotz wrote: > > Maybe all you folks were aware of it but it just came to my attention > now. Winquake has the nice feature that , after selecting an event > file, if you select a time window with the mouse and you run a > "window" FFT you will see the FFT for that time window. Now display > both windows on the same screen one below the other. Set the button to > display the event phases. If you now use the horizontal scroll bar > you can start before the event and scroll thru the event noting how > the frequencies change as the phases arrive. I see this very useful in > selecting the filter to use in processing your data. > > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > > -- > Barry would you try putting this into different words. I tried to do it and couldn't get it to work. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: test From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:34:36 -0800 Test. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 5:04 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Sensor noise / Winquake fft Barry Lotz wrote: > > Maybe all you folks were aware of it but it just came to my attention > now. Winquake has the nice feature that , after selecting an event > file, if you select a time window with the mouse and you run a > "window" FFT you will see the FFT for that time window. Now display > both windows on the same screen one below the other. Set the button to > display the event phases. If you now use the horizontal scroll bar > you can start before the event and scroll thru the event noting how > the frequencies change as the phases arrive. I see this very useful in > selecting the filter to use in processing your data. > > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > > -- > Barry would you try putting this into different words. I tried to do it and couldn't get it to work. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Dog in video... From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:36:17 -0800 RE: Northern California Quake M6.5 Sunday, January 11, 2010 I thought this video was quite remarkable. I'm not sure if the dog is reacting to the arrival of the P-wave or something else that people have talked about for years regarding precursor animal behavior. What do you all think? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAzZIH4_X-s __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Dog in video... From: Canie canie@........... Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 18:52:28 -0800 Probably the p wave.. Canie At 06:36 PM 1/11/2010, you wrote: >RE: Northern California Quake M6.5 Sunday, January 11, 2010 > >I thought this video was quite remarkable. I'm not sure if the dog is >reacting to the arrival of the P-wave or something else that people have >talked about for years regarding precursor animal behavior. What do you all >think? > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAzZIH4_X-s > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Sensor noise / Winquake fft From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 05:53:30 -0800 (PST) Thomas Let's see. First you display an event. Then if you take the mouse and click= on some point in time during the event. Then while depressing the mouse sw= eep across to a second time you will get a blow up of the new time window. = Then click on the fft button ( the smaller one). This gives you an FFT of t= hat time window. Both windows are there, you have to hit the button that wi= ll allow both to be displayed. I then positioned both the fft and the time = window so I could see them at the same time. I put the FFt on the top (full= monitor width but half the screen height. The time window I put on the bot= tom. Because you have selected only a portion of the event time window, the= re will be a scroll bar on the bottom. The fft displays what is on the time= screen, so if you move the scroll bar in the time window you will see the = FFt for that window. Therefore if you have the phases shown in the time win= dow , when you scroll pass that point in time with the scroll bar you will see the frequency change as the phase arrives. Sort of long winde= d. Clear as mud? Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Thomas Dick wrote: From: Thomas Dick Subject: Re: Sensor noise / Winquake fft To: psn-l@.............. Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 5:03 PM Barry Lotz wrote: >=20 > Maybe all you folks were aware of it but it just came to my attention now= .. Winquake has the nice feature that , after selecting an event file, if yo= u select a time window with the mouse and you run a "window" FFT you will s= ee the FFT for that time window. Now display both windows on the same scree= n one below the other. Set the button to display the event=A0 phases. If yo= u now use the horizontal scroll bar you can start before the event and scro= ll thru the event noting how the frequencies change as the phases arrive. I= see this very useful in selecting the filter to use in processing your dat= a. >=20 > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com >=20 > --=20 Barry would you try putting this into different words. I tried to do it and= couldn't get it to work. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

Thomas
Let's see. First you display an eve= nt. Then if you take the mouse and click on some point in time during the e= vent. Then while depressing the mouse sweep across to a second time you wil= l get a blow up of the new time window. Then click on the fft button ( the = smaller one). This gives you an FFT of that time window. Both windows are t= here, you have to hit the button that will allow both to be displayed. I th= en positioned both the fft and the time window so I could see them at the s= ame time. I put the FFt on the top (full monitor width but half the screen = height. The time window I put on the bottom. Because you have selected only= a portion of the event time window, there will be a scroll bar on the bott= om. The fft displays what is on the time screen, so if you move the scroll = bar in the time window you will see the FFt for that window. Therefore if y= ou have the phases shown in the time window , when you scroll pass that point= in time with the scroll bar you will see the frequency change as the phase= arrives. Sort of long winded. Clear as mud?

Regards
Barry
http://ww= w.seismicvault.com

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Thomas Dick <= ;dickthomas01@.............> wrote:

=
From: Thomas Dick <dickthomas01@.............>
Subject: Re: Se= nsor noise / Winquake fft
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Monday, Janu= ary 11, 2010, 5:03 PM

Barry Lotz wrote:
= >
> Maybe all you folks were aware of it but it just came to my a= ttention now. Winquake has the nice feature that , after selecting an event= file, if you select a time window with the mouse and you run a "window" FFT you will see the FFT for that time window. Now display both windows on= the same screen one below the other. Set the button to display the event&n= bsp; phases. If you now use the horizontal scroll bar you can start before = the event and scroll thru the event noting how the frequencies change as th= e phases arrive. I see this very useful in selecting the filter to use in p= rocessing your data.
>
> Regards
> Barry
> http://www.seismicvault.= com
>
> --
Barry would you try putting this into diffe= rent words. I tried to do it and couldn't get it to work.
______________= ____________________________________________

Public Seismic Network = Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (fir= st line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for = more information.

Subject: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:37:15 -0800 I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community = Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles = City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first = responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA = (1993) and the training materials are available online at = http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of = them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain = this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is = what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come = PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or = non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. =20 =20 Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an = earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing = primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not = make good earthquake warning devices. =20 =20

I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the = CERT program=20 (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the = Los=20 Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be = first=20 responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by = FEMA=20 (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizenco= rps.gov/cert/index.shtm

In their training manual they discuss various = earthquake=20 myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from = anyone who=20 can explain this. Below is the material in their training = manual. My=20 questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" = that come=20 PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about = EM or non=20 seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

Myth:

Animals can = sense=20 earthquakes and give advance warning.

Fact:

Animals may be = able to=20 sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur = deep=20 within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary = waves=20 follow just seconds behind. =20 Animals do not make good earthquake warning = devices.

Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 12:36:29 -0800 This is why I sent that link yesterday showing the dog reacting dramatically before the floor (and everything else) moved violently from the M6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with camera footage, one is not always able to detect every bit of motion. So, who knows if that dog was reacting to small nearly imperceptible movement that was probably going on just prior to the obvious side to side motion that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to low frequency noises that occur in the earth's electromagnetic field just prior to an event? Don't know. There was a man in the same room with the dog and he was sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion started but by the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAzZIH4_X-s From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Kay Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices.

This is why I sent that link yesterday showing the dog = reacting dramatically before the floor (and everything else) moved violently from = the M6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with camera footage, one is not = always able to detect every bit of motion. So, who knows if that dog was = reacting to small nearly imperceptible movement that was probably going on just = prior to the obvious side to side motion that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to = low frequency noises that occur in the earth’s electromagnetic field = just prior to an event? Don’t know. There was a man in the same room = with the dog and he was sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion = started but by the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the there. =

http://www.youtube.= com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_X-s

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Kay Wyatt
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Animals and Earthquakes

I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency = Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire = Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the = training materials are available online at http://www.citizenco= rps.gov/cert/index.shtm

In = their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain = this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is = what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come = PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non = seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

Myth:

Animals can sense = earthquakes and give advance warning.

Fact:

Animals may be able to sense the first = low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the = damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals = do not make good earthquake warning devices.

Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:59:20 -0700 A comment from me on animals as sensing devices; A comment from me on the overpopulation of this abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called earth. If animals other than humans have the ability to sense things outside our normal range of senses it simply makes common sense that that they possibly will react to stimuli that outside the normal range of human senses. It is also possible for humans with damaged senses to respond to to something outside the normal human senses simply because a damaged sensor may very possibly still be working yet no longer is it sensing what it was originally designed to sense. Someone may appear "CRAZY" simply because they respond to stimuli not sensed by the average OTHER person. But in such a case I would imagine there is some kind of measurable damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal senses. The sense of hearing depends upon tiny hair cells being stimulated at given frequencies. If they are damaged ( broken to a different length ) possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady tone which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic conditions. Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived as louder or softer depending upon the state of mind. But if its Brownian motion it will be continuous. "TINNITUS???" We are very limited in our ability to sense the world around us so military and scientist invent electronic and other sensing devices to see the world like an average human can not. This is the kind of work for radar and sonar and seismology and warfare and science and entertainment. Isn't it interesting that when it boils down to science,the essence of a human is simply electro-chemical in nature in which a complicated scenario comes together to to form a soul which can only exist in the past and not in real time. Maybe tens of milliseconds in the past. I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed bugs on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils hop about excitedly when any warm animal is close and this activity can be translated into a warning making for a relatively cheap biological sensor. ( made by GOD instead of man ) Now we can get into the argument that is something like this: IF nature made man and man made whatever, THEN nature made whatever. Only that which is impossible is unnatural. The unnatural can not happen except within the combinations and permutations of electro-chemical activities within the framework of the human mind. To get back to reality ??? It does not surprise me in the least that animals are sensitive to things the human animal can not normally perceive. But they will never react before the fact, whatever they are sensing is in the past and has already happened. It is up to us to understand with our science and imagination just what the hay is going on. If there is more than three variables do not expect such understanding to be easy. STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE; I think animals will never be a very good warning devices for earthquakes since they ( unlike us )will not react before the fact. The best methods seem to be looking at the history to see the future then build for the future. You can only do so much then it becomes a matter of wasting resources to chase a dream that can never be realized. How does one measure the stresses and strains within the earth ? It is those forces that will tell you when something is about to break. But even then, not exactly when. When something does break then, shout a warning to let people get off their ladders or balcony rails before the shaking starts. Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay alive. geoff PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we shall all be suffering ) I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50 years ago. There is not enough good land/resources to support the people who are already here at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to address this one is through the compliance of the human race to voluntarily reduce their own fertility in order to maintain a decent status quo. Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human inter-relations. If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few regional disasters taking any meaningful toll of human life. Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem of overpopulation in a scientific/non-religious/objective way. They will suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon whose shoulders rides the smart dwarf (scientists). They say it would take seven earths for all to enjoy the quality of life in NORTH AMERICA alone. So must you reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so without adding to human suffering. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Wyatt" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:26:16 -0800 I can give you a few sources. As for ELF waves, there was a Stanford group studying low freq. radio waves that recorded some interesting stuff before Loma Prieta. Source: www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/91/911231Arc1006.html As for the animal behavior, see if you can find the book "When the Snakes Awake" Animals and Earthquake Prediction by Helmut Tributsch. MIT press TRIWP 0-262-70035-5. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/13603 There have been many reports of animal coming up out of the ground. For example, in Italy bugs, snakes, rats and such have been reported "out of the ground" before large earthquakes as early as 469 B.C. In Greece before the city of Helice was destroyed in 373 B.C. animals such as rats, snakes, weasels, centipedes, worms and beetles "migrated in droves along the connecting road toward the city of Koria" (Tributsch, 1943). In recent times, one of the most publicized monitoring programs was undertaken by the Chinese government in June, 1974, when the National Earthquake Bureau issued a warning following sever small events in Liaoning Province warning of a pending event within four years. 100,000 people took part in the monitoring effort that followed and when they observed snakes and other animals near Tantung with odd behaviors in December of 1974, an earthquake warning was issued and it was followed by an event. Later well water was observed to change levels and gas bubbles were seen in lakes and rivers Geese flew into trees and dogs barked. At 10A.M. on 2/4/75 the government started evacuating people from the larger town and a 7.3 struck at 7:36p.m which would have killed many had it not been for the evacuations. Some years later however another large event struck without any warning and no noticeable change in animal behavior. I tend to believe that there is a connection and you should take notice when/if your animals start to behave abnormally. You can draw your own conclusions from this brief description above but I suggest you read the suggested book. I do have some anecdotal evidence as I had a friend that lived in Sylmar in 1971 and he had two cats that lived with him in his small trailer. For two days and nights the cats flew around the inside the trailer for "no reason." The Sylmar event was early in the A.M. of the morning of the third day. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA http://pw2.netcom.com/~shammon1/psnsj.htm From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Kay Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices.

I can give you a few sources. As for ELF waves, = there was a Stanford group studying low freq. radio waves that recorded some = interesting stuff before Loma Prieta. Source: www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/91/911231Arc100= 6.html =

As for the animal behavior, see if you = can find the book “When the Snakes Awake” Animals and Earthquake = Prediction by Helmut Tributsch. MIT press TRIWP 0-262-70035-5. http://www.amaz= on.com/gp/bestsellers/books/13603

There have been many reports of animal = coming up out of the ground. For example, in Italy bugs, snakes, rats and such = have been reported “out of the ground” before large earthquakes as = early as 469 B.C. In Greece before the city of Helice was destroyed in 373 = B.C. animals such as rats, snakes, weasels, centipedes, worms and beetles = “migrated in droves along the connecting road toward the city of Koria” = (Tributsch, 1943). In recent times, one of the most publicized monitoring programs = was undertaken by the Chinese government in June, 1974, when the National Earthquake Bureau issued a warning following sever small events in = Liaoning Province warning of a pending event within four years. 100,000 people = took part in the monitoring effort that followed and when they observed snakes and = other animals near Tantung with odd behaviors in December of 1974, an earthquake warning was issued and it was followed by an event. Later = well water was observed to change levels and gas bubbles were seen in lakes and = rivers Geese flew into trees and dogs barked… At 10A.M. on 2/4/75 the = government started evacuating people from the larger town and a 7.3 struck at = 7:36p.m which would have killed many had it not been for the evacuations. Some = years later however another large event struck without any warning and no = noticeable change in animal behavior. I tend to believe that there is a connection and you = should take notice when/if your animals start to behave abnormally. You can = draw your own conclusions from this brief description above but I suggest you read = the suggested book. I do have some anecdotal evidence as I had a friend that lived in = Sylmar in 1971 and he had two cats that lived with him in his small trailer. = For two days and nights the cats flew around the inside the trailer = for “no reason.” The Sylmar event was early in the A.M. of the = morning of the third day.

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, = Aptos, CA

http://pw2.netcom.com/= ~shammon1/psnsj.htm

Their training guide.....

Myth:

Animals can sense = earthquakes and give advance warning.

Fact:

Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:40:19 -0800 That's an excellent book and I don't think there has been any other such book released since. From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Stephen Hammond Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:26 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes I can give you a few sources. As for ELF waves, there was a Stanford group studying low freq. radio waves that recorded some interesting stuff before Loma Prieta. Source: www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/91/911231Arc1006.html As for the animal behavior, see if you can find the book "When the Snakes Awake" Animals and Earthquake Prediction by Helmut Tributsch. MIT press TRIWP 0-262-70035-5. http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books/13603 There have been many reports of animal coming up out of the ground. For example, in Italy bugs, snakes, rats and such have been reported "out of the ground" before large earthquakes as early as 469 B.C. In Greece before the city of Helice was destroyed in 373 B.C. animals such as rats, snakes, weasels, centipedes, worms and beetles "migrated in droves along the connecting road toward the city of Koria" (Tributsch, 1943). In recent times, one of the most publicized monitoring programs was undertaken by the Chinese government in June, 1974, when the National Earthquake Bureau issued a warning following sever small events in Liaoning Province warning of a pending event within four years. 100,000 people took part in the monitoring effort that followed and when they observed snakes and other animals near Tantung with odd behaviors in December of 1974, an earthquake warning was issued and it was followed by an event. Later well water was observed to change levels and gas bubbles were seen in lakes and rivers Geese flew into trees and dogs barked. At 10A.M. on 2/4/75 the government started evacuating people from the larger town and a 7.3 struck at 7:36p.m which would have killed many had it not been for the evacuations. Some years later however another large event struck without any warning and no noticeable change in animal behavior. I tend to believe that there is a connection and you should take notice when/if your animals start to behave abnormally. You can draw your own conclusions from this brief description above but I suggest you read the suggested book. I do have some anecdotal evidence as I had a friend that lived in Sylmar in 1971 and he had two cats that lived with him in his small trailer. For two days and nights the cats flew around the inside the trailer for "no reason." The Sylmar event was early in the A.M. of the morning of the third day. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA http://pw2.netcom.com/~shammon1/psnsj.htm From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Kay Wyatt Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices.

That’s an excellent book and I don’t think = there has been any other such book released since…

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Stephen = Hammond
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 6:26 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes

There have been many reports of animal = coming up out of the ground. For example, in Italy bugs, snakes, rats and such = have been reported “out of the ground” before large earthquakes as = early as 469 B.C. In Greece before the city of Helice was destroyed in 373 B.C. = animals such as rats, snakes, weasels, centipedes, worms and beetles = “migrated in droves along the connecting road toward the city of Koria” = (Tributsch, 1943). In recent times, one of the most publicized monitoring programs was = undertaken by the Chinese government in June, 1974, when the National Earthquake = Bureau issued a warning following sever small events in Liaoning Province = warning of a pending event within four years. 100,000 people took part in the = monitoring effort that followed and when they observed snakes and other animals = near Tantung with odd behaviors in December of 1974, an earthquake = warning was issued and it was followed by an event. Later well water was observed to = change levels and gas bubbles were seen in lakes and rivers Geese flew into = trees and dogs barked… At 10A.M. on 2/4/75 the government started evacuating = people from the larger town and a 7.3 struck at 7:36p.m which would have killed many = had it not been for the evacuations. Some years later however another large = event struck without any warning and no noticeable change in animal behavior. = I tend to believe that there is a connection and you should take notice when/if = your animals start to behave abnormally. You can draw your own conclusions = from this brief description above but I suggest you read the suggested book. I do = have some anecdotal evidence as I had a friend that lived in Sylmar in 1971 = and he had two cats that lived with him in his small trailer. For two days and = nights the cats flew around the inside the trailer for “no = reason.” The Sylmar event was early in the A.M. of the morning of the third day. =

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, = Aptos, CA

http://pw2.netcom.com/= ~shammon1/psnsj.htm

In = their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them = perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below = is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR = to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non = seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

Myth:

Animals can sense = earthquakes and give advance warning.

Fact:

Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 18:47:59 -0800 (PST) I think there is something else going on. The location of the video had to = be very close to the epicenter to display the amount of movement. My eye sa= w that the dog moved ~ 6 sec before the visable shaking. I would think that= being that close to the epicenter there wouldn't be surface waves. The sha= king was probably the P and S waves. I am ~ 350 km from the event and I sho= wed an abrupt P arrival. I think the dog was sensing something else. Maybe = a smaller event just prior to the main event? Maybe looking on other helico= rder sites in the area would shed some light as to whether it was ground mo= tion. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com wrote: From: Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 12:36 PM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThis is why I sent that link yesterday s= howing the dog reacting=0Adramatically before the floor (and everything els= e) moved violently from the=0AM6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with= camera footage, one is not always=0Aable to detect every bit of motion. So= , who knows if that dog was reacting to=0Asmall nearly imperceptible moveme= nt that was probably going on just prior to=0Athe obvious side to side moti= on that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to low=0Afrequency noises that occu= r in the earth=E2=80=99s electromagnetic field just=0Aprior to an event? Do= n=E2=80=99t know. There was a man in the same room with the=0Adog and he wa= s sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion started=0Abut by = the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the there. =0A=0A =C2= =A0 =0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_X-s =0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A= =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Apsn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-= l-request@............... On Behalf=0AOf Kay Wyatt =0ASent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM =0ATo: psn-l@.............. =0ASubject: Animals and Earthquakes =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A= =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI'm not sure=0Ahow many of you are aware of the CE= RT program (Community Emergency Response=0ATeam) which was developed in 198= 5 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in=0A1985 to train ordinary citiz= ens to be first responders in a major=0Adisaster.=C2=A0 The program was lat= er adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training=0Amaterials are available online= at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AIn their=0Atraining manual they discuss various earthquak= e myths.=C2=A0 One of them=0Aperplexes me and I would love to hear from any= one who can explain this.=C2=A0=0ABelow is the material in their training m= anual.=C2=A0 My questions is what are=0Athe "first low frequency waves of a= n earthquake" that come PRIOR to=0Athe primary and secondary waves?=C2=A0 A= re they talking about EM or non seismic=0Awaves? =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ATheir=0Atraining guide..... =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 =0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A Myth: =0A =0A =0A Animals can sense earthqu= akes and=0A give advance warning. =0A =C2=A0 =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Fact= : =0A =0A =0A Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves= =0A of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-caus= ing=0A primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind.=C2=A0 Anima= ls do not=0A make good earthquake warning devices. =0A =C2=A0 =0A =0A = =0A=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A

I think there is something else going on. The= location of the video had to be very close to the epicenter to display the= amount of movement. My eye saw that the dog moved ~ 6 sec before the visab= le shaking. I would think that being that close to the epicenter there woul= dn't be surface waves. The shaking was probably the P and S waves. I am ~ 3= 50 km from the event and I showed an abrupt P arrival. I think the dog was = sensing something else. Maybe a smaller event just prior to the main event?= Maybe looking on other helicorder sites in the area would shed some light = as to whether it was ground motion.

