Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 12:46:42 -0700 (PDT) It is quite coincidental that the biologists started the toad experiment 10= days before the quake. Maybe we should be monitoring biologists instead of= Toads??=0APete=0A=0A--- On Wed, 3/31/10, Larry Conklin wrote:=0A=0A> From: Larry Conklin =0A> Subject:= Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes=0A> To: psn-l@............... =0A> Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 8:52 AM=0A> Gee, sounds like they're = on to=0A> something.=A0 Maybe they could line up a bunch of them=0A> and bu= ild a "toad array".=0A> =0A> =0A> On 3/31/2010 11:48 AM, Dave Saum wrote:= =0A> > http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=3DCNG.66b782894f81ce27897897= 6e97a59e5b.a61&show_article=3D1=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A= > __________________________________________________________=0A> =0A> Publi= c Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A> =0A> To leave this list email PS= N-L-REQUEST@.................> with the body of the message (first line onl= y): unsubscribe=0A> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html=0A> for mor= e information.=0A> =0A=0A=0A __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes From: "Marchal van Lare" vanlare@............. Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 22:22:43 +0200 Hi all, I have lots of doubts when one is calling toads as 'earthquake predictors'. This time of year (March-April) animals like toads and frogs wake up from their wintersleep and travel to their 'ideal spot' to meet females and to lay eggs. Toads wake up from their wintersleep when the temperature rises suddenly during spring. This lasts a couple of days and it doesn't matter when the weather is getting a little wintry afterwards (I have seen toads in my own garden during a snow shower in late spring). In Holland, lots of toads need to cross a road (from one pond to another), therefore volunteers help the toads to get them to the other side of roads. In my area, last 3 weeks showed an explosive amount of toads on the roads. This amount showed an enourmous drop during the last week. In fact, it means most male toads have reached their destination, so the amount of 'transfers' have dropped. It is typically seasonal. Cheers, Marchal -Oostburg, The Netherlands ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Rowe" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 9:46 PM Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes It is quite coincidental that the biologists started the toad experiment 10 days before the quake. Maybe we should be monitoring biologists instead of Toads?? Pete --- On Wed, 3/31/10, Larry Conklin wrote: > From: Larry Conklin > Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010, 8:52 AM > Gee, sounds like they're on to > something. Maybe they could line up a bunch of them > and build a "toad array". > > > On 3/31/2010 11:48 AM, Dave Saum wrote: > > http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.66b782894f81ce278978976e97a59e5b.a61&show_article=1 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. > with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html > for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 15:33:23 -0500 In Holland, lots of toads need to cross a road (from one pond to another), therefore volunteers help the toads to get them to the other side of roads. I can't help myself and ask, "WHY does the toad cross the road?" I always thought it was a chicken. (P.S. For our friend in the Netherlands.....That is an OLD joke, asking why the chicken crosses the road.)
In Holland, lots of toads need to cross a road (from one pond to = another),=20 therefore volunteers help the toads to get them to the other side of = roads.=20
I can't help myself and ask, "WHY does the toad cross the=20 road?"  I always thought it was a chicken.
 
(P.S.  For our friend in the Netherlands.....That is an OLD = joke,=20 asking why the chicken crosses the road.)
Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes From: "Marchal van Lare" vanlare@............. Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:06:29 +0200 I keep asking ask this question myself, I have experienced lots of 'toad = accidents' with the car yearly.=20 On the other hand, it's a thing from nature. Just a thought, maybe the = roads are not supposed to be??? This resolves into another question; WHY should a toad take cover for an = impending quake? Cheers, Marchal ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:33 PM Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes In Holland, lots of toads need to cross a road (from one pond to = another), therefore volunteers help the toads to get them to the other = side of roads.=20 I can't help myself and ask, "WHY does the toad cross the road?" I = always thought it was a chicken. (P.S. For our friend in the Netherlands.....That is an OLD joke, = asking why the chicken crosses the road.)
I keep asking ask this question myself, = I have=20 experienced lots of 'toad accidents' with the car yearly.
 
On the other hand, it's a thing from=20 nature. Just a thought, maybe the roads are not supposed to=20 be???
 
This resolves into another=20 question; WHY should a toad take cover for an impending = quake?
 
 
 
Cheers, Marchal
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton=20
Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 = 10:33=20 PM
Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale = for=20 impending quakes

In Holland, lots of toads need to cross a road (from one pond to=20 another), therefore volunteers help the toads to get them to the other = side of=20 roads.
I can't help myself and ask, "WHY does the toad cross the = road?"  I always thought it was a chicken.
 
(P.S.  For our friend in the Netherlands.....That is an OLD = joke,=20 asking why the chicken crosses = the road.)
Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2010 17:20:01 EDT In a message dated 31/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes: In Holland, lots of toads need to cross a road (from one pond to another), therefore volunteers help the toads to get them to the other side of roads. I can't help myself and ask, "WHY does the toad cross the road?" I always thought it was a chicken. Why did the chicken go to the middle of the road and stop there? Beacuse it was a Rhode Island Red. Chris
In a message dated 31/03/2010, gpayton@............. writes:
In Holland, lots of toads need to cross a road (from one pond to=20 another), therefore volunteers help the toads to get them to the other= side of=20 roads.
I can't help myself and ask, "WHY does the toad cross the= =20 road?"  I always thought it was a=20 chicken.
Why did the chicken go to the middle of the road and stop there?=
 
 
Beacuse it was a Rhode Island Red.
 
    
Chris
Subject: RE: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes From: "Dale Hardy" photon1@........... Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 17:46:03 +1100 Yeah, or build a ' Toad Hollow ' -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Larry Conklin Sent: Thursday, 1 April 2010 2:52 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes Gee, sounds like they're on to something. Maybe they could line up a bunch of them and build a "toad array". On 3/31/2010 11:48 AM, Dave Saum wrote: > http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.66b782894f81ce278978976e97a59e5b ..a61&show_article=1 > __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 07:51:29 -0700 I understand the US Navy uses passive TOAD arrays ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Saum" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 8:48 AM Subject: Toad is a telltale for impending quakes > http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.66b782894f81ce278978976e97a59e5b.a61&show_article=1 > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Calibrating Second Lehman From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Fri, 2 Apr 2010 15:43:48 -0700 I have remodeled my old 2 year old Lehman by going from 3" wide aluminum bars to 2.5" wide bars and using the same coil and same Chris Chapman magnets. At the same time I built a second Lehman that will be my NS seismometer. At the present time I have both lined up as EW and I want calibrate so that I see the same response on both before I position the second unit to NS. The coil on the second is 1850 turns vs. 1650 turns for the first and the second unit has a 27 second period vs. 23 second for the first. I'm adjusting the gain on Larry's analog board to get the same response. I have the same filtering (WinSDR) on both units. What I'm seeing is that the first unit seems to have more background noise and higher frequency content. And the FFT confirms that. Is the longer period and or larger number of turns in the coil related to this? Any thoughts are most welcome. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

I have remodeled my old 2 year old Lehman by going = from 3" wide aluminum bars to 2.5" wide bars and using the same = coil and same Chris Chapman magnets. At the same time I built a second Lehman that = will be my NS seismometer. At the present time I have both lined up as EW and I = want calibrate so that I see the same response on both before I position the second = unit to NS. The coil on the second is 1850 turns vs. 1650 turns for the first = and the second unit has a 27 second period vs. 23 second for the first. I'm = adjusting the gain on Larry's analog board to get the same response. I have the = same filtering (WinSDR) on both units. What I'm seeing is that the first unit = seems to have more background noise and higher frequency content. And the FFT confirms that. Is the longer period and or larger number of turns in the = coil related to this?

Any thoughts are most welcome.

Gary

 

 

 

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655<= /span>

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home<= /a>    Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

 

 

Subject: Earth tides, 2 From: Dick Habegger amej@............. Date: Fri, 02 Apr 2010 23:45:52 -0700 Hi All, I am sorry that I posted my previous e-mail to this group. I thought I was sending it directly to George. Since the post may not include my attached files, please send me an e-mail, so I can send each of you the files. When I have time I will post them on a page of my Web Site; but not now! Thank you for your understanding and comments I have received regarding the seismographs. I will update all when I have made a decision. Regards, Dick Habegger, N6MAS Phelan, CA __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: lights? From: JAMES RIDOUT jamesridout@.............. Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 13:41:14 -0700 (PDT) Hi All , Ive been watching the volcano on iceland erupting for the last 20 = mins, and there are some strange lights moving around, any one any ideas wh= at they might be?=0A James=0A=0Ahttp://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjal= lajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/=0A
Subject: Re: lights? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 20:43:59 +0000 Hi, Thouse are cars and airplains of all types. Here is a diffrent web cam. http://www.vodafone.is/eldgos There is a lot of traffic there. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On lau, 2010-04-03 at 13:41 -0700, JAMES RIDOUT wrote: > Hi All , Ive been watching the volcano on iceland erupting for the > last 20 mins, and there are some strange lights moving around, any one > any ideas what they might be? > James >=20 > http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: lights? From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 15:57:51 -0500 That appears to not be "normal" video frame rate either. Therefore, it would be jumpy. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: JAMES RIDOUT To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 3:41 PM Subject: lights? Hi All , Ive been watching the volcano on iceland erupting for the last 20 mins, and there are some strange lights moving around, any one any ideas what they might be? James http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/ =EF=BB=BF
That appears to not be "normal" video frame rate either.  = Therefore,=20 it would be jumpy.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 JAMES RIDOUT
Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 = 3:41=20 PM
Subject: lights?

Hi All , Ive been watching the volcano on iceland erupting for = the last=20 20 mins, and there are some strange lights moving around, any one any = ideas=20 what they might=20 = be?
           =   =20 James

http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/=
Subject: Re: lights? From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 09:47:11 +1000 Indeed, :) there has been masses of vehicles going to and from the volcano some of them have even been passing and stopping in front of the camera and waving hi to all haha, lots of helicopters and fixed wings buzzing overhead too I have saved many screen shots from the cams several show the people moving around The best times for seeing the volcanic activity has been around dawn and= =20 dusk Iclandic time. its been realling interesting seeing the changes in=20 activity over the last 2 weeks, as some vents die off and new fissures open up cheers Dave N Sydney PS Jon I tried that other link you posted below it didnt show the cam = :( the page opens but the cam never seems to be working At 08:43 PM 4/3/2010 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, >Thouse are cars and airplains of all types. >Here is a diffrent web cam. > >http://www.vodafone.is/eldgos > >There is a lot of traffic there. > >Regards, >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: lights? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2010 23:57:38 +0000 Hi, The Vodafone web cam appears to be having some issues. I hope they fix it after the easter. It mostly affect people how are outside UTC time zone for some reason. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-04-04 at 09:47 +1000, Dave Nelson wrote: > Indeed, :) >=20 > there has been masses of vehicles going to and from the volcano > some of them have even been passing and stopping in front of the camera > and waving hi to all haha, lots of helicopters and fixed wings buzzi= ng > overhead too > I have saved many screen shots from the cams several show the people > moving around > The best times for seeing the volcanic activity has been around dawn a= nd=20 > dusk > Iclandic time. its been realling interesting seeing the changes in=20 > activity over the > last 2 weeks, as some vents die off and new fissures open up >=20 > cheers > Dave N > Sydney >=20 > PS Jon I tried that other link you posted below it didnt show the ca= m :( > the page opens but the cam never seems to be working >=20 >=20 > At 08:43 PM 4/3/2010 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi, > >Thouse are cars and airplains of all types. > >Here is a diffrent web cam. > > > >http://www.vodafone.is/eldgos > > > >There is a lot of traffic there. > > > >Regards, > >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 15:59:46 -0700 See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: Canie canie@........... Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:03:47 -0700 Felt really well in Long Beach - a very long time of rolling thru all this basin fill... Canie At 03:59 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: >See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 23:07:56 +0000 Hi, This earthquake had a trigger event. MAP 3.3 2010/04/04 22:34:48 32.184 -115.287 0.2 BAJA CALIFORNIA, MEXICO Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-04-04 at 15:59 -0700, Stephen Hammond wrote: > See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 23:17:08 +0000 Hi, EMSC has just upgraded this earthquake to Mw7.0. http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D163296 Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-04-04 at 16:03 -0700, Canie wrote: > Felt really well in Long Beach - a very long time of rolling thru all=20 > this basin fill... >=20 > Canie >=20 > At 03:59 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: > >See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 16:25:45 -0700 Has anybody got any details on Brawley? They just had a 5.1 almost under = the city.=20 Steve PSN Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:08 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! Hi, This earthquake had a trigger event. MAP 3.3 2010/04/04 22:34:48 32.184 -115.287 0.2 BAJA CALIFORNIA, MEXICO Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-04-04 at 15:59 -0700, Stephen Hammond wrote: > See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: Alan adaggett@....... Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:28:40 -0700 CgpTdGVwaGVuIEhhbW1vbmQgPHNoYW1tb24xQGl4Lm5ldGNvbS5jb20+IHdyb3RlOgoKPlNlZSB1 c2dzIHNpdGUtLSBhYm91dCAyMjo0MiBVVEMgNC80LzEwCj4KPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPgo+UHVibGljIFNlaXNtaWMg TmV0d29yayBNYWlsaW5nIExpc3QgKFBTTi1MKQo+Cj5UbyBsZWF2ZSB0aGlzIGxpc3QgZW1haWwg UFNOLUwtUkVRVUVTVEBTRUlTTUlDTkVULkNPTSB3aXRoIAo+dGhlIGJvZHkgb2YgdGhlIG1lc3Nh Z2UgKGZpcnN0IGxpbmUgb25seSk6IHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlCj5TZWUgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5zZWlzbWlj bmV0LmNvbS9tYWlsbGlzdC5odG1sIGZvciBtb3JlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLgo+Cg== __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 16:48:37 -0700 http://pw2.netcom.com/~shammon1/recent.htm (updates each 15-min.) My seismograph is still recording ringing from this event. This was felt strongly in Palm Desert per an iReport report on CNN. A lot of stuff off = the shelves in the WalMart.=20 Steve =20 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:17 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! Hi, EMSC has just upgraded this earthquake to Mw7.0. http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D16329= 6 Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-04-04 at 16:03 -0700, Canie wrote: > Felt really well in Long Beach - a very long time of rolling thru all=20 > this basin fill... >=20 > Canie >=20 > At 03:59 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: > >See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: Canie canie@........... Date: Sun, 04 Apr 2010 16:58:10 -0700 The news was just saying 7.2 - Lucy Jones of Caltech - Also there were several smaller quakes in the area over the last week or 2.. Canie At 04:17 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: >Hi, > >EMSC has just upgraded this earthquake to Mw7.0. > >http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D163296 > >Regards, >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >On sun, 2010-04-04 at 16:03 -0700, Canie wrote: > > Felt really well in Long Beach - a very long time of rolling thru all > > this basin fill... > > > > Canie > > > > At 03:59 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: > > >See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 > > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: "Kareem J. Lanier" system98765@............. Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 20:02:21 -0700 We felt one of those quakes here in Elk Grove, California (914 km) from = the epicenter. I'm assuming the M7.2 event - I cant imagine feeling a M4 = from the Geysers area up this far... -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Canie Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:58 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! The news was just saying 7.2 - Lucy Jones of Caltech - Also there were several smaller quakes in the area over the last week or = 2.. Canie At 04:17 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: >Hi, > >EMSC has just upgraded this earthquake to Mw7.0. > >http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D1632= 96 > >Regards, >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >On sun, 2010-04-04 at 16:03 -0700, Canie wrote: > > Felt really well in Long Beach - a very long time of rolling thru = all > > this basin fill... > > > > Canie > > > > At 03:59 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: > > >See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 > > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: "Kareem J. Lanier" system98765@............. Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 20:02:49 -0700 Still ringing? -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Stephen Hammond Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:49 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: 6.9 Baja !!!! http://pw2.netcom.com/~shammon1/recent.htm (updates each 15-min.) My seismograph is still recording ringing from this event. This was felt strongly in Palm Desert per an iReport report on CNN. A lot of stuff off = the shelves in the WalMart.=20 Steve =20 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:17 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! Hi, EMSC has just upgraded this earthquake to Mw7.0. http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D16329= 6 Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-04-04 at 16:03 -0700, Canie wrote: > Felt really well in Long Beach - a very long time of rolling thru all=20 > this basin fill... >=20 > Canie >=20 > At 03:59 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: > >See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: "Kareem J. Lanier" system98765@............. Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 22:02:51 -0700 The videos now starting to show up on Youtube are pretty interesting. = Most of them are vids of sloshing pools. It's interesting to note that in = most of them videos, you will see one end of the pool showing where the water spilled over and in some cases there was a lot of water. I saw where one aptment complex had at least a couple of inches of water still on the = first floor level units from the swimming pool.=20 If you do a search for "Mexicali quake" or "sismo Mexicali" for Today, you'll get the results. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Stephen Hammond Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:49 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: 6.9 Baja !!!! http://pw2.netcom.com/~shammon1/recent.htm (updates each 15-min.) My seismograph is still recording ringing from this event. This was felt strongly in Palm Desert per an iReport report on CNN. A lot of stuff off = the shelves in the WalMart.=20 Steve =20 -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:17 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! Hi, EMSC has just upgraded this earthquake to Mw7.0. http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D16329= 6 Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-04-04 at 16:03 -0700, Canie wrote: > Felt really well in Long Beach - a very long time of rolling thru all=20 > this basin fill... >=20 > Canie >=20 > At 03:59 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: > >See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: 6.9 Baja !!!! From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:47:21 +0000 Hi all, There is a risk of mag 5.9 to 6.7 aftershock in the area where the Mw7.2 earthquake did happen. This is within a 72 hour time period. I can see that based on the smaller aftershocks that have been happening in the fault where the main earthquake did happen. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-04-04 at 22:02 -0700, Kareem J. Lanier wrote: > The videos now starting to show up on Youtube are pretty interesting. Mos= t > of them are vids of sloshing pools. It's interesting to note that in most= of > them videos, you will see one end of the pool showing where the water > spilled over and in some cases there was a lot of water. I saw where one > aptment complex had at least a couple of inches of water still on the fir= st > floor level units from the swimming pool.=20 > If you do a search for "Mexicali quake" or "sismo Mexicali" for Today, > you'll get the results. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of Stephen Hammond > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:49 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: RE: 6.9 Baja !!!! >=20 > http://pw2.netcom.com/~shammon1/recent.htm (updates each 15-min.) My > seismograph is still recording ringing from this event. This was felt > strongly in Palm Desert per an iReport report on CNN. A lot of stuff off = the > shelves in the WalMart.=20 > Steve =20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 4:17 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: 6.9 Baja !!!! >=20 > Hi, >=20 > EMSC has just upgraded this earthquake to Mw7.0. >=20 > http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D16329= 6 >=20 > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > On sun, 2010-04-04 at 16:03 -0700, Canie wrote: > > Felt really well in Long Beach - a very long time of rolling thru all=20 > > this basin fill... > >=20 > > Canie > >=20 > > At 03:59 PM 4/4/2010, you wrote: > > >See usgs site-- about 22:42 UTC 4/4/10 > > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > > > > > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Update to my web page From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 08:46:55 +0000 Hi all, I am going to update my web page with all your plots. I am going to remove all dead links and inactive plots. Anyone how wants to get added to that web page send me a email with information on the web page, or just a link. This web page get a lot of traffic when big things happen! :-) Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Update to my web page From: JToledo@............. Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 07:54:48 -0600 Hi. Jon. tnx for all the information that daily we receive fron you and the netw= ork, specially since we have had seismic activity here in Guatemala . best wishes, tnx again and keep my address for future referals best regards |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| | F.Jose Toledo | CONRED | = | | Unidad: OFICIAL DE MONITOREO | Celular: 5-2012109 | E-mail: = | | jtoledo@............. = | | [ Direcci=F3n: Ave. Hincapi=E9 21-72 Zona 13 Tel:2324-0800 Ext= .. | | 1116][Guatemala, Guatemala 01013 Guatemala C.A. ] = | |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| = J=F3n Fr=EDmann = = Sent by: = To psn-l-request@web PSN-Postlist tronics.com = cc = Subj= ect 06/04/2010 02:46 Update to my web page = a.m. = = = Please respond to = psn-l@........... = com = = = Hi all, I am going to update my web page with all your plots. I am going to remove all dead links and inactive plots. Anyone how wants to get added= to that web page send me a email with information on the web page, or just a link. This web page get a lot of traffic when big things happen! :-) Regards, -- J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) = __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: 7.8 Sumatra, Indonesia From: "Glenn Durden" alfa@.................. Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2010 09:06:52 +1000 Finally got my first real earthquake measured on my bidirectional SG seismometer. At a distance of about 6500km / 4000 miles, I'm getting full deflection with waves of about 10 seconds. Nice to know it works. Not so nice to know this earthquake will give tsunami, again. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: xkcd: seismic waves From: Mark Robinson mark.robinson@............... Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:19:22 +1200 http://www.xkcd.com/723/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Real time Display From: Richard Webb dwebb002@............. Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 17:16:33 -0400 Thanks to Gary, Jon and Kay for the advice on getting my seismograms on line. I've set up the real time display on: http://genequake.com/html/seismology.html The site also has some photos of the equipment and vault.. I'm using a Sprengnether Long Period Vertical. I also have two horizontals but they have hinge issues. Dick -- . Richard Webb Raleigh, NC Farr and Webb Family Genealogy site: http://Genequake.com/Genealogy Family and Seismology site: http://Genequake.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Real time Display From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2010 23:13:17 +0000 Hi Richard, This looks good. But before you can send data to Larry website you need to change the name of the channel from channel 2 to something uninque. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2010-04-08 at 17:16 -0400, Richard Webb wrote: > Thanks to Gary, Jon and Kay for the advice on getting my seismograms on=20 > line. I've set up the real time display on: >=20 > http://genequake.com/html/seismology.html >=20 > The site also has some photos of the equipment and vault.. I'm using a=20 > Sprengnether Long Period Vertical. I also have two horizontals but they=20 > have hinge issues. >=20 > Dick >=20 > -- . > Richard Webb > Raleigh, NC >=20 > Farr and Webb Family Genealogy site: http://Genequake.com/Genealogy > Family and Seismology site: http://Genequake.com >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: mistery event From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:18:49 -0700 (PDT) All I was detecting a teleseismic event at about 15:00 UTC. Looking at the live= internet seismic server it appears to be located in the south Pacific area= somewhere=A0 . I don't see it on the USGS site. Anyone know of any event f= itting this description? http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.shtml Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com
All
I was detecting a teleseismic event at about 15:00 UTC. Looking= at the live internet seismic server it appears to be located in the south = Pacific area somewhere  . I don't see it on the USGS site. Anyone know= of any event fitting this description?
http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2= ..shtml