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismi= cvault.com

--- On Tue, 1/12/10, Kareem Lanier from Heyjooj= oo.Com <system98765@.............> wrote:

From: Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com <system98765@he= yjoojoo.com>
Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes
To: psn-l@webtro= nics.com
Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 12:36 PM

=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A= =0A=0A
=0A=0A
This is why I sent that link yesterday showing the = dog reacting=0Adramatically before the floor (and everything else) moved vi= olently from the=0AM6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with camera foo= tage, one is not always=0Aable to detect every bit of motion. So, who knows= if that dog was reacting to=0Asmall nearly imperceptible movement that was= probably going on just prior to=0Athe obvious side to side motion that we = saw. Or was the dog reacting to low=0Afrequency noises that occur in the ea= rth=E2=80=99s electromagnetic field just=0Aprior to an event? Don=E2=80=99t= know. There was a man in the same room with the=0Adog and he was sitting i= n a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion started=0Abut by the then, t= he dog had already made a bee-line out of the there.
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_= X-s
=0A=0A

=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
From:=0Apsn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@w= ebtronics.com] On Behalf=0AOf Kay Wyatt
=0ASent: Tuesday, = January 12, 2010 11:37 AM
=0ATo: psn-l@..............
=0ASu= bject: Animals and Earthquakes
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A= =0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
I'm not sure= =0Ahow many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Respo= nse=0ATeam) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Depart= ment in=0A1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major= =0Adisaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the tra= ining=0Amaterials are available online at http://www.citize= ncorps.gov/cert/index.shtm
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
In their=0Atraining manual they discuss various earthquake myths. = One of them=0Aperplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can exp= lain this. =0ABelow is the material in their training manual. My= questions is what are=0Athe "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" t= hat come PRIOR to=0Athe primary and secondary waves? Are they talking= about EM or non seismic=0Awaves?
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
Their=0Atraining guide.....
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A = =0A =0A =0A=0A=0A

=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A =0A=0A
=0A
Myth:
=0A =0A
Animals can sen= se earthquakes and=0A give advance warning.
=0A

=0A
=0A
Fact:
=0A =0A
Animals may be able to sense the firs= t low-frequency waves=0A of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth= , but the damage-causing=0A primary and secondary waves follow just second= s behind. Animals do not=0A make good earthquake warning devices. =0A

=0A
Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:55:38 -0700 There is a new book (Nov 16, 2009) out PREDICTING THE UNPREDICTABLE; THE = TUMULTUOUS SCIENCE OF EARTHQUAKE PREDICTION by Susan Hough, Chief = Scientist, USGS, Pasadena, CA. The book is available from Amazon for = $17.96. The book is dedicated to earthquake prediction and in the book = she discusses the recorded reactions of animals and other subjects prior = to earthquakes occurring. She includes in her book several examples of = the reported actions of animals prior to earthquakes, including USGS = studies in that area. However, she also points out that when these same = animal activities were applied to other events, they were unable to = correlate the animal activities with other events. She take an in = depth look at the 1975 M 7.5 earthquake in Haicheng, China,which some = people believe was a successful earthquake prediction. The book is = worth buying and gives a great background on the many complex problems = associated with earthquake predictions which have yet to be solved. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 19:01:12 -0800 There's a lot here Geoffrey. I agree with that there are animals who can sense (hear, see, smell, feel...) things outside our normal range of senses. Since humans generally live by sight and less by anything else, then we can certainly come to the conclusion that whatever dramatic reaction we saw the animal doing before the event was surely looked different from our very own delayed reaction. That, to me, is nothing more than an animal reacting to something it senses before my species does. As humans, we could only produce a hypothesis as to what we think is going on - but something is going on. As far as the earth being overpopulated, I guess one could surmise that but by whose standard. What standard to so measure this? Because of elbow room? Wait, don't answer that. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 4:59 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes A comment from me on animals as sensing devices; A comment from me on the overpopulation of this abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called earth. If animals other than humans have the ability to sense things outside our normal range of senses it simply makes common sense that that they possibly will react to stimuli that outside the normal range of human senses. It is also possible for humans with damaged senses to respond to to something outside the normal human senses simply because a damaged sensor may very possibly still be working yet no longer is it sensing what it was originally designed to sense. Someone may appear "CRAZY" simply because they respond to stimuli not sensed by the average OTHER person. But in such a case I would imagine there is some kind of measurable damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal senses. The sense of hearing depends upon tiny hair cells being stimulated at given frequencies. If they are damaged ( broken to a different length ) possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady tone which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic conditions. Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived as louder or softer depending upon the state of mind. But if its Brownian motion it will be continuous. "TINNITUS???" We are very limited in our ability to sense the world around us so military and scientist invent electronic and other sensing devices to see the world like an average human can not. This is the kind of work for radar and sonar and seismology and warfare and science and entertainment. Isn't it interesting that when it boils down to science,the essence of a human is simply electro-chemical in nature in which a complicated scenario comes together to to form a soul which can only exist in the past and not in real time. Maybe tens of milliseconds in the past. I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed bugs on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils hop about excitedly when any warm animal is close and this activity can be translated into a warning making for a relatively cheap biological sensor. ( made by GOD instead of man ) Now we can get into the argument that is something like this: IF nature made man and man made whatever, THEN nature made whatever. Only that which is impossible is unnatural. The unnatural can not happen except within the combinations and permutations of electro-chemical activities within the framework of the human mind. To get back to reality ??? It does not surprise me in the least that animals are sensitive to things the human animal can not normally perceive. But they will never react before the fact, whatever they are sensing is in the past and has already happened. It is up to us to understand with our science and imagination just what the hay is going on. If there is more than three variables do not expect such understanding to be easy. STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE; I think animals will never be a very good warning devices for earthquakes since they ( unlike us )will not react before the fact. The best methods seem to be looking at the history to see the future then build for the future. You can only do so much then it becomes a matter of wasting resources to chase a dream that can never be realized. How does one measure the stresses and strains within the earth ? It is those forces that will tell you when something is about to break. But even then, not exactly when. When something does break then, shout a warning to let people get off their ladders or balcony rails before the shaking starts. Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay alive. geoff PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we shall all be suffering ) I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50 years ago. There is not enough good land/resources to support the people who are already here at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to address this one is through the compliance of the human race to voluntarily reduce their own fertility in order to maintain a decent status quo. Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human inter-relations. If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few regional disasters taking any meaningful toll of human life. Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem of overpopulation in a scientific/non-religious/objective way. They will suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon whose shoulders rides the smart dwarf (scientists). They say it would take seven earths for all to enjoy the quality of life in NORTH AMERICA alone. So must you reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so without adding to human suffering. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Wyatt" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes From: ahrubetz@....... Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 22:58:18 EST Geoff, Sorry, but your time-worn Malthusian redux is way over the top! Regards, Al In a message dated 1/12/2010 6:59:51 P.M. Central Standard Time, gmvoeth@........... writes: A comment from me on animals as sensing devices; A comment from me on the overpopulation of this abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called earth. If animals other than humans have the ability to sense things outside our normal range of senses it simply makes common sense that that they possibly will react to stimuli that outside the normal range of human senses. It is also possible for humans with damaged senses to respond to to something outside the normal human senses simply because a damaged sensor may very possibly still be working yet no longer is it sensing what it was originally designed to sense. Someone may appear "CRAZY" simply because they respond to stimuli not sensed by the average OTHER person. But in such a case I would imagine there is some kind of measurable damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal senses. The sense of hearing depends upon tiny hair cells being stimulated at given frequencies. If they are damaged ( broken to a different length ) possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady tone which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic conditions. Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived as louder or softer depending upon the state of mind. But if its Brownian motion it will be continuous. "TINNITUS???" We are very limited in our ability to sense the world around us so military and scientist invent electronic and other sensing devices to see the world like an average human can not. This is the kind of work for radar and sonar and seismology and warfare and science and entertainment. Isn't it interesting that when it boils down to science,the essence of a human is simply electro-chemical in nature in which a complicated scenario comes together to to form a soul which can only exist in the past and not in real time. Maybe tens of milliseconds in the past. I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed bugs on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils hop about excitedly when any warm animal is close and this activity can be translated into a warning making for a relatively cheap biological sensor. ( made by GOD instead of man ) Now we can get into the argument that is something like this: IF nature made man and man made whatever, THEN nature made whatever. Only that which is impossible is unnatural. The unnatural can not happen except within the combinations and permutations of electro-chemical activities within the framework of the human mind. To get back to reality ??? It does not surprise me in the least that animals are sensitive to things the human animal can not normally perceive. But they will never react before the fact, whatever they are sensing is in the past and has already happened. It is up to us to understand with our science and imagination just what the hay is going on. If there is more than three variables do not expect such understanding to be easy. STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE; I think animals will never be a very good warning devices for earthquakes since they ( unlike us )will not react before the fact. The best methods seem to be looking at the history to see the future then build for the future. You can only do so much then it becomes a matter of wasting resources to chase a dream that can never be realized. How does one measure the stresses and strains within the earth ? It is those forces that will tell you when something is about to break. But even then, not exactly when. When something does break then, shout a warning to let people get off their ladders or balcony rails before the shaking starts. Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay alive. geoff PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we shall all be suffering ) I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50 years ago. There is not enough good land/resources to support the people who are already here at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to address this one is through the compliance of the human race to voluntarily reduce their own fertility in order to maintain a decent status quo. Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human inter-relations. If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few regional disasters taking any meaningful toll of human life. Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem of overpopulation in a scientific/non-religious/objective way. They will suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon whose shoulders rides the smart dwarf (scientists). They say it would take seven earths for all to enjoy the quality of life in NORTH AMERICA alone. So must you reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so without adding to human suffering. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Wyatt" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37 PM Subject: Animals and Earthquakes I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. The program was later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic waves? Their training guide..... Myth: Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. Fact: Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Geoff,

Sorry, but your time-worn Malthusian redux is= =20 way over the top!

Regards,

Al

In a message dated 1/12/2010 6:59:51 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20 gmvoeth@........... writes:

A=20 comment from me on animals as sensing devices;
A comment from me on= the=20 overpopulation of this
abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called=20 earth.

If animals other than humans have the ability
to sense= things=20 outside our normal range of senses
it simply makes common sense that= that=20 they possibly
will react to stimuli that outside the normal
range= of=20 human senses.

It is also possible for humans with damaged
sens= es to=20 respond to to something outside
the normal human senses simply becaus= e
a=20 damaged sensor may very possibly still be working
yet no longer is it= =20 sensing what it was originally
designed to sense. Someone may appear= =20 "CRAZY"
simply because they respond to stimuli not
sensed by the= average=20 OTHER person. But in such a case
I would imagine there is some kind= of=20 measurable
damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal=20 senses.

The sense of hearing depends upon tiny
hair cells bein= g=20 stimulated at given frequencies.
If they are damaged ( broken to a=20 different length )
possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady= =20 tone
which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic=20 conditions.
Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived
= as=20 louder or softer depending upon the state of mind.
But if its Brownia= n=20 motion it will be continuous.
"TINNITUS???"

We are very limite= d in=20 our ability to sense the
world around us so military and=20 scientist
invent electronic and other sensing
devices to see the= world=20 like an average human can not.

This is the kind of work for radar= and=20 sonar and seismology
and warfare and science and=20 entertainment.

Isn't it interesting that when it boils
down to= =20 science,the essence of a human
is simply electro-chemical in nature= in=20 which
a complicated scenario comes together to
to form a soul whic= h can=20 only exist in the past
and not in real time. Maybe tens of millisecon= ds in=20 the
past.

I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed=20 bugs
on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils
h= op=20 about excitedly when any warm animal is close
and this activity can= be=20 translated into a warning
making for a relatively cheap biological=20 sensor.
( made by GOD instead of man )

Now we can get into the= =20 argument that is
something like this:
IF nature made man and man= made=20 whatever,
THEN nature made whatever.
Only that which is impossible= is=20 unnatural.
The unnatural can not happen except
within the combinat= ions=20 and permutations
of electro-chemical activities within
the framewo= rk of=20 the human mind.

To get back to reality ???
It does not surpris= e me=20 in the least
that animals are sensitive to things the human animal=20 can
not normally perceive. But they will never
react before the fa= ct,=20 whatever they are
sensing is in the past and has already happened.It is=20 up to us to understand with our science
and imagination just what the= hay=20 is going on.
If there is more than three variables do not expect
s= uch=20 understanding to be easy.

STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE= ;
I=20 think animals will never be a very good
warning devices for earthquak= es=20 since they
( unlike us )will not react before the fact.
The best= methods=20 seem to be looking at the history
to see the future then build for th= e=20 future.
You can only do so much then it becomes a
matter of wastin= g=20 resources to chase a dream
that can never be realized.
How does on= e=20 measure the stresses and strains
within the earth ? It is those force= s that=20 will tell
you when something is about to break.
But even then, not= =20 exactly when.
When something does break then, shout a warning
to= let=20 people get off their ladders
or balcony rails before the shaking=20 starts.
Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay=20 alive.

geoff

PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we sha= ll all=20 be suffering )
I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50= years=20 ago.
There is not enough good land/resources to support the people wh= o are=20 already here
at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to= =20 address this one
is through the compliance of the human race to volun= tarily=20 reduce their own
fertility in order to maintain a decent status=20 quo.
Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human=20 inter-relations.
If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few= =20 regional disasters
taking any meaningful toll of human=20 life.

Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem= of=20 overpopulation
in a scientific/non-religious/objective way.
They= will=20 suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon whose=20 shoulders
rides the smart dwarf (scientists).

They say it woul= d take=20 seven earths for all to enjoy the quality
of life in NORTH AMERICA al= one.=20 So must you
reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so
without= =20 adding to human suffering.

----- Original Message -----= =20
From: "Kay Wyatt" <kwyatt@.............>
To:=20 <psn-l@..............>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37=20 PM
Subject: Animals and Earthquakes

I'm not sure how= many of=20 you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) wh= ich=20 was developed in 1985 by the
Los Angeles City Fire Department in 198= 5 to=20 train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. = ; The=20 program was
later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials= are=20 available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm

I= n=20 their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One= of them=20 perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who
can explain=20 this. Below is the material in their training manual. My que= stions=20 is what are the "first low frequency waves of an
earthquake" that co= me=20 PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they talking about= EM or=20 non seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

= =20 Myth:
   Animals can sense earthquakes and gi= ve=20 advance warning.

Fact:
=20    Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves= of an=20 earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the
damage-causing= =20 primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do= not=20 make good earthquake warning=20 devices.

____________________________________________= ______________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email=20 PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first lin= e=20 only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.
Subject: Re: Animals and Earthquakes From: Dick Habegger amej@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:26:55 -0800 Hi All, I think the "Myth" of 1985 is a government cop-out. As part of the HAM "Seismic Precursor Net" in the Los Angeles area at that time, we monitored well water levels, various monitoring instruments and local newspaper "Dog & Cat Reports". This was due to Jim Berkland's > http://www.syzygyjob.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=27 investigations into the dog and cat reports. Granted, we did not prove any method for seismic activity, but since that time animals have had some very interesting behaviors before an earthquake. One of our good predictions was the Whittier earthquake. We had our net the night before and there were some changes in the readings (I cannot remember the exact measurements). So, we forewarned ourselves that an event would occur within the next 24 hours. I secured all I could, and living in Anaheim (15 to 20 miles from Whittier, I was ready. It happened within 12 hours! Jim Berkland has recently suggested that each person and animal has a magnetic node near their brain and eyes. The electrical "precursor" activity excites this node, causing a reaction; piezo electrical effect? Has strength is in the Full and New Moon phases. We are just three days away from New Moon. Again, is this a myth? I have seen that USGS has modified their stance on seismic activity and openly warned Southern California to be ready. San Bernardino County has taken this warning seriously. I am drifting away from the main discussion, however there are many reasons to discount a myth. Dick Habegger Phelan, CA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kay Wyatt" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37 PM > Subject: Animals and Earthquakes > > > > I'm not sure how many of you are aware of the CERT program (Community > Emergency Response Team) which was developed in 1985 by the > Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to train ordinary citizens to be > first responders in a major disaster. The program was > later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are available online > at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm > > In their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths. One of them > perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who > can explain this. Below is the material in their training manual. My > questions is what are the "first low frequency waves of an > earthquake" that come PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves? Are they > talking about EM or non seismic waves? > > Their training guide..... > > Myth: > Animals can sense earthquakes and give advance warning. > > > > Fact: > Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an > earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the > damage-causing primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind. > Animals do not make good earthquake warning devices. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 20:27:47 -0800 (PST) More thoughts on Mr Dog. I did a little math. If the the P wave travels at 5-8 km/sec then if we use= 7 km/sec and the dog moved ~ 6 sec before the noticeable movement (lets as= sume the P wave). This would relate to ~ 42 km. Ferndale ( as an example of= a close town) is about 37 km from the epicenter but the the hypo center is= @ a depth of 16 km. This would equal ~ 39 km travel distance. Close to 42 = km. I don't know the travel speed of electro magnet waves but I would assum= e they would be near the speed of light. I'm not sure in the earth. If one = were to assume that it was instantaneous then maybe the dog was sensing som= e sort of electro magnet waves generated by the initiation of the event. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Tue, 1/12/10, Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com wrote: From: Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com Subject: RE: Animals and Earthquakes To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, January 12, 2010, 12:36 PM =0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AThis is why I sent that link yesterday s= howing the dog reacting=0Adramatically before the floor (and everything els= e) moved violently from the=0AM6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of the time with= camera footage, one is not always=0Aable to detect every bit of motion. So= , who knows if that dog was reacting to=0Asmall nearly imperceptible moveme= nt that was probably going on just prior to=0Athe obvious side to side moti= on that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to low=0Afrequency noises that occu= r in the earth=E2=80=99s electromagnetic field just=0Aprior to an event? Do= n=E2=80=99t know. There was a man in the same room with the=0Adog and he wa= s sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion started=0Abut by = the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the there. =0A=0A =C2= =A0 =0A=0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_X-s =0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A= =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom:=0Apsn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-= l-request@............... On Behalf=0AOf Kay Wyatt =0ASent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM =0ATo: psn-l@.............. =0ASubject: Animals and Earthquakes =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A= =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AI'm not sure=0Ahow many of you are aware of the CE= RT program (Community Emergency Response=0ATeam) which was developed in 198= 5 by the Los Angeles City Fire Department in=0A1985 to train ordinary citiz= ens to be first responders in a major=0Adisaster.=C2=A0 The program was lat= er adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training=0Amaterials are available online= at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AIn their=0Atraining manual they discuss various earthquak= e myths.=C2=A0 One of them=0Aperplexes me and I would love to hear from any= one who can explain this.=C2=A0=0ABelow is the material in their training m= anual.=C2=A0 My questions is what are=0Athe "first low frequency waves of a= n earthquake" that come PRIOR to=0Athe primary and secondary waves?=C2=A0 A= re they talking about EM or non seismic=0Awaves? =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ATheir=0Atraining guide..... =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=C2=A0 =0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A Myth: =0A =0A =0A Animals can sense earthqu= akes and=0A give advance warning. =0A =C2=A0 =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A Fact= : =0A =0A =0A Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves= =0A of an earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the damage-caus= ing=0A primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind.=C2=A0 Anima= ls do not=0A make good earthquake warning devices. =0A =C2=A0 =0A =0A = =0A=0A=0A =C2=A0 =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A
More thoughts on Mr Dog.
I did a little ma= th. If the the P wave travels at 5-8 km/sec then if we use 7 km/sec and the= dog moved ~ 6 sec before the noticeable movement (lets assume the P wave).= This would relate to ~ 42 km. Ferndale ( as an example of a close town) is= about 37 km from the epicenter but the the hypo center is @ a depth of 16 = km. This would equal ~ 39 km travel distance. Close to 42 km. I don't know = the travel speed of electro magnet waves but I would assume they would be n= ear the speed of light. I'm not sure in the earth. If one were to assume th= at it was instantaneous then maybe the dog was sensing some sort of electro= magnet waves generated by the initiation of the event.