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com
Subject: Re: mistery event From: Mark Robinson mark.robinson@............... Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:42:00 +1200 Barry Lotz wrote: > > All > I was detecting a teleseismic event at about 15:00 UTC. Looking at the > live internet seismic server it appears to be located in the south > Pacific area somewhere . I don't see it on the USGS site. Anyone know > of any event fitting this description? > http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.shtml Red Puma shows a ~mag5 event ~Vanuatu. http://www.seismo.ethz.ch/redpuma/redpuma_ami_list.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: mistery event From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2010 20:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Mark I hadn't used red puma in years. I forgot about them . Thanks. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Thu, 4/8/10, Mark Robinson wrote: From: Mark Robinson Subject: Re: mistery event To: psn-l@.............. Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 8:42 PM Barry Lotz wrote: >=20 > All > I was detecting a teleseismic event at about 15:00 UTC. Looking at the li= ve internet seismic server it appears to be located in the south Pacific ar= ea somewhere=A0 . I don't see it on the USGS site. Anyone know of any event= fitting this description? > http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.shtml Red Puma shows a ~mag5 event ~Vanuatu. http://www.seismo.ethz.ch/redpuma/redpuma_ami_list.html __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Question to Techno-Philes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 11:02:30 -0700 Hello PSN; I have been looking at your noise profiles and begin to wonder about technical specs for amateur hardware. Can any of you tell/show me what the noise profile should look like coming from the ground, through velocity transducer, through anti-alized filtered hardware Through 12 bit A/D into single float raw data display using like Winquake FFT for the following types of data: 0. acceleration inches/second^2 1. Velocity inches/second 2. Displacement inches I invite you to create a representation of your ideas and draw them in paint or whatever program then send it to me as a BMP or JPG or GIF file as an attachment. You do not need to show detailed squiggles just the general profile of what to expect. It seems to me your hardware is overfiltering or your sample rates are wrong. Something does not look right to me in your various noise profiles but I cant put a finger on any of it. Possibly you are converting from other kinds of source data than RAW to make your PSN files. Thanks Ahead of time, for your responses. regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 19:59:52 +0000 Geoff, I am not quite sure that I understand what you are looking for but maybe this will help Take a look at this which talks about the NLNM which is sort of a ideal and impossible model for any one site. As I understand it they chopped up the thing by frequency and them picked the quiets place on earth and made a composite http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node28.html then take a peek at this article about power density functions http://geohazards.cr.usgs.gov/staffweb/mcnamara/PDFweb/Noise_PDFs.html and then take a look at what a PDF looks like for my station BRU2. The article below is very good and has some good examples of what you can see on a PDF plot. http://www.iris.edu/servlet/quackquery/pdfDrill.do?station=BRU2&yyyyDDD=2010.032&length=31&location=30&channel=HHZ&network=PA For all this to be done the station need to be calibrated so that counts or volts or whatever can be converted to real ground motion. But is give you a very good idea of how a whole station is working. Some station PDF are very interesting. It is also easy to see daily and seasonal variation at a station. Most sites will be between the two gray lines, the high noise and low noise models. I the PDF of my station BRU2 you can see that between 1 Hz and 10 hz the there is a high (light blue) probability that it is one of two noise levels. Mostly likely one is daytime and one is night time, in the of the frequencies my station is mostly likely in a known place. Any instrument aberation would show up on a PDF. We would all like a station like ISCO in an abandoned mine tunnel station in Idaho Springs CO I hope this helps a little. Angel On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 11:02 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello PSN; > > I have been looking at your noise profiles and begin to wonder > about technical specs for amateur hardware. > > Can any of you tell/show me what the noise profile > should look like coming from the ground, through > velocity transducer, through anti-alized filtered hardware > Through 12 bit A/D into single float raw data display using > like Winquake FFT for the following types of data: > > 0. acceleration inches/second^2 > 1. Velocity inches/second > 2. Displacement inches > > I invite you to create a representation of your > ideas and draw them in paint or whatever program > then send it to me as a BMP or JPG or GIF file > as an attachment. > > You do not need to show detailed squiggles just > the general profile of what to expect. > > It seems to me your hardware is overfiltering > or your sample rates are wrong. Something > does not look right to me in your various > noise profiles but I cant put a finger on > any of it. Possibly you are converting from > other kinds of source data than RAW to make > your PSN files. > > Thanks Ahead of time, for your responses. > regards, > geoff > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 14:09:22 -0700 I hate to say this.... but some of this stuff really quacks me up :-) I find it hard to translate this Montage of scientific data into what I want to see. GIVEN: If you take a 1Hz geophone and plant it in a relatively quiet place free from human artifacts, you run the signal straight through filtering out everything above 1/2 the sample frequency as well as everything greater than 40 seconds of period. You amplify the signal until noise is like +/- two counts in a twelve or more bit A/D converter. Then you record this Z channel data as RAW single floating point 4 byte data. Say its on the Colorado plateau??(spelling unsure) OR Arizona basin range area ?? I should think such results would be regional in nature. Help a person know if their system is functioning correctly. After making such a data base of regional noise profiles you should not need fancy equipment to calibrate your system with meaningful values. FIND: The frequency profile exhibited from a FFT ENERGY (FREQ(Y)/TIME(X))display or waterfall ( three dimensional (time)Y/energy(MAG)/frequency (X)) display Communicating in English with people trained Outside your own discipline is very difficult since basically you do not speak the same language or have the same meaning given the very same words. I am just hoping you can understand me here. But you are on the right track. Thanks, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:59 PM Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes > Geoff, > > I am not quite sure that I understand what you are looking for but maybe > this will help > > Take a look at this which talks about the NLNM which is sort of a ideal > and impossible model for any one site. As I understand it they chopped > up the thing by frequency and them picked the quiets place on earth and > made a composite > > http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node28.html > > then take a peek at this article about power density functions > > http://geohazards.cr.usgs.gov/staffweb/mcnamara/PDFweb/Noise_PDFs.html > > and then take a look at what a PDF looks like for my station BRU2. The > article below is very good and has some good examples of what you can > see on a PDF plot. > > http://www.iris.edu/servlet/quackquery/pdfDrill.do?station=BRU2&yyyyDDD=2010.032&length=31&location=30&channel=HHZ&network=PA > > For all this to be done the station need to be calibrated so that counts > or volts or whatever can be converted to real ground motion. But is > give you a very good idea of how a whole station is working. Some > station PDF are very interesting. It is also easy to see daily and > seasonal variation at a station. Most sites will be between the two > gray lines, the high noise and low noise models. > > I the PDF of my station BRU2 you can see that between 1 Hz and 10 hz the > there is a high (light blue) probability that it is one of two noise > levels. Mostly likely one is daytime and one is night time, in the of > the frequencies my station is mostly likely in a known place. > > Any instrument aberation would show up on a PDF. > > We would all like a station like ISCO in an abandoned mine tunnel > station in Idaho Springs CO > > I hope this helps a little. > > Angel > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 11:02 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: >> Hello PSN; >> >> I have been looking at your noise profiles and begin to wonder >> about technical specs for amateur hardware. >> >> Can any of you tell/show me what the noise profile >> should look like coming from the ground, through >> velocity transducer, through anti-alized filtered hardware >> Through 12 bit A/D into single float raw data display using >> like Winquake FFT for the following types of data: >> >> 0. acceleration inches/second^2 >> 1. Velocity inches/second >> 2. Displacement inches >> >> I invite you to create a representation of your >> ideas and draw them in paint or whatever program >> then send it to me as a BMP or JPG or GIF file >> as an attachment. >> >> You do not need to show detailed squiggles just >> the general profile of what to expect. >> >> It seems to me your hardware is overfiltering >> or your sample rates are wrong. Something >> does not look right to me in your various >> noise profiles but I cant put a finger on >> any of it. Possibly you are converting from >> other kinds of source data than RAW to make >> your PSN files. >> >> Thanks Ahead of time, for your responses. >> regards, >> geoff >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 22:21:52 +0000 Geoff, If you placed your calibrated 1 hz sensor, amp, digitizer combination at the quietest place in the world the PDF point at 1 Hz would be on the lower gray line, the low noise line. Recorded earthquake or any ground motion would lift of the point towards the high noise line. The digitizer bits and all that fancy stuff only affects the how accurate the measurement was. The point of the PDF is exactly to be able to tell as you put it "Help a person know if their system is functioning correctly." without all the scientific mumbo jumbo. Once it is setup you can at a glance see if a station is ok across the entire frequency range. For the GSN and the ANSS a live person looks at the PDFs every day and in about 30 minutes knows the state of the hundreds of stations in the system. I think that the scary word for a lot of folks in all of this is the word "calibrated". All I mean by calibration is that you could relate counts or volts to displacements. x volts from the sensor = x nanometers of ground motion. You can do a PDF on an uncalibrated station you just can't relate it to the noise models. You could though easily see daily and seasonal variations and you could at a glance see if your station was working like it had been working in the past. I am real dunce when it comes to a lot of this scientific stuff but it would hard to make seeing if your system was working correctly much simpler. Especially when all I do is send the raw data to IRIS and they do it for me. Saludos, Angel On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 14:09 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > I hate to say this.... but some of this stuff > really quacks me up :-) > > I find it hard to translate this Montage of scientific data > into what I want to see. > > GIVEN: > If you take a 1Hz geophone and plant it in a > relatively quiet place free from human artifacts, > you run the signal straight through filtering > out everything above 1/2 the sample frequency > as well as everything greater than 40 seconds of period. > You amplify the signal until noise is like +/- two counts > in a twelve or more bit A/D converter. > Then you record this Z channel data as RAW > single floating point 4 byte data. > Say its on the Colorado plateau??(spelling unsure) > OR Arizona basin range area ?? > > I should think such results would be regional in nature. > Help a person know if their system is functioning correctly. > After making such a data base of regional noise profiles > you should not need fancy equipment to calibrate your system > with meaningful values. > > FIND: > The frequency profile exhibited from a FFT > ENERGY (FREQ(Y)/TIME(X))display or > waterfall ( three dimensional (time)Y/energy(MAG)/frequency (X)) display > > Communicating in English with people trained Outside > your own discipline is very difficult since basically > you do not speak the same language or have the same > meaning given the very same words. > > I am just hoping you can understand me here. > > But you are on the right track. > > Thanks, > geoff > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sismos" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:59 PM > Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes > > > > Geoff, > > > > I am not quite sure that I understand what you are looking for but maybe > > this will help > > > > Take a look at this which talks about the NLNM which is sort of a ideal > > and impossible model for any one site. As I understand it they chopped > > up the thing by frequency and them picked the quiets place on earth and > > made a composite > > > > http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node28.html > > > > then take a peek at this article about power density functions > > > > http://geohazards.cr.usgs.gov/staffweb/mcnamara/PDFweb/Noise_PDFs.html > > > > and then take a look at what a PDF looks like for my station BRU2. The > > article below is very good and has some good examples of what you can > > see on a PDF plot. > > > > http://www.iris.edu/servlet/quackquery/pdfDrill.do?station=BRU2&yyyyDDD=2010.032&length=31&location=30&channel=HHZ&network=PA > > > > For all this to be done the station need to be calibrated so that counts > > or volts or whatever can be converted to real ground motion. But is > > give you a very good idea of how a whole station is working. Some > > station PDF are very interesting. It is also easy to see daily and > > seasonal variation at a station. Most sites will be between the two > > gray lines, the high noise and low noise models. > > > > I the PDF of my station BRU2 you can see that between 1 Hz and 10 hz the > > there is a high (light blue) probability that it is one of two noise > > levels. Mostly likely one is daytime and one is night time, in the of > > the frequencies my station is mostly likely in a known place. > > > > Any instrument aberation would show up on a PDF. > > > > We would all like a station like ISCO in an abandoned mine tunnel > > station in Idaho Springs CO > > > > I hope this helps a little. > > > > Angel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 11:02 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > >> Hello PSN; > >> > >> I have been looking at your noise profiles and begin to wonder > >> about technical specs for amateur hardware. > >> > >> Can any of you tell/show me what the noise profile > >> should look like coming from the ground, through > >> velocity transducer, through anti-alized filtered hardware > >> Through 12 bit A/D into single float raw data display using > >> like Winquake FFT for the following types of data: > >> > >> 0. acceleration inches/second^2 > >> 1. Velocity inches/second > >> 2. Displacement inches > >> > >> I invite you to create a representation of your > >> ideas and draw them in paint or whatever program > >> then send it to me as a BMP or JPG or GIF file > >> as an attachment. > >> > >> You do not need to show detailed squiggles just > >> the general profile of what to expect. > >> > >> It seems to me your hardware is overfiltering > >> or your sample rates are wrong. Something > >> does not look right to me in your various > >> noise profiles but I cant put a finger on > >> any of it. Possibly you are converting from > >> other kinds of source data than RAW to make > >> your PSN files. > >> > >> Thanks Ahead of time, for your responses. > >> regards, > >> geoff > >> > >> __________________________________________________________ > >> > >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >> > >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >> > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 16:52:52 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 3:21 PM Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes > Geoff, > > If you placed your calibrated 1 hz sensor, amp, digitizer combination at > the quietest place in the world the PDF point at 1 Hz would be on the > lower gray line, the low noise line. Recorded earthquake or any ground > motion would lift of the point towards the high noise line. The > digitizer bits and all that fancy stuff only affects the how accurate > the measurement was. No NO, you place your uncalibrated system wherever then you operate and adjust your system for only +/- 2 counts of noise. Then you compare the results with a pre established FREQUENCY baseline to see if everything is alright or even about right. No fancy meddling with stuff needed for the armature except calibration of time to UTC...at least as close as possible. *************** NOTE ********************************* To me PDF is a Windows "document" file extension and its difficult for me to see it any other way. Unless you are a real geophysics major, it has little other meaning. *************** END NOTE ********************************* > > The point of the PDF is exactly to be able to tell as you put it "Help a > person know if their system is functioning correctly." without all the > scientific mumbo jumbo. Once it is setup you can at a glance see if a > station is ok across the entire frequency range. For the GSN and the > ANSS a live person looks at the PDFs every day and in about 30 minutes > knows the state of the hundreds of stations in the system. > > I think that the scary word for a lot of folks in all of this is the > word "calibrated". All I mean by calibration is that you could relate > counts or volts to displacements. x volts from the sensor = x > nanometers of ground motion. Calibration is a whole other field of science called metrology, so we are really not able to do such a thing since it requires test equipment 10X better then anything it is measuring to give meaning to. I am always frustrated with civilians who try to hire a technician and what they really want is an electrician who makes 10X the money of a technician. Then these civvies have an unreasonable expectation that you can work miracles with out the proper test equipment or books or training to do what they really want you to do. A technician does not usually carry 100,000 dollars in test equipment he relies upon his industry to supply everything but his man power to do whatever. Amateurs are not even expected to be a technician which ( A technician ) is the lowest of the low in the field of science. We must talk layman here and not like experts or I will never be able to understand you. > > You can do a PDF on an uncalibrated station you just can't relate it to > the noise models. You could though easily see daily and seasonal > variations and you could at a glance see if your station was working > like it had been working in the past. > > I am real dunce when it comes to a lot of this scientific stuff but it > would hard to make seeing if your system was working correctly much > simpler. Especially when all I do is send the raw data to IRIS and they > do it for me. Are you trying to tell me I can send raw data to IRIS and they can tell me what I need to do to make my system right within my abilities ?? :-) Please....tell me how to do this or point me to the exact right website ? Best regards, geoff > > Saludos, > > Angel > > > > On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 14:09 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: >> I hate to say this.... but some of this stuff >> really quacks me up :-) >> >> I find it hard to translate this Montage of scientific data >> into what I want to see. >> >> GIVEN: >> If you take a 1Hz geophone and plant it in a >> relatively quiet place free from human artifacts, >> you run the signal straight through filtering >> out everything above 1/2 the sample frequency >> as well as everything greater than 40 seconds of period. >> You amplify the signal until noise is like +/- two counts >> in a twelve or more bit A/D converter. >> Then you record this Z channel data as RAW >> single floating point 4 byte data. >> Say its on the Colorado plateau??(spelling unsure) >> OR Arizona basin range area ?? >> >> I should think such results would be regional in nature. >> Help a person know if their system is functioning correctly. >> After making such a data base of regional noise profiles >> you should not need fancy equipment to calibrate your system >> with meaningful values. >> >> FIND: >> The frequency profile exhibited from a FFT >> ENERGY (FREQ(Y)/TIME(X))display or >> waterfall ( three dimensional (time)Y/energy(MAG)/frequency (X)) display >> >> Communicating in English with people trained Outside >> your own discipline is very difficult since basically >> you do not speak the same language or have the same >> meaning given the very same words. >> >> I am just hoping you can understand me here. >> >> But you are on the right track. >> >> Thanks, >> geoff >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "sismos" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:59 PM >> Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes >> >> >> > Geoff, >> > >> > I am not quite sure that I understand what you are looking for but maybe >> > this will help >> > >> > Take a look at this which talks about the NLNM which is sort of a ideal >> > and impossible model for any one site. As I understand it they chopped >> > up the thing by frequency and them picked the quiets place on earth and >> > made a composite >> > >> > http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node28.html >> > >> > then take a peek at this article about power density functions >> > >> > http://geohazards.cr.usgs.gov/staffweb/mcnamara/PDFweb/Noise_PDFs.html >> > >> > and then take a look at what a PDF looks like for my station BRU2. The >> > article below is very good and has some good examples of what you can >> > see on a PDF plot. >> > >> > http://www.iris.edu/servlet/quackquery/pdfDrill.do?station=BRU2&yyyyDDD=2010.032&length=31&location=30&channel=HHZ&network=PA >> > >> > For all this to be done the station need to be calibrated so that counts >> > or volts or whatever can be converted to real ground motion. But is >> > give you a very good idea of how a whole station is working. Some >> > station PDF are very interesting. It is also easy to see daily and >> > seasonal variation at a station. Most sites will be between the two >> > gray lines, the high noise and low noise models. >> > >> > I the PDF of my station BRU2 you can see that between 1 Hz and 10 hz the >> > there is a high (light blue) probability that it is one of two noise >> > levels. Mostly likely one is daytime and one is night time, in the of >> > the frequencies my station is mostly likely in a known place. >> > >> > Any instrument aberation would show up on a PDF. >> > >> > We would all like a station like ISCO in an abandoned mine tunnel >> > station in Idaho Springs CO >> > >> > I hope this helps a little. >> > >> > Angel >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 11:02 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: >> >> Hello PSN; >> >> >> >> I have been looking at your noise profiles and begin to wonder >> >> about technical specs for amateur hardware. >> >> >> >> Can any of you tell/show me what the noise profile >> >> should look like coming from the ground, through >> >> velocity transducer, through anti-alized filtered hardware >> >> Through 12 bit A/D into single float raw data display using >> >> like Winquake FFT for the following types of data: >> >> >> >> 0. acceleration inches/second^2 >> >> 1. Velocity inches/second >> >> 2. Displacement inches >> >> >> >> I invite you to create a representation of your >> >> ideas and draw them in paint or whatever program >> >> then send it to me as a BMP or JPG or GIF file >> >> as an attachment. >> >> >> >> You do not need to show detailed squiggles just >> >> the general profile of what to expect. >> >> >> >> It seems to me your hardware is overfiltering >> >> or your sample rates are wrong. Something >> >> does not look right to me in your various >> >> noise profiles but I cant put a finger on >> >> any of it. Possibly you are converting from >> >> other kinds of source data than RAW to make >> >> your PSN files. >> >> >> >> Thanks Ahead of time, for your responses. >> >> regards, >> >> geoff >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> >> >> > >> > >> > __________________________________________________________ >> > >> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> > >> > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 02:46:24 +0000 Hi Geoff, I have to admit you're a tough one. About metrology; Calibrating a thermometer to an accuracy of +/- 1 degree so you can measure the temp of baby formula can be done in most any kitchen and no one can argue that it is