Regards
B= arry

From: Kareem = Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com <system98765@.............>
Subject: RE:= Animals and Earthquakes
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Tuesday, Janu= ary 12, 2010, 12:36 PM

=0A=0A=0A =0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A
This is why I sent that li= nk yesterday showing the dog reacting=0Adramatically before the floor (and = everything else) moved violently from the=0AM6.5 Nothern Cal Quake. Most of= the time with camera footage, one is not always=0Aable to detect every bit= of motion. So, who knows if that dog was reacting to=0Asmall nearly imperc= eptible movement that was probably going on just prior to=0Athe obvious sid= e to side motion that we saw. Or was the dog reacting to low=0Afrequency no= ises that occur in the earth=E2=80=99s electromagnetic field just=0Aprior t= o an event? Don=E2=80=99t know. There was a man in the same room with the= =0Adog and he was sitting in a chair. He reacted just as the floor motion s= tarted=0Abut by the then, the dog had already made a bee-line out of the th= ere.
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
http://www.you= tube.com/watch?v=3DaAzZIH4_X-s
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
<= /p> =0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
= From:=0Apsn-l-request@............ com [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf=0AOf Kay Wyatt=0ASent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 11:37 AM
=0ATo: psn-l= @..............
=0ASubject: Animals and Earthquakes
= =0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A
I'm not sure=0Ahow many of you are aware of the CERT program = (Community Emergency Response=0ATeam) which was developed in 1985 by the Lo= s Angeles City Fire Department in=0A1985 to train ordinary citizens to be f= irst responders in a major=0Adisaster. The program was later adopted = by FEMA (1993) and the training=0Amaterials are available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm
=0A=0A=
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A=0A=
=0A=0A
In their=0Atraining manual they discuss vario= us earthquake myths. One of them=0Aperplexes me and I would love to h= ear from anyone who can explain this. =0ABelow is the material in thei= r training manual. My questions is what are=0Athe "first low frequenc= y waves of an earthquake" that come PRIOR to=0Athe primary and secondary wa= ves? Are they talking about EM or non seismic=0Awaves?
=0A= =0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A= =0A
=0A=0A
Their=0Atraining guide.....
=0A= =0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A
=0A= =0A
=0A=0A=0A =0A= =0A =0A =0A =0A =0A
= Fact:
=0A =0A =0A
=0A
Myt= h:
=0A =0A
Animals can sense earthquakes and=0A give advance warning.
= =0A

=0A
=0A
Animals may b= e able to sense the first low-frequency waves=0A of an earthquake that occ= ur deep within the Earth, but the damage-causing=0A primary and secondary = waves follow just seconds behind. Animals do not=0A make good earthq= uake warning devices.
=0A

=0A =0A
=0A=0A

=0A= =0A
=0A=0A
=0A=0A =0A=0A
Subject: Haiti aftershock pattern From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 04:37:02 +0000 Hi all, I have been checking the aftershock pattern of the Haiti earthquakes and I am seeing clues to a other strong earthquake in that area. It might come from a new fault, or from the current fault that did break yesterday. I am exespecting a earthquake of magnitude Mw6.0 - Mw6.9, but no larger than that. This area has been dormant for a long time, so there is a lot of tension in the fault lines nearby to the epicenter of the Mw7.2 earthquake. I expect the earthquake to happen within five days or so. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Animal warning From: "Randy Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 08:11:40 -0600 Hi All, I remember when I lived in Alaska and became introduced to earthquakes. = Several of us would talk about how we never seemed to be awakened by a = quake. It seemed we always would wake up and then the shaking would = begin. I don't recall any such feeling for awake time quakes but while = sleeping there seemed to be something early enough to feel awake first. = It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a quake but clearly awake = enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone else experienced = something like that? I've always attibuted it to the P wave. It would = have been fun to have a seismograph back then to correlate timing.=20 Randy
Hi All,

I remember when I lived in Alaska and = became=20 introduced to earthquakes.  Several of us would talk about how = we=20 never seemed to be awakened by a quake. It seemed we always would = wake up=20 and then the shaking would begin. I don't recall any such feeling = for=20 awake time quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something early = enough=20 to feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a = quake=20 but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone=20 else experienced something like that? I've always = attibuted it=20 to the P wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back = then to=20 correlate timing.

Randy
Subject: Request for Contact From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:09:25 -0600 Roger Sparks Ellensburg, WA....Please contact me privately at gpayton@............. . I suspect it was you that did the "Inverse Filtering" on my Haiti JPZ posting. (I could be wrong.) I am VERY new to all this and not familiar with this process and would love learn more about the How's and Why's. Thank you, Gerald (Jerry) Payton
Roger Sparks Ellensburg, WA....Please contact me = privately=20 at gpayton@.............=20 ..

I suspect it was you that did the "Inverse Filtering" on my = Haiti JPZ=20 posting. (I could be wrong.) I am VERY new to all = this and=20 not familiar with this process and would love learn more about the How's = and=20 Why's.

Thank you,

Gerald (Jerry) Payton
Subject: Re: Animal warning From: Canie canie@........... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:20:53 -0800 That happened to me back in the day - it was the 1971 Sylmar, CA Quake - I lived in Dana Point - woke up just before it struck - (and I am not a morning person!) -

Unfortunately - there are so few large quakes it's difficult to have any hypotheses tested with any type of frequency.. or maybe I should say fortunately..

Canie

At 06:11 AM 1/13/2010, you wrote:

Hi All,

I remember when I lived in Alaska and became introduced to earthquakes. Several of us would talk about how we never seemed to be awakened by a quake. It seemed we always would wake up and then the shaking would begin. I don't recall any such feeling for awake time quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something early enough to feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a quake but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone else experienced something like that? I've always attibuted it to the P wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back then to correlate timing.

Randy
Subject: Re: Animal warning From: "JD Cooley" jdcooley@....... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:36:28 -0800 This happens to me also. I was born and raised in Southern California = and have spent most of my 65 years here in SoCal. I often (with a large = quake felt where I live) wake up and wonder why I woke up all of a = sudden. After a few seconds the shaking begins! JD Cooley San Marcos, CA K6LKW ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Randy Pratt=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:11 AM Subject: Animal warning Hi All, I remember when I lived in Alaska and became introduced to = earthquakes. Several of us would talk about how we never seemed to be = awakened by a quake. It seemed we always would wake up and then the = shaking would begin. I don't recall any such feeling for awake time = quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something early enough to = feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a quake = but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone else = experienced something like that? I've always attibuted it to the P = wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back then to = correlate timing.=20 Randy
This happens to me also. I = was born=20 and raised in Southern California and have spent most of my 65 years = here in=20 SoCal. I often (with a large quake felt where I live) wake up and = wonder=20 why I woke up all of a sudden. After a few seconds the shaking=20 begins!

JD Cooley

San Marcos, CA

K6LKW

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Randy=20 Pratt

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Wednesday, January 13, = 2010 6:11=20 AM

Subject: Animal warning

Hi All,

I remember when I lived in Alaska and = became=20 introduced to earthquakes.  Several of us would talk about = how we=20 never seemed to be awakened by a quake. It seemed we always = would wake=20 up and then the shaking would begin. I don't recall any such = feeling for=20 awake time quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something = early enough=20 to feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes = a quake=20 but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone = else experienced something like that? I've always = attibuted it=20 to the P wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back = then to=20 correlate timing.

Randy

Subject: Re: Animal warning From: Kevin Brunt k.brunt@......... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:44:52 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) The way this discussion is going, we're going to get an outbreak of amateur seismologists connecting themselves up to electroencephalographs, so that they can correlate the interruption of sleep witn the seismic record. :) On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:36:28 -0800 JD Cooley wrote: > This happens to me also. I was born and raised in Southern California and > have spent most of my 65 years here in SoCal. I often (with a large quake > felt where I live) wake up and wonder why I woke up all of a sudden. After a > few seconds the shaking begins! > > JD Cooley > San Marcos, CA > K6LKW > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Randy Pratt > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 6:11 AM > Subject: Animal warning > > > Hi All, > > I remember when I lived in Alaska and became introduced to earthquakes. Several of us would talk about how we never seemed to be awakened by a quake. It seemed we always would wake up and then the shaking would begin. I don't recall any such feeling for awake time quakes but while sleeping there seemed to be something early enough to feel awake first. It wasn't a special feeling like here comes a quake but clearly awake enough to be aware of waking first. Has anyone else experienced something like that? I've always attibuted it to the P wave. It would have been fun to have a seismograph back then to correlate timing. > > Randy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Va. well reacts to Haiti quake From: rg richg_1998@......... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 09:50:18 -0800 (PST) http://weblogs.marylandweather.com/2010/01/va_well_reacts_to_haiti_quake.html Rich __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Animal warning From: Canie canie@........... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:04:43 -0800 Unfortunately, there's just not enough time between the waking up and the shaking to do anything! LOL! Part of it is wondering 'now why did I wake up?' - then the answer comes.. too late now! Canie At 09:44 AM 1/13/2010, you wrote: >The way this discussion is going, we're going to get an outbreak of amateur >seismologists connecting themselves up to electroencephalographs, so >that they >can correlate the interruption of sleep witn the seismic record. :) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Animal warning From: Kevin Brunt k.brunt@......... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 18:24:43 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Ah, but what you do is to routinely connect yourself up to the EEG every night, in the same way that the seismic sensors are being recorded continually. Then when the quake hits, you can see from the change in the EEG record when you woke up. Obviously, this needs a modicum of support in WinQuake and the PSN event file format. On Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:04:43 -0800 Canie wrote: > Unfortunately, there's just not enough time between the waking up and > the shaking to do anything! LOL! Part of it is wondering 'now why > did I wake up?' - then the answer comes.. too late now! > > Canie > > At 09:44 AM 1/13/2010, you wrote: > > >The way this discussion is going, we're going to get an outbreak of amateur > >seismologists connecting themselves up to electroencephalographs, so > >that they > >can correlate the interruption of sleep witn the seismic record. :) > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Interesting Article From: "JD Cooley" jdcooley@....... Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:36:50 -0800 Here is an interesting and informative news article about the Haiti = earthquake. http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100113/wl_time/08599195328400 JD=20

Here is an interesting and = informative news=20 article about the Haiti earthquake.

htt= p://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100113/wl_time/08599195328400

Subject: Earthquakes in unlikely places. From: "JD Cooley" jdcooley@....... Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 06:10:58 -0800 Earthquakes in unlikely places (Newsweek). http://photo.newsweek.com/2010/1/haitian-and-other-earthquakes-in-unlikel= y-places.html JD

Earthquakes in unlikely places=20 (Newsweek).

http://photo.newsweek.com/2010/1/haitian-and-other= -earthquakes-in-unlikely-places.html

Subject: RE: Earthquakes in unlikely places. From: "Kareem Lanier from Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:37:31 -0800 Interesting in article. I suppose that means that transform plate boundaries (as well as divergent and convergent) are everywhere? Because megaquakes occur in one or all of these areas and not just anywhere, right? For instance, I moved from the bay area to the Elk Grove area which is about ten miles from Sacramento, California. I don't know of any mapped faults that run through Sacramento. I know of many that are lying under the surrounding mountains in addition to some blind faults but it seems that I am a bit removed from any direct blow of an earthquake. From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of JD Cooley Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:11 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Earthquakes in unlikely places. Earthquakes in unlikely places (Newsweek). http://photo.newsweek.com/2010/1/haitian-and-other-earthquakes-in-unlikely-p laces.html JD

Interesting in article.

I suppose that means that transform plate boundaries (as = well as divergent and convergent) are everywhere? Because megaquakes occur in = one or all of these areas and not just anywhere, right?

For instance, I moved from the bay area to the Elk Grove = area which is about ten miles from Sacramento, California. I don’t know = of any mapped faults that run through Sacramento. I know of many that are lying = under the surrounding mountains in addition to some blind faults but it seems = that I am a bit removed from any direct blow of an earthquake. =

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of JD Cooley
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 6:11 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Earthquakes in unlikely places.

Earthquakes in unlikely places (Newsweek).

http://photo.newsweek.com/2010/1/haitian-and-other= -earthquakes-in-unlikely-places.html

Subject: NY TIMES From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:46:01 +0000 ARTICLE IN THE NY TIMES Expecting the Big One=20 !By SIMON WINCHESTER Published: January 14, 2010=20 THOUGH it can offer scant comfort to the victims of the earthquake in = Haiti, seismology is making some slight progress in its search for the = holy grail of being able to predict dreadful events like that on = Tuesday. New studies into ultra-slow-motion events deep underground = called nonvolcanic tremors are showing vague but promising signs that = the same kind of subterranean danger signals that allow us today to = forecast when a volcano is about to erupt may one day offer some warning = of the hitherto unpredictable nucleation - the explosive beginning - of = an earthquake.=20 Times Topics: EarthquakesThe most interesting studies are those that are = proceeding, slowly and expensively, in Parkfield, Calif. (as it happens, = just a little north of the road crossing where James Dean was killed in = a traffic accident nearly 55 years ago). A deep hole has been drilled = into the countryside there, directly into the San Andreas fault, which = runs for 800 miles along the junction between the North American and = Pacific tectonic plates.=20 The academic and government researchers who run the drilling program = seek to find out what happens at the precise point of contact between = two plates. It now appears highly likely that the very low impact, but = still measurable, nonvolcanic tremors that the researchers have detected = in boreholes deep beneath the San Andreas are in some way associated = with the destructive earthquakes that occur at shallower depths above = them. What the scientists would still like to determine is whether it = might be possible to discern a nonvolcanic tremor's signature in the = deep crust some useful time before a major earthquake happens far above. = This is highly relevant to the disaster in Haiti because the = Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault, the tectonic culprit behind Tuesday's = earthquake, shares many similarities with the San Andreas: it is a = strike-slip fault of about half the length (it runs from the Dominican = Republic to Jamaica), it separates two plates (the North American and = the Caribbean), for most of its length it is simultaneously locked solid = and under severe stress, and it shears substantially every century or = so. (The last time was in 1907, in Jamaica; scientists have long warned = of a catastrophe - one day - involving Port-au-Prince.)=20 It is highly likely that the low-impact, nonvolcanic tremors measured in = the San Andreas happen in the Caribbean also. If a real correlation = between these tremors and earthquakes can be found, then science will = turn out to be truly on to something. Such a relationship has not yet = been discovered. But the tremors do seem to have some unusual bellwether = characteristics: there seems to be a correlation, for instance, between = their occurrence and such external phenomena as the tides and the phases = of the Moon. A link to movements within the Earth's crust is at least a = further possibility - and that is something that could not have been = said five years ago. Hence the faintest glimmer of hope for progress. But then what? If the geophysicists at the University of California at = Berkeley, the United States Geological Survey, the California Institute = of Technology and the Scripps Research Institute are convinced of a = correlation, and then one day detect with their deeply buried devices a = sudden swarm of nonvolcanic tremors, would they call the mayor of San = Francisco or Los Angeles and issue a warning? And would the mayors then = order a mass evacuation? And if they did, what if the scientists turned = out to be wrong?=20 These are questions well worth asking - and asking even more stridently = of a place that is somewhat less sophisticated than California. If a = similar swarm of data is noticed in the Enriquillo-Plantain Garden = fault, would geologists try to warn the citizens of a city like = Port-au-Prince? And even if the forecasts were right, would such a = warning save lives, or would it set off panics more lethal than the = earthquake itself? The branch of seismology that deals with prediction is undoubtedly in a = slightly better place than it was half a decade ago. But new questions = arise with every step toward the grail, and the answers come too slowly = to bring true comfort to anyone today, least of all the unfortunate = people of Haiti. Simon Winchester is the author of "A Crack in the Edge of the World: = America and the Great California Earthquake of 1906" and the forthcoming = "Atlantic: A Biography of the Ocean."=20

ARTICLE IN THE NY TIMES

Expecting the Big One

!By SIMON WINCHESTER

Published: January 14, 2010

THOUGH it can offer scant comfort to the victims of the earthquake in = Haiti,=20 seismology is making some slight progress in its search for the holy = grail of=20 being able to predict dreadful events like that on Tuesday. New studies = into=20 ultra-slow-motion events deep underground called nonvolcanic tremors are = showing=20 vague but promising signs that the same kind of subterranean danger = signals that=20 allow us today to forecast when a volcano is about to erupt may one day = offer=20 some warning of the hitherto unpredictable nucleation =97 the explosive = beginning=20 =97 of an earthquake.

Times Topics: EarthquakesThe most interesting studies are those that = are=20 proceeding, slowly and expensively, in Parkfield, Calif. (as it happens, = just a=20 little north of the road crossing where James Dean was killed in a = traffic=20 accident nearly 55 years ago). A deep hole has been drilled into the = countryside=20 there, directly into the San Andreas fault, which runs for 800 miles = along the=20 junction between the North American and Pacific tectonic plates.

The academic and government researchers who run the drilling program = seek to=20 find out what happens at the precise point of contact between two = plates. It now=20 appears highly likely that the very low impact, but still measurable,=20 nonvolcanic tremors that the researchers have detected in boreholes deep = beneath=20 the San Andreas are in some way associated with the destructive = earthquakes that=20 occur at shallower depths above them. What the scientists would still = like to=20 determine is whether it might be possible to discern a nonvolcanic = tremor=92s=20 signature in the deep crust some useful time before a major earthquake = happens=20 far above.

This is highly relevant to the disaster in Haiti because the=20 Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault, the tectonic culprit behind = Tuesday=92s=20 earthquake, shares many similarities with the San Andreas: it is a = strike-slip=20 fault of about half the length (it runs from the Dominican Republic to = Jamaica),=20 it separates two plates (the North American and the Caribbean), for most = of its=20 length it is simultaneously locked solid and under severe stress, and it = shears=20 substantially every century or so. (The last time was in 1907, in = Jamaica;=20 scientists have long warned of a catastrophe =97 one day =97 involving=20 Port-au-Prince.)

It is highly likely that the low-impact, nonvolcanic tremors measured = in the=20 San Andreas happen in the Caribbean also. If a real correlation between = these=20 tremors and earthquakes can be found, then science will turn out to be = truly on=20 to something. Such a relationship has not yet been discovered. But the = tremors=20 do seem to have some unusual bellwether characteristics: there seems to = be a=20 correlation, for instance, between their occurrence and such external = phenomena=20 as the tides and the phases of the Moon. A link to movements within the = Earth=92s=20 crust is at least a further possibility =97 and that is something that = could not=20 have been said five years ago. Hence the faintest glimmer of hope for=20 progress.

But then what? If the geophysicists at the University of California = at=20 Berkeley, the United States Geological Survey, the California Institute = of=20 Technology and the Scripps Research Institute are convinced of a = correlation,=20 and then one day detect with their deeply buried devices a sudden swarm = of=20 nonvolcanic tremors, would they call the mayor of San Francisco or Los = Angeles=20 and issue a warning? And would the mayors then order a mass evacuation? = And if=20 they did, what if the scientists turned out to be wrong?

These are questions well worth asking =97 and asking even more = stridently of a=20 place that is somewhat less sophisticated than California. If a similar = swarm of=20 data is noticed in the Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault, would = geologists try to=20 warn the citizens of a city like Port-au-Prince? And even if the = forecasts were=20 right, would such a warning save lives, or would it set off panics more = lethal=20 than the earthquake itself?

The branch of seismology that deals with prediction is undoubtedly in = a=20 slightly better place than it was half a decade ago. But new questions = arise=20 with every step toward the grail, and the answers come too slowly to = bring true=20 comfort to anyone today, least of all the unfortunate people of = Haiti.

Simon Winchester is the author of "A Crack in the Edge of the World: = America=20 and the Great California Earthquake of 1906" and the forthcoming = "Atlantic: A=20 Biography of the Ocean."

Subject: Re: NY TIMES From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 05:35:23 -0800 (PST) Simon Winchester also wrote "Krakatoa" which I'm reading now with enjoyment= . Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Fri, 1/15/10, Edward Ianni wrote: From: Edward Ianni Subject: NY TIMES To: psn-l@.............. Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 1:46 AM =0A=0A =0A =0A=0AARTICLE IN THE NY TIMES=0A=C2=A0=0A=0AExpecting the Big On= e =0A!By SIMON WINCHESTER=0APublished: January 14, 2010 =0ATHOUGH it can of= fer scant comfort to the victims of the earthquake in Haiti, =0Aseismology = is making some slight progress in its search for the holy grail of =0Abeing= able to predict dreadful events like that on Tuesday. New studies into =0A= ultra-slow-motion events deep underground called nonvolcanic tremors are sh= owing =0Avague but promising signs that the same kind of subterranean dange= r signals that =0Aallow us today to forecast when a volcano is about to eru= pt may one day offer =0Asome warning of the hitherto unpredictable nucleati= on =E2=80=94 the explosive beginning =0A=E2=80=94 of an earthquake. =0ATime= s Topics: EarthquakesThe most interesting studies are those that are =0Apro= ceeding, slowly and expensively, in Parkfield, Calif. (as it happens, just = a =0Alittle north of the road crossing where James Dean was killed in a tra= ffic =0Aaccident nearly 55 years ago). A deep hole has been drilled into th= e countryside =0Athere, directly into the San Andreas fault, which runs for= 800 miles along the =0Ajunction between the North American and Pacific tec= tonic plates. =0AThe academic and government researchers who run the drilli= ng program seek to =0Afind out what happens at the precise point of contact= between two plates. It now =0Aappears highly likely that the very low impa= ct, but still measurable, =0Anonvolcanic tremors that the researchers have = detected in boreholes deep beneath =0Athe San Andreas are in some way assoc= iated with the destructive earthquakes that =0Aoccur at shallower depths ab= ove them. What the scientists would still like to =0Adetermine is whether i= t might be possible to discern a nonvolcanic tremor=E2=80=99s =0Asignature = in the deep crust some useful time before a major earthquake happens =0Afar= above. =0AThis is highly relevant to the disaster in Haiti because the =0A= Enriquillo-Plantain Garden fault, the tectonic culprit behind Tuesday=E2=80= =99s =0Aearthquake, shares many similarities with the San Andreas: it is a = strike-slip =0Afault of about half the length (it runs from the Dominican R= epublic to Jamaica), =0Ait separates two plates (the North American and the= Caribbean), for most of its =0Alength it is simultaneously locked solid an= d under severe stress, and it shears =0Asubstantially every century or so. = (The last time was in 1907, in Jamaica; =0Ascientists have long warned of a= catastrophe =E2=80=94 one day =E2=80=94 involving =0APort-au-Prince.) =0AI= t is highly likely that the low-impact, nonvolcanic tremors measured in the= =0ASan Andreas happen in the Caribbean also. If a real correlation between= these =0Atremors and earthquakes can be found, then science will turn out = to be truly on =0Ato something. Such a relationship has not yet been discov= ered. But the tremors =0Ado seem to have some unusual bellwether characteri= stics: there seems to be a =0Acorrelation, for instance, between their occu= rrence and such external phenomena =0Aas the tides and the phases of the Mo= on. A link to movements within the Earth=E2=80=99s =0Acrust is at least a f= urther possibility =E2=80=94 and that is something that could not =0Ahave b= een said five years ago. Hence the faintest glimmer of hope for =0Aprogress= ..=0ABut then what? If the geophysicists at the University of California at = =0ABerkeley, the United States Geological Survey, the California Institute = of =0ATechnology and the Scripps Research Institute are convinced of a corr= elation, =0Aand then one day detect with their deeply buried devices a sudd= en swarm of =0Anonvolcanic tremors, would they call the mayor of San Franci= sco or Los Angeles =0Aand issue a warning? And would the mayors then order = a mass evacuation? And if =0Athey did, what if the scientists turned out to= be wrong? =0AThese are questions well worth asking =E2=80=94 and asking ev= en more stridently of a =0Aplace that is somewhat less sophisticated than C= alifornia. If a similar swarm of =0Adata is noticed in the Enriquillo-Plant= ain Garden fault, would geologists try to =0Awarn the citizens of a city li= ke Port-au-Prince? And even if the forecasts were =0Aright, would such a wa= rning save lives, or would it set off panics more lethal =0Athan the earthq= uake itself?=0AThe branch of seismology that deals with prediction is undou= btedly in a =0Aslightly better place than it was half a decade ago. But new= questions arise =0Awith every step toward the grail, and the answers come = too slowly to bring true =0Acomfort to anyone today, least of all the unfor= tunate people of Haiti.=0ASimon Winchester is the author of "A Crack in the= Edge of the World: America =0Aand the Great California Earthquake of 1906"= and the forthcoming "Atlantic: A =0ABiography of the Ocean." =0A=C2=A0

Simon Winchester also = wrote "Krakatoa" which I'm reading now with enjoyment.
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

--- On Fri, 1/1= 5/10, Edward Ianni <edwianni1@...........> wrote:

From: Edward Ianni <edwianni1@...........>Subject: NY TIMES
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Friday, January 15,= 2010, 1:46 AM

=0A=0A =0A =0A

Good Morning to All:

I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ )= about=20 their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I found = the reply=20 quite interesting and informative. I thought that I would share it = with=20 everyone. some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3.

In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, = but may=20 be "PayPal" and simply a typo.

Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the = popular=20 Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it = necessary to=20 pass on this to the PSN Group.

Best Regards,

Jerry

Gerald,

Thanks for your email. In answer to = your=20 questions:

We will be implementing a Paypay = facility in the=20 next few weeks and will advise you when it is live. This should make = payment=20 much easier for you!

The HS-3 electronics are integral to = the unit, i.e.=20 inside the basebar and specifically designed by us for our = capacitance=20 sensor. Both the detector and microprocessor are TOTALLY digital, as is = the=20 feedback system that provides the additional ground tilt/earth tide = signal.=20 Hence, there are no analog signals involved whatsoever, and it is simply = not=20 possible to interface the sensor with third party electronics, nor = provide an=20 analog output. The HS-3 transmits digital velocity and digital ground = tilt=20 (24bit and 16 bit respectively) via RS232. One of the key reasons in = deciding=20 upon an intrinsically digital process was to eliminate the signal drift = that is=20 a feature of many analog systems.

We chose AmaSeis as the data logging = program since=20 this appears to be the most widely used package in the US and elsewhere, = for=20 example with hundreds installed in north American schools. However, we = are aware=20 that many people like to develop their own processing and plotting = applications,=20 and with this in mind the command protocol for the instrument is fully=20 published, with software examples, so that you can craft your own code = if you=20 want. This could be in Visual Basic, Liberty Basic, Python, C or BBC = Basic, as=20 per the examples on the user CD.

Regards,

Mark Noel

Professor M J Noel

Rockwave & GeoQuest = Associates

Rockside

Ballajora

Maughold

Isle of Man

British Isles

IM7 1BL

Tel: +44 (01) 1624 819364

Email: enquiries@.............. or rockside@........

Web: www.rockwave.co.uk

Original Message -----

From:=20 GPayton=20

To: enquiries@.............. =

Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 = 5:30=20 PM

Subject: HS-3 Questions

Gentlemen:

1) Were you ever able acquire credit = card=20 availability?

2) In a discussion here in the US, it = was pointed=20 out that while your HS-3 was VERY interesting, many of the = amateur=20 seismology enthusiasts here have electronics bought from Larry Cochran = or=20 their own. They also use different software packages too. = These=20 factors prohibit serious thought about buying the HS-3.

Is there now or possibly could be a separate analog = output for=20 use by these systems?

Thank you,

Gerald Payton

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: chrisatupw@....... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:04:15 EST In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes: I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( _http://www.rockwave.co.uk/_ (http://www.rockwave.co.uk/) ) about their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. Hi Gerry, I think that it is Paypal. Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional amplifier! Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes:

I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( http://www.rockwave.c= o.uk/ ) about=20 their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I found=20 the reply quite interesting and informative. Some of you may= be=20 thinking about buying the HS-3.

In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that,= but=20 may be "PayPal" and simply a typo.

Hi Gerry,

I think that it is Paypal.

Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the= popular=20 Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it necess= ary to=20 pass on this to the PSN Group.

The detection and compensation systems on the= HS-3=20 are PURELY DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to mea= sure=20 the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional=20 amplifier!

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 09:09:10 -0500 Jerry, From what I can tell, the HS-3 acts as if it has an internal A/D, so no amplifiers or external electronics are required. Its data feeds directly to the computer. The problem is having data acquisition software like WinSDR work with it. Rockwave appear to have written their own driver program to work with AmaSeis. The biggest problem making such software may not be the reading of the data, but would be related to providing the instrument-unique commands to send to it to set it up and make it work. Although it is true that they can use feedback to compensate for static ground tilt, it is also likely that it will respond to the rate of change of tilt, which may be almost as bad. Nice looking instrument. Brett At 07:24 AM 1/19/2010 -0600, you wrote: > >Good Morning to All: > >I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( >http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 >Sensor and received the following reply. I found the reply quite >interesting and informative. I thought that I would share it with >everyone. some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. > >In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but may be >"PayPal" and simply a typo. > >Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the popular >Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it necessary to >pass on this to the PSN Group. > >Best Regards, >Jerry > >---------- > Watch our wiggles http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm or watch some very very good wiggles http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/ANMO_24hr.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:12:59 -0600 Thank you Chris, I suspected that it might be PayPal and that is GOOD. Yes, everything is digital; thus not compatible with Larry's box which a great number of us own. And, you are committed to AmaSeis too. You can output a PSN type file from AmaSeis, but isn't my "cup of tea." Thanks again, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: chrisatupw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes: I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. Hi Gerry, I think that it is Paypal. Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional amplifier! Regards, Chris Chapman

Thank you = Chris,

I suspected that it might = be PayPal and=20 that is GOOD. Yes, everything is digital; thus not compatible with = Larry's=20 box which a great number of us own. And, you are committed to = AmaSeis=20 too. You can output a PSN type file from AmaSeis, but isn't my = "cup of=20 tea."

Thanks again,

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 chrisatupw@.......

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 = 8:04=20 AM

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3=20 Information

In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. = writes:

I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ )= =20 about their HS-3 Sensor and received the following reply. I = found=20 the reply quite interesting and informative. Some of you = may be=20 thinking about buying the HS-3.

In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with = that, but=20 may be "PayPal" and simply a typo.

Hi Gerry,

I think that it is Paypal.

Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to = the=20 popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still = feel it=20 necessary to pass on this to the PSN = Group.

The detection and compensation systems on = the=20 HS-3 are PURELY DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative = sensor to=20 measure the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an = additional=20 amplifier!

Regards,

Chris=20 Chapman

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:17:00 +0000 I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any information about price. Can anyone point me to the info? Thanks Ian chrisatupw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes: > > I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( > http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 Sensor and received > the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and > informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. > > In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but > may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. > > Hi Gerry, > > I think that it is Paypal. > > Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the > popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel > it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. > > The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY > DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure > the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional > amplifier! > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 08:30:18 -0600 Boy, I had to search too. Go to the CONTACT page and down at the bottom it says: "The HS-3 is priced at �310.00 (Sterling), inclusive of the software and accessories described on this website. The cost of shipment will depend on your location. Please contact us to obtain a quotation" ----- Original Message ----- From: ian To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:17 AM Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any information about price. Can anyone point me to the info? Thanks Ian chrisatupw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. writes: > > I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( > http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 Sensor and received > the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and > informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. > > In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with that, but > may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. > > Hi Gerry, > > I think that it is Paypal. > > Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted to the > popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still feel > it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. > > The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY > DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure > the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional > amplifier! > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Boy, I had to search too. Go to the CONTACT page and down at = the=20 bottom it says: "The HS-3 is priced at =A3310.00 (Sterling), inclusive = of the=20 software and accessories described on this website. The cost of shipment = will=20 depend on your location. Please contact us to obtain a quotation"

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 ian =

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2010 = 8:17=20 AM

Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3=20 Information

I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't = find any=20 information
about price.

Can anyone point me to the=20 info?

Thanks

Ian

chrisatupw@....... = wrote:
> In a=20 message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@.............=20 writes:
>
>     I sent an email to = Rockwave in=20 the UK (
>     http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) = about their=20 HS-3 Sensor and received
>     the following = reply. I found the reply quite interesting=20 and
>     informative. Some of you may be = thinking=20 about buying the HS-3.
>     =20
>     In the reply, he says "Paypay." = I am=20 not familiar with that, but
>     may be = "PayPal"=20 and simply a typo.
>
> Hi Gerry,
> =20
>     I think that it is=20 Paypal.
>
>     Personally, I am = disappointed=20 in that it cannot be adapted to the
>     = popular=20 Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still=20 feel
>     it necessary to pass on this to = the PSN=20 Group.
>
>     The detection and = compensation=20 systems on the HS-3 are PURELY
> DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used = with a=20 capacitative sensor to measure
> the position and movement of = the mass.=20 You DON'T NEED an additional
> amplifier!
> =20
>     Regards,
> =20
>     Chris=20 = Chapman
__________________________________________________________
=
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Earthquake Warning From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:47:54 +0000 Hi all, There is a chance of a strong earthquake near Cayman Islands. A earthquake of size mb5.6 has shown him self, and this looks like a pre-earthquake to a bigger earthquake in the area. When it might come depends a lot on local dynamics. Size of the earthquake to come is in the range of Mw 6.0 to 7.5 at best guess. But this area has a history of Mw8.0 earthquakes in that fault zone. But not nessary on the current fault line. EMSC info on the earthquake, http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D152055 Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:29:33 +0000 Hi, thanks for tracking that down. Cheers Ian GPayton wrote: > Boy, I had to search too. Go to the CONTACT page and down at the > bottom it says: "The HS-3 is priced at �310.00 (Sterling), inclusive > of the software and accessories described on this website. The cost of > shipment will depend on your location. Please contact us to obtain a > quotation" > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* ian > *To:* psn-l@.............. > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 19, 2010 8:17 AM > *Subject:* Re: Rockware HS-3 Information > > I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any > information > about price. > > Can anyone point me to the info? > > Thanks > > Ian > > chrisatupw@....... wrote: > > In a message dated 19/01/2010, gpayton@............. > writes: > > > > I sent an email to Rockwave in the UK ( > > http://www.rockwave.co.uk/ ) about their HS-3 Sensor and > received > > the following reply. I found the reply quite interesting and > > informative. Some of you may be thinking about buying the HS-3. > > > > In the reply, he says "Paypay." I am not familiar with > that, but > > may be "PayPal" and simply a typo. > > > > Hi Gerry, > > > > I think that it is Paypal. > > > > Personally, I am disappointed in that it cannot be adapted > to the > > popular Larry Cochrane AD-Amp electronics. However, I still > feel > > it necessary to pass on this to the PSN Group. > > > > The detection and compensation systems on the HS-3 are PURELY > > DIGITAL. A 24 bit ADC is used with a capacitative sensor to measure > > the position and movement of the mass. You DON'T NEED an additional > > amplifier! > > > > Regards, > > > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. > with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earthquake Warning From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:34:03 +0000 Hi all, Here is a artical on this subject. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2010/0113/The-geology-underlying-th= e-devastating-Haiti-earthquake Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Rockware HS-3 Information From: chrisatupw@....... Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2010 11:14:37 EST =20 In a message dated 19/01/2010, ian@........... writes: I've just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any information= =20 about price. Hi Ian, =20 See _http://www.rockwave.co.uk/contact/_=20 (http://www.rockwave.co.uk/contact/) Cost =3D =A3310 + pp =A3310 =3D US $508 =20 Regards, =20 Chris Chapman <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>

In a message dated 19/01/2010, ian@........... writes:

I've=20 just had a look around the HS-3 site but can't find any information
= about=20 price.

Hi Ian,

See http://www.rockwave.co.uk/contact/ Cost=20 =3D =A3310 + pp

=A3310 =3D US $508

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Testing From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:21:52 -0800 (PST) I=A0 haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site = down? Pete=20 San Jose =0A=0A=0A
=0A=0A Subject: Re: Testing From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:12:25 -0700 Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. Bob Hancock Tucson, AZ On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: > I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the = site down? > Pete=20 > San Jose >=20

Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010.

Bob Hancock

Tucson, AZ

On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote:

I haven't received a single psn posting= in about two weeks. Is the site down?
Pete
San Jose

I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site down?
Pete
San Jose

Subject: Re: Testing From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:06:21 -0800 (PST) Thanks, Bob. I was beginning to think I may have goofed something up and ha= d fallen off the list. I guess no one has anything to say. Pete --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Bob Hancock wrote: From: Bob Hancock Subject: Re: Testing To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 8:12 PM Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. Bob HancockTucson, AZ On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: I=A0 haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site = down? Pete=20 San Jose =0A=0A =20 =0A=0A=0A

Thanks, Bob. I was beginning to think I may h= ave goofed something up and had fallen off the list. I guess no one has any= thing to say.
Pete

--- On Tue, 1/26/10, Bob Hancock <icarus@.........> wrote:

Fr= om: Bob Hancock <icarus@.........>
Subject: Re: Testing
To: psn= -l@..............
Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 8:12 PM

Pete - The last message I received was January 19,= 2010.

Bob Hancock
Tucson, AZ
=

On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote:
=
I haven't received a s= ingle psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site down?
Pete
San Jos= e

=0A=0A

=0A=0A=0A=0A Subject: Re: Testing From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:49:15 -0700 howdy psn; Maybe everyone is playing borderlands the game is so long it takes forever to play, or is it just because Im a 50 year old kid ?? Not as fast as i used to be :-) I have a backlog of files to process myself. missed the haiti quake due to the fact my clock was not calibrated on time so i went offline until i could do that. i understand it needs to be synchronized with wwv every 24 hours. i think its good for 48 hrs since i calibrated the 12MHz clock fairly well but still i listen to what people want with the time. dont know what everyone else is doing but statistics say there should occassionally be quiet times just like noisy ones. im no professional. only do this for a hobby. still, i try to insure my gram time readings are correct before posting them. Mr. President is making a TV appearance soon today, maybe he may tell us why no one is here. geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Rowe" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:06 PM Subject: Re: Testing Thanks, Bob. I was beginning to think I may have goofed something up and had fallen off the list. I guess no one has anything to say. Pete --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Bob Hancock wrote: From: Bob Hancock Subject: Re: Testing To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 8:12 PM Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. Bob HancockTucson, AZ On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site down? Pete San Jose __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Testing From: jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 02:20:04 -0000 (UTC) Hi, I did post a notification on a volcano called Eyjafjallaj�kull and Hekla. But Eyjafjallaj�kull has been coming with many earthquakes this past weeks since the new year. However nobody did answer those emails of mine. I am also dealing with a big backlog of earthquakes to plot, about thee months worth of files. That is about ~2000 files I think. Regards, J�n Fr�mann. > > howdy psn; > > Maybe everyone is playing borderlands > the game is so long it takes > forever to play, or is it just because > Im a 50 year old kid ?? > Not as fast as i used to be :-) > I have a backlog of files to process myself. > missed the haiti quake due to the fact > my clock was not calibrated on time > so i went offline until i could do that. > i understand it needs to be synchronized > with wwv every 24 hours. > i think its good for 48 hrs since i calibrated the > 12MHz clock fairly well but still i listen > to what people want with the time. > dont know what everyone else is doing > but statistics say there should occassionally > be quiet times just like noisy ones. > im no professional. only do this for a hobby. > still, i try to insure my gram time readings are correct > before posting them. > Mr. President is making a TV appearance soon today, > maybe he may tell us why no one is here. > > geoff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Rowe" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 10:06 PM > Subject: Re: Testing > > > Thanks, Bob. I was beginning to think I may have goofed something up and > had fallen off the list. I guess no one has anything to > say. > Pete > > > > --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Bob Hancock wrote: > > From: Bob Hancock > Subject: Re: Testing > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 8:12 PM > > Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. > Bob HancockTucson, AZ > > On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: > I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. Is the site > down? > Pete > San Jose > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Testing From: "herman boon" herman.boon@......... Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 17:07:06 +0100 HELLO PSN same problems here on my site. Boon Herman . Belgium. greetings ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Bob Hancock=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 5:12 AM Subject: Re: Testing Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010. Bob Hancock Tucson, AZ On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote: I haven't received a single psn posting in about two weeks. = Is the site down? Pete=20 San Jose =20

HELLO PSN

same problems here on my = site.

Boon Herman .

Belgium.

greetings

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Bob = Hancock=20

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Wednesday, January 27, = 2010 5:12=20 AM

Subject: Re: Testing

Pete - The last message I received was January 19, 2010.

Bob Hancock

Tucson, AZ

On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:21 PM, Pete Rowe wrote:

I haven't received a single psn posting = in about=20 two weeks. Is the site down?
Pete
San=20 = Jose

Subject: From: Robert McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 15:09:36 -0500 I think everything is working OK, just not many messages. The archive for this year's messages is: http://www.seismicnet.com/psnlist/index10.html Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 10:07:47 -0700 Hello Chris; Are you able to provide us with a mag/coil design with three wires specifically designed to work with a differential amplifier. This would mean a center tapped coil with two wire each one going to + and - and the third wire going to neutral ground ? ( balanced input ? ) I am only interested in the sensor and not the associated electronics. The only way I know is two identical coils joined in an additive way putting the join point at ground. But, I understand there is an impedance difference between plus and minus inputs into the op amp and this may be needed to be considered in the design of the sensor itself ? I think of your design which uses several small magnets and a rectangular coil. Some three wire version of that for a vertical sensor. Thanks, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 18:02:47 EST In a message dated 03/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: Are you able to provide us with a mag/coil design with three wires specifically designed to work with a differential amplifier. This would mean a center tapped coil with two wire each one going to + and - and the third wire going to neutral ground ? Hi Geoff, Sure, but is there any problem in doing this? The ordinary single channel opamp with 4 resistors to give a 'differential' opamp circuit normally has a single 'floating' coil eg LT1007. The feedback maintains the same voltage on both the +ve and -ve inputs, so the coil drives a resistance of 2 x Rin + Rcoil. With high efficiency NdFeB magnet blocks, this low impedance can significantly damp the mass and can even damp it beyond critical. The input impedance relative to analogue ground is different for the two inputs. If you use a true differential input opamp, like the INA118, the input impedances to both inputs are very high both relative to one another and to analogue ground. You need to use two reels of wire to wind one coil. It is an advantage if you can arrange for the two wires to be twisted together. Alternatively, you can buy dual core insulated wires. The centre of the coil is earthed. You can't separate the coil design from the amplifier circuit design. I hope that this helps. Regards, Chris

In a message dated 03/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:

Are you=20 able to provide us with a mag/coil design with three wires specifically= =20 designed to work
with a differential amplifier.
This would mean a= center=20 tapped coil with two wire each one going to + and - and the third=20 wire
going to neutral ground ?