not calibrated. Calibrating seismographs is much the same, it just does not have to be that accurate. A few parts per thousand is good enough and that is within the reach most anyone that can build a home seismometer. I was calibrating a sensor during a class and sweating the decimals and the instructor said to calm down, +/- 5% was fine. He asked me to image setting off a firecracker at one end of a pile of construction ruble and sensing it at the other end with a very accurate sensor and one that was not so accurate and trying to say much about the pile of ruble or nature of the firecracker with either sensor. About amateurs; Being an amateur has very little if anything to do with the quality of what is being done. In it's simplest context it just means you don't get paid for doing what you do. Many amateur do great work and in some cases better work than paid professional. Paid professional and scientist have to be concerned about the bottom line and us amateurs can ignore that reality. I think you would be surprised that many amateurs are building seismometers that are just as good as what the professionals build, and better than some, and I will add if you can calibrate and keep the temperature constant then the data from any seismometer is good data. About IRIS Yes, you can send raw data to IRIS along with the calibration file and they will make a power density function display for you, but you will need the calibration file. IRIS knows nothing about your seismometer and the calibration file allows them not to care. That's what the calibration file is about, not caring about the sensor and it's associated electronics. Geoff, I have no doubts that calibrating a seismograph is well within your abilities. I will add that if all you care about is picking phases (P and S and their variants) then calibration is not an issue. And for small local earthquakes you can use the duration or coda to determine magnitude (Mc or Md) so you have no need for calibration, it does not matter. And if you had a bunch of sensors like that and some decent timestamping of the data then you could locate epicenters. Regards, Angel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2010 22:09:32 -0700 Thank you much sismos/Angel, More questions to ask. The specs for my geophone is like an ideal 2.99V/IN/SEC Is that like ( 117.7V/M/sec) or (1.177V/cm/SEC). [which seems more like 1.5V/IN/SEC when I look at it myself] through the filtered electronics. Then I amplify like X1025 (60Dbv) Then into a 12bit A/D running at +/- 2.045 Volts. This means about 1023 count == output of 1.023Volts Which is (0.001V/count)/1025 or 0.975 microvolts per count on the geophone output which is possibly 114.7micrometers/sec of motion ? Is this the kind of information they want ? The order goes something like this: 1. Geophone input: 1uM/sec 2. Geophone output: 117.7 uV 3. Amplifier Input: 117.7 uV 4. Amplifier Output: 120.7 mV 5. Counts out of A/D: +120 Does any of this sound right ? Does this come anywhere close to calibration ideas ? The only way I know how to calibrate or evaluate the sensitivity is to go to the USGS website for Theoretical values relating to a specific EQ then translating the numbers backward through the system to match the theoretical intensity of the EQ as it passed through my system at my location. Might this be a proper way to look at my own system ?? Right now for regional quakes Winquake gives me a very good idea of the actual Ml (Richter magnitude). Might I use the correctional numbers for Winquake to enhance the accuracy and precision of my sensor. What I really mean is this, if I can achieve zero correction for correct ML readings, then my calibration numbers must be right ? Then I may send this number to IRIS with my data ?? Do I need to bandpass filter the read data at 1Hz before applying the numbers to the data since the USGS states these numbers to be at 1Hz? Best regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes > Hi Geoff, > > I have to admit you're a tough one. > > > About metrology; > > Calibrating a thermometer to an accuracy of +/- 1 degree so you can > measure the temp of baby formula can be done in most any kitchen and no > one can argue that it is not calibrated. > > Calibrating seismographs is much the same, it just does not have to be > that accurate. A few parts per thousand is good enough and that is > within the reach most anyone that can build a home seismometer. I was > calibrating a sensor during a class and sweating the decimals and the > instructor said to calm down, +/- 5% was fine. > > He asked me to image setting off a firecracker at one end of a pile of > construction ruble and sensing it at the other end with a very accurate > sensor and one that was not so accurate and trying to say much about the > pile of ruble or nature of the firecracker with either sensor. > > About amateurs; > > Being an amateur has very little if anything to do with the quality of > what is being done. In it's simplest context it just means you don't get > paid for doing what you do. Many amateur do great work and in some cases > better work than paid professional. Paid professional and scientist > have to be concerned about the bottom line and us amateurs can ignore > that reality. I think you would be surprised that many amateurs are > building seismometers that are just as good as what the professionals > build, and better than some, and I will add if you can calibrate and > keep the temperature constant then the data from any seismometer is good > data. > > About IRIS > > Yes, you can send raw data to IRIS along with the calibration file and > they will make a power density function display for you, but you will > need the calibration file. IRIS knows nothing about your seismometer > and the calibration file allows them not to care. That's what the > calibration file is about, not caring about the sensor and it's > associated electronics. > > Geoff, I have no doubts that calibrating a seismograph is well within > your abilities. I will add that if all you care about is picking phases > (P and S and their variants) then calibration is not an issue. And for > small local earthquakes you can use the duration or coda to determine > magnitude (Mc or Md) so you have no need for calibration, it does not > matter. And if you had a bunch of sensors like that and some decent > timestamping of the data then you could locate epicenters. > > Regards, > > Angel > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 11:55:05 +0000 Geoff, That is exactly what you need to make a calibration file for your geophone. I few years ago I migrated to a suite of sismic analysis programs called Seisan, which is free and freely available. It includes a program called resp.exe. find it at ftp://190.14.211.35/ with username "unam" and password "unam". When you run it you will be prompted for all the items you listed and a few you didn't list. Running it is easy what you will have at the end of the process is a calibration file in one of several formats. Go for the GSE2 PAZ (poles and zeros) The begged question is what do you do with a GSE2 PAZ response file once you have it. Let's not go there yet. What follows is cut and pasted from the Seisan manual. Saludos, Angel This roughly how it works: Type RESP to start the program. You will then get a series of questions as indicated below in upper case letters. All input is format free. A sample run is shown below. CHOSE OUTPUT FORMAT: 0: NO OUTPUT FILE 1: SEISAN FAP 2: SEISAN PAZ 3: GSE2 FAP 4: GSE2 PAZ Answer with 0-4, options 1-4 will create respective response files in selected format, option 0 will only calculate and show the response on the screen. SEISAN PAZ can only be used if number of poles and number of zeros are less than 38. If more are input, a table will be generated automatically in FAP format. TYPE OF SENSOR: 1: NONE 2: SEISMOMETER 3: ACCELEROMETER Answer with 1, 2 or 3. Number 1 is used when only calculation of filters or amplifiers are desired, 2 is a standard velocity transducer and 3 a standard accelerometer. If a seismic sensor is used, you will get additional questions on the constants of the sensor. If a seismometer is chosen, the following questions must be answered: SEISMOMETER NATURAL PERIOD ? This is measured in seconds. For most short period systems the value would be 1.0 second. SEISMOMETER DAMPING RATIO ? The damping ratio should ideally be 0.7. This depends on the damping resistance. For both the seismometer and accelerometer, the following question is given: SENSOR LOADED GENERATOR CONSTANT (V/M/S OR V/G) ? This is the generator constant of the sensor in terms of volt per unit of of ground motion (meter/second or g). It is important to note that this is the loaded constant, which means the effective output of the sensor taking into account amplifier input and damping resistances. Now comes questions about amplifier, filter and recording unit. RECORDING MEDIA GAIN (COUNT/V OR M/V) ? If you have a recording media, the gain can be given here, otherwise just enter 1.0 If the output format is GSE, the response is always calculated in displacement units, while for SEISAN output and seismometer or accelerometer, the following options appear: TYPE OF RESPONSE: 1: DISPLACEMENT 2: VELOCITY 3: ACCELERATION Normally for a seismometer, one wants to calculate the displacement response and for an accelerometer, the acceleration response. However it might sometimes be interesting to look at e.g. the velocity response for a seismometer (after all, the seismometer is normally a velocity transducer !!). Enter the appropriate number. AMPLIFIER GAIN (DB) ? This is the amplifier gain in dB. Since this question is only asked once, this gain must include gain of all units except the recorder (asked below). This could e.g. include gain of the VCO system. NUMBER OF FILTERS (0-10), RETURN FOR NONE ? Up to 10 filters can be specified. If you answer 0, no filters are used and no more questions on filters will appear. Otherwise one line of input must be given for each filter as follows: FREQUENCY AND NUMBER OF POLES FOR EACH FILTER, POLES NEGATIVE FOR HIGH PASS Each line requires two numbers, the corner frequency of the filter and the number of poles. A high pass filter is given by letting number of poles be negative. It is not always easy to know whether a filter is e.g. one 2 pole or two 1 pole filters, the user needs to experiment with this. FILE NAME FOR FILE WITH POLES AND ZEROS, RETURN FOR NO FILE Here a file with poles and zeros can be entered. If seismometer constants have been chosen above, the values calculated with poles and zeros are multiplied with the values previously calculated. The free format file contains: 1. line: NP: Number of poles, NZ: Number of zeros, Norm: Normalization constant Following NP lines contain one pair each of real and imaginary poles Following NZ lines contain one pair each of real and imaginary zeros NOTE: The unit of frequency is radian/s so if in Hz, multiply with $ 2 \pi$ and normalization constant in $ radian= (normalization constant in Hz) 2\pi^{(number of poles-number of zeroes)}$. The next 2 options are only shown if the output file is selected to be FAP: FILE NAME FOR TABULATED VALUES, RETURN FOR NO FILE Here a file with tabulated values are entered. If seismometer constants or poles and zeros have been chosen above, the tabulated values will be interpolated and multiplied with the values previously calculated for from above. The free format file contains: 1. line: N: Number of tabulated values, Norm: Normalization constant Following N lines contain one each frequancy, amplitude and phase(deg) GIVE FILE NAME FOR MEASURED VALUES, RETURN FOR NONE Give file name for measured values. In most cases you have none so just make a return. The format of the input file is as follows: frequency, amplitude, phase frequency, amplitude, phase etc. e.g. 0.2,0.7,200 0.7,0.8,100 10.0,0.1,33 The file has no blank lines and can contain up to 60 data sets. It is important to note that the amplitude values should be NORMALIZED at 1.0 Hz. Now there is no more input to the response parameters, and the output is: GAIN FACTOR AT 1.0 HZ: 12345.6 This is the gain of the system at 1.0 Hz and is also the value for normalizing the response curve, that is, all calculated values are divided by this number. There is no unit for gain of an amplifier and for displacement response using a seismometer and drum recording. If the recording is digital, the unit would be counts/meter and for a velocity response counts/meter/second etc. If a file with poles and zeros is used without any other information, the normalization constant must have the unit of count/m, similar for the tabulated input. Further output is given in a file called resp.out, see Table 1 for an example. The response curves (amplitude and phase) are now printed/plotted on the screen. First comes the amplitude response (amplitude in db versus log frequency). By pushing return, the phase response is shown (phase shift (deg) versus log frequency). On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 22:09 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > Thank you much sismos/Angel, > > More questions to ask. > > The specs for my geophone is like an ideal 2.99V/IN/SEC > Is that like ( 117.7V/M/sec) or (1.177V/cm/SEC). > [which seems more like 1.5V/IN/SEC when I look at it myself] > through the filtered electronics. Then I amplify like X1025 (60Dbv) > Then into a 12bit A/D running at +/- 2.045 Volts. > This means about 1023 count == output of 1.023Volts > Which is (0.001V/count)/1025 or 0.975 microvolts per count > on the geophone output which is possibly 114.7micrometers/sec of motion ? > Is this the kind of information they want ? > > The order goes something like this: > 1. Geophone input: 1uM/sec > 2. Geophone output: 117.7 uV > 3. Amplifier Input: 117.7 uV > 4. Amplifier Output: 120.7 mV > 5. Counts out of A/D: +120 > Does any of this sound right ? > Does this come anywhere close to calibration ideas ? > > The only way I know how to calibrate or evaluate the > sensitivity is to go to the USGS website for > Theoretical values relating to a specific EQ then > translating the numbers backward through the system > to match the theoretical intensity of the EQ > as it passed through my system at my location. > Might this be a proper way to look at my > own system ?? > > Right now for regional quakes Winquake gives me a very good idea > of the actual Ml (Richter magnitude). Might I > use the correctional numbers for Winquake to > enhance the accuracy and precision of my sensor. > What I really mean is this, if I can achieve zero correction > for correct ML readings, then my calibration numbers must be right ? > Then I may send this number to IRIS with my data ?? > > Do I need to bandpass filter the read data at 1Hz before applying the numbers > to the data since the USGS states these numbers to be at 1Hz? > > Best regards, > geoff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sismos" > To: > Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 PM > Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes > > > > Hi Geoff, > > > > I have to admit you're a tough one. > > > > > > About metrology; > > > > Calibrating a thermometer to an accuracy of +/- 1 degree so you can > > measure the temp of baby formula can be done in most any kitchen and no > > one can argue that it is not calibrated. > > > > Calibrating seismographs is much the same, it just does not have to be > > that accurate. A few parts per thousand is good enough and that is > > within the reach most anyone that can build a home seismometer. I was > > calibrating a sensor during a class and sweating the decimals and the > > instructor said to calm down, +/- 5% was fine. > > > > He asked me to image setting off a firecracker at one end of a pile of > > construction ruble and sensing it at the other end with a very accurate > > sensor and one that was not so accurate and trying to say much about the > > pile of ruble or nature of the firecracker with either sensor. > > > > About amateurs; > > > > Being an amateur has very little if anything to do with the quality of > > what is being done. In it's simplest context it just means you don't get > > paid for doing what you do. Many amateur do great work and in some cases > > better work than paid professional. Paid professional and scientist > > have to be concerned about the bottom line and us amateurs can ignore > > that reality. I think you would be surprised that many amateurs are > > building seismometers that are just as good as what the professionals > > build, and better than some, and I will add if you can calibrate and > > keep the temperature constant then the data from any seismometer is good > > data. > > > > About IRIS > > > > Yes, you can send raw data to IRIS along with the calibration file and > > they will make a power density function display for you, but you will > > need the calibration file. IRIS knows nothing about your seismometer > > and the calibration file allows them not to care. That's what the > > calibration file is about, not caring about the sensor and it's > > associated electronics. > > > > Geoff, I have no doubts that calibrating a seismograph is well within > > your abilities. I will add that if all you care about is picking phases > > (P and S and their variants) then calibration is not an issue. And for > > small local earthquakes you can use the duration or coda to determine > > magnitude (Mc or Md) so you have no need for calibration, it does not > > matter. And if you had a bunch of sensors like that and some decent > > timestamping of the data then you could locate epicenters. > > > > Regards, > > > > Angel > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 09:27:11 -0700 Hello sismos/Angel; here is first results which i need to play around with. It (response) looks about as I thought it would except this is displacement instead of velocity. Thanks very much for the download and information. This program is written like I used to write in the old QBASIC interpreter which came free in MSDOS. The FTP server did not want me to log on at first but it did finally let me do so. Do I understand displacement gain at 1Hz of 75 million ? Best regards, geoff ********************************* BELOW ********************** SENSOR TYPE: SEISMOMETER RESPONSE: DISPLACEMENT SEISMOMETER PERIOD= 1.000000 GENERATOR CONSTANT= 117.0000 DAMPING RATIO = 0.7071000 AMPLIFIER GAIN(DB)= 60.00000 RECORDING GAIN= 1023.000 FILTER CONSTANTS F= 2.00 POLES= 6 F= 0.14 POLES= 1 F= 0.03 POLES= -2 GAIN AT 1 HZ= 7.5269264E+07 F= 0.0440 T= 22.73 AMP= 0.000706 AMPDB= -63.0 PHAS= -47.2 F= 0.0520 T= 19.23 AMP= 0.001221 AMPDB= -58.3 PHAS= -63.0 F= 0.0620 T= 16.13 AMP= 0.002099 AMPDB= -53.6 PHAS= -78.4 F= 0.0730 T= 13.70 AMP= 0.003389 AMPDB= -49.4 PHAS= -91.8 F= 0.0870 T= 11.49 AMP= 0.005561 AMPDB= -45.1 PHAS= -105.6 F= 0.1000 T= 10.00 AMP= 0.008137 AMPDB= -41.8 PHAS= -116.2 F= 0.1200 T= 8.33 AMP= 0.013185 AMPDB= -37.6 PHAS= -130.0 F= 0.1400 T= 7.14 AMP= 0.019555 AMPDB= -34.2 PHAS= -141.7 F= 0.1700 T= 5.88 AMP= 0.031562 AMPDB= -30.0 PHAS= -156.6 F= 0.2000 T= 5.00 AMP= 0.046435 AMPDB= -26.7 PHAS= -169.4 F= 0.2400 T= 4.17 AMP= 0.070568 AMPDB= -23.0 PHAS= 175.7 F= 0.2800 T= 3.57 AMP= 0.099443 AMPDB= -20.0 PHAS= 162.4 F= 0.3300 T= 3.03 AMP= 0.141918 AMPDB= -17.0 PHAS= 147.3 F= 0.3900 T= 2.56 AMP= 0.201707 AMPDB= -13.9 PHAS= 130.7 F= 0.4600 T= 2.17 AMP= 0.282441 AMPDB= -11.0 PHAS= 112.4 F= 0.5500 T= 1.82 AMP= 0.400375 AMPDB= -8.0 PHAS= 89.9 F= 0.6500 T= 1.54 AMP= 0.543073 AMPDB= -5.3 PHAS= 65.8 F= 0.7700 T= 1.30 AMP= 0.716417 AMPDB= -2.9 PHAS= 37.6 F= 0.9100 T= 1.10 AMP= 0.900193 AMPDB= -0.9 PHAS= 6.0 F= 1.1000 T= 0.91 AMP= 1.091728 AMPDB= 0.8 PHAS= -34.9 F= 1.3000 T= 0.77 AMP= 1.218800 AMPDB= 1.7 PHAS= -75.6 F= 1.5000 T= 0.67 AMP= 1.279626 AMPDB= 2.1 PHAS= -115.6 F= 1.8000 T= 0.56 AMP= 1.201767 AMPDB= 1.6 PHAS= -178.4 F= 2.1000 T= 0.48 AMP= 0.831403 AMPDB= -1.6 PHAS= 118.7 F= 2.5000 T= 0.40 AMP= 0.357166 AMPDB= -8.9 PHAS= 56.5 F= 2.9000 T= 0.34 AMP= 0.151592 AMPDB= -16.4 PHAS= 17.2 F= 3.5000 T= 0.29 AMP= 0.049507 AMPDB= -26.1 PHAS= -20.6 F= 4.1000 T= 0.24 AMP= 0.019203 AMPDB= -34.3 PHAS= -45.7 F= 4.9000 T= 0.20 AMP= 0.006598 AMPDB= -43.6 PHAS= -68.7 F= 5.8000 T= 0.17 AMP= 0.002400 AMPDB= -52.4 PHAS= -86.5 F= 6.8000 T= 0.15 AMP= 0.000924 AMPDB= -60.7 PHAS= -100.6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 4:55 AM Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes > Geoff, > > That is exactly what you need to make a calibration file for your > geophone. I few years ago I migrated to a suite of sismic analysis > programs called Seisan, which is free and freely available. It includes > a program called resp.exe. find it at ftp://190.14.211.35/ with > username "unam" and password "unam". > > When you run it you will be prompted for all the items you listed and a > few you didn't list. Running it is easy what you will have at the end > of the process is a calibration file in one of several formats. Go for > the GSE2 PAZ (poles and zeros) > > The begged question is what do you do with a GSE2 PAZ response file once > you have it. Let's not go there yet. > > What follows is cut and pasted from the Seisan manual. > > Saludos, > > Angel > > > This roughly how it works: > > Type RESP to start the program. You will then get a series of questions > as indicated below in upper case letters. All input is format free. A > sample run is shown below. > > CHOSE OUTPUT FORMAT: 0: NO OUTPUT FILE > 1: SEISAN FAP > 2: SEISAN PAZ > 3: GSE2 FAP > 4: GSE2 PAZ > > Answer with 0-4, options 1-4 will create respective response files in > selected format, option 0 will only calculate and show the response on > the screen. SEISAN PAZ can only be used if number of poles and number of > zeros are less than 38. If more are input, a table will be generated > automatically in FAP format. > > TYPE OF SENSOR: > 1: NONE > 2: SEISMOMETER > 3: ACCELEROMETER > > Answer with 1, 2 or 3. Number 1 is used when only calculation of filters > or amplifiers are desired, 2 is a standard velocity transducer and 3 a > standard accelerometer. If a seismic sensor is used, you will get > additional questions on the constants of the sensor. If a seismometer is > chosen, the following questions must be answered: > > SEISMOMETER NATURAL PERIOD ? > > This is measured in seconds. For most short period systems the value > would be 1.0 second. > > SEISMOMETER DAMPING RATIO ? > > The damping ratio should ideally be 0.7. This depends on the damping > resistance. > > For both the seismometer and accelerometer, the following question is > given: > > SENSOR LOADED GENERATOR CONSTANT (V/M/S OR V/G) ? > > This is the generator constant of the sensor in terms of volt per unit > of of ground motion (meter/second or g). It is important to note that > this is the loaded constant, which means the effective output of the > sensor taking into account amplifier input and damping resistances. > > Now comes questions about amplifier, filter and recording unit. > > RECORDING MEDIA GAIN (COUNT/V OR M/V) ? > > If you have a recording media, the gain can be given here, otherwise > just enter 1.0 > > If the output format is GSE, the response is always calculated in > displacement units, while for SEISAN output and seismometer or > accelerometer, the following options appear: > > TYPE OF RESPONSE: > 1: DISPLACEMENT > 2: VELOCITY > 3: ACCELERATION > > Normally for a seismometer, one wants to calculate the displacement > response and for an accelerometer, the acceleration response. However it > might sometimes be interesting to look at e.g. the velocity response for > a seismometer (after all, the seismometer is normally a velocity > transducer !!). Enter the appropriate number. > > AMPLIFIER GAIN (DB) ? > > This is the amplifier gain in dB. Since this question is only asked > once, this gain must include gain of all units except the recorder > (asked below). This could e.g. include gain of the VCO system. > > NUMBER OF FILTERS (0-10), RETURN FOR NONE ? > > Up to 10 filters can be specified. If you answer 0, no filters are used > and no more questions on filters will appear. Otherwise one line of > input must be given for each filter as follows: > > FREQUENCY AND NUMBER OF POLES FOR EACH FILTER, > POLES NEGATIVE FOR HIGH PASS > > Each line requires two numbers, the corner frequency of the filter and > the number of poles. A high pass filter is given by letting number of > poles be negative. It is not always easy to know whether a filter is > e.g. one 2 pole or two 1 pole filters, the user needs to experiment with > this. > > FILE NAME FOR FILE WITH POLES AND ZEROS, RETURN FOR NO FILE > > Here a file with poles and zeros can be entered. If seismometer > constants have been chosen above, the values calculated with poles and > zeros are multiplied with the values previously calculated. The free > format file contains: > > 1. line: NP: Number of poles, NZ: Number of zeros, Norm: Normalization > constant > Following NP lines contain one pair each of real and imaginary poles > Following NZ lines contain one pair each of real and imaginary zeros > > NOTE: The unit of frequency is radian/s so if in Hz, multiply with $ 2 > \pi$ and normalization constant in $ radian= (normalization constant in > Hz) 2\pi^{(number of poles-number of zeroes)}$. > > The next 2 options are only shown if the output file is selected to be > FAP: > > FILE NAME FOR TABULATED VALUES, RETURN FOR NO FILE > > Here a file with tabulated values are entered. If seismometer constants > or poles and zeros have been chosen above, the tabulated values will be > interpolated and multiplied with the values previously calculated for > from above. The free format file contains: > > 1. line: N: Number of tabulated values, Norm: Normalization constant > Following N lines contain one each frequancy, amplitude and