Hi Geoff,

Sure, but is there any problem in doing this?=

The ordinary single channel opamp with 4 resi= stors=20 to give a 'differential' opamp circuit normally has a single 'floating' co= il eg=20 LT1007. The feedback maintains the same voltage on both the +ve and -ve in= puts,=20 so the coil drives a resistance of 2 x Rin + Rcoil. With high efficie= ncy=20 NdFeB magnet blocks, this low impedance can significantly damp the ma= ss and=20 can even damp it beyond critical. The input impedance relative to analogue= =20 ground is different for the two inputs.

If you use a true differential input opamp,= like=20 the INA118, the input impedances to both inputs are very high both relativ= e to=20 one another and to analogue ground. You need to use two reels of wire to= wind=20 one coil. It is an advantage if you can arrange for the two wires to be tw= isted=20 together. Alternatively, you can buy dual core insulated wires. The= centre=20 of the coil is earthed.

You can't separate the coil design from the= =20 amplifier circuit design.

I hope that this helps.

Regards,

Chris

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:02:56 -0700 Hello Chris, electro mechanical Sensor only and not the associated electronics. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2010 4:02 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > > In a message dated 03/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: > > Are you able to provide us with a mag/coil design with three wires > specifically designed to work > with a differential amplifier. > This would mean a center tapped coil with two wire each one going to + and > - and the third wire > going to neutral ground ? > > > > Hi Geoff, > > Sure, but is there any problem in doing this? > > The ordinary single channel opamp with 4 resistors to give a > 'differential' opamp circuit normally has a single 'floating' coil eg LT1007. The > feedback maintains the same voltage on both the +ve and -ve inputs, so the > coil drives a resistance of 2 x Rin + Rcoil. With high efficiency NdFeB > magnet blocks, this low impedance can significantly damp the mass and can even > damp it beyond critical. The input impedance relative to analogue ground is > different for the two inputs. > > If you use a true differential input opamp, like the INA118, the input > impedances to both inputs are very high both relative to one another and > to analogue ground. You need to use two reels of wire to wind one coil. It > is an advantage if you can arrange for the two wires to be twisted together. > Alternatively, you can buy dual core insulated wires. The centre of the > coil is earthed. > > You can't separate the coil design from the amplifier circuit design. > > I hope that this helps. > > Regards, > > Chris > What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor +.......| C O Gnd.....| I L -.......| CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil magnet assemblies. Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. This arrangement is the what i believe to be the only proper one for MY application. I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to begin. I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own interest. Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density material you can afford. The electronics is moot since I know what I want to do there. Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as i know. At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive fashion connected to the same mass. Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would quadruple it. Ideally you use these things in sets of two and only one is what I call halfassed. I am only interested in vertical sensors. Thanks for your responses. geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:26:32 EST In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor +.......| C O Gnd.....| I L -.......| CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil magnet assemblies. Hi Geoff, You can wind it quite easily using two supply reels winding on both wires at the same time. Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. The ordinary single opamp with four resistors will allow you to wind a single coil and use an amplifier of that type. I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to begin. I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own interest. Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density material you can afford. That is not neccessary or desirable. Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as I know. There is none and unlikely to be any in the future. At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive fashion connected to the same mass. Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would quadruple it. You usually do better by doubling the number of turns on a coil. A large increase in the output can be readily achieved by using thicker NdFeB magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The limit is set by diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets. Copper wire varies in it's magnetic properties. If you use a true differential amplifier like the INA118 with a double wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil resistance is not so important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil. Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:

What i=20 mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor

+.......|
= =20 C
O
Gnd.....|
= =20 I
L
-.......|

CO= part=20 and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can wind such= a=20 thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil magnet=20 assemblies.

Hi Geoff,

You can wind it quite easily using two supply= reels=20 winding on both wires at the same time.

Forget=20 the amplifier part altogether, use what you want.

The ordinary single opamp with four resistors= will=20 allow you to wind a single coil and use an amplifier of that type.

I have=20 never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to begin.
=
I=20 do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is paramou= nt for=20 any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own interest.

Eas= iest=20 way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two ton (av= d.)=20 mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density material you= can=20 afford.

That is not neccessary or desirable.

Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none= at room temp as far as I=20 know.

There is none and unlikely to be any in the= =20 future.

At the=20 moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive fashion= =20 connected to the same mass.
Two coils should double the signal right= from=20 the start. Four would quadruple it.

You usually do better by doubling the number= of=20 turns on a coil. A large increase in the output can be readily achieved by= using=20 thicker NdFeB magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The li= mit is=20 set by diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets.= Copper=20 wire varies in it's magnetic properties.

If you use a true differential amplifier like= the=20 INA118 with a double wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil=20 resistance is not so important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil= ..=20

Regards,

Chris=20 Chapman

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 21:20:38 -0700 Hello Chris, I have in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired magnet wire which was designed to be used with expendable bathythermograph probes. ( make a temp profile of the ocean waters ) I have never seen such wire available to anything but government. have you ever seen such wire in any guage at all ? Maybe its not even copper If I know Govt it might be silver wire but i think it looked copper. Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot spool ? I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a center tapped sensor coil ? regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:26 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: > > What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor > > +.......| > C > O > Gnd.....| > I > L > -.......| > > CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can > wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil magnet > assemblies. > Hi Geoff, > > You can wind it quite easily using two supply reels winding on both > wires at the same time. > > Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. > The ordinary single opamp with four resistors will allow you to wind a > single coil and use an amplifier of that type. > > I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to begin. > > I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is > paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own interest. > > Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two > ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density > material you can afford. > That is not neccessary or desirable. > > Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as I know. > There is none and unlikely to be any in the future. > > At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive > fashion connected to the same mass. > Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would > quadruple it. > > > You usually do better by doubling the number of turns on a coil. A large > increase in the output can be readily achieved by using thicker NdFeB > magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The limit is set by > diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets. Copper wire > varies in it's magnetic properties. > If you use a true differential amplifier like the INA118 with a double > wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil resistance is not so > important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:43:17 -0700 Hi Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool of 40ga copper magnet wire, approx 1lb. This is not "paired" wire. It is a single strand of coated, magnet wire. This is very very fine wire. I have not used it to wrap a coil, but I think I could if I was careful. Obviously it can break easily. I do believe this is was purchased at a Army Navy surplus store. Happy to share this wire, I will never use it all. I am not sure how share it, but I am open to suggestions. One method would be to send me a empty spool, and instruct me as to how many wrap to apply to it? On a different subject............for those interested.........The vertical, wall mounted sensor, I call the "Vertical Mount, Garden gate, Horizontal Seismic Sensor" VGHS, which is mostly like a Lehman, but mounts to the wall, using a single vertical mechanism, is operating perfectly. I have not adjusted it in several months, and it is recording very well. I have it set to 22 seconds. I have a .pdf file to share. Cheers, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey" To: Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > Hello Chris, > > I have in the past ( like 1970s ) > seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired > magnet wire which was designed > to be used with expendable > bathythermograph probes. > ( make a temp profile of the ocean waters ) > > I have never seen such wire > available to anything but > government. > > have you ever seen such wire in any > guage at all ? > > Maybe its not even copper > If I know Govt it might be silver wire > but i think it looked copper. > > Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire > which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot > spool ? > > I would think this be the right kind of wire > to make a center tapped sensor coil ? > > regards, > geoff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:26 PM > Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > > >> In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: >> >> What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor >> >> +.......| >> C >> O >> Gnd.....| >> I >> L >> -.......| >> >> CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can >> wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil >> magnet assemblies. >> Hi Geoff, >> >> You can wind it quite easily using two supply reels winding on both >> wires at the same time. >> >> Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. >> The ordinary single opamp with four resistors will allow you to wind >> a single coil and use an amplifier of that type. >> >> I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to >> begin. >> >> I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is >> paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own >> interest. >> >> Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two >> ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density >> material you can afford. >> That is not neccessary or desirable. >> >> Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as I >> know. >> There is none and unlikely to be any in the future. >> >> At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive >> fashion connected to the same mass. >> Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would >> quadruple it. >> >> >> You usually do better by doubling the number of turns on a coil. A large >> increase in the output can be readily achieved by using thicker NdFeB >> magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The limit is set >> by diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets. >> Copper wire varies in it's magnetic properties. >> If you use a true differential amplifier like the INA118 with a >> double wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil resistance is >> not so important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil. Regards, >> >> Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:52:25 EST In a message dated 16/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: I have in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired magnet wire which was designed to be used with expendable bathythermograph probes. I have never seen such wire available to anything but government. Hi Geoff, Go to _www.wires.co.uk_ (http://www.wires.co.uk) , select Copper wire from the left column list and then Bonded Bifilar Wire. 30 AWG is 0.010" dia. 32SWG is 0.0092" dia This is really to thick for winding sensor coils in my opinion. See _http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html_ (http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html) Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot spool ? I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a center tapped sensor coil ? I would just use two reels of copper wire. Cut open an old aerosol spray can and extract the 6" of small diameter plastic tube. Cut ~3" off this and feed both wires through it. Use it to guide both wires onto your coil former as you wind it. I am quite happy winding coils of 38 to 40 AWG wire. It is easy to handle and it does not break very easily. If you try to use 1 or 2 thou wire, it does get a bit difficult to handle. If you buy wire with polyurethane insulation, you can solder it directly with a hot iron - the insulation just melts. You may need to search for a suitable source in the USA. _http://www.alliedelec.com/_ (http://www.alliedelec.com/) stock 36 AWG Beldsol Magnet wire in 1/2 lb reels. Hi Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool of 40ga copper magnet wire, approx 1lb. Ted, could you wind off 1 oz reels of fine wire? This should be enough to wind a sensor coil. Regards, Chris Chapman

In a message dated 16/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:

I have=20 in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired magn= et=20 wire which was designed to be used with expendable bathythermograph=20 probes.
I have never seen such wire available to anything but=20 government.

Hi Geoff,

Go to www= ..wires.co.uk, select Copper wire from the=20 left column list and then Bonded Bifilar Wire.

30 AWG is 0.010" dia. 32SWG is 0.0092" dia

This is really to thick for winding sensor co= ils in=20 my opinion.

See http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html<= /DIV>

Lets say=20 twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot spool= =20 ?

I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a center= tapped=20 sensor coil ?

I would just use two reels of copper wire. Cu= t open=20 an old aerosol spray can and extract the 6" of small diameter plastic tube= .. Cut=20 ~3" off this and feed both wires through it. Use it to guide both wires on= to=20 your coil former as you wind it.

I am quite happy winding coils of 38 to 40 AW= G=20 wire. It is easy to handle and it does not break very easily. If you try= to use=20 1 or 2 thou wire, it does get a bit difficult to handle.

If you buy wire with polyurethane insulation,= you=20 can solder it directly with a hot iron - the insulation just melts.

You may need to search for a suita= ble source=20 in the USA.

http:= //www.alliedelec.com/ stock 36=20 AWG Beldsol Magnet wire in 1/2 lb reels.

Hi=20 Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making= =20 standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool= of 40ga=20 copper magnet wire, approx 1lb.

Ted, could you wind off 1 oz reels= of fine=20 wire? This should be enough to wind a sensor coil.

Regards,

Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 07:46:39 -0700 Hi Chris and All, Yes I think I can wind off 1 oz reels. I found it = impossible to get any copper wire thin enough locally. You pointed out = it is avail on the internet. Again, for those interest in building a = sensor, and have not found the fine copper wire necessary, email me and = I will try to help. =20 Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 6:52 AM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - = Wire In a message dated 16/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: I have in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage = paired magnet wire which was designed to be used with expendable = bathythermograph probes. I have never seen such wire available to anything but government. Hi Geoff, Go to www.wires.co.uk, select Copper wire from the left column = list and then Bonded Bifilar Wire. 30 AWG is 0.010" dia. 32SWG is 0.0092" dia=20 This is really to thick for winding sensor coils in my opinion. See http://www.dave-cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or = more foot spool ? I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a center tapped = sensor coil ? I would just use two reels of copper wire. Cut open an old aerosol = spray can and extract the 6" of small diameter plastic tube. Cut ~3" off = this and feed both wires through it. Use it to guide both wires onto = your coil former as you wind it. I am quite happy winding coils of 38 to 40 AWG wire. It is easy to = handle and it does not break very easily. If you try to use 1 or 2 thou = wire, it does get a bit difficult to handle. If you buy wire with polyurethane insulation, you can solder it = directly with a hot iron - the insulation just melts. You may need to search for a suitable source in the USA.=20 http://www.alliedelec.com/ stock 36 AWG Beldsol Magnet wire in 1/2 = lb reels. Hi Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making = standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool of 40ga = copper magnet wire, approx 1lb. Ted, could you wind off 1 oz reels of fine wire? This should be = enough to wind a sensor coil. Regards, Chris Chapman

Hi Chris and All, Yes I think I can wind off 1 oz=20 reels. I found it impossible to get any copper wire thin = enough=20 locally. You pointed out it is avail on the internet. = Again,=20 for those interest in building a sensor, and have not found the fine = copper wire=20 necessary, email me and I will try to help.

Ted

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Tuesday, February 16, = 2010 6:52=20 AM

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor = Designed=20 Specifiically for diff input - Wire

In a message dated 16/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... = writes:

I have=20 in the past ( like 1970s ) seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired = magnet=20 wire which was designed to be used with expendable bathythermograph=20 probes.
I have never seen such wire available to anything but=20 government.

Hi Geoff,

Go to www.wires.co.uk, select Copper = wire from the=20 left column list and then Bonded Bifilar Wire.

30 AWG is 0.010" dia. 32SWG is 0.0092" = dia

This is really to thick for winding = sensor coils=20 in my opinion.

See http://www.dave= -cushman.net/elect/wiregauge.html

Lets=20 say twin 30 gauge copper wire which is enameled on a 1000 or more = foot spool=20 ?

I would think this be the right kind of wire to make a = center=20 tapped sensor coil ?

I would just use two reels of copper = wire. Cut=20 open an old aerosol spray can and extract the 6" of small diameter = plastic=20 tube. Cut ~3" off this and feed both wires through it. Use it to guide = both=20 wires onto your coil former as you wind it.

I am quite happy winding coils of 38 to = 40 AWG=20 wire. It is easy to handle and it does not break very easily. If you = try to=20 use 1 or 2 thou wire, it does get a bit difficult to handle.

If you buy wire with polyurethane = insulation, you=20 can solder it directly with a hot iron - the insulation just = melts.

You may need to search for a = suitable=20 source in the USA.

http://www.alliedelec.com/ s= tock 36=20 AWG Beldsol Magnet wire in 1/2 lb reels.

Hi=20 Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for = making=20 standard magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a = spool of=20 40ga copper magnet wire, approx 1lb.

Ted, could you wind off 1 oz = reels of fine=20 wire? This should be enough to wind a sensor coil.

Regards,

Chris=20 Chapman

Subject: For your information From: "Jim and Connie Lehman" lehmancj@........... Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:18:17 -0500 PSN Friends--Greetings from snowy Virginia. For your information, = expecially those folks in California and surrounding states--here is an = online 1 hz vertical readout you can compare your readouts with. The = amateur seismologist is Randy Fear, and he works at Big Bear Solar = Observatory and lives in Lucerne Valley where his seismic instrument is = located. Randy was a student at James Madison University 35 years ago, = and helped me develop the J.M.U. long period /Lehman/ sensor at that = time. Randy built an identical system, and we ran them at rt angles for = several months with very interesting comparisons. Randy's readout can be accessed at www.kc6jtn.net. Keep up the good work--Jim

PSN Friends--Greetings from snowy = Virginia. For your=20 information, expecially those folks in California and surrounding = states--here=20 is an online 1 hz vertical readout you can compare your readouts=20 with. The amateur seismologist is Randy Fear, and he works at Big = Bear=20 Solar Observatory and lives in Lucerne Valley where his seismic = instrument is=20 located. Randy was a student at James Madison University 35 years = ago, and=20 helped me develop the J.M.U. long period /Lehman/ sensor at that = time. =20 Randy built an identical system, and we ran them at rt angles for = several months=20 with very interesting comparisons.

Randy's readout can be accessed at = www.kc6jtn.net.

Keep up the good = work--Jim

Subject: Somebody Explain, Please From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:03:55 -0600 With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " event; they also issued an "additional information" about a "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map." My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??" Jerry

With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER = LOS=20 ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA 2010 February 17 05:04:54 = UTC " event; they also issued an "additional information" about a = "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map."

My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??"

Jerry

Subject: Re: Somebody Explain, Please From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 17:34:36 -0700 It is my understanding that for each and every EQ there exists the chance for after shocks. In most cases those aftershocks are smaller. But in rare cases the quake in question may be a Foreshock for a bigger aftershock. Possibly it is a nebulous or vague warning. Since lots of people are near LA and Like Riverside/ San Bernardino area is a major stress point that has been building for quite awhile. Unless I was rich like Mr. Gates, I would not want to live in the High Risk Eq areas. or Tornado areas or near the coast of any ocean or big lake. Or... major national defense related industry :-) Did any of you hear about the hiker that fell into St mount Helens Crater ? He ,supposedly, fell over 1000ft ?? Possibly a Geologist ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: "PSN Network List" Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Somebody Explain, Please > With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA > 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " event; they also issued an "additional > information" about a "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map." > > My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??" > > Jerry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Somebody Explain, Please From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:00:24 -0600 Thanks, I just didn't understand a "aftershock warning" for such a small event and wondered if they were referring to some other. I don't think he was a geologist: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/17/bohlig.profile/index.html Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Geoffrey To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 6:34 PM Subject: Re: Somebody Explain, Please It is my understanding that for each and every EQ there exists the chance for after shocks. In most cases those aftershocks are smaller. But in rare cases the quake in question may be a Foreshock for a bigger aftershock. Possibly it is a nebulous or vague warning. Since lots of people are near LA and Like Riverside/ San Bernardino area is a major stress point that has been building for quite awhile. Unless I was rich like Mr. Gates, I would not want to live in the High Risk Eq areas. or Tornado areas or near the coast of any ocean or big lake. Or... major national defense related industry :-) Did any of you hear about the hiker that fell into St mount Helens Crater ? He ,supposedly, fell over 1000ft ?? Possibly a Geologist ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: "PSN Network List" Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Somebody Explain, Please > With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA > 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " event; they also issued an "additional > information" about a "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map." > > My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??" > > Jerry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Thanks, I just didn't understand a "aftershock warning" for = such a=20 small event and wondered if they were referring to some other.

I don't think he was a geologist: http:= //www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/17/bohlig.profile/index.html

Jerry

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Geoffrey=20

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Wednesday, February 17, = 2010 6:34=20 PM

Subject: Re: Somebody Explain,=20 Please

It is my understanding that for
each and every EQ = there=20 exists the
chance for after shocks.
In most cases those = aftershocks are=20 smaller.
But in rare cases the quake in question may be
a = Foreshock for=20 a bigger aftershock.
Possibly it is a nebulous or vague = warning.
Since=20 lots of people are near LA and
Like Riverside/ San Bernardino area = is a=20 major stress point
that has been building for quite = awhile.
Unless I was=20 rich like Mr. Gates, I would not
want to live in the High Risk Eq=20 areas.
or Tornado areas or near the coast
of any ocean or big=20 lake.
Or... major national defense related industry :-)

Did = any of=20 you hear about the hiker that fell
into St mount Helens Crater = ?
He=20 ,supposedly, fell over 1000ft ??
Possibly a Geologist=20 ??

----- Original Message -----
From: "GPayton" = <gpayton@.............>
To= : "PSN=20 Network List" <PSN-L@..............>
Sent= :=20 Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:03 AM
Subject: Somebody Explain,=20 Please

> With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - = GREATER=20 LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIFORNIA
> 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " = event;=20 they also issued an "additional
> information" about a "24-hour = Aftershock Forecast Map."
>
> My question: "Aftershock = from=20 WHAT??"
>
> Jerry=20 =
>
__________________________________________________________
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Somebody Explain, Please From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2010 04:52:35 +0000 Hi all, In 2008 there was a Mw6.3 earthquake in Iceland. That earthquake had a pre-earthquake of ML3.4 in size (in a swarm of earthquake, that one was the biggest). So this is warning from USGS has it's reasons. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On mi=F0, 2010-02-17 at 17:34 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > It is my understanding that for > each and every EQ there exists the > chance for after shocks. > In most cases those aftershocks are smaller. > But in rare cases the quake in question may be > a Foreshock for a bigger aftershock. > Possibly it is a nebulous or vague warning. > Since lots of people are near LA and > Like Riverside/ San Bernardino area is a major stress point > that has been building for quite awhile. > Unless I was rich like Mr. Gates, I would not > want to live in the High Risk Eq areas. > or Tornado areas or near the coast > of any ocean or big lake. > Or... major national defense related industry :-) >=20 > Did any of you hear about the hiker that fell > into St mount Helens Crater ? > He ,supposedly, fell over 1000ft ?? > Possibly a Geologist ?? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "GPayton" > To: "PSN Network List" > Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2010 8:03 AM > Subject: Somebody Explain, Please >=20 >=20 > > With USGS posting of " Magnitude 3.2 - GREATER LOS ANGELES AREA, CALIF= ORNIA=20 > > 2010 February 17 05:04:54 UTC " event; they also issued an "additional=20 > > information" about a "24-hour Aftershock Forecast Map." > >=20 > > My question: "Aftershock from WHAT??" > >=20 > > Jerry=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 06:56:16 -0700 Hello Mr. Channel, Would you be willing to share your plans with me for a 5 or 10 second device instead of a 22 second device ? I am interested in possibly building such a thing but do not have the ability/monies to design it or test a prototype. I may not be able to afford it but I need to see it to know. You can send me the plans in an email at gmvoeth at hotmail.com or point me to a web or ftp site or possibly post on a common alt binary news group. ( Anarchist, Lunatics and, Terrorists :-/ ) {not kidding---That's what they call the alt news groups} If you are willing to build and sell only the sensor ( not the electronics ) I might be interested but first I must understand this device. I am no expert, yet , like to build kits like the old Heath kit stuff of the past. It must be only vertical in its detection of motion either displacement or velocity. It must produce a signal level being no less than 3Volts per inch per second. at one hertz frequency into ,like , 10K ohms of load. It must have a magnetic damping system separate from the sensor itself. It must have a free period of 5 seconds with a Q of 1/SQR(2) which might be slightly different with minimum damping. It must be relatively insensitive to temperature changes. I have tried playing with various sensors like hall effect but have found them too temperature sensitive. Coil and magnet are just fine. If I were like B. Gates Id hire a real MIT physics major to design a proper device and a real Mechanical engineer to build it. But alas...I'm no such creature. If the device had three fixed calibrated settings one for 10 seconds and one for 5 seconds and one for 1Hz. that's a nice feature also. I have no need for more than 10 seconds of free period at the sensor. Since I am only interested in P and S waves. It would be required for me to build two identical devices to use this in the right way. Or there's no sense in pursuing this further. These specs are my own interests independent of other people. I have no interest in capitalizing on this, its only a hobby for myself. I figure if you have successfully built a 22 second vertical device then what I want is easier to build. If I could find a decent bathroom scale Id simply set it up and put 5 gallons of water on it and look at the output with a 16 bit A/D converter. Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Channel" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 5:43 AM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > Hi Folks, In the past I have used 38ga copper wire for making standard > magnet coils. I have a friend who gave me a spool of 40ga copper magnet > wire, approx 1lb. > This is not "paired" wire. It is a single strand of coated, magnet wire. > This is very very fine wire. I have not used it to wrap a coil, but I > think I could if I was careful. Obviously it can break easily. I do > believe this is was purchased at a Army Navy surplus store. > > Happy to share this wire, I will never use it all. I am not sure how > share it, but I am open to suggestions. One method would be to send me a > empty spool, and instruct me as to how many wrap to apply to it? > > On a different subject............for those interested.........The vertical, > wall mounted sensor, I call the "Vertical Mount, Garden gate, Horizontal > Seismic Sensor" VGHS, which is mostly like a Lehman, but mounts to the > wall, using a single vertical mechanism, is operating perfectly. I have > not adjusted it in several months, and it is recording very well. I have > it set to 22 seconds. > I have a .pdf file to share. > > Cheers, > Ted > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoffrey" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2010 9:20 PM > Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input > > >> Hello Chris, >> >> I have in the past ( like 1970s ) >> seen wire that is "like" 40 guage paired >> magnet wire which was designed >> to be used with expendable >> bathythermograph probes. >> ( make a temp profile of the ocean waters ) >> >> I have never seen such wire >> available to anything but >> government. >> >> have you ever seen such wire in any >> guage at all ? >> >> Maybe its not even copper >> If I know Govt it might be silver wire >> but i think it looked copper. >> >> Lets say twin 30 gauge copper wire >> which is enameled on a 1000 or more foot >> spool ? >> >> I would think this be the right kind of wire >> to make a center tapped sensor coil ? >> >> regards, >> geoff >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 4:26 PM >> Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input >> >> >>> In a message dated 06/02/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: >>> >>> What i mean is a coil like a center tapped inductor >>> >>> +.......| >>> C >>> O >>> Gnd.....| >>> I >>> L >>> -.......| >>> >>> CO part and the IL part have to be identical. I do not know if you can >>> wind such a thing all at once or need two identical yet seperate coil >>> magnet assemblies. >>> Hi Geoff, >>> >>> You can wind it quite easily using two supply reels winding on both >>> wires at the same time. >>> >>> Forget the amplifier part altogether, use what you want. >>> The ordinary single opamp with four resistors will allow you to wind >>> a single coil and use an amplifier of that type. >>> >>> I have never built such a singular thing and can only guess where to >>> begin. >>> >>> I do know that inital signal strength and signal to noise ratio is >>> paramount for any sensor at all and not just for areas of our own >>> interest. >>> >>> Easiest way to get a good signal to noise ratio seems to be to use a two >>> ton (avd.) mass instead of a two pound (avd.) one. The highest density >>> material you can afford. >>> That is not neccessary or desirable. >>> >>> Superconducting wire sounds ideal yet none at room temp as far as I >>> know. >>> There is none and unlikely to be any in the future. >>> >>> At the moment i am thinking two of your coil/magnet ideas in additive >>> fashion connected to the same mass. >>> Two coils should double the signal right from the start. Four would >>> quadruple it. >>> >>> >>> You usually do better by doubling the number of turns on a coil. A large >>> increase in the output can be readily achieved by using thicker NdFeB >>> magnets, rather than by using more turns on the coil. The limit is set >>> by diamagnetic forces on the copper wire at the edges of the magnets. >>> Copper wire varies in it's magnetic properties. >>> If you use a true differential amplifier like the INA118 with a >>> double wound coil, you can use finer wire since the coil resistance is >>> not so important. Calculate the kT noise voltage in the coil. Regards, >>> >>> Chris Chapman >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the >> message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:00:30 -0600 Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while transmitting --- my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon 207 low band filtering, torroids on in power and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods .... only about 20 ft from a lake antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and battery backup. When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still the interference is there! Any suggestions? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:17:48 +0000 Hi, You need to shield your cables properly. The reason why you are getting a raido interferience is because of poor shielding around your cables. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-02-20 at 11:00 -0600, Thomas Dick wrote: > Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while=20 > transmitting --- > my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon = 207 > low band filtering, torroids on in power=20 > and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods=20 > ... only about 20 ft from a lake > antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters=20 > at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V >=20 > my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction,=20 > Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside=20 > again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and=20 > battery backup. >=20 >=20 > When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs=20 > and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but=20 > abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I=20 > recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still=20 > the interference is there! Any suggestions? > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: AHrubetz@....... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:18:28 EST I don't know what your soil type is, but at my lake house I have a horizontal loop among the pine trees. The soil is sandy, so a ground stake would offer too much resistance. I ran a ground wire from the feed line balun at the base of a pine tree out about 40 feet to the lake. Then, I tied a brick around the end of the ground wire and threw it into the lake. Couldn't ask for a better ground than that. You might try that to extend your grounds, and see what happens, since you're only 20' away from the lake. Al In a message dated 2/20/2010 11:00:10 A.M. Central Standard Time, dickthomas01@............. writes: Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while transmitting --- my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon 207 low band filtering, torroids on in power and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods .... only about 20 ft from a lake antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and battery backup. When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still the interference is there! Any suggestions? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

I don't know what your soil type is, but at my= lake=20 house I have a horizontal loop among the pine trees. The soil= is=20 sandy, so a ground stake would offer too much resistance. = =20 I ran a ground wire from the feed line balun at the base of a pine tr= ee out=20 about 40 feet to the lake. Then, I tied a brick around the end of th= e=20 ground wire and threw it into the lake. Couldn't ask for a better gr= ound=20 than that. You might try that to extend your grounds, and see what= =20 happens, since you're only 20' away from the lake.

In a message dated 2/20/2010 11:00:10 A.M. Central Standard Time,=20 dickthomas01@............. writes:

Anyone=20 got some suggestions; experiencing interference while
transmitting= =20 ---
&n= bsp;=20 my ham radio setup; FT101, FT75= 7 and=20 Icon 207
&nbs= p;=20 low band filtering, torr= oids=20 on in power
and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods=20
... &n= bsp;=20 only about 20 ft from a lake
antennas; ve= rtical=20 for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters
at 80 feet, 160= =20 meter, 80-40 inverted V

my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans,= AS1=20 with magnetic induction,
Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal= cases=20 and grounded outside
again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones= ..=20 with isolation and
battery backup.

When I transmit on any= band.=20 drifting of the base line display occurs
and spikes appear. I used= to run=20 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but
abandoned that after 25 yrs= when I=20 couldn't cure this problem. I
recently put up the 80-40 meter antenn= a and=20 have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still
the interference is there! Any=20 suggestions?
________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email=20 PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first lin= e=20 only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.

Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:28:29 -0600 Thomas, I wished I knew an answer. When I was living up in Arkansas, both my HF and VHF antennas were in close proximity to my instruments and connecting cables. Either mode caused interference while transmitting. Since then, I have moved back to Texas and have just recently got my antennas back up. Now, I do not get interference on HF, but do when on VHF. The HF is a vertical mounted on a chain link fence about 75 ft away, but the dual-ban VHF/UHF antenna is loser mounted on the house. From that experience, I can only assume that the closer the antenna, the more likelihood of RF interference! Furthermore, I only have one vertical seismic instrument, located within the house, and shorter run of connecting cables. Sorry that I do not have an answer, but possibly some clues. Do you think that winding a coil in your seismic leads would act as a choke? Regards, Jerry AB5R -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Dick To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Ham radio interference Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while transmitting --- my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon 207 low band filtering, torroids on in power and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods ... only about 20 ft from a lake antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and battery backup. When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still the interference is there! Any suggestions? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Thomas, I wished I knew an answer. When I was living up in = Arkansas,=20 both my HF and VHF antennas were in close proximity to my instruments = and=20 connecting cables. Either mode caused interference while=20 transmitting.

Since then, I have moved back to Texas and have just recently got = my=20 antennas back up. Now, I do not get interference on HF, but do = when on=20 VHF. The HF is a vertical mounted on a chain link fence about 75 = ft away,=20 but the dual-ban VHF/UHF antenna is loser mounted on the house.

From that experience, I can only assume that the closer the = antenna, the=20 more likelihood of RF interference! Furthermore, I only have one = vertical=20 seismic instrument, located within the house, and shorter run of = connecting=20 cables.

Sorry that I do not have an answer, but possibly some clues. = Do you=20 think that winding a coil in your seismic leads would act as a = choke?

Regards,

Jerry AB5R

----- Original Message -----

From:=20 Thomas Dick

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Saturday, February 20, = 2010 11:00=20 AM

Subject: Ham radio = interference

Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference = while=20
transmitting=20 = ---
           =             &= nbsp;      =20 my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon=20 = 207
           =             &= nbsp;      =20 low band filtering, torroids on in power
and grounds -- ground = uses 6 ft=20 copper coated rods=20 =
...           =             &= nbsp;   =20 only about 20 ft from a lake
antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 = feet,=20 ground plane for ten meters
at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted=20 V

my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic=20 induction,
Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and = grounded=20 outside
again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with = isolation=20 and
battery backup.

When I transmit on any band. = drifting of=20 the base line display occurs
and spikes appear. I used to run 400 = watts on=20 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but
abandoned that after 25 yrs when I = couldn't cure=20 this problem. I
recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a = 1:1.2=20 SWR.... still
the interference is there! Any=20 = suggestions?
_________________________________________________________= _

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: "Jim Santee" jsantee@............ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 09:39:55 -0800 Experiment with "by-pass" capacitors on the input to your seismic monitor. A good quality AC power line filter on both units - seismic and transceiver. One problem that you might check into is what is called "an elevated ground". This is where your transmitter is grounded, but not truly grounded - confusing YES!. I have had to chase grounding problems in complex communication systems and this be frustrating. You start by making sure you have good quality grounding straps - I use the term straps to indicate 1" wide tinned copper braid or 1/16" thick x 1" wide flat copper stock in lieu of just a piece of wire. Fine stranded welding cable or high quality automobile battery straps have been used for grounding applications. Circular grounding wires can sometimes "radiate" and cause interference. Each and every grounding point needs to be cleaned and "no corrode" contact improver smeared on the connection points. You can get "no corrode" at electrical supply houses. Power companies and electrical contractors use this all the time. Now for the fun stuff: When you connect grounds, or any else for that matter - make sure that you are not causing your own problems by using dissimilar metals. For example, don't mix carbon steel hardware with copper wire. In the 1970's a common practice in residential construction was to use cheap aluminum wire in lieu of copper. Over the years the aluminum wire expanded and contracted at different rate from the contacts on switches and outlets - this created a "high resistance" contact which later heated up and caused fires. Last summer I had help my neighbor on this same issue - she is lucky she did not have a house fire. Here is a grounding story that went bad by design: I use to work on marine radar systems. The system engineer never considered that "his" pride and joy would ever have a problem. It seems that the engineer ignored electrolysis - he spec's called for aluminum waveguide to be connected to brass waveguide with steel screws - all on a boat in a salt water environment. Within six weeks the entire assembly was corroded beyond repair. In another application on an aluminum hull vessel the engineer had an HF radio connected to the hull using a copper grounding strap with a steel bolt - this was a real mess and caused considerable damage to the hull. One point in closing: Power line ground is not always "ground" for RF purposes. Power line ground is for safety purposes only and not for RF. You may need to install your own ground rods. Jim __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Ham radio interference From: Jack Ivey ivey@.......... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 12:42:29 -0500 It may be useful to add ferrite bead inductors in series with your signal=20 lines close to the amplifier. They will have no effect on the desired signal. The 6-hole beads seem to work well. Jack __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:13:29 -0600 Thanks J�n for comeback.... > You need to shield your cables properly. The reason why you are getting > a radio interference is because of poor shielding around your cables. > > I have fought it since ten meter days.I used Belden-M9636 CMB 6C24. I am told I could have done better but that is what I used. Equipment ground at each end. One piece is even surrounded with wire screen. At least one has a .01 capacitor acrossed the input coil ... no help. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:21:39 -0600 Thanks Al > *I don't know what your soil type is, but at my lake house I have a > horizontal loop among the pine trees. The soil is sandy, so a ground > stake would offer too much resistance. I ran a ground wire from the > feed line balun at the base of a pine tree out about 40 feet to the > lake. Then, I tied a brick around the end of the ground wire and > threw it into the lake. Couldn't ask for a better ground than that. > You might try that to extend your grounds, and see what happens, > since you're only 20' away from the lake.* > *Al* > Good point. The soil is clay and gravel here. And when I say twenty feet from the lake, I mean just that. I have a basement that is below ground water level. My house sits less than four feet above the surface of the lake. And I had a electronic dog fence that extended into the lake ... that wire is now part of the ground. The radio equipment is grounded separately from the seismic equipment. Wire size is #8 solid copper wire. The 80 ft tower is grounded as well. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:43:21 -0600 Thanks Jerry AB5R; Another interesting input ... you know 10 meters is fluky and running 400 watts was a pain. But I never run over about 100 watts on the low bands since I got rid of the repeater. The 10 meter antenna is at 80 ft and the 160meter antenna is right up theat while the 2 meter antenna is side mounted on the tower at about sixty feet ....so it is the fartherest from the seismic equipment which is in the basement. The 80-40 antenna is on the tower at about 35 ft. You jusr brought me to look at something. I use computer cable (Type CM 24 AWGE151955 CSA LL79189 TIA/E1A-568A) from the basement upstairs ....haven't gone WiFi with that computer yet. That may not be shielded. But that shouldn't show in the window on the recording computer ... by the way, I use VNC within my network so I can see the computer that is recording .... I use WinQuake and WinSDR > Since then, I have moved back to Texas and have just recently got my > antennas back up. Now, I do not get interference on HF, but do when > on VHF. The HF is a vertical mounted on a chain link fence about 75 > ft away, but the dual-ban VHF/UHF antenna is loser mounted on the house. > > > > Regards, > Jerry AB5R I have heard that grounds in Texas soils are hard to come by. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:08:17 -0600 Again good points .... Jim Santee: > Experiment with "by-pass" capacitors on the input to your seismic monitor. My coils are 220v relay coils. I have at least one unit with the .01 capacitor on it. I will check the rest. I don't think the AS-1 has any. I also used 1/4 inch metal square fencing to make a cage to put around one of the units. > A good quality AC power line filter on both units - seismic and > transceiver. One problem that you might check into is what is called > "an elevated ground". I have heard of that. Will check I have four six foot copper coated rods in the ground. I don't remember what kind of wire is on the tower ..but I know it IS grounded. Strange though ..... I have been hit by lightning twice. It cause over a $1000 damage to TV sets on the cable system in the house (I think this was induced current coming in on the cable line) In both cases, witnesses described "ball" lightning rolling off the ends of the guy wires that are attached to four inch metal posts at the four ends of my lot. The ball lightning traveled at least fifty feet along the ground. The first hit took out the commercial grade antenna at the top which vaporized a #8 wire coil. Neither damaged my radio equipment.... It did blow a small transistor in the 10 meter repeater identifier. > This is where your transmitter is grounded, but not truly grounded - > confusing YES!. I have had to chase grounding problems in complex > communication systems and this be frustrating. You start by making > sure you have good quality grounding straps - I use the term straps to > indicate 1" wide tinned copper braid or 1/16" thick x 1" wide flat > copper stock in lieu of just a piece of wire. Fine stranded welding > cable or high quality automobile battery straps have been used for > grounding applications. Circular grounding wires can sometimes > "radiate" and cause interference. Each and every grounding point needs > to be cleaned and "no corrode" contact improver smeared on the > connection points. You can get "no corrode" at electrical supply > houses. Power companies and electrical contractors use this all the time. > > Now for the fun stuff: When you connect grounds, or any else for that > matter - make sure that you are not causing your own problems by using > dissimilar metals. For example, don't mix carbon steel hardware with > copper wire. In the 1970's a common practice in residential > construction was to use cheap aluminum wire in lieu of copper. Over > the years the aluminum wire expanded and contracted at different rate > from the contacts on switches and outlets - this created a "high > resistance" contact which later heated up and caused fires. Last > summer I had help my neighbor on this same issue - she is lucky she > did not have a house fire. My house was built in 1946. All wiring to the ham rig area is new ... 30 amp to a new meter system. > > > Here is a grounding story that went bad by design: I use to work on > marine radar systems. The system engineer never considered that "his" > pride and joy would ever have a problem. It seems that the engineer > ignored electrolysis - he spec's called for aluminum waveguide to be > connected to brass waveguide with steel screws - all on a boat in a > salt water environment. Within six weeks the entire assembly was > corroded beyond repair. In another application on an aluminum hull > vessel the engineer had an HF radio connected to the hull using a > copper grounding strap with a steel bolt - this was a real mess and > caused considerable damage to the hull. > I used to own a 36 ft CrisCraft boat ..... the last year they made wooden hulls (1969). I wouldn't own an aluminum hull. I had enough trouble with the battery charger pitting the bronze propeller blades. > One point in closing: Power line ground is not always "ground" for RF > purposes. Power line ground is for safety purposes only and not for > RF. You may need to install your own ground rods. > Thanks for your input!! __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:10:12 -0600 Jack Ivey wrote: > It may be useful to add ferrite bead inductors in series with your signal > lines close to the amplifier. They will have no effect on the desired > signal. The 6-hole beads seem to work well. > Thanks Jack for your reply. But what is a ferrite bead? I do use toroids? Maybe I'm not current enough> __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Ham radio interference From: Jack Ivey ivey@.......... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:21:07 -0500 It's a ferrite core with one or more holes through it with wires threaded through them. It has lower distributed capacitance than a toroid, so sometimes does better than a toroid at HF and up. You can buy them in different materials for different frequency ranges. If you have a choice, pick the type that has highest=20 impedance near the interfering frequency. If you don't have a=20 choice, just use whetever you can get your hands on, it'll probably help. You can put them in series with the signal and return lines near=20 the connector in the box with your first stage of amplification. I also put them on any power supply lines coming into an amplifier. http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=3DM8694-ND Jack -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On= Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Saturday, February 20, 2010 3:10 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Ham radio interference Jack Ivey wrote: > It may be useful to add ferrite bead inductors in series with your signal= =20 > lines close to the amplifier. They will have no effect on the desired > signal. The 6-hole beads seem to work well. > =20 Thanks Jack for your reply. But what is a ferrite bead? I do use=20 toroids? Maybe I'm not current enough> __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: "James L. Gundersen" jgundie@....... Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 14:15:15 -0800 On 2/20/2010 9:00 AM, Thomas Dick wrote: > Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while > transmitting --- > my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and > Icon 207 > low band filtering, torroids on in power > and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods > ... only about 20 ft from a lake > antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten > meters at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V > > my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, > Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside > again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and > battery backup. > > > When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs > and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) > but abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I > recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still > the interference is there! Any suggestions? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > My experience has been interference is usually caused by the interfering source getting into the most sensitive part of electronics, typically the input of input amplifier. A voltage difference of ~10 mVrms will "overload" the transistors (bipolar technology; MOS tech much less susceptible but they have diode protection in the amplifier's front ends) and literally be rectified (detected) creating a dc current at the RF modulation frequency. (With AM its an audio frequency inteference signal and FM probably a DC when transmitted). The trick in concept is to reduce the interference by adding inductance in series combined with capacitance to "ground" to eliminate the interference. The source impedance of the interference is usually around 50 to 200 ohms at the susceptible circuit level. A 1nf will give a shunting impedance of 1 ohm at 2M but only 44 ohms at 80M hence you'd like to use 10nf or more if the circuit's normal performance won't be affected. These caps can be differentially across the input or to a "ground" or better yet both. . I should also note that the "good" ground that is often referred to may elusive in some cases. The ferrite beads in series with the source of the interferenc (if you actually know what the source path is; usually the input wiring) like a low impedance to ground to work into. Most ferrite beads have too little impedance at 80M so you may need more of a ferrite core. I should also note that one inch of wire is about 0.5 ohms at 80M but 22 ohms at 2M in case you don't have experience with this problem. Conceptually you would like to put a metal enclosure around the electronics for the seismograph and have "good" filters on all the inputs and outputs including power at the walls of the unit. This will "guarantee" no EMI problems. With this approach you don't need a "ground" because the walls become the common reference point and in fact should be a good ground. I mention this because it might not be that hard for you to put the circuits inside an enclosure (metal box) and get the results you need. To get a little different perspective of the problem your dealing with and it may not be a "single" problem, your 400W transmitter has about 150 Vrms signal to the antenna and your seismograph is sensitive to 10 mV of interference. The translates into needing over a 100db of isolation. And since you are transmitting it means even a small loop of wiring (etch or etc) in the seismograph circuitry in the will be coupled into by the transmitted signal. If you have a scope, you can make a loop of wire (or a dipole too) and see what magnitude of signal your making in the air. Interference problems can be very difficult to solve sometimes even for "experts". Your problem can be solved depending on you options. If you continue to have problems we can go into the details of your problem more Good luck. Jim __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Digest from 02/20/2010 00:00:04 From: RSparks rsparks@.......... Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 06:01:46 -0800 Hello Tom, I also had this problem and never completely solved it, but I did have considerable success in reducing the level of interference. I began by thinking that the computer and A/D was probably the common point of seismic noise generation. Most likely by rectification by overloading at the first amplification of seismic signal. So, try to get the RF off the input lines from seismometers into the computer and A/D. First I wrapped my (about 12 foot long) shielded cable running from seismometer to A/D (Saum built outboard device) through a torroid as many times as could be wrapped in the about 1 1/2 inch I.D. of the torroid. I did the same with the cable from A/D to computer, leaving the A/D isolated between torroids. This helped. Next I went into the Saum device and put a 0.01 mmf capacitor between the input terminal and ground. That helped a lot more without reducing the seismic signal noticeably. I expect that with Larry's A/D, you would need to do this for each channel (only if it is not already provided by Larry). Before doing any soldering, I suggest trying various configurations using components clipped in with short alligator leads. In summary and retrospect, I think that I had an RF common mode current that was developed on the seismic cables when I transmitted. By common mode, I mean that the current was running on the shield of the wire between A/D and seismometer. This resulted in the A/D being positive when the seismometer was negative (alternating). Good Luck on curing the problem, Roger On 02-21-2010 12:00 AM, psn-l-digest-request@.............. wrote: > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 1 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Ham radio interference > From: Thomas Dick > Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:00:30 -0600 > > Anyone got some suggestions; experiencing interference while > transmitting --- > my ham radio setup; FT101, FT757 and Icon 207 > low band filtering, torroids on in power > and grounds -- ground uses 6 ft copper coated rods > ... only about 20 ft from a lake > antennas; vertical for 2 meters at 60 feet, ground plane for ten meters > at 80 feet, 160 meter, 80-40 inverted V > > my seismic epuipment; two 20 sec Lehmans, AS1 with magnetic induction, > Larry Cochrane Amp, AD converter(in metal cases and grounded outside > again with a separate 6 rod), 4.5 HZ geophones .. with isolation and > battery backup. > > > When I transmit on any band. drifting of the base line display occurs > and spikes appear. I used to run 400 watts on 29.6 mHz (a repeater) but > abandoned that after 25 yrs when I couldn't cure this problem. I > recently put up the 80-40 meter antenna and have a 1:1.2 SWR.... still > the interference is there! Any suggestions? > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Orthogonal seismometer From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 12:29:57 EST Hi All, It seems to have gone rather quiet on the subject of seismometers lately. I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without problems. It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 second and supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of freedom. The electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an LED attached to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo detector thus resolving an X and Y components. Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a fixed position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave on an x-y plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance. If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough write up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the operative word. Martin Page