phase(deg) > > GIVE FILE NAME FOR MEASURED VALUES, RETURN FOR NONE > > Give file name for measured values. In most cases you have none so just > make a return. The format of the input file is as follows: > > frequency, amplitude, phase > frequency, amplitude, phase > etc. > > e.g. > > 0.2,0.7,200 > 0.7,0.8,100 > 10.0,0.1,33 > > The file has no blank lines and can contain up to 60 data sets. It is > important to note that the amplitude values should be NORMALIZED at 1.0 > Hz. > > Now there is no more input to the response parameters, and the output > is: > > GAIN FACTOR AT 1.0 HZ: 12345.6 > > This is the gain of the system at 1.0 Hz and is also the value for > normalizing the response curve, that is, all calculated values are > divided by this number. There is no unit for gain of an amplifier and > for displacement response using a seismometer and drum recording. If the > recording is digital, the unit would be counts/meter and for a velocity > response counts/meter/second etc. If a file with poles and zeros is used > without any other information, the normalization constant must have the > unit of count/m, similar for the tabulated input. > > Further output is given in a file called resp.out, see Table 1 for an > example. > > The response curves (amplitude and phase) are now printed/plotted on the > screen. First comes the amplitude response (amplitude in db versus log > frequency). By pushing return, the phase response is shown (phase shift > (deg) versus log frequency). > > > > > > > On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 22:09 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: >> Thank you much sismos/Angel, >> >> More questions to ask. >> >> The specs for my geophone is like an ideal 2.99V/IN/SEC >> Is that like ( 117.7V/M/sec) or (1.177V/cm/SEC). >> [which seems more like 1.5V/IN/SEC when I look at it myself] >> through the filtered electronics. Then I amplify like X1025 (60Dbv) >> Then into a 12bit A/D running at +/- 2.045 Volts. >> This means about 1023 count == output of 1.023Volts >> Which is (0.001V/count)/1025 or 0.975 microvolts per count >> on the geophone output which is possibly 114.7micrometers/sec of motion ? >> Is this the kind of information they want ? >> >> The order goes something like this: >> 1. Geophone input: 1uM/sec >> 2. Geophone output: 117.7 uV >> 3. Amplifier Input: 117.7 uV >> 4. Amplifier Output: 120.7 mV >> 5. Counts out of A/D: +120 >> Does any of this sound right ? >> Does this come anywhere close to calibration ideas ? >> >> The only way I know how to calibrate or evaluate the >> sensitivity is to go to the USGS website for >> Theoretical values relating to a specific EQ then >> translating the numbers backward through the system >> to match the theoretical intensity of the EQ >> as it passed through my system at my location. >> Might this be a proper way to look at my >> own system ?? >> >> Right now for regional quakes Winquake gives me a very good idea >> of the actual Ml (Richter magnitude). Might I >> use the correctional numbers for Winquake to >> enhance the accuracy and precision of my sensor. >> What I really mean is this, if I can achieve zero correction >> for correct ML readings, then my calibration numbers must be right ? >> Then I may send this number to IRIS with my data ?? >> >> Do I need to bandpass filter the read data at 1Hz before applying the numbers >> to the data since the USGS states these numbers to be at 1Hz? >> >> Best regards, >> geoff >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "sismos" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 7:46 PM >> Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes >> >> >> > Hi Geoff, >> > >> > I have to admit you're a tough one. >> > >> > >> > About metrology; >> > >> > Calibrating a thermometer to an accuracy of +/- 1 degree so you can >> > measure the temp of baby formula can be done in most any kitchen and no >> > one can argue that it is not calibrated. >> > >> > Calibrating seismographs is much the same, it just does not have to be >> > that accurate. A few parts per thousand is good enough and that is >> > within the reach most anyone that can build a home seismometer. I was >> > calibrating a sensor during a class and sweating the decimals and the >> > instructor said to calm down, +/- 5% was fine. >> > >> > He asked me to image setting off a firecracker at one end of a pile of >> > construction ruble and sensing it at the other end with a very accurate >> > sensor and one that was not so accurate and trying to say much about the >> > pile of ruble or nature of the firecracker with either sensor. >> > >> > About amateurs; >> > >> > Being an amateur has very little if anything to do with the quality of >> > what is being done. In it's simplest context it just means you don't get >> > paid for doing what you do. Many amateur do great work and in some cases >> > better work than paid professional. Paid professional and scientist >> > have to be concerned about the bottom line and us amateurs can ignore >> > that reality. I think you would be surprised that many amateurs are >> > building seismometers that are just as good as what the professionals >> > build, and better than some, and I will add if you can calibrate and >> > keep the temperature constant then the data from any seismometer is good >> > data. >> > >> > About IRIS >> > >> > Yes, you can send raw data to IRIS along with the calibration file and >> > they will make a power density function display for you, but you will >> > need the calibration file. IRIS knows nothing about your seismometer >> > and the calibration file allows them not to care. That's what the >> > calibration file is about, not caring about the sensor and it's >> > associated electronics. >> > >> > Geoff, I have no doubts that calibrating a seismograph is well within >> > your abilities. I will add that if all you care about is picking phases >> > (P and S and their variants) then calibration is not an issue. And for >> > small local earthquakes you can use the duration or coda to determine >> > magnitude (Mc or Md) so you have no need for calibration, it does not >> > matter. And if you had a bunch of sensors like that and some decent >> > timestamping of the data then you could locate epicenters. >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Angel >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > __________________________________________________________ >> > >> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> > >> > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 17:07:32 +0000 Geoff, It looks like you are on the right track. The source code is in fortran and I can send it along if you want to play with it. 60 db is a lot of gain but not too much for a 1 Hz geophone how did you get to a recording media gain of 1023? Angel On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 09:27 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello sismos/Angel; > > here is first results which i need to play around with. > It (response) looks about as I thought it would except this is displacement > instead of velocity. > > Thanks very much for the download and information. > > This program is written like I used to write > in the old QBASIC interpreter which came free in MSDOS. > > The FTP server did not want me to log on at first > but it did finally let me do so. > > Do I understand displacement gain at 1Hz of 75 million ? > > Best regards, > geoff > > > > ********************************* BELOW ********************** > SENSOR TYPE: SEISMOMETER RESPONSE: DISPLACEMENT > SEISMOMETER PERIOD= 1.000000 > GENERATOR CONSTANT= 117.0000 > DAMPING RATIO = 0.7071000 > AMPLIFIER GAIN(DB)= 60.00000 > RECORDING GAIN= 1023.000 > FILTER CONSTANTS > F= 2.00 POLES= 6 > F= 0.14 POLES= 1 > F= 0.03 POLES= -2 > GAIN AT 1 HZ= 7.5269264E+07 > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 12:37:32 -0700 Hello sismos/Angel; If you send me the fortran i would be happy to convert it to powerbasic and send the results back. If I send you the EXE code power basic claims ownership and you can not realize profit without consulting them first( i think). But this will only be possible if I understand the source in the first place. I am not unfamiliar with Fortran ( Formula Translation Code) I have a Microsoft Fortran Compiler I purchased for compiling the old USGS Travel time source code but I think it will not run on this 64 bit machine under windows. I'm not sure but I think the tables used by Winquake were created using that same USGS Fortran source code I specifically purchased the Fortran compiler to compile. For some reason the USGS would not provide an EXE file and you had to compile the source code yourself. I think most federal employees are afraid of EXE files and their hidden dangers. If they do not see it compiled personally they will not run it. And they will not share it. The compiled EXE code I mean. Today I suspect the USGS has its own programmers that can do anything they might want within Gvmnt circles. Yet something like law or ?? prohibits them from sharing what they produce. Or you might see one of the best travel time tables models possible that run within your own machine and be free to have ( taxpayer expense since nothing is really free). At the moment the Theoretical stuff they offer on their website is the best thing going. It would be nice to have a 64 bit compiler for the new machines but PowerBasic does not seem to do that yet. Yes, by any means, please send me the source. Best regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 10:07 AM Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes > Geoff, > > It looks like you are on the right track. The source code is in fortran > and I can send it along if you want to play with it. > > 60 db is a lot of gain but not too much for a 1 Hz geophone > > how did you get to a recording media gain of 1023? > > Angel > > > > > On Sat, 2010-04-10 at 09:27 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: >> Hello sismos/Angel; >> >> here is first results which i need to play around with. >> It (response) looks about as I thought it would except this is displacement >> instead of velocity. >> >> Thanks very much for the download and information. >> >> This program is written like I used to write >> in the old QBASIC interpreter which came free in MSDOS. >> >> The FTP server did not want me to log on at first >> but it did finally let me do so. >> >> Do I understand displacement gain at 1Hz of 75 million ? >> >> Best regards, >> geoff >> >> >> >> ********************************* BELOW ********************** >> SENSOR TYPE: SEISMOMETER RESPONSE: DISPLACEMENT >> SEISMOMETER PERIOD= 1.000000 >> GENERATOR CONSTANT= 117.0000 >> DAMPING RATIO = 0.7071000 >> AMPLIFIER GAIN(DB)= 60.00000 >> RECORDING GAIN= 1023.000 >> FILTER CONSTANTS >> F= 2.00 POLES= 6 >> F= 0.14 POLES= 1 >> F= 0.03 POLES= -2 >> GAIN AT 1 HZ= 7.5269264E+07 >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 19:57:03 +0000 Geoff, Unless anyone else pipes in wanting to follow this thread I would like to take it off list. There is no profit involved in any of this and power basic can make all the claims they want. I have placed the source file on the ftp. Angel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Question about Winquake CRC From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:10:07 -0700 Hello PSN, I have noticed that The event database will not accept my PSN files which I generated myself but will accept them if I open my file then save them from the winquake program itself, does this have to do with the filename or the CRC (16 or 32) since Winquake opens the file I create ok with no protesting. Does anyone understand why my self generated winquake PSN4 files will not be accepted even though they open OK within Winquake itself? I must not have a proper Winquake form or the files would be accepted as is. Note to all those that be present, let it be known; I get the proper times from Winquake if I truncate my data files at the exact top of the minute and do not fill in the offset time areas in the WQPSN4 header. People will disagree with me, but this is the only way I have been able to make it work 100% for myself. If I do this I get the proper times for each and every sample yet if I try to use the offsets, things are never right for ME. It most probably is not an issue if you created your data from the intended WQ software but only in the way I'm trying to do things, by inserting my own data into a Winquake form. I have modified my recording program to truncate data at a calibration mark this cal mark becoming the very first data sample. It has worked correctly in showing my data times ever since. Regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2010 13:30:20 -0700 Hello sismos/Angel; Just downloaded A-Ok and i will play with it (thats what i call programming) to convert to basic. This is a graphic oriented compiler program so outputs are to a graphic window and not to the command console. I can create files (TXT etc) but not display things like in the original DOS text form. Power basic has a compiler which also behaves like DOS by invoking the command console but i do not have that form of the compiler. This program will run only under windows and uses graphic windows ( 24bit BMP ) for most everything to communicate results. Every input and output (except creation of files) requires its own window. Thus you need 32/64 bit windows to run the EXE file or so I understand. It will be a few days for results since my time is not entirely my own. I do have a 16 bit compiler for DOS also if you want that version too. What you already have, runs nicely on this quad core 64 bit machine under vista. Best Regards; geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Saturday, April 10, 2010 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Question to Techno-Philes > Geoff, > > Unless anyone else pipes in wanting to follow this thread I would like > to take it off list. > > There is no profit involved in any of this and power basic can make all > the claims they want. > > I have placed the source file on the ftp. > > Angel > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Spain earthquake From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 05:20:53 +0000 Hi all, Does anyone know why and how there was a subduction zone earthquake in a slip fault zone area. I do not get my head around it. My only idea so far is that there must be a good sized plate down there for some odd reason. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Spain earthquake From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:21:34 -0700 I have not looked at this event but you might look to see if it occurred = on a side flat that is dipping under the slip fault. This could be part of = the normal faulting and folding that takes place as the plates slip past = each other. Take a look at the Loma Prieta Oct 17,1986 event and you will see = an example of this. The main event was along the side Zayante Fault next to = the San Andreas and in this area tectonics has subducted the Farallon Plate below and between the Pacific plate and the North American plate. The subducted plate has contributed to the uplift in the Santa Cruz mountain range near the north end of the Monterey Bay. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose and San Santa Cruz, Aptos, = California -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:21 PM To: PSN-Postlist Subject: Spain earthquake Hi all, Does anyone know why and how there was a subduction zone earthquake in a slip fault zone area. I do not get my head around it. My only idea so far is that there must be a good sized plate down there for some odd reason. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Spain earthquake From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 00:21:34 -0700 I have not looked at this event but you might look to see if it occurred = on a side flat that is dipping under the slip fault. This could be part of = the normal faulting and folding that takes place as the plates slip past = each other. Take a look at the Loma Prieta Oct 17,1986 event and you will see = an example of this. The main event was along the side Zayante Fault next to = the San Andreas and in this area tectonics has subducted the Farallon Plate below and between the Pacific plate and the North American plate. The subducted plate has contributed to the uplift in the Santa Cruz mountain range near the north end of the Monterey Bay. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose and San Santa Cruz, Aptos, = California -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:21 PM To: PSN-Postlist Subject: Spain earthquake Hi all, Does anyone know why and how there was a subduction zone earthquake in a slip fault zone area. I do not get my head around it. My only idea so far is that there must be a good sized plate down there for some odd reason. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Spain earthquake From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:07:05 +0000 Hi, This earthquake appears to be bit strange according to the EMSC website. As there has never been recored such deep earthquake there before. http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D164036# This is a strange one it seems. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-04-12 at 00:21 -0700, Stephen Hammond wrote: > I have not looked at this event but you might look to see if it occurred = on > a side flat that is dipping under the slip fault. This could be part of t= he > normal faulting and folding that takes place as the plates slip past each > other. Take a look at the Loma Prieta Oct 17,1986 event and you will see = an > example of this. The main event was along the side Zayante Fault next to = the > San Andreas and in this area tectonics has subducted the Farallon Plate > below and between the Pacific plate and the North American plate. The > subducted plate has contributed to the uplift in the Santa Cruz mountain > range near the north end of the Monterey Bay. >=20 > Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose and San Santa Cruz, Aptos, California >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > Sent: Sunday, April 11, 2010 10:21 PM > To: PSN-Postlist > Subject: Spain earthquake >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Does anyone know why and how there was a subduction zone earthquake in a > slip fault zone area. I do not get my head around it. My only idea so > far is that there must be a good sized plate down there for some odd > reason. >=20 > Regards, __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Spain earthquake From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:10:41 +1000 Jon, The focal mech for this quake is primarily an extensional motion with a bit= of oblique motion rather than subduction see my page here for an intro to focal mec diagrams and how they relate to faulting http://www.sydneystormcity.com/fomec.htm in Diag D you will see Fomec's relating to subduction and thrusting That being said once upon a time, long, long ago, the western end of the Mediterranian was subduction. most of that now is in the central "Med" Sea area which continues to fuel Mt Etna and push the Swiss Apls a little= higher. Cheers Dave N Sydney At 05:20 AM 4/12/2010 +0000, you wrote: >Hi all, > >Does anyone know why and how there was a subduction zone earthquake in a >slip fault zone area. I do not get my head around it. My only idea so >far is that there must be a good sized plate down there for some odd >reason. > >Regards, >-- >J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Spain earthquake From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:22:52 +1000 Hi again Jon, you need to do a little more research :) this is not the deepest quake in this area it was well beaten by a M7.1 in 1954 that was 650km deep !!! very deep quakes in this region are not unheard of just not common. The opinion of some researchers is that maybe its an old block of the=20 original subducted lithospheric material that may still be producing occassional= events. cheers Dave N Sydney At 08:07 AM 4/12/2010 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, >This earthquake appears to be bit strange according to the EMSC website. >As there has never been recored such deep earthquake there before. >http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D164036# >This is a strange one it seems. >Regards, >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Spain earthquake From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 08:46:42 +0000 Hi, The reason for this earthquake is not clear. But I need to check better for the other information about older earthquakes in that area. EMSC only has data to 1960 on it's maps. Here is USGS info on the earthquake. http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2010uycs.php#su= mmary Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-04-12 at 18:22 +1000, Dave Nelson wrote: > Hi again Jon, > you need to do a little more research :) > this is not the deepest quake in this area it was well beaten by a M7.1 > in 1954 that was 650km deep !!! very deep quakes in this region are > not unheard of just not common. > The opinion of some researchers is that maybe its an old block of the= =20 > original > subducted lithospheric material that may still be producing occassional e= vents. >=20 > cheers > Dave N > Sydney >=20 >=20 > At 08:07 AM 4/12/2010 +0000, you wrote: > >Hi, > >This earthquake appears to be bit strange according to the EMSC website. > >As there has never been recored such deep earthquake there before. > >http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D1640= 36# > >This is a strange one it seems. > >Regards, > >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Spain earthquake From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 19:28:28 +1000 Yes I know that one Jon, As I said in my previous mail if you do a ittle research you=20 will find the info that I did. There are some very interesting studies that have been=20 done in that region of Spain. These include some on the very deep earthquakes in= that region. cheers Dave N Sydney At 08:46 AM 4/12/2010 +0000, you wrote: >Hi, > >The reason for this earthquake is not clear. But I need to check better >for the other information about older earthquakes in that area. EMSC >only has data to 1960 on it's maps. > >Here is USGS info on the earthquake. > >http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2010uycs.php#su= mmary > >Regards, >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >On m=E1n, 2010-04-12 at 18:22 +1000, Dave Nelson wrote: > > Hi again Jon, > > you need to do a little more research :) > > this is not the deepest quake in this area it was well beaten by a= M7.1 > > in 1954 that was 650km deep !!! very deep quakes in this region are > > not unheard of just not common. > > The opinion of some researchers is that maybe its an old block of= the > > original > > subducted lithospheric material that may still be producing occassional= =20 > events. > > > > cheers > > Dave N > > Sydney > > > > > > At 08:07 AM 4/12/2010 +0000, you wrote: > > >Hi, > > >This earthquake appears to be bit strange according to the EMSC= website. > > >As there has never been recored such deep earthquake there before. > > >http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D164= 036# > > >This is a strange one it seems. > > >Regards, > > >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Question about Winquake CRC From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2010 18:32:58 -0700 Geoff, There is a flag bit in the PSN Type 4 header that can be used to turn off CRC checking. See the "Flags" field in the "Fix Header" section on this page http://www.seismicnet.com/psnformat4.html for more info. If you send me one of your PSN files that has not been saved by WinQuake I'll take a look at it. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 4/10/2010 1:10 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello PSN, > > I have noticed that The event database will not accept my PSN files which I generated > myself but will accept them if I open my file then save them from the winquake program itself, > does this have to do with the filename or the CRC (16 or 32) since Winquake opens the > file I create ok with no protesting. Does anyone understand why my self generated > winquake PSN4 files will not be accepted even though they open OK within Winquake itself? > I must not have a proper Winquake form or the files would be accepted as is. > > Note to all those that be present, let it be known; > I get the proper times from Winquake if I truncate my data files at > the exact top of the minute and do not fill in the offset time areas > in the WQPSN4 header. People will disagree with me, but this is the only > way I have been able to make it work 100% for myself. If I do this > I get the proper times for each and every sample yet if I try to > use the offsets, things are never right for ME. > It most probably is not an issue if you created your data from > the intended WQ software but only in the way I'm trying to do things, > by inserting my own data into a Winquake form. > I have modified my recording program to truncate data > at a calibration mark this cal mark becoming the very first data sample. > It has worked correctly in showing my data times ever since. > > Regards, > geoff > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Well I have another one @ ~ 12:45 UTC. I think it is in the Baja/ caribbean area. I don't see it posted W/ USGS or Red Puma. I see that Dave Nelson picked it up and it is on Live internet seismic server on a few stations. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com
Mark
I hadn't used red puma in years. I fo= rgot about them . Thanks.

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com<= /span>

--- On Thu, 4/8/10, Mark Robinson <mark.robinson@par= adise.net.nz> wrote:

From: Mark = Robinson <mark.robinson@...............>
Subject: Re: mistery even= t
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Thursday, April 8, 2010, 8:42 PM
=
Barry Lotz wrote:
>
> All
>= I was detecting a teleseismic event at about 15:00 UTC. Looking at the liv= e internet seismic server it appears to be located in the south Pacific are= a somewhere  . I don't see it on the USGS site. Anyone know of any eve= nt fitting this description?
> http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_= Data/heli2.shtml

Red Puma shows a ~mag5 event ~Vanuatu.

<= a href=3D"http://www.seismo.ethz.ch/redpuma/redpuma_ami_list.html" target= =3D"_blank">http://www.seismo.ethz.ch/redpuma/redpuma_ami_list.html
=
__________________________________________________________

Publi= c Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body o= f the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/ma= illist.html for more information.
Well I have another one @ ~ 12:45 UTC. I think it is in the Baja/ caribbean area. I don't see it posted W/ USGS or Red Puma. I see that Dave Nelson picked it up and it is on Live internet seismic server on a few stations.

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com
Subject: Re: From: Richard Webb dwebb002@............. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:45:02 -0400 You can see it at http://genequake.com/html/seismology.html Dick On 4/13/2010 9:42 PM, Barry Lotz wrote: > Well I have another one @ ~ 12:45 UTC. I think it is in the Baja/ > caribbean area. I don't see it posted W/ USGS or Red Puma. I see that > Dave Nelson picked it up and it is on Live internet seismic server on > a few stations. > > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > -- Richard Webb Raleigh, NC Farr and Webb Family Genealogy site: http://Genequake.com/Genealogy Family and Seismology site: http://Genequake.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Mexicali Quake.. From: "Kareem J. Lanier" system98765@............. Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:07:48 -0700 Boy, it seems that the one M7.2 event is still influencing a large area around the epicenter. There just seems to be many M3 to M4 quakes over a large area. It's interesting to see all the activity that's occurring between the San Jacinto and Elsinore Faults. There seems to be a cross area of quakes connecting the two faults. Regards, Kareem J. Lanier

Boy, it seems that the one M7.2 event  is = still influencing a large area around the epicenter. There just seems to be = many M3 to M4 quakes over a large area. It’s interesting to see all the = activity that’s occurring between the San Jacinto and Elsinore Faults. = There seems to be a cross area of quakes connecting the two faults.

 

 

Regards,

Kareem J. Lanier

 

 

Subject: what happened to the NEIC - ALL lisitng? From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:05:19 -0700 I can no longer find a current event report. Can somebody tell me which reports you are using with Winquake and and what the URL is? I have been using the NEIC - All event listing but the last time it was updated was on 4/12/10. Thanks-Steve Hammond

I can no longer find a current event report. Can = somebody tell me which reports you are using with Winquake and and what the URL = is? I have been using the NEIC – All event listing but the last time it = was updated was on 4/12/10.

Thanks—Steve Hammond

 

Subject: Re: what happened to the NEIC - ALL lisitng? From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:39:15 -0700 Steve - I just checked it and I see data through 04/14/10 15:31:35. Appears to = be OK. Bob Hancock On Apr 14, 2010, at 12:05 AM, Stephen Hammond wrote: > I can no longer find a current event report. Can somebody tell me = which reports you are using with Winquake and and what the URL is? I = have been using the NEIC =96 All event listing but the last time it was = updated was on 4/12/10. > Thanks=97Steve Hammond > =20
Steve -

I just = checked it and I see data through 04/14/10 15:31:35.  Appears to be = OK.

Bob = Hancock


On Apr 14, 2010, at 12:05 AM, = Stephen Hammond wrote:

I can no longer find a current = event report. Can somebody tell me which reports you are using with = Winquake and and what the URL is? I have been using the NEIC =96 All = event listing but the last time it was updated was on = 4/12/10.
Thanks=97Steve = Hammond
To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 12:05 AM Subject: what happened to the NEIC - ALL lisitng? >I can no longer find a current event report. Can somebody tell me which > reports you are using with Winquake and and what the URL is? I have been > using the NEIC - All event listing but the last time it was updated was on > 4/12/10. > > Thanks-Steve Hammond > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: what happened to the NEIC - ALL lisitng? From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:04:39 -0700 Hi Geoff - THANKS - I have a lot of email that I send in rich text format, and that = can be a problem. Also be aware that my primary computer is a MAC = running Snow Leopard 10.6.3, and it appears that the other 99.9999 % of = the PSN group is using PCs. =20 I use the MAC email client and although I exchange emails with a wide = variety of people and places, I will try to be more sensitive when = posting to the PSN group......... Thanks Again, Bob BTW - I have been digging into JAVA - not as hard as I thought it would = be. I have over 15 years experience with Visual Basic, and also a = smattering of Fortran. I want to write programs that can run on either = a MAC or PC. On Apr 14, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > I have noticed this also, > yet if you subscribe to their email notice they > send you reports that are the very latest. >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hammond" = > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 12:05 AM > Subject: what happened to the NEIC - ALL lisitng? >=20 >=20 >> I can no longer find a current event report. Can somebody tell me = which >> reports you are using with Winquake and and what the URL is? I have = been >> using the NEIC - All event listing but the last time it was updated = was on >> 4/12/10. Thanks-Steve Hammond >>=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: OOPS From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:09:45 -0700 I replied to a message using the wrong email.......Sorry about = that........Bob= __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: USGS Travel times From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 20:28:10 -0700 http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/cnss_14.fing Here is the link I have been using to get travel times. It is no longer being updated. Does an7ybody have a new link? Steve Hammond Message
http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/cnss_14.fing 
 
Here is the link I have been using to get travel times. It is = no longer=20 being updated. Does an7ybody have a new link?
Steve Hammond 
Subject: Re: USGS Travel times From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 20:47:07 -0700 Try this - it works for me....... ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing[All NEIC Events] Bob Hancock On Apr 14, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Stephen Hammond wrote: > http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/cnss_14.fing=20 > =20 > Here is the link I have been using to get travel times. It is no = longer being updated. Does an7ybody have a new link? > Steve Hammond=20
Try this  - it works for me.......