Hi All,

It seems to have gone rather quiet on the subject= of=20 seismometers lately.

I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum= =20 broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without=20 problems.

It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 seco= nd and=20 supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of freedom. The= =20 electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an LED atta= ched=20 to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo detector thus resolving= an X=20 and Y components.

Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a fixed= =20 position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave on= an x-y=20 plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance.

If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough write= =20 up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the operative= =20 word.

Martin Page

Subject: Re: Orthogonal seismometer From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:09:04 +0000 Hi Martin, Please do post some pictures and an article!! Saludos, Angel On Sun, 2010-02-21 at 12:29 -0500, Tangazazen@....... wrote: > Hi All, > > It seems to have gone rather quiet on the subject of seismometers > lately. > I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum > broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without > problems. > It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 second and > supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of freedom. > The electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an > LED attached to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo > detector thus resolving an X and Y components. > Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a fixed > position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave > on an x-y plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance. > > If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough write > up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the operative > word. > > > > Martin Page __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Ham radio interference From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:49:08 EST In a message dated 20/02/2010, dickthomas01@............. writes: Any suggestions? Hi Tom, Sure. Put the amplifier and ADC inside an Al box with a screwed on lid / folds. Use twin core input cable with a braided copper screen. Connect the amplifier input zero line to the box and to the braided screen and earth the box separately. Connect the seismometer magnet frame to the braided screen to shield the coil. Preferably also earth the seismometer frame. You may find 0.01 mu F ceramic capacitor and a 50 Ohm resistor in series with the coil at the coil terminals will remove most of the RF pickup. Check that the cable length is not at a resonant frequency of the transmitter. You can also make quite good LC filters for the AC house power supply lines. I tend to make my own using larger L ferrite values than commercial filters. You can get feedback through these lines. Recognise that filters only give a reduction in the error signals. If you have too high a signal level, some will inevitably get through. You might try using soldered / earthed fencing netting on the ceiling of your cellar where the seismometers are located? I once tried to heat a 6" rotating test disk with a 3.5 MHz 3 kW power oscillator. It caused chart recorders with shorted inputs to go off scale on the other side of the laboratory. This convinced me to try heating the disk with a spiral heating coil off a kitchen cooker, which avoided the problems. Good Luck! Chris

In a message dated 20/02/2010, dickthomas01@............. writes:

Any=20 suggestions?

Hi Tom,

Sure. Put the amplifier and ADC inside an Al= box=20 with a screwed on lid / folds. Use twin core input cable with a braided co= pper=20 screen. Connect the amplifier input zero line to the box and to the= braided=20 screen and earth the box separately. Connect the seismometer magnet frame= to the=20 braided screen to shield the coil. Preferably also earth the seismome= ter=20 frame. You may find 0.01 mu F ceramic capacitor and a 50 Ohm resistor in= series=20 with the coil at the coil terminals will remove most of the RF pickup. Che= ck=20 that the cable length is not at a resonant frequency of the transmitter.

You can also make quite good LC fil= ters=20 for the AC house power supply lines. I tend to make my own using larg= er L=20 ferrite values than commercial filters. You can get feedback through= these=20 lines.

Recognise that filters only give a reduction= in the=20 error signals. If you have too high a signal level, some will inevitably= get=20 through. You might try using soldered / earthed fencing netting on the cei= ling=20 of your cellar where the seismometers are located?

I once tried to heat a 6" rotating test disk= with a=20 3.5 MHz 3 kW power oscillator. It caused chart recorders with shorted inpu= ts to=20 go off scale on the other side of the laboratory. This convinced me to try= =20 heating the disk with a spiral heating coil off a kitchen cooker, whi= ch=20 avoided the problems.

Good Luck!

Chris

Subject: Re: Orthogonal seismometer From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 21 Feb 2010 22:50:56 EST In a message dated 21/02/2010, Tangazazen@....... writes: I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without problems. Hi Martin, Yes please! Regards, Chris

In a message dated 21/02/2010, Tangazazen@....... writes:

I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum= =20 broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without= =20 problems.

Hi Martin,

Yes please!

Regards,

Chris

Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 01:59:14 -0700 Would it be possible to use a single massive (ideal) wire like 1/4 inch in diameter with a magnet then increase the voltage to be sensed simply narrow the wire gradually to like 30 AWG wire in a current loop to act as a concentrator to boost the voltage ? Sort of like water through a pipe which narrows suddenly ? Is this silly ? It seems to me you can get considerable current using a single heavy wire, the trick is sensing that current which is essentially only one loop of a coil. ????? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Designed Specifiically for diff input - Wire From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:10:40 -0500 Geoff, No. Although it might appear that sensitivity is related to wire size, it is actually related to the number of turns in the coil--and to get many turns in your coil you have to use small wire. Brett At 03:59 AM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >Would it be possible to use a >single massive (ideal) wire like 1/4 inch >in diameter with a magnet then >increase the voltage to be sensed >simply narrow the wire gradually >to like 30 AWG wire in a current loop >to act as a concentrator to boost the voltage ? >Sort of like water through a pipe >which narrows suddenly ? >Is this silly ? > >It seems to me you can get considerable current >using a single heavy wire, the trick is >sensing that current which is essentially >only one loop of a coil. > >????? >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Volcanic tremor From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 11:11:55 +0000 Hi all, I did record my first volcanic tremor on 20.02.2010 at 18:08 UTC. The orgin of this volcano tremor is a volcano named Gr=EDmsfj=F6ll. But it came close to erupting on Saturday. I am going to post this volcano tremor to the psn web page soon. But I have rather large backlog of files to review. So it might take some time until this happens. More on the volcano, http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=3D1703-01=3D Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Orthogonal seismometer From: "Juan" stauffer@................ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 12:26:10 -0430 Sounds very interesting to me. Please include photos and description ! = Thanh you, hans stauffer ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Tangazazen@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Orthogonal seismometer=20 Hi All, It seems to have gone rather quiet on the subject of seismometers = lately.=20 I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal pendulum = broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years without = problems. It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 second and = supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of freedom. The = electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an LED = attached to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo detector thus = resolving an X and Y components. Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a fixed = position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave on = an x-y plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance. If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough write = up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the operative = word. Martin Page

Sounds very interesting to me. Please include photos and = description !=20 Thanh you, hans stauffer

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tangazazen@.......

To: psn-l@..............

Sent: Sunday, February 21, 2010 = 12:59=20 PM

Subject: Orthogonal seismometer =

Hi All,

It seems to have gone rather quiet on the = subject of=20 seismometers lately.

I was wonder if there is any interest in a orthogonal = pendulum=20 broadband version which has been in operation for 3 years = without=20 problems.

It consists of a short pendulum with a natural period of 1 = second=20 and supported by 4 leaf springs such that it has two degrees of = freedom. The=20 electronics gives the pendulum a period of 50 seconds and uses an LED = attached=20 to projects a spot of light onto a quadrant photo detector thus = resolving an X=20 and Y components.

Orthogonal electromagnetic transducers hold the pendulum in a = fixed=20 position as in the broadband configuration. Examination of the P wave = on an=20 x-y plot gives a line of travel of the disturbance.

If there is any interest I do have some photographs and a rough = write=20 up. I am not a computer publishing expert,so rough is the = operative=20 word.