Bob Hancock


On Apr 14, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Stephen Hammond wrote:

 
Here is the link I have been using to get travel times. It is no longer being updated. Does an7ybody have a new link?
Steve Hammond 

Subject: Re: Volcano eruption in =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: ian ian@........... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:05:11 +0100 I don't know too much about what's going on in Iceland but Scottish airspace is shut and UK airspace will close by 11 am GMT. Stranded tourists everywhere, a bit like 9/11 again. Ian Jón Frímann wrote: > Hi Gary, > > All the web cams that I know of at the moment are on my web page, > http://earthquakes.jonfr.com check the web cam section. > > I am save. As I live ~150 km away from Eyjafjallajökull and this just a > fissure eruption that is taking place at the moment. Just lava shooting > out. > > Regards, > Jón Frímann. > > On sun, 2010-03-21 at 08:38 -0700, Gary Lindgren wrote: > >> Jon, >> Are there any web cams streaming from Eyjafjallajökull. Can you give us a >> lesson on how to pronounce Eyjafjallajökull. >> Gary >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On >> Behalf Of Jón Frímann >> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:34 PM >> To: PSN-Postlist >> Subject: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallajökull >> >> Hi all, >> >> A volcano eruption has started in Eyjafjallajökull. The volcano tremor >> might appear in my Hekla sensor when the wind slows down. >> >> Regards, >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Volcano eruption in =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:11:22 +0000 Hi Ian, It is the ash cloud that has been reaching ~8km high from Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. But yesterday a sub-glacier eruption started in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull it has contunied trugh out the night and shows no signs of stopping. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2010-04-15 at 10:05 +0100, ian wrote: > I don't know too much about what's going on in Iceland but Scottish=20 > airspace is shut and UK airspace will close by 11 am GMT. Stranded=20 > tourists everywhere, a bit like 9/11 again. >=20 > Ian >=20 > J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: > > Hi Gary, > > > > All the web cams that I know of at the moment are on my web page, > > http://earthquakes.jonfr.com check the web cam section. > > > > I am save. As I live ~150 km away from Eyjafjallaj=F6kull and this just= a > > fissure eruption that is taking place at the moment. Just lava shooting > > out. > > > > Regards, > > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > > > On sun, 2010-03-21 at 08:38 -0700, Gary Lindgren wrote: > > =20 > >> Jon, > >> Are there any web cams streaming from Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. Can you give= us a > >> lesson on how to pronounce Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. > >> Gary > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@.............. m] On > >> Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann > >> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:34 PM > >> To: PSN-Postlist > >> Subject: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> A volcano eruption has started in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull. The volcano trem= or > >> might appear in my Hekla sensor when the wind slows down. > >> > >> Regards, > >> =20 > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > =20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Volcano eruption in =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: ian ian@........... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:14:51 +0100 Hi, yes, though they are saying it's now up at 50 Km and below. They also say that some of the larger pieces of ash will fall on Scotland tonight - so I might get my own piece of Iceland soon! Ian Jón Frímann wrote: > Hi Ian, > > It is the ash cloud that has been reaching ~8km high from > Eyjafjallajökull. But yesterday a sub-glacier eruption started in > Eyjafjallajökull it has contunied trugh out the night and shows no signs > of stopping. > > Regards, > Jón Frímann. > > On fim, 2010-04-15 at 10:05 +0100, ian wrote: > >> I don't know too much about what's going on in Iceland but Scottish >> airspace is shut and UK airspace will close by 11 am GMT. Stranded >> tourists everywhere, a bit like 9/11 again. >> >> Ian >> >> Jón Frímann wrote: >> >>> Hi Gary, >>> >>> All the web cams that I know of at the moment are on my web page, >>> http://earthquakes.jonfr.com check the web cam section. >>> >>> I am save. As I live ~150 km away from Eyjafjallajökull and this just a >>> fissure eruption that is taking place at the moment. Just lava shooting >>> out. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jón Frímann. >>> >>> On sun, 2010-03-21 at 08:38 -0700, Gary Lindgren wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Jon, >>>> Are there any web cams streaming from Eyjafjallajökull. Can you give us a >>>> lesson on how to pronounce Eyjafjallajökull. >>>> Gary >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On >>>> Behalf Of Jón Frímann >>>> Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2010 6:34 PM >>>> To: PSN-Postlist >>>> Subject: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallajökull >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> A volcano eruption has started in Eyjafjallajökull. The volcano tremor >>>> might appear in my Hekla sensor when the wind slows down. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> >>> >>> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Volcano eruption in =?iso-8859-1?Q?Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: Steinar Midtskogen steinar@............. Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 11:25:51 +0200 ian writes: > yes, though they are saying it's now up at 50 Km and below. They also > say that some of the larger pieces of ash will fall on Scotland > tonight - so I might get my own piece of Iceland soon! The entire Norwegian airspace has been closed. I have a flight from Oslo this afternoon to catch a meeting in Paris tomorrow morning. There will be a new update an hour or so before the departure, but I'm having doubts that I should at all bother to go to the airport... And if the flight isn't cancelled, I would risk getting stuck when I need to go home tomorrow. Also, my wife has a flight to Stockholm on Sunday. So this is pretty disruptive. At least there are chances that the sunset tonight will be enjoyable to watch. -- Steinar Midtskogen http://voksenlia.net/met/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Volcano eruption in =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 09:42:15 +0000 Hi, The ash cloud is continues to reach 6 to 8 km high at the moment. But no one knows if the eruption is going to get more powerful or not. Only time is going to tell. Regards, J=F3n r=EDmann. On fim, 2010-04-15 at 11:25 +0200, Steinar Midtskogen wrote: > ian writes: >=20 > > yes, though they are saying it's now up at 50 Km and below. They also > > say that some of the larger pieces of ash will fall on Scotland > > tonight - so I might get my own piece of Iceland soon! >=20 > The entire Norwegian airspace has been closed. I have a flight from > Oslo this afternoon to catch a meeting in Paris tomorrow morning. > There will be a new update an hour or so before the departure, but I'm > having doubts that I should at all bother to go to the airport... And > if the flight isn't cancelled, I would risk getting stuck when I need > to go home tomorrow. Also, my wife has a flight to Stockholm on > Sunday. So this is pretty disruptive. >=20 > At least there are chances that the sunset tonight will be enjoyable > to watch. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: USGS Travel times From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 05:19:43 -0700 Hello Bob, Its my understanding its only right for the public to use FTP sites which begib with PUB like the following is OK ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/pub/ But not any other within the ftp folder ??? is that right ?? Maybe not ??? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hancock" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: USGS Travel times Try this - it works for me....... ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing[All NEIC Events] Bob Hancock On Apr 14, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Stephen Hammond wrote: > http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/cnss_14.fing > > Here is the link I have been using to get travel times. It is no longer being updated. Does an7ybody have a new link? > Steve Hammond __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: USGS Travel times From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 05:23:16 -0700 I would recommend you go to this site https://sslearthquake.usgs.gov/ens/ Create an account and subscribe to whatever notification schemes you like. Notice its a security site. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hammond" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 8:28 PM Subject: USGS Travel times > > http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/cnss_14.fing > > Here is the link I have been using to get travel times. It is no longer > being updated. Does an7ybody have a new link? > Steve Hammond > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: USGS Travel times From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:19:17 -0700 I know of no restrictions for this site and it works - maybe some others = from the PSN group can comment if they are using different = sites.......................Bob On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:19 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello Bob, > Its my understanding its only right for > the public to use FTP sites which > begib with PUB like the following is OK > ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/pub/ > But not any other within the ftp folder ??? > is that right ?? > Maybe not ??? >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hancock" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 8:47 PM > Subject: Re: USGS Travel times >=20 >=20 > Try this - it works for me....... >=20 > ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing[All NEIC Events] >=20 > Bob Hancock >=20 >=20 > On Apr 14, 2010, at 8:28 PM, Stephen Hammond wrote: >=20 >> http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/cnss_14.fing Here is the link = I have been using to get travel times. It is no longer being updated. = Does an7ybody have a new link? >> Steve Hammond=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: USGS Travel times From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 06:25:49 -0700 This is a nice site - I used to subscribe to this but no longer do. It = gives you notification of a event as soon as the data is posted by the = USGS, but it does not give you a compiled list of recent events, only = the single event in question. The data is not in a format that can be = transferred to your PSN files with the click of a mouse. Bob Hancock =20 On Apr 15, 2010, at 5:23 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > I would recommend you go to this site >=20 > https://sslearthquake.usgs.gov/ens/ >=20 > Create an account and subscribe to whatever > notification schemes you like. >=20 > Notice its a security site. >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hammond" = > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 8:28 PM > Subject: USGS Travel times >=20 >=20 >> >> http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/cnss_14.fing Here is the link = I have been using to get travel times. It is no longer >> being updated. Does an7ybody have a new link? >> Steve Hammond=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Volcano_eruption_in_Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: John Cole johncole0722@....... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 08:51:29 -0700 (PDT) =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: J=F3n Fr=EDmann =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Thu, April 15, 2010 4:42:= 15 AM=0ASubject: Re: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjallaj=F6kull=0A=0AHi,=0A=0AT= he ash cloud is continues to reach 6 to 8 km high at the moment. But no=0Ao= ne knows if the eruption is going to get more powerful or not. Only=0Atime = is going to tell.=0A=0ARegards,=0AJ=F3n r=EDmann.=0A=0AOn fim, 2010-04-15 a= t 11:25 +0200, Steinar Midtskogen wrote:=0A> ian writes:= =0A> =0A> > yes, though they are saying it's now up at 50 Km and below.=A0 = They also=0A> > say that some of the larger pieces of ash will fall on Scot= land=0A> > tonight - so I might get my own piece of Iceland soon!=0A> =0A> = The entire Norwegian airspace has been closed.=A0 I have a flight from=0A> = Oslo this afternoon to catch a meeting in Paris tomorrow morning.=0A> There= will be a new update an hour or so before the departure, but I'm=0A> havin= g doubts that I should at all bother to go to the airport...=A0 And=0A> if = the flight isn't cancelled, I would risk getting stuck when I need=0A> to g= o home tomorrow.=A0 Also, my wife has a flight to Stockholm on=0A> Sunday.= =A0 So this is pretty disruptive.=0A> =0A> At least there are chances that = the sunset tonight will be enjoyable=0A> to watch.=0A=0A=0A________________= __________________________________________=0A=0APublic Seismic Network Mail= ing List (PSN-L)=0A=0ATo leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@............... with=0Athe body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe=0ASee http:/= /www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: J=F3n Fr=EDmann <jonfr@.........>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Thu, April 15, 2010 4:42:15 AM
Subject: Re: Volcano eruption in Eyjafjal= laj=F6kull

Hi,

The ash cloud is continues to reach 6 t= o 8 km high at the moment. But no
one knows if the eruption is going to = get more powerful or not. Only
time is going to tell.

Regards,J=F3n r=EDmann.

On fim, 2010-04-15 at 11:25 +0200, Steinar Midtskog= en wrote:
> ian <ian@...........> writes:
>
> > = yes, though they are saying it's now up at 50 Km and below.  They also=
> > say that some of the larger pieces of ash will fall on Scotla= nd
> > tonight - so I might get my own piece of Iceland soon!
>
> The entire Norweg= ian airspace has been closed.  I have a flight from
> Oslo this = afternoon to catch a meeting in Paris tomorrow morning.
> There will = be a new update an hour or so before the departure, but I'm
> having = doubts that I should at all bother to go to the airport...  And
>= ; if the flight isn't cancelled, I would risk getting stuck when I need
= > to go home tomorrow.  Also, my wife has a flight to Stockholm on<= BR>> Sunday.  So this is pretty disruptive.
>
> At lea= st there are chances that the sunset tonight will be enjoyable
> to w= atch.


__________________________________________________________=

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this li= st email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http= ://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Any livecams of the Iceland volcano? From: "Kareem J. Lanier" system98765@............. Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:02:29 -0700 I wanted to see if there were any live cams of the eruption. I thought I remember seeing someone had a link to cams but couldn't remember the link. Regards, Kareem J. Lanier

I wanted to see if there were any live cams of the = eruption. I thought I remember seeing someone had a link to cams but = couldn’t remember the link.

 

 

Regards,

Kareem J. Lanier

 

 

Subject: Re: Any livecams of the Iceland volcano? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:12:07 +0000 Hi Kareem, Here are the web cames that I know of. http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/ http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-valahnjuk/ http://www.vodafone.is/eldgos/en http://www.ruv.is/katla http://www.ruv.is/hekla There are clouds in the area and you cant see many things at the moment. But it might clear up at any time. Regards, J=C3=B3n Fr=C3=ADmann. On fim, 2010-04-15 at 10:02 -0700, Kareem J. Lanier wrote: > I wanted to see if there were any live cams of the eruption. I thought > I remember seeing someone had a link to cams but couldn=E2=80=99t remembe= r the > link. >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Kareem J. Lanier >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 --=20 J=C3=B3n Fr=C3=ADmann J=C3=B3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Any livecams of the Iceland volcano? From: Canie canie@........... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 15:37:54 -0700 There are these links as well - have a video on there: >>. on www.mbl.is and www.vedur.is Canie At 10:12 AM 4/15/2010, you wrote: >Hi Kareem, > >Here are the web cames that I know of. > >http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/ >http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-valahnjuk/ >http://www.vodafone.is/eldgos/en >http://www.ruv.is/katla >http://www.ruv.is/hekla > >There are clouds in the area and you cant see many things at the moment. >But it might clear up at any time. > >Regards, >J=C3=B3n Fr=C3=ADmann. > >On fim, 2010-04-15 at 10:02 -0700, Kareem J. Lanier wrote: > > I wanted to see if there were any live cams of the eruption. I thought > > I remember seeing someone had a link to cams but couldn=E2=80=99t= remember the > > link. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Kareem J. Lanier > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- >J=C3=B3n Fr=C3=ADmann J=C3=B3nsson > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. There are these links as well - have a video on there:
. on www.mbl.is and www.vedur.is  

Canie

At 10:12 AM 4/15/2010, you wrote:
Hi Kareem,

Here are the web cames that I know of.

http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/
http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-valahnjuk/
http://www.vodafone.is/eldgos/en
http://www.ruv.is/katla
http://www.ruv.is/hekla

There are clouds in the area and you cant see many things at the moment.
But it might clear up at any time.

Regards,
J=C3=B3n Fr=C3=ADmann.

On fim, 2010-04-15 at 10:02 -0700, Kareem J. Lanier wrote:
> I wanted to see if there were any live cams of the eruption. I thought
> I remember seeing someone had a link to cams but couldn=E2=80=99t remem= ber the
> link.
>
> 
>
> 
>
> Regards,
>
> Kareem J. Lanier
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
--
J=C3=B3n Fr=C3=ADmann J=C3=B3nsson

__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Re: Mexicali Quake.. From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:41:28 -0700 I have noticed too that the small aftershocks seem to be creeping slowly northward twords San Bernardino where they expect a lot of stress and strain exists due to lack of motion there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kareem J. Lanier" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:07 PM Subject: Mexicali Quake.. > Boy, it seems that the one M7.2 event is still influencing a large area > around the epicenter. There just seems to be many M3 to M4 quakes over a > large area. It's interesting to see all the activity that's occurring > between the San Jacinto and Elsinore Faults. There seems to be a cross area > of quakes connecting the two faults. > > > > > > Regards, > > Kareem J. Lanier > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Any livecams of the Iceland volcano? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 18:54:14 -0700 There goes the sea level rising another micro inch. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Canie" To: Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2010 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Any livecams of the Iceland volcano? There are these links as well - have a video on there: >>. on www.mbl.is and www.vedur.is Canie At 10:12 AM 4/15/2010, you wrote: >Hi Kareem, > >Here are the web cames that I know of. > >http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/ >http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-valahnjuk/ >http://www.vodafone.is/eldgos/en >http://www.ruv.is/katla >http://www.ruv.is/hekla > >There are clouds in the area and you cant see many things at the moment. >But it might clear up at any time. > >Regards, >Jón Frímann. > >On fim, 2010-04-15 at 10:02 -0700, Kareem J. Lanier wrote: > > I wanted to see if there were any live cams of the eruption. I thought > > I remember seeing someone had a link to cams but couldnâ?Tt remember the > > link. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Kareem J. Lanier > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- >Jón Frímann Jónsson > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Volcano eruption in =?iso-8859-1?Q?Eyjafjallaj=F6kull?= From: Steinar Midtskogen steinar@............. Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 08:04:44 +0200 [Jón Frímann] > The ash cloud is continues to reach 6 to 8 km high at the moment. But no > one knows if the eruption is going to get more powerful or not. Only > time is going to tell. From all over Norway there are reports of rain and snow falling that contain ash and of sulfur smell. The smell reached Oslo yesterday afternoon, but I have to say it was very faint, if at all present. The sunset was normal, so the situation at high altitudes must have been normal. Today parts of the Norwegian airspace might open, but the outlooks are worse further south in Europe. -- Steinar Midtskogen http://voksenlia.net/met/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Unknown event From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:03:43 -0400 Yesterday, at around 16:50, I recorded an event that looked like it was relatively close to me. It showed up in both the LF and HF channels of my SG sensor, but is much more prominent in the HF channel. It also shows up in the data from all of the stations in the network of which the Lamont-Doherty (PAL) is a member, again much clearer in the HF records. So far at least, it hasn't been reported in any of the listings that I am familiar with. Did anyone else snag this thing, or know what it was? Larry Conklin lconklin@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Real Time Display From: Richard Webb dwebb002@............. Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:04:47 -0400 Last week I set up my real-time display and now I seem to have run into some problems. I've set it up to upload every 5 minutes and page refresh every 30 seconds. If I start by forcing an upload, things work well for a number of hours. Then the page remains static until I force another upload. During those several hours, the page updates and refreshes correctly. Could sure use some advice on what I might be doing wrong. Dick. -- Richard Webb Raleigh, NC Farr and Webb Family Genealogy site: http://Genequake.com/Genealogy Family and Seismology site: http://Genequake.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Unknown event From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 18:33:41 -0700 Larry - I looked at the event and the wave form has the appearance of a low = magnitude local event. It is possible that the magnitude of the event = was below the cutoff threshold of M 2.5 which is used for display of = events. Bob Hancock On Apr 16, 2010, at 7:03 AM, Larry Conklin wrote: > Yesterday, at around 16:50, I recorded an event that looked like it = was relatively close to me. It showed up in both the LF and HF channels = of my SG sensor, but is much more prominent in the HF channel. It also = shows up in the data from all of the stations in the network of which = the Lamont-Doherty (PAL) is a member, again much clearer in the HF = records. So far at least, it hasn't been reported in any of the = listings that I am familiar with. >=20 > Did anyone else snag this thing, or know what it was? >=20 > Larry Conklin > lconklin@............ >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Unknown event From: Dave Saum dsaum@............ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:47:24 -0400 Hi Larry I think that Red Puma shows your event as 15Apr2010 16:35:17.0 72.0N 68.8W 33 mb=5.1 M*GSR BAFFIN BAY 1729 http://www.seismo.ethz.ch/redpuma/redpuma_ami_list.html For some reason this event is not recorded by USGS? I even recorded it on a 4.5 Hz geophone from Washington, DC. Dave Subject: Unknown event > From: Larry Conklin > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:03:43 -0400 > > Yesterday, at around 16:50, I recorded an event that looked like it was > relatively close to me. It showed up in both the LF and HF channels of > my SG sensor, but is much more prominent in the HF channel. It also > shows up in the data from all of the stations in the network of which > the Lamont-Doherty (PAL) is a member, again much clearer in the HF > records. So far at least, it hasn't been reported in any of the > listings that I am familiar with. > > Did anyone else snag this thing, or know what it was? > > Larry Conklin > lconklin@............ > > > 
Hi Larry
I think that Red Puma s=
hows your event as
15Apr2010 16:35:17.0 72.0N  68.8W 33 mb=3D5.1 =
M*GSR BAFFIN BAY                1729
= http://www.seismo.ethz.ch/redpuma/redpuma_ami_list.html

<= div>For some reason this event is not recorded by USGS?

I even recorded it on a 4.5 Hz geophone from Washington= , DC.

Dave

Subject: Unknown event
From: =A0 =A0Larry Conklin <lco= nklin@............>
Date: =A0 =A0Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:03:43 -0400

Yesterday, at around 16:50, I recorded an event that looked like it was
relatively close to me. =A0It showed up in both the LF and HF channels of my SG sensor, but is much more prominent in the HF channel. =A0It also
shows up in the data from all of the stations in the network of which
the Lamont-Doherty (PAL) is a member, again much clearer in the HF
records. =A0So far at least, it hasn't been reported in any of the
listings that I am familiar with.

Did anyone else snag this thing, or know what it was?

Larry Conklin
lconklin@............


Subject: Re: Unknown event From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:14:58 -0400 Well, the Baffin Bay event finally showed up in the cnss_14_fing list of events that is accessible from within Winquake, and the surface wave arrivals match my event pretty well. I'm a little surprised to see so much high frequency energy, given the distance (almost exactly 2000 miles straight north of me). But, I don't see any other plausible candidate. That list includes events as low as 1.0 and it's kind of odd that this relatively prominent event took so long to get posted. So far, it hasn't been included in the NEIC list for some reason. Larry On 4/17/2010 9:47 AM, Dave Saum wrote: > Hi Larry > I think that Red Puma shows your event as > 15Apr2010 16:35:17.0 72.0N 68.8W 33 mb=5.1 M*GSR BAFFIN BAY 1729 > http://www.seismo.ethz.ch/redpuma/redpuma_ami_list.html > > For some reason this event is not recorded by USGS? > > I even recorded it on a 4.5 Hz geophone from Washington, DC. > > Dave > > Subject: Unknown event > From: Larry Conklin > > Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:03:43 -0400 > > Yesterday, at around 16:50, I recorded an event that looked like > it was > relatively close to me. It showed up in both the LF and HF > channels of > my SG sensor, but is much more prominent in the HF channel. It also > shows up in the data from all of the stations in the network of which > the Lamont-Doherty (PAL) is a member, again much clearer in the HF > records. So far at least, it hasn't been reported in any of the > listings that I am familiar with. > > Did anyone else snag this thing, or know what it was? > > Larry Conklin > lconklin@............ > > Well, the Baffin Bay event finally showed up in the cnss_14_fing list of events that is accessible from within Winquake, and the surface wave
arrivals match my event pretty well.  I'm a little surprised to see so much high frequency energy, given the distance (almost exactly 2000 miles straight north of me).  But, I don't see any other plausible candidate.  That list includes events as low as 1.0 and it's kind of odd that this relatively prominent event took so long to get posted.  So far, it hasn't been included in the NEIC list for some reason.

Larry


On 4/17/2010 9:47 AM, Dave Saum wrote: 
Hi Larry
I think that Red Puma shows your event as
15Apr2010 16:35:17.0 72.0N  68.8W 33 mb=5.1 M*GSR BAFFIN BAY                1729
http://www.seismo.ethz.ch/redpuma/redpuma_ami_list.html

For some reason this event is not recorded by USGS?

I even recorded it on a 4.5 Hz geophone from Washington, DC.

Dave

Subject: Unknown event
From:    Larry Conklin <lconklin@............>
Date:    Fri, 16 Apr 2010 10:03:43 -0400

Yesterday, at around 16:50, I recorded an event that looked like it was
relatively close to me.  It showed up in both the LF and HF channels of
my SG sensor, but is much more prominent in the HF channel.  It also
shows up in the data from all of the stations in the network of which
the Lamont-Doherty (PAL) is a member, again much clearer in the HF
records.  So far at least, it hasn't been reported in any of the
listings that I am familiar with.

Did anyone else snag this thing, or know what it was?

Larry Conklin
lconklin@............


Subject: Re: Unknown event From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:25:05 -0500 Wyandotte Cave in the IU network shows this event while copy here in Evansville,IN on my equipment and USIN on the New Madrid network is not clear due to urban noise at that time. >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Real Time Display From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:29:46 -0700 Hi Dick, A little more information might be useful... Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 4/16/2010 7:04 AM, Richard Webb wrote: > Last week I set up my real-time display and now I seem to have run into > some problems. I've set it up to upload every 5 minutes and page > refresh every 30 seconds. If I start by forcing an upload, things work > well for a number of hours. Then the page remains static until I force > another upload. During those several hours, the page updates and > refreshes correctly. Could sure use some advice on what I might be > doing wrong. > > Dick. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Photos of lightning around =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Eyafallaj=F6kull_Vol?= From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2010 14:57:13 -0700 Hi Everyone, Some incredible photos of the Volcano can be found here: http://www.swisseduc.ch/stromboli/perm/iceland/eyafallajokull_20100416-en.html Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Volcanic tremor From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 18 Apr 2010 02:09:14 +0000 Hi all, On my station at Hekla you can now see the harmonic clearly. As there is almost no wind at all there this moment. The continued tremor makes the line as it is now. It is also recording pulses and other interesting thing from the volcano. My stations. http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/tremoren.htm Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: NEW Earthquake Cause From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:37:03 -0500 Perhaps, USGS has overlooked this theory? BEIRUT -- A senior Iranian cleric says women who wear revealing clothing and behave promiscuously are to blame for earthquakes. Iran is one of the world's most earthquake-prone countries, and the cleric's unusual explanation for why the earth shakes follows a prediction by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that a quake is certain to hit Tehran and that many of its 12 million inhabitants should relocate. "Many women who do not dress modestly ... lead young men astray, corrupt their chastity and spread adultery in society, which (consequently) increases earthquakes," Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi was quoted as saying by Iranian media.
Perhaps, USGS has overlooked this = theory?
 

BEIRUT -- A senior Iranian cleric says women who wear = revealing=20 clothing and behave promiscuously are to blame for earthquakes.

Iran is one of the world's most earthquake-prone = countries, and=20 the cleric's unusual explanation for why the earth shakes follows a = prediction=20 by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that a quake is certain to hit Tehran = and that=20 many of its 12 million inhabitants should relocate.

"Many women who do not dress modestly ... lead young = men=20 astray, corrupt their chastity and spread adultery in society, which=20 (consequently) increases earthquakes," Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi was = quoted as=20 saying by Iranian media.

Subject: Re: NEW Earthquake Cause From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 10:07:04 -0700 Sadly, these folks are lacking a university semester or two in the field of human sexuality. They stll live in the stone age and dont seem to realize we all are little more than animals in disguise. Animals similar to that which they hunt/kill/slaughter/cook and eat. :-) Something could be wrong in the traslation. It seems to me that you can not translate simply words from one language to another and still expect to be understood. You need to translate the exact and precise ideas and not the words alone. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: "PSN Network List" Sent: Monday, April 19, 2010 9:37 AM Subject: NEW Earthquake Cause > Perhaps, USGS has overlooked this theory? > > BEIRUT -- A senior Iranian cleric says women who wear revealing clothing and > behave promiscuously are to blame for earthquakes. > > Iran is one of the world's most earthquake-prone countries, and the cleric's > unusual explanation for why the earth shakes follows a prediction by > President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that a quake is certain to hit Tehran and that > many of its 12 million inhabitants should relocate. > > "Many women who do not dress modestly ... lead young men astray, corrupt > their chastity and spread adultery in society, which (consequently) > increases earthquakes," Hojatoleslam Kazem Sedighi was quoted as saying by > Iranian media. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista From: "Keith Payea" kpayea@.............. Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:15:40 -0700 Has anyone else had this problem? I have a new USB-to-RS232 adapter from Saelig. It works just fine with Larry's A/D board and Vista with one exception. If the system powers down or restarts, it will move to another COM port. This is really annoying, and confusing for the guy I set it up for. I can't change his OS, so don't even go there. Any ideas? Thanks, Keith Keith Payea Bryant Labs kpayea@.............. www.bryantlabs.net (707) 566-8935 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:36:23 -0700 Hi Keith, I have never seen this problem, but I don't use Vista... Do you know what IC chip is used in the adapter? Updating the driver from the manufacture may fix the problem. I have found that USB-to-RS232 adapters based on one of the FTDI chips (http://www.ftdichip.com/) work the best. If you can't get it to work right I would place a PCI or PCI-E RS232 Comm Port board into the computer. They can be purchased on eBay for under $20.00. Just make sure they have Vista drivers for the board. Regards, Larry Cochrane Webtronics On 4/22/2010 11:15 AM, Keith Payea wrote: > Has anyone else had this problem? I have a new USB-to-RS232 adapter from > Saelig. It works just fine with Larry's A/D board and Vista with one > exception. > > If the system powers down or restarts, it will move to another COM port. > This is really annoying, and confusing for the guy I set it up for. I can't > change his OS, so don't even go there. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Keith > > Keith Payea > Bryant Labs > kpayea@.............. > www.bryantlabs.net > (707) 566-8935 > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 11:50:01 -0700 Keith, Does the COM port go back to the same port on a reboot. If so then set the COM port to that port. Does WinSDR operate OK in Vista? Any issues? Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Keith Payea Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:16 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista Has anyone else had this problem? I have a new USB-to-RS232 adapter from Saelig. It works just fine with Larry's A/D board and Vista with one exception. If the system powers down or restarts, it will move to another COM port. This is really annoying, and confusing for the guy I set it up for. I can't change his OS, so don't even go there. Any ideas? Thanks, Keith Keith Payea Bryant Labs kpayea@.............. www.bryantlabs.net (707) 566-8935 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 17:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Hi Keith I bought a serial to usb cable at one of the box stores like Best Buy. Is t= here a chip in the plugs? I thought it was done in software. I do have a se= rial 12 bit ADC board that I bought to measure my sensors positions. It has= done something like what you say. I am running XP. I also have no problem = with Larry's board. I will have to remember the specifics but briefly, I ce= rtain situations on booting when going to the ADC board program it says tha= t the serial channel is not available. In my case it is 9. I then have to g= o into the control panel etc. I will try to remember in more detail, and ge= t back to you. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Thu, 4/22/10, Keith Payea wrote: From: Keith Payea Subject: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista To: psn-l@.............. Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 11:15 AM Has anyone else had this problem?=A0 I have a new USB-to-RS232 adapter from Saelig.=A0 It works just fine with Larry's A/D board and Vista with one exception. If the system powers down or restarts, it will move to another COM port. This is really annoying, and confusing for the guy I set it up for.=A0 I ca= n't change his OS, so don't even go there. Any ideas? Thanks, =A0 =A0 Keith =20 Keith Payea Bryant Labs kpayea@.............. www.bryantlabs.net (707) 566-8935 =20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) =
Hi Keith
I bought a serial to usb cable at= one of the box stores like Best Buy. Is there a chip in the plugs? I thoug= ht it was done in software. I do have a serial 12 bit ADC board that I boug= ht to measure my sensors positions. It has done something like what you say= .. I am running XP. I also have no problem with Larry's board. I will have t= o remember the specifics but briefly, I certain situations on booting when = going to the ADC board program it says that the serial channel is not avail= able. In my case it is 9. I then have to go into the control panel etc. I w= ill try to remember in more detail, and get back to you.

Regards
= Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

--- On Thu, 4/22/10, Keith = Payea <kpayea@..............> wrote:

From: Keith Payea <kpayea@..............>
Subjec= t: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista
To: psn-l@..............
Date: T= hursday, April 22, 2010, 11:15 AM

Has anyon= e else had this problem?  I have a new USB-to-RS232 adapter from
Sa= elig.  It works just fine with Larry's A/D board and Vista with oneexception.

If the system powers down or restarts, it will move to a= nother COM port.
This is really annoying, and confusing for the guy I se= t it up for.  I can't
change his OS, so don't even go there.
Any ideas?

Thanks,

    Keith

Keith PayeaBryant Labs
kpayea@..............
www.bryantla= bs.net
(707) 566-8935


__________________________________________________________

= Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email= PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
= the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismic= net.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Re: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 00:56:13 +0000 Hello Barry, Does this version of Windows Vista has Service Pack 2 installed or not ? There are numbers of fixes there in regards to all types of hardware and software. Please check that, and install Service pack 2 if it is not installed. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2010-04-22 at 17:30 -0700, Barry Lotz wrote: > Hi Keith > I bought a serial to usb cable at one of the box stores like Best Buy. > Is there a chip in the plugs? I thought it was done in software. I do > have a serial 12 bit ADC board that I bought to measure my sensors > positions. It has done something like what you say. I am running XP. I > also have no problem with Larry's board. I will have to remember the > specifics but briefly, I certain situations on booting when going to > the ADC board program it says that the serial channel is not > available. In my case it is 9. I then have to go into the control > panel etc. I will try to remember in more detail, and get back to you. >=20 > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com >=20 > --- On Thu, 4/22/10, Keith Payea wrote: > =20 > From: Keith Payea > Subject: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 11:15 AM > =20 > Has anyone else had this problem? I have a new USB-to-RS232 > adapter from > Saelig. It works just fine with Larry's A/D board and Vista > with one > exception. > =20 > If the system powers down or restarts, it will move to another > COM port. > This is really annoying, and confusing for the guy I set it up > for. I can't > change his OS, so don't even go there. > =20 > Any ideas? > =20 > Thanks, > =20 > Keith > =20 > Keith Payea > Bryant Labs > kpayea@.............. > www.bryantlabs.net > (707) 566-8935 > =20 > =20 > __________________________________________________________ > =20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > =20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. > =20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: NOTE about COM ports on IBM AT type Compatable Computers. From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2010 20:51:27 -0700 If you go into the Motherboard BIOS Id recommend you disable all but the one COM port you are using. Then Windows will see only that one com port. Not all BIOS-ES are created equal. Not all will let you be flexable. Make any telephone modem always be COM3 for best compatability with legacy programs. If you can fix things like com ports stable in your BIOS its the best way. Disable everything you do not use. Just a thought, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Posting Events Via HOTMAIL From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 04:34:08 -0700 Note about uploading event files: HOTMAIL REJECTED several times a file I tried to post so I removed a previously added subject line and left the file name then resent and only then the file would upload. It seems that the subject line can be created which is unacceptable to HOTMAIL. I never had such a similar thing happen before this time. Both files were the Southern California quakes near the Salton Sea as recorded by [GVA]. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Lehman set up From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 12:08:40 -0600 Hi Folks, Many of you have more experience in setting up a Lehman. I = have a basic question. Let's assume the frame and the horz arm are = parallel. The vertical column has two pivots points, for the arm, top = and bottom. The bottom pivot is a roller on roller and is not = adjustable. The top pivot is a wire, which carries the weight of the = arm. This wire has two adjustments. One is a slip nut, which allow = the suspension wire to be shorten or lengthen, and keeps the arm = parallel to the base. (The next adjustment on this top pivot wire is = an adjustment screw which moves this point forward or behind that of the = bottom pivot) This tilt off vertical is also controlled using the front adj. leg. My question is "as a starting point, should the top pivot point be = perfectly vertical to the bottom pivot point" Or should it be slightly = behind or in front of the bottom pivot point? I have set up several Lehman's, and really not paid much attention to = this. I think I have always started with them vertical and used the = front leg to move the top point behind the bottom pivots. I do know there's are lots of things to consider in this set up. but I = would like your opinion on this point, I think I understand the = others. Thanks, Ted
Hi Folks,   Many of you have = more=20 experience in setting up a Lehman.   I have a basic=20 question.   Let's assume the frame and the horz arm are=20 parallel.   The vertical column has two pivots points, for=20 the arm, top and bottom.   The bottom pivot is a = roller on=20 roller and is not adjustable.   The top pivot is a wire, which = carries=20 the weight of the arm.   This wire has two = adjustments.  =20 One is a slip nut, which allow the suspension wire to be shorten or = lengthen,=20 and keeps the arm parallel to the base.    (The next = adjustment=20 on this top pivot wire is an adjustment screw which moves this point = forward or=20 behind that of the bottom pivot)
 
This tilt off vertical is also = controlled using the=20 front adj. leg.
 
My question is "as a starting point, = should the top=20 pivot point be perfectly vertical to the bottom pivot point"   = Or=20 should it be slightly behind or in front of the bottom pivot = point?
 
I have set up several Lehman's, and = really not paid=20 much attention to this.    I think I have always started = with=20 them vertical and used the front leg to move the top point behind the = bottom=20 pivots.
 
I do know there's are lots of things to = consider in=20 this set up.   but I would like your opinion on this=20 point,   I think I understand the others.
 
Thanks, Ted
Subject: RE: Lehman set up From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 14:01:03 -0700 Ted, Think of the garden gate. When the top support is in Front of the bottom support, the gate will come to rest at the point where top support is most in front of the bottom support. Now as the top support is moved closer to the bottom support (raising front support leg) the gate's resonant frequency will get longer. Finally when the 2 supports line up, the gate will not return to where you want it, or an unstable Lehman. Gary From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Ted Channel Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 11:09 AM To: psn Subject: Lehman set up Hi Folks, Many of you have more experience in setting up a Lehman. I have a basic question. Let's assume the frame and the horz arm are parallel. The vertical column has two pivots points, for the arm, top and bottom. The bottom pivot is a roller on roller and is not adjustable. The top pivot is a wire, which carries the weight of the arm. This wire has two adjustments. One is a slip nut, which allow the suspension wire to be shorten or lengthen, and keeps the arm parallel to the base. (The next adjustment on this top pivot wire is an adjustment screw which moves this point forward or behind that of the bottom pivot) This tilt off vertical is also controlled using the front adj. leg. My question is "as a starting point, should the top pivot point be perfectly vertical to the bottom pivot point" Or should it be slightly behind or in front of the bottom pivot point? I have set up several Lehman's, and really not paid much attention to this. I think I have always started with them vertical and used the front leg to move the top point behind the bottom pivots. I do know there's are lots of things to consider in this set up. but I would like your opinion on this point, I think I understand the others. Thanks, Ted

Ted,

Think of the garden gate. When the top support is in = Front of the bottom support, the gate will come to rest at the point where top support is most in front of the bottom support. Now as the top support = is moved closer to the bottom support (raising front support leg) the gate's = resonant frequency will get longer. Finally when the 2 supports line up, the gate = will not return to where you want it, or an unstable = Lehman.

Gary

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Ted Channel
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 11:09 AM
To: psn
Subject: Lehman set up

 

Hi Folks,   Many of you have more experience in setting up a Lehman.   I have a basic question.   Let's assume = the frame and the horz arm are parallel.   The vertical column has two = pivots points, for the arm, top and bottom.   The bottom = pivot is a roller on roller and is not adjustable.   The top pivot is a = wire, which carries the weight of the arm.   This wire has two adjustments.   One is a slip nut, which allow the suspension = wire to be shorten or lengthen, and keeps the arm parallel to the base.    (The next adjustment on this top pivot wire is = an adjustment screw which moves this point forward or behind that of the = bottom pivot)

 

This tilt off vertical is also controlled using the front adj. = leg.

 

My question is "as a starting point, should the top pivot point be = perfectly vertical to the bottom pivot point"   Or should it be = slightly behind or in front of the bottom pivot point?

 

I have set up several Lehman's, and really not paid much attention to this.    I think I have always started with them vertical = and used the front leg to move the top point behind the bottom = pivots.

 

I do know there's are lots of things to consider in this set = up.   but I would like your opinion on this point,   I think I = understand the others.

 

Thanks, Ted

Subject: Latest Lehman Seismometers From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 14:31:26 -0700 Hello All, I have documented the latest update to my Lehman seismometer(s). See http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer There are several pictures and also a finite-element analysis of the Chapman magnet design. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

Hello All,

I have documented the latest update to my Lehman seismometer(s). See = http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer

There are several pictures and also a = finite-element analysis of the Chapman magnet design.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655<= /span>

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home<= /a>    Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

 

 

Subject: Re: Latest Lehman Seismometers From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 15:14:33 -0700 Hello Mr. Lindgren; I'm curious about the hinge assembly, Have you ever tried using a graphite surface as your resting surface for the ball bearing ? Have you ever tried a flexible membrane instead of a bearing surface where two seperate items come in contact ? If you have ever tried these before or do you know of anyone who has ?? Thanks for any input and, that really looks like a nice setup you have. " AS Magic-Sighs and Broom-Fondle rise from the sidelines to peek over your shoulders" Best regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Lindgren" To: Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 2:31 PM Subject: Latest Lehman Seismometers > Hello All, > > I have documented the latest update to my Lehman seismometer(s). See > http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer > > There are several pictures and also a finite-element analysis of the Chapman > magnet design. > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > Gary Lindgren > > 585 Lincoln Ave > > Palo Alto CA 94301 > > > > 650-326-0655 > > > > www.blue-eagle-technologies.com > Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading > > cymonsplace.blogspot.com > > > sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New > Vertical Seismometer > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Latest Lehman Seismometers From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:42:57 EDT In a message dated 23/04/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: I'm curious about the hinge assembly, Have you ever tried using a graphite surface as your resting surface for the ball bearing ? Hi Geoff, Graphite is not strong enough / hard enough. A ball would dig into the surface. A good cheap system is to use a 1/2" SS ball on the upright column and glue a clear bit of a SS scalpel blade to the end of the arm, preferably with two component acrylic glue. Ordinary Epoxy tends to be too brittle. Don't mount the ball on the end of the arm. It slips far too easily, at only ~5 degrees. Have you ever tried a flexible membrane instead of a bearing surface where two seperate items come in contact ? If you have ever tried these before or do you know of anyone who has ? The 1963 commercial Sprengnether horizontal used flexing wires top and bottom. Several commercial seismometers have used crossed foils top and bottom. See also _http://jclahr.com/science/psn/cor_psn.html_ (http://jclahr.com/science/psn/cor_psn.html) Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 23/04/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:
I'm=20 curious about the hinge assembly,
Have you ever tried using a graphit= e=20 surface as your resting surface for the ball bearing ?
Hi Geoff,
 
    Graphite is not strong enough / hard enough.= A ball=20 would dig into the surface.
    A good cheap system is to use a 1/2" SS ball= on the=20 upright column and glue a clear bit of a SS scalpel blade to the end of th= e arm,=20 preferably with two component acrylic glue. Ordinary Epoxy tends to be too= =20 brittle. Don't mount the ball on the end of the arm. It slips far too easi= ly, at=20 only ~5 degrees.
Have you=20 ever tried a flexible membrane instead of a bearing surface where two se= perate=20 items
come in contact ?
If you have ever tried these before or do= you=20 know of anyone who has ?
    The 1963 commercial Sprengnether horizontal= used=20 flexing wires top and bottom.
    Several commercial seismometers have used cro= ssed=20 foils top and bottom.
    See also http://jclahr.com/science/psn/cor_psn.html 
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Lehman set up From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 18:52:09 EDT In a message dated 23/04/2010 19:11:49 GMT Daylight Time, tchannel@............ writes: Many of you have more experience in setting up a Lehman. I have a basic question. Let's assume the frame and the horz arm are parallel. The vertical column has two pivots points, for the arm, top and bottom. The bottom pivot is a roller on roller and is not adjustable. The top pivot is a wire, which carries the weight of the arm. This wire has two adjustments. One is a slip nut, which allow the suspension wire to be shorten or lengthen, and keeps the arm parallel to the base. (The next adjustment on this top pivot wire is an adjustment screw which moves this point forward or behind that of the bottom pivot) This tilt off vertical is also controlled using the front adj. leg. Hi Ted, I suspect that you may be making life hard for yourself. You need one vertical top clamp for the wire. Then tilt the base to set the period. If the roller mounted on the frame is vertical, the arm swings about it's axis. The top wire should rotate about the edge of the clamp. The period is only stable when the vertical from the top suspension intersects the arm between the centre of rotation of the lower bearing and the mass. See _http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node15.html_ (http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node15.html) Fig 8a. The period of the pendulum T = 2xPixSqrt( L / gxsin(A)), where A is the angle between the vertical and the suspension axis. Using a 56cm pendulum, this is about 1/3 degree to get a 20 second period. g = 9.81 m/s/s and L is the length in metres from the suspension to the centre of gravity of the arm. If the vertical separation is 40cm, the offset is ~2.3mm. My question is "as a starting point, should the top pivot point be perfectly vertical to the bottom pivot point" No, see above. That would be neutral stability. I have set up several Lehman's, and really not paid much attention to this. I think I have always started with them vertical and used the front leg to move the top point behind the bottom pivots. The actual angle that the pendulum makes with the vertical has no effect for small angles. The period depends on the angle that the swing axis makes with the vertical. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 23/04/2010 19:11:49 GMT Daylight Time,=20 tchannel@............ writes:
Many of you have more experience in set= ting up a=20 Lehman. I have a basic question. Let's assume the frame and the horz arm= are=20 parallel. The vertical column has two pivots points, for=20 the arm, top and bottom. The bottom pivot is a roller on rolle= r and=20 is not adjustable. The top pivot is a wire, which carries the weight of= the=20 arm. This wire has two adjustments. One is a slip nut, which allow the= =20 suspension wire to be shorten or lengthen, and keeps the arm parallel to= the=20 base. (The next adjustment on this top pivot wire is an adjustment screw= which=20 moves this point forward or behind that of the bottom pivot)
 
This tilt off vertical is also controll= ed using=20 the front adj. leg.
Hi Ted,
 
    I suspect that you may be making life hard fo= r=20 yourself. You need one vertical top clamp for the wire. Then tilt the base= to=20 set the period. If the roller mounted on the frame is vertical, the arm sw= ings=20 about it's axis. The top wire should rotate about the edge of the clamp.= The=20 period is only stable when the vertical from the top suspension intersects= the=20 arm between the centre of rotation of the lower bearing and the=20 mass.  
    The period of the pendulum T =3D 2xPixSqrt(= L /=20 gxsin(A)), where A is the angle between the vertical and the suspensi= on=20 axis. Using a 56cm pendulum, this is about 1/3 degree to get a 20 second= period.=20 g =3D 9.81 m/s/s and L is the length in metres from the suspension to the= centre=20 of gravity of the arm. If the vertical separation is 40cm, the offset= is=20 ~2.3mm.
My question is "as a starting point, sh= ould the=20 top pivot point be perfectly vertical to the bottom pivot=20 point"
    No, see above. That would be neutral=20 stability.
I have set up several Lehman's, and rea= lly not=20 paid much attention to this. I think I have always started with them ver= tical=20 and used the front leg to move the top point behind the bottom=20 pivots.
    The actual angle that the pendulum makes with= the=20 vertical has no effect for small angles. The period depends on the angle= that=20 the swing axis makes with the vertical.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: RE: Latest Lehman Seismometers From: "Timothy Carpenter" geodynamics@....... Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 19:00:13 -0400 Gary, Very classy. I note that your prototype had its vertical bar set parallel to the boom while the new unit has the bar perpendicular to the boom. I didn't note anything in your commentary for the change (or did I miss it?). I suspect that there'd be no measurable difference either way, but my first reaction was that the bar should be orientated as in the prototype - because of potential warping due to differential thermal distributions. But that shouldn't really be a problem at this scale. Regards, -Tim- Timothy Carpenter 5043 Whitlow Ct. Commerce Twp., Michigan 48382 248-363-4529 248-766-1629 geodynamics@........... geodynamics@....... From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Gary Lindgren Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:31 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Latest Lehman Seismometers Hello All, I have documented the latest update to my Lehman seismometer(s). See http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer There are several pictures and also a finite-element analysis of the Chapman magnet design. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

Gary,

Very classy. I note that = your prototype had its vertical bar set parallel to the boom while the = new unit has the bar perpendicular to the boom. I didn’t note = anything in your commentary for the change (or did I miss it?). I = suspect that there’d be no measurable difference either way, but = my first reaction was that the bar should be orientated as in the = prototype – because of potential warping due to differential = thermal distributions. But that shouldn’t really be a problem at = this scale.

Regards,

-Tim-

 

Timothy = Carpenter

5043 Whitlow Ct.

Commerce Twp., Michigan = 48382

248-363-4529

248-766-1629

geodynamics@...........<= /o:p>

geodynamics@.......

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Gary Lindgren
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:31 = PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Latest Lehman = Seismometers

 

Hello = All,

I have documented the latest = update to my Lehman seismometer(s). See http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer =

There are several pictures and also = a finite-element analysis of the Chapman magnet design.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655<= /span>

 

www.blue-eagle-technolog= ies.com   Check out Lastest = Seismometer Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com 

sites.googl= e.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home    Design Details = for New Vertical Seismometer =

 

 

Subject: RE: Latest Lehman Seismometers From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 16:48:15 -0700 Tim, I'm not sure what you mean by 'prototype'. The only picture I had of the whole seismometer was Figure 1. The first unit I built 2 years ago is really the same thing and only difference was to use 2.5" bar stock and clean things up. Gary From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Timothy Carpenter Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:00 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: Latest Lehman Seismometers Gary, Very classy. I note that your prototype had its vertical bar set parallel to the boom while the new unit has the bar perpendicular to the boom. I didn't note anything in your commentary for the change (or did I miss it?). I suspect that there'd be no measurable difference either way, but my first reaction was that the bar should be orientated as in the prototype - because of potential warping due to differential thermal distributions. But that shouldn't really be a problem at this scale. Regards, -Tim- Timothy Carpenter 5043 Whitlow Ct. Commerce Twp., Michigan 48382 248-363-4529 248-766-1629 geodynamics@........... geodynamics@....... From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Gary Lindgren Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:31 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Latest Lehman Seismometers Hello All, I have documented the latest update to my Lehman seismometer(s). See http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer There are several pictures and also a finite-element analysis of the Chapman magnet design. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

Tim,

I'm not sure what you = mean by 'prototype'. The only picture I had of the whole seismometer was Figure = 1. The first unit I built 2 years ago is really the same thing and only = difference was to use 2.5" bar stock and clean things up.

Gary

 

 

 

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Timothy Carpenter
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:00 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: RE: Latest Lehman Seismometers

 

Gary,

Very classy. I note = that your prototype had its vertical bar set parallel to the boom while the new = unit has the bar perpendicular to the boom. I didn’t note anything in your = commentary for the change (or did I miss it?). I suspect that there’d be no = measurable difference either way, but my first reaction was that the bar should be orientated as in the prototype – because of potential warping due = to differential thermal distributions. But that shouldn’t really be a = problem at this scale.

Regards,

-Tim-

 

Timothy = Carpenter

5043 Whitlow = Ct.

Commerce Twp., = Michigan 48382

248-363-4529

248-766-1629

geodynamics@...........<= /o:p>

geodynamics@.......

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Gary = Lindgren
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:31 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Latest Lehman Seismometers

 

Hello All,

I have documented the latest update to my Lehman = seismometer(s). See http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer

There are several pictures and also a = finite-element analysis of the Chapman magnet design.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655<= /span>

 

www.blue-eagle-technolog= ies.com   Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com 

sites.googl= e.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home    Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

 

 

Subject: Re: Lehman set up From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 17:49:45 -0600 Thanks Chris and All, = http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node15.ht= ml Chris this is a helpful site. My question is similar to the = illustration Figure 7 (a) In this illustration the top pivot and bottom pivot are vertical on the = same line. (is this how I should align the pivots?) My Lehman and = others have the ability to move this top pivot behind or in front of = this line, before anything else is done. I am not saying I should, but = I can make such an adjustment. In setting up the frame I can align these two pivots as shown in this = illustration, in line...... The most obvious answer is to line both = pivots up on the same vertical line, as illustrated. BEFORE = attempting to set the period, using the front leg. =20 Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:52 PM Subject: Re: Lehman set up In a message dated 23/04/2010 19:11:49 GMT Daylight Time, = tchannel@............ writes: Many of you have more experience in setting up a Lehman. I have a = basic question. Let's assume the frame and the horz arm are parallel. = The vertical column has two pivots points, for the arm, top and bottom. = The bottom pivot is a roller on roller and is not adjustable. The top = pivot is a wire, which carries the weight of the arm. This wire has two = adjustments. One is a slip nut, which allow the suspension wire to be = shorten or lengthen, and keeps the arm parallel to the base. (The next = adjustment on this top pivot wire is an adjustment screw which moves = this point forward or behind that of the bottom pivot) This tilt off vertical is also controlled using the front adj. leg. Hi Ted,=20 I suspect that you may be making life hard for yourself. You need = one vertical top clamp for the wire. Then tilt the base to set the = period. If the roller mounted on the frame is vertical, the arm swings = about it's axis. The top wire should rotate about the edge of the clamp. = The period is only stable when the vertical from the top suspension = intersects the arm between the centre of rotation of the lower bearing = and the mass. =20 See = http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node15.ht= ml Fig 8a.=20 The period of the pendulum T =3D 2xPixSqrt( L / gxsin(A)), where A = is the angle between the vertical and the suspension axis. Using a 56cm = pendulum, this is about 1/3 degree to get a 20 second period. g =3D 9.81 = m/s/s and L is the length in metres from the suspension to the centre of = gravity of the arm. If the vertical separation is 40cm, the offset is = ~2.3mm. My question is "as a starting point, should the top pivot point be = perfectly vertical to the bottom pivot point" No, see above. That would be neutral stability. I have set up several Lehman's, and really not paid much attention = to this. I think I have always started with them vertical and used the = front leg to move the top point behind the bottom pivots. The actual angle that the pendulum makes with the vertical has no = effect for small angles. The period depends on the angle that the swing = axis makes with the vertical. Regards, Chris Chapman
Thanks Chris and All,   http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_ht= ml/node15.html =20 Chris this is a helpful site.   My question is similar to the=20 illustration Figure 7 (a)
In this illustration the top pivot and bottom pivot are vertical on = the=20 same line. (is this how I should align = the pivots?)  My=20 Lehman and others have the ability to move this top pivot behind or in = front of=20 this line, before anything else is done.   I am not saying I = should,=20 but I can make such an adjustment.
 
In setting up the frame I can align these two pivots as shown in = this=20 illustration, in line......   The most obvious answer is to = line both=20 pivots up on the same vertical line, as = illustrated.    =20 BEFORE attempting to set the period, using the front=20 leg.   
 
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 = 4:52=20 PM
Subject: Re: Lehman set = up

In a message dated 23/04/2010 19:11:49 GMT Daylight Time, tchannel@............ = writes:
Many of you have more experience in = setting up=20 a Lehman. I have a basic question. Let's assume the frame and the = horz arm=20 are parallel. The vertical column has two pivots points, for=20 the arm, top and bottom. The bottom pivot is a roller on = roller=20 and is not adjustable. The top pivot is a wire, which carries the = weight of=20 the arm. This wire has two adjustments. One is a slip nut, which = allow the=20 suspension wire to be shorten or lengthen, and keeps the arm = parallel to the=20 base. (The next adjustment on this top pivot wire is an adjustment = screw=20 which moves this point forward or behind that of the bottom=20 pivot)
 
This tilt off vertical is also = controlled using=20 the front adj. leg.
Hi Ted,
 
    I suspect that you may be making life = hard for=20 yourself. You need one vertical top clamp for the wire. Then tilt the = base to=20 set the period. If the roller mounted on the frame is vertical, the = arm swings=20 about it's axis. The top wire should rotate about the edge of the = clamp. The=20 period is only stable when the vertical from the top suspension = intersects the=20 arm between the centre of rotation of the lower bearing and the=20 mass.  
    See http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_ht= ml/node15.html Fig 8a. 
    The period of the pendulum T =3D = 2xPixSqrt( L /=20 gxsin(A)), where A is the angle between the vertical and the = suspension=20 axis. Using a 56cm pendulum, this is about 1/3 degree to get a 20 = second=20 period. g =3D 9.81 m/s/s and L is the length in metres from the = suspension to=20 the centre of gravity of the arm. If the vertical separation is = 40cm, the=20 offset is ~2.3mm.
My question is "as a starting = point, should the=20 top pivot point be perfectly vertical to the bottom pivot=20 point"
    No, see above. That would be neutral=20 stability.
I have set up several Lehman's, and = really not=20 paid much attention to this. I think I have always started with them = vertical and used the front leg to move the top point behind the = bottom=20 pivots.
    The actual angle that the pendulum makes = with the=20 vertical has no effect for small angles. The period depends on the = angle that=20 the swing axis makes with the vertical.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris=20 Chapman
Subject: RE: Latest Lehman Seismometers From: "Timothy Carpenter" geodynamics@....... Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2010 20:14:53 -0400 Gary, Sorry for the blunder. While looking at your site, I hit your hotlink to Chris Chapman's site. At the top of that page is a photo entitled "Prototype". And of course it is his prototype, not yours. So, comparing his prototype with your Figure 1, we see that your vertical post is rotated 90 degrees from that of Chris's unit. Is there a particular reason you changed the orientation other than to facilitate assembly? Regards, -Tim- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Gary Lindgren Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 7:48 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: Latest Lehman Seismometers Tim, I'm not sure what you mean by 'prototype'. The only picture I had of the whole seismometer was Figure 1. The first unit I built 2 years ago is really the same thing and only difference was to use 2.5" bar stock and clean things up. Gary From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Timothy Carpenter Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 4:00 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: Latest Lehman Seismometers Gary, Very classy. I note that your prototype had its vertical bar set parallel to the boom while the new unit has the bar perpendicular to the boom. I didn't note anything in your commentary for the change (or did I miss it?). I suspect that there'd be no measurable difference either way, but my first reaction was that the bar should be orientated as in the prototype - because of potential warping due to differential thermal distributions. But that shouldn't really be a problem at this scale. Regards, -Tim- Timothy Carpenter 5043 Whitlow Ct. Commerce Twp., Michigan 48382 248-363-4529 248-766-1629 geodynamics@........... geodynamics@....... From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Gary Lindgren Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:31 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Latest Lehman Seismometers Hello All, I have documented the latest update to my Lehman seismometer(s). See http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer There are several pictures and also a finite-element analysis of the Chapman magnet design. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

Gary,

Sorry for the blunder. = While looking at your site, I hit your hotlink to Chris Chapman’s = site. At the top of that page is a photo entitled = “Prototype”. And of course it is his prototype, not yours. = So, comparing his prototype with your Figure 1, we see that your = vertical post is rotated 90 degrees from that of Chris’s unit. Is = there a particular reason you changed the orientation other than to = facilitate assembly?

Regards,

-Tim-

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Gary Lindgren
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 7:48 = PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: RE: Latest = Lehman Seismometers

 

Tim,

I'm not sure what you = mean by 'prototype'. The only picture I had of the whole seismometer was = Figure 1. The first unit I built 2 years ago is really the same thing = and only difference was to use 2.5" bar stock and clean things = up.

Gary

 

 

 

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Timothy Carpenter
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 = 4:00 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: RE: Latest = Lehman Seismometers

 

Gary,

Very classy. I note that = your prototype had its vertical bar set parallel to the boom while the = new unit has the bar perpendicular to the boom. I didn’t note = anything in your commentary for the change (or did I miss it?). I = suspect that