Martin Page

Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 22:39:50 +0000 Hi all, I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even volcanoes.=20 Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes because I have intrest in them. Regards,=20 --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 15:19:11 -0800 Jon, I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start = here. I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice = that most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the hot = area around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean from = my location. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM To: PSN-Postlist Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi all, I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even volcanoes.=20 Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes because I have intrest in them. Regards,=20 --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:43:10 +0000 Hi Gary, Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that is why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer I can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered at 2Hz. http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz.p= sn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn.p= sn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe.p= sn The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start her= e. > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Brett > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice that > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the hot a= rea > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean from m= y > location. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > To: PSN-Postlist > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even > volcanoes.=20 >=20 > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > because I have intrest in them. >=20 > Regards,=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:06:48 -0800 Jon, Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And = the Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and = high pass .02Hz. With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updated every 10 minutes.=20 Gary =20 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi Gary, Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that is why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer I can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered at 2Hz. http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps n http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps n http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps n The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start here. > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and = Brett > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice = that > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the = hot area > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean = from my > location. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > To: PSN-Postlist > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even > volcanoes.=20 >=20 > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > because I have intrest in them. >=20 > Regards,=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:56:34 +0000 Hi Gary, Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano in CA, USA ? You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor working out in those cases ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And the > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and high > pass .02Hz. > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updated > every 10 minutes.=20 > Gary >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that is > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer I > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. >=20 > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered > at 2Hz. >=20 > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > n > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > n > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > n >=20 > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start > here. > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Bret= t > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice th= at > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the hot > area > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean from= my > > location. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > To: PSN-Postlist > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi all, > >=20 > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even > > volcanoes.=20 > >=20 > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > because I have intrest in them. > >=20 > > Regards,=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:31:00 -0800 Jon, The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. A = few minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without = the cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the unit = to calm down. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi Gary, Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano in CA, USA ? You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor working out in those cases ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And = the > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and = high > pass .02Hz. > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is = updated > every 10 minutes.=20 > Gary >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that = is > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer = I > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. >=20 > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered > at 2Hz. >=20 > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > n > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > n > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > n >=20 > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll = start > here. > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and = Brett > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice that > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the = hot > area > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean = from my > > location. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > To: PSN-Postlist > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi all, > >=20 > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and = geophones > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and = even > > volcanoes.=20 > >=20 > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > because I have intrest in them. > >=20 > > Regards,=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 01:39:56 +0000 Hi Gary, Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite instrument like the one you have. At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. A = few > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without th= e > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the unit = to > calm down. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano > in CA, USA ? >=20 > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > working out in those cases ? >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And t= he > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and hi= gh > > pass .02Hz. > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updated > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that i= s > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer I > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > >=20 > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered > > at 2Hz. > >=20 > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > n > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > n > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > n > >=20 > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start > > here. > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Br= ett > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice > that > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the h= ot > > area > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean fr= om > my > > > location. > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............. om] > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi all, > > >=20 > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophone= s > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and eve= n > > > volcanoes.=20 > > >=20 > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > > because I have intrest in them. > > >=20 > > > Regards,=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:06:06 -0800 Jon, Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to = the open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi Gary, Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite instrument like the one you have. At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. = A few > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without = the > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the = unit to > calm down. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any = volcano > in CA, USA ? >=20 > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > working out in those cases ? >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. = And the > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and high > > pass .02Hz. > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. = The > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is = updated > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure = that is > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is = the > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz = seismometer I > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > >=20 > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is = filtered > > at 2Hz. > >=20 > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > n > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > n > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > n > >=20 > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the = direction > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll = start > > here. > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and Brett > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and = notice > that > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this = the hot > > area > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean from > my > > > location. > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi all, > > >=20 > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and = geophones > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and = even > > > volcanoes.=20 > > >=20 > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > > because I have intrest in them. > > >=20 > > > Regards,=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 21:45:24 -0500 Gary, Did you completely remove the case and insulation or just unseal it? Without any protection at all, temperature change and air current effects are likely to be hugely greater than just those from the buoyancy variations. It looks pretty wild at the moment. I recall that when Dave was looking to observe pressure-change effects, he just uncaps the tire-valve port in the cover, but otherwise he leaves the seismo fully covered and insulated. Looks like when its sealed up it can perform really great. Brett At 09:06 PM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >Jon, >Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to the >open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would >calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. >Gary __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 19:09:42 -0800 Brett, Right now I have the cover off. As you remember, this is in the wine cellar, very stable temperature. But I agree the response is wild. I have it disconnected (high gain) right now and will try it again a little later tonight. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Brett Nordgren Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 6:45 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Gary, Did you completely remove the case and insulation or just unseal it? Without any protection at all, temperature change and air current effects are likely to be hugely greater than just those from the buoyancy variations. It looks pretty wild at the moment. I recall that when Dave was looking to observe pressure-change effects, he just uncaps the tire-valve port in the cover, but otherwise he leaves the seismo fully covered and insulated. Looks like when its sealed up it can perform really great. Brett At 09:06 PM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >Jon, >Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to the >open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would >calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. >Gary __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:30:20 -0500 Gary At 10:09 PM 2/22/2010, you wrote: >Brett, >Right now I have the cover off. As you remember, this is in the wine cellar, >very stable temperature. Just to provide some perspective: With a 100 second instrument using a spring having a temperature coefficient (of elasticity) of -240 ppm/deg C, you will see a 1um/sec output shift--perhaps two lines on your helicorder plot, from a temperature change rate of 6 milli-degrees C per hour. Insulation is good. I think adding the 50 second high-pass will reduce that effect considerably, though rapid, small, temperature changes will still look big at the output. > But I agree the response is wild. I have it >disconnected (high gain) right now and will try it again a little later >tonight. Good luck, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 15:26:14 +0000 Hi Gary, Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to th= e > open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would > calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the > response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite > instrument like the one you have. >=20 > At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic > tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the > volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. = A > few > > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without = the > > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the uni= t > to > > calm down. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano > > in CA, USA ? > >=20 > > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > > working out in those cases ? > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And > the > > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and > high > > > pass .02Hz. > > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The > > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updat= ed > > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............. om] > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > > To: psn-l@.............. > > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi Gary, > > >=20 > > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that= is > > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the > > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer= I > > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > > >=20 > > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtere= d > > > at 2Hz. > > >=20 > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > > n > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > > n > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > > n > > >=20 > > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the directio= n > > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > > >=20 > > > Regards, > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > >=20 > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > > Jon, > > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll sta= rt > > > here. > > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and > Brett > > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notic= e > > that > > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the > hot > > > area > > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean > from > > my > > > > location. > > > > Gary > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > > On > > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > >=20 > > > > Hi all, > > > >=20 > > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geopho= nes > > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and e= ven > > > > volcanoes.=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > > > because I have intrest in them. > > > >=20 > > > > Regards,=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 08:26:53 -0800 Hi Jon, I want to get a good clean display and will need another 12 hours and = then I'll put the cover back on. With you interest in volcanoes, have you = ever been to Hawaii and up to Volcanoes National Park and watched the = eruptions. They also have a nice earthquake research station there too. The lava is usually flowing. A few years ago I was at the area with lava flowing and = was there before sunrise and before the ranger was there and was able to see lava flow at my feet, really. It was all very safe. Gary =20 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:26 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi Gary, Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Jon, > Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to = the > open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it = would > calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. > Gary >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the > response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite > instrument like the one you have. >=20 > At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic > tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the > volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is = excellent. A > few > > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response = without the > > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the = unit > to > > calm down. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any = volcano > > in CA, USA ? > >=20 > > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > > working out in those cases ? > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. = And > the > > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz = and > high > > > pass .02Hz. > > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. = The > > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is updated > > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > =20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > > To: psn-l@.............. > > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi Gary, > > >=20 > > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure = that is > > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is = the > > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz = seismometer I > > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > > >=20 > > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is = filtered > > > at 2Hz. > > >=20 > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > > n > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > > n > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > > n > > >=20 > > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the = direction > > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > > >=20 > > > Regards, > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > >=20 > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > > Jon, > > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll start > > > here. > > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson = and > Brett > > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and = notice > > that > > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this = the > hot > > > area > > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open = ocean > from > > my > > > > location. > > > > Gary > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > > On > > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > >=20 > > > > Hi all, > > > >=20 > > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones > > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, = and even > > > > volcanoes.=20 > > > >=20 > > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording = earthquakes > > > > because I have intrest in them. > > > >=20 > > > > Regards,=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 16:32:58 +0000 I use to live 20 miles from the volcano park. I too have had the lava at my feet but with a relaxed ranger! It was very slow flowing. I used to monitor the daily acrobatics of the volcanoes with my 4.5 Hz geophone. I assume Tony is still in nearby Kona. Cheers Ian Gary Lindgren wrote: > Hi Jon, > I want to get a good clean display and will need another 12 hours and then > I'll put the cover back on. With you interest in volcanoes, have you ever > been to Hawaii and up to Volcanoes National Park and watched the eruptions. > They also have a nice earthquake research station there too. The lava is > usually flowing. A few years ago I was at the area with lava flowing and was > there before sunrise and before the ranger was there and was able to see > lava flow at my feet, really. It was all very safe. > Gary > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:26 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > Hi Gary, > > Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? > > Regards, > J�n Fr�mann. > > On m�n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > >> Jon, >> Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to the >> open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it would >> calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. >> Gary >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... >> > On > >> Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann >> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM >> To: psn-l@.............. >> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >> >> Hi Gary, >> >> Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the >> response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite >> instrument like the one you have. >> >> At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic >> tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the >> volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. >> >> Regards, >> J�n Fr�mann. >> >> On m�n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: >> >>> Jon, >>> The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent. A >>> >> few >> >>> minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response without >>> > the > >>> cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the unit >>> >> to >> >>> calm down. >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... >>> >> On >> >>> Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann >>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM >>> To: psn-l@.............. >>> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >>> >>> Hi Gary, >>> >>> Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volcano >>> in CA, USA ? >>> >>> You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor >>> working out in those cases ? >>> >>> Regards, >>> J�n Fr�mann. >>> >>> On m�n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: >>> >>>> Jon, >>>> Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. And >>>> >> the >> >>>> Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and >>>> >> high >> >>>> pass .02Hz. >>>> With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. The >>>> seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See >>>> http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is >>>> > updated > >>>> every 10 minutes. >>>> Gary >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: psn-l-request@.............. >>>> > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > >>> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann >>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM >>>> To: psn-l@.............. >>>> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >>>> >>>> Hi Gary, >>>> >>>> Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure that >>>> > is > >>>> why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is the >>>> absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismometer >>>> > I > >>>> can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. >>>> >>>> Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filtered >>>> at 2Hz. >>>> >>>> >>>> > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz.ps > >>>> n >>>> >>>> > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn.ps > >>>> n >>>> >>>> > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe.ps > >>>> n >>>> >>>> The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direction >>>> the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> J�n Fr�mann. >>>> >>>> On m�n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jon, >>>>> I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll >>>>> > start > >>>> here. >>>> >>>>> I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and >>>>> >> Brett >> >>>>> Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notice >>>>> >>> that >>> >>>>> most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the >>>>> >> hot >> >>>> area >>>> >>>>> around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean >>>>> >> from >> >>> my >>> >>>>> location. >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: psn-l-request@.............. >>>>> >> [mailto:psn-l-request@............... >> >>>> On >>>> >>>>> Behalf Of J�n Fr�mann >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM >>>>> To: PSN-Postlist >>>>> Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and >>>>> > geophones > >>>>> here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and >>>>> > even > >>>>> volcanoes. >>>>> >>>>> Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes >>>>> because I have intrest in them. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>>> >>>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>>> >>>> >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>>> >>>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Header Data Extraction tool From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:57:03 -0500 Hello all, A while back a couple of people expressed a wish for some way to extract parameters from the headers of event files into a spreadsheet. I was recently looking for an idea for a "kindergarden level" project to try to learn how to build a Windows application in Visual C++. I wound up writing a little tool that meets this need, albeit in a fairly crude way. The tool will examine the header data from one or more PSN event data files and generate a file that contains user selected parameters from each event file. The resulting file is a tab delimited .txt file that is readable by most spreadsheets (eg. Excel) and database programs. I think the program probably has more value as a training project than as a serious tool, but if anyone would like to try it out, I'd be happy to send you a copy to play with. Larry Conklin Liverpool, NY lconklin@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Header Data Extraction tool From: "Joe & Betty Lincoln" joe@................. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 11:00:38 -0600 Please send me a copy Larry. Just what I need for my website SQL archives. Thanks, Joe Lincoln SPRING, TX -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Larry Conklin Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:57 AM To: PSN List Subject: Header Data Extraction tool Hello all, A while back a couple of people expressed a wish for some way to extract parameters from the headers of event files into a spreadsheet. I was recently looking for an idea for a "kindergarden level" project to try to learn how to build a Windows application in Visual C++. I wound up writing a little tool that meets this need, albeit in a fairly crude way. The tool will examine the header data from one or more PSN event data files and generate a file that contains user selected parameters from each event file. The resulting file is a tab delimited .txt file that is readable by most spreadsheets (eg. Excel) and database programs. I think the program probably has more value as a training project than as a serious tool, but if anyone would like to try it out, I'd be happy to send you a copy to play with. Larry Conklin Liverpool, NY lconklin@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:44:48 +0000 Hi Gary, I have not been to Hawaii, as I cannot afford it at the moment. The Hawaii volcano is a slow lava, it comes forward slowly and does the damage when it comes down. The volcanoes in Iceland are the most common types. The one that are like the one in Hawaii and the one that makes a ash clould. Sometimes that is a mixture of both. With my first ever harmonic tremor recorded this weekend. I know that my plots are going to look intresting the Hekla volcano starts erupting. But my Heklubygg=F0 seismomiter is only about ~12km away from that volcano. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On =FEri, 2010-02-23 at 08:26 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > Hi Jon, > I want to get a good clean display and will need another 12 hours and the= n > I'll put the cover back on. With you interest in volcanoes, have you ever > been to Hawaii and up to Volcanoes National Park and watched the eruption= s. > They also have a nice earthquake research station there too. The lava is > usually flowing. A few years ago I was at the area with lava flowing and = was > there before sunrise and before the ranger was there and was able to see > lava flow at my feet, really. It was all very safe. > Gary >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:26 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? >=20 > Hi Gary, >=20 > Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Jon, > > Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to = the > > open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it woul= d > > calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. > > Gary > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] > On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >=20 > > Hi Gary, > >=20 > > Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the > > response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite > > instrument like the one you have. > >=20 > > At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic > > tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the > > volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. > >=20 > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >=20 > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > Jon, > > > The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent= .. A > > few > > > minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response withou= t > the > > > cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the u= nit > > to > > > calm down. > > > Gary > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............. om] > > On > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > > > To: psn-l@.............. > > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > >=20 > > > Hi Gary, > > >=20 > > > Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volca= no > > > in CA, USA ? > > >=20 > > > You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > > > working out in those cases ? > > >=20 > > > Regards, > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > >=20 > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > > Jon, > > > > Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. A= nd > > the > > > > Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz an= d > > high > > > > pass .02Hz. > > > > With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. T= he > > > > seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > > > > http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is > updated > > > > every 10 minutes.=20 > > > > Gary > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > =20 > > > >=20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > > On > > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > > > > To: psn-l@.............. > > > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > >=20 > > > > Hi Gary, > > > >=20 > > > > Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure th= at > is > > > > why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is t= he > > > > absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismomet= er > I > > > > can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > > > >=20 > > > > Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filte= red > > > > at 2Hz. > > > >=20 > > > > > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz= ..ps > > > > n > > > > > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn= ..ps > > > > n > > > > > > > > > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe= ..ps > > > > n > > > >=20 > > > > The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the direct= ion > > > > the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > > > >=20 > > > > Regards, > > > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > > >=20 > > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > > > > Jon, > > > > > I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll > start > > > > here. > > > > > I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson an= d > > Brett > > > > > Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and not= ice > > > that > > > > > most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this t= he > > hot > > > > area > > > > > around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocea= n > > from > > > my > > > > > location. > > > > > Gary > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: psn-l-request@.............. > > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > > > On > > > > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > > > > > To: PSN-Postlist > > > > > Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > > >=20 > > > > > Hi all, > > > > >=20 > > > > > I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and > geophones > > > > > here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and > even > > > > > volcanoes.=20 > > > > >=20 > > > > > Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > > > > > because I have intrest in them. > > > > >=20 > > > > > Regards,=20 > > > >=20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > >=20 > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >=20 > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > >=20 > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >=20 > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > >=20 > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > >=20 > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 17:57:23 +0000 Hi Ian, How did the harmonic tremor show up on 4.5Hz geophone ? I now have clues what to look for because of the volcano earthquake on the 20.02.2010. But I am yet to record a harmonic tremor. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On =FEri, 2010-02-23 at 16:32 +0000, ian wrote: > I use to live 20 miles from the volcano park. I too have had the lava=20 > at my feet but with a relaxed ranger! It was very slow flowing. >=20 > I used to monitor the daily acrobatics of the volcanoes with my 4.5 Hz=20 > geophone. I assume Tony is still in nearby Kona. >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Ian >=20 > Gary Lindgren wrote: > > Hi Jon, > > I want to get a good clean display and will need another 12 hours and t= hen > > I'll put the cover back on. With you interest in volcanoes, have you ev= er > > been to Hawaii and up to Volcanoes National Park and watched the erupti= ons. > > They also have a nice earthquake research station there too. The lava i= s > > usually flowing. A few years ago I was at the area with lava flowing an= d was > > there before sunrise and before the ranger was there and was able to se= e > > lava flow at my feet, really. It was all very safe. > > Gary > > > > > > =20 > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... ] On > > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > > Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 7:26 AM > > To: psn-l@.............. > > Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > > > > Hi Gary, > > > > Did you get the resaults from it that you did want ? > > > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > > > On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 18:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > =20 > >> Jon, > >> Yes I'm testing the seismometer without the case, it is now exposed to= the > >> open air and any changes in the atmospheric pressure, I thought it wou= ld > >> calm down by now. I wanted plots with and without the pressure case. > >> Gary > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@.............. m] > >> =20 > > On > > =20 > >> Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 5:40 PM > >> To: psn-l@.............. > >> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >> > >> Hi Gary, > >> > >> Are you testing your seismometer for something special ? I do see the > >> response on your plot. It is as one would expect from a sensivite > >> instrument like the one you have. > >> > >> At ~482km distance from a volcano you won't record any of the harmonic > >> tremors the volcano can make. But you might see earthquakes from the > >> volcano if it makes a Mb5.0 happen. > >> > >> Regards, > >> J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >> > >> On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 17:31 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > >> =20 > >>> Jon, > >>> The nearest volcano is probably 300 miles away. The case is excellent= .. A > >>> =20 > >> few > >> =20 > >>> minutes ago I remove the cover in order to record the response withou= t > >>> =20 > > the > > =20 > >>> cover and open to the atmosphere. It's going to take awhile for the u= nit > >>> =20 > >> to > >> =20 > >>> calm down. > >>> Gary > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............. om] > >>> =20 > >> On > >> =20 > >>> Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:57 PM > >>> To: psn-l@.............. > >>> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >>> > >>> Hi Gary, > >>> > >>> Thanks for the link. This is quite intresting. Are you near any volca= no > >>> in CA, USA ? > >>> > >>> You must record some local earthquake near you. How is your sensor > >>> working out in those cases ? > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >>> > >>> On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 16:06 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > >>> =20 > >>>> Jon, > >>>> Today I detected the Tonga M6.0 and M5.3 quakes, 77 degrees away. An= d > >>>> =20 > >> the > >> =20 > >>>> Kermandec Islands M5.2, 82 degrees away. I filter Low pass .08Hz and > >>>> =20 > >> high > >> =20 > >>>> pass .02Hz. > >>>> With the filters I'm using I'm looking for the long range quakes. Th= e > >>>> seismometer has a flat response from 100 seconds to 20Hz. See > >>>> http://www.blue-eagle-technologies.com/seismo1.html The data is > >>>> =20 > > updated > > =20 > >>>> every 10 minutes.=20 > >>>> Gary > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> =20 > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: psn-l-request@.............. > >>>> =20 > > [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > > =20 > >>> On > >>> =20 > >>>> Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:43 PM > >>>> To: psn-l@.............. > >>>> Subject: RE: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >>>> > >>>> Hi Gary, > >>>> > >>>> Isn't the FBV seismometer a low frequency seismometer. I am sure tha= t > >>>> =20 > > is > > =20 > >>>> why you are detecting earthquakes from the South Pacific. What is th= e > >>>> absolute minimal size that you can detect ? With my 4.5Hz seismomete= r > >>>> =20 > > I > > =20 > >>>> can go down to ML0.01 when weather is good. > >>>> > >>>> Here is how a volcano tremor looks like on my system. This is filter= ed > >>>> at 2Hz. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> =20 > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hk= bz.ps > > =20 > >>>> n > >>>> > >>>> =20 > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hk= bn.ps > > =20 > >>>> n > >>>> > >>>> =20 > > http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hk= be.ps > > =20 > >>>> n > >>>> > >>>> The movement was most at E-W sensor. But I guess that is the directi= on > >>>> the magma was pushing when this earthquake did happen. > >>>> > >>>> Regards, > >>>> J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >>>> > >>>> On m=E1n, 2010-02-22 at 15:19 -0800, Gary Lindgren wrote: > >>>> =20 > >>>>> Jon, > >>>>> I'm sorry we don't have enough discussions on earthquakes. I'll > >>>>> =20 > > start > > =20 > >>>> here. > >>>> =20 > >>>>> I have a FBV seismometer built along the design of Dave Nelson and > >>>>> =20 > >> Brett > >> =20 > >>>>> Nordgren. It is extremely sensitive. I live in California and notic= e > >>>>> =20 > >>> that > >>> =20 > >>>>> most of the earthquakes I see are in the South Pacific. Is this the > >>>>> =20 > >> hot > >> =20 > >>>> area > >>>> =20 > >>>>> around the world or am I seeing them because I have the open ocean > >>>>> =20 > >> from > >> =20 > >>> my > >>> =20 > >>>>> location. > >>>>> Gary > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: psn-l-request@.............. > >>>>> =20 > >> [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > >> =20 > >>>> On > >>>> =20 > >>>>> Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >>>>> Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 2:40 PM > >>>>> To: PSN-Postlist > >>>>> Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all, > >>>>> > >>>>> I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and > >>>>> =20 > > geophones > > =20 > >>>>> here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and > >>>>> =20 > > even > > =20 > >>>>> volcanoes.=20 > >>>>> > >>>>> Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes > >>>>> because I have intrest in them. > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards,=20 > >>>>> =20 > >>>> __________________________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >>>> > >>>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > >>>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> __________________________________________________________ > >>>> > >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >>>> > >>>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > >>>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >>>> =20 > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >>> > >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >>> > >>> > >>> __________________________________________________________ > >>> > >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >>> > >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >>> =20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > =20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: ian ian@........... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 19:56:23 +0000 Hi, I'm not sure what the answer is but I posted a few local volcano tremours to psn in 2001. For instance, see http://www.webtronics.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/0105/010512a.hl1.psn and the data file is at http://www.webtronics.com/quakes/0105/010512a.hl1.psn You can also search the records for 2001 with station id hl1. I found 4 this way. I suspect I posted more but perhaps the search function isn't perfect. Tony at Quakekona posted much more and was way better than I was. Cheers Ian __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2010 20:31:59 +0000 Hi Ian, There are three types of earthquakes. Normal high frequancy events that happen when the crust breaks. We usally get those all the time. Then there are the volcano type of earthquakes, that happen just before a volcano starts a eruption, here is a good sample of such earthquake that I did record last weekend. This trance is filtered at 2Hz, http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbe.p= sn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbn.p= sn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/1002/100220.180800.hkbz.p= sn Then there is the harmonic tremor that can be seen when magma is pushing up trugh the crust in a eruption. I have never seen those, but those how are living near a activie volcano that is erupting should see all the time. I don't know how well 4.5Hz geophone can pickup such tremors. But I do know that I am going to get a answer to that question soon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_tremor http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/glossary/?term=3Dharmonic%20tremor Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On =FEri, 2010-02-23 at 19:56 +0000, ian wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I'm not sure what the answer is but I posted a few local volcano=20 > tremours to psn in 2001. For instance, see=20 > http://www.webtronics.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/0105/010512a.hl1.ps= n=20 > and the data file is at=20 > http://www.webtronics.com/quakes/0105/010512a.hl1.psn >=20 > You can also search the records for 2001 with station id hl1. I found 4=20 > this way. I suspect I posted more but perhaps the search function isn't=20 > perfect. Tony at Quakekona posted much more and was way better than I wa= s. >=20 > Cheers >=20 > Ian >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: No intrest in earthquakes ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 16:52:09 -0700 Hello Mr. J�n Fr�mann, Earthquake waves are not a whole lot different than sound waves and behave fairly similar. I am most interested in the detection and recording of these waves than anything else. It is a way to pass the time while having a minimum of contact with human life which always seem to want me locked up. The USA is not a nice place like other people may have told you. It is a place where they want to get rid of you one way or another if you are not exactly like they are. ( Stand Aside Adolph Hitler, America is now here ) I served to become a vietnam veteran honorably and returned home to find I hated my own people worse than any foreigner who does not know or care that I exist. There are no rights here. They can lock you up any time they want for just about any reason they want. In the USA, To be accused is to be guilty. Frankly, my people here in the USA ( USA CITIZENS ) invent their own enemies. They deserve the terror they are afraid of. The constitution and its amendments actually are not enforced to even the tiniest degree. No Miranda rights anymore. If you are single white male ( possibly black oe oriental too ) It is best to climb into a hole and avoid the type "A" personalities because otherwise you will need a weapon of mass destruction just to make a simple point you want those puppet masters to all keep their distance. I tell you this simply because its the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. ( I believe in no god/gods or devil/devils ) Try to find a career and a life of your own after some stupid doctor (PHD holder and not medical doctor ) labels/blacklists you as being mentally ill ( which is no crime ) More than likely you will be a street person. Stupid Americans confuse mental illness with insanity. Insanity is a legal, not a medical, term. This is my own purpose for being an Amature anything. I hope there are countries out there that do not force ways ( social expectations ) on type "B" people. A place where you can go from High School to grave under your own power. In whatever field of work is of most interest. Oh yes, by the way, International laws of first order countries do not allow emmigration of the mentally ill. Just like they do not allow emmigration of major criminals. For all intents and purposes the mentally ill are also felons. America, What a country. Sincerely, Geoffrey M. Voeth ----- Original Message ----- From: "J�n Fr�mann" To: "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 3:39 PM Subject: No intrest in earthquakes ? Hi all, I often see here technical discussion about seismometers and geophones here. But what I don't see are disscusions about earthquakes, and even volcanoes. Can someone explain to me why that is. I am recording earthquakes because I have intrest in them. Regards, -- J�n Fr�mann J�nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Another FBV Seismometer From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:11:31 -0800 In August of 2008 I started to get interested in the Force Balance Vertical Seismometer design that Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren were putting together. I completed my version of this fabulous seismometer in early December of last year. I put together a web site that describes the process I went through to achieve the end result. See http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Any feedback is most welcome. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com dtvtransitioninfo.blogspot.com Information on how to cope with the transition to DTV

In August of 2008 I started to get interested in = the Force Balance Vertical Seismometer design that Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren = were putting together. I completed my version of this fabulous seismometer in early = December of last year. I put together a web site that describes the process I = went through to achieve the end result. See = http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Any feedback is most welcome.

Gary

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

650-326-0655<= /span>

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

dtvtransitioninfo.blogspot.com = ; Information on how to cope with the transition = to DTV

Subject: Re: Digest from 02/25/2010 00:00:36 From: RSparks rsparks@.......... Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 05:19:16 -0800 Hi Gary, Congratulations on your efforts. I always admire good workmanship and that is what is displayed here on several fronts. Thanks for making the web site available. I am curious about your FFTs. I assume that the source data was not filtered with software. Did you use WinQuake to generate the FFT displays? Your sample rate must have been near 100 sps? Roger On 02-26-2010 12:00 AM, psn-l-digest-request@.............. wrote: > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 1 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Another FBV Seismometer > From: "Gary Lindgren" > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 20:11:31 -0800 > > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_09C5_01CAB656.B8FB2570 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In August of 2008 I started to get interested in the Force Balance Vertical > Seismometer design that Dave Nelson and Brett Nordgren were putting > together. I completed my version of this fabulous seismometer in early > December of last year. I put together a web site that describes the process > I went through to achieve the end result. See > http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Any feedback is most > welcome. > > Gary > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Help me LEARN From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:04:57 -0600 After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve my question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short. So! Question: 1) Today's trace of the 3.1 event in Oklahoma displays in WinQuake that both the Pb & Sb were seconds BEFORE the P & S times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I actually drop it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" being off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect? 2) Another "pause" that I have when using WinQuake of any event is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a local event would be short, a regional would be a little longer and a teleseismic may be over an hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb time that you experienced people use? Thanks & Best regards, Jerry

After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious = that I=20 know very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am = often=20 embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve my = question(s). Even at that, many time I fall short.

So! Question:

1) Today's trace of the = 3.1 event=20 in Oklahoma displays in WinQuake that both the=20 Pb & Sb were seconds=20 BEFORE the P & = S=20 times. To me, that seems like I get a bouncing ball BEFORE I = actually drop=20 it! What did I do wrong? Is this a matter of the "tables" = being=20 off? Or, am I wrong in assuming it is incorrect?

2) Another "pause" that I have = when=20 using WinQuake of any event is HOW LONG to plot it. Obviously, a = local=20 event would be short, a regional would be a little longer and a = teleseismic may=20 be over an hour. But, I was wondering IF there was a rule-of-thumb = time=20 that you experienced people use?

Thanks & Best regards,

Jerry

Subject: Re: Help me LEARN From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2010 09:54:06 -0600 GPayton wrote: > After reading many posts on the PSN Net, it is obvious that I know > very little as compared to MANY of you out there. I am often > embarrassed to ask a question and turn to the books to try to resolve > my question(s). Even at that, many time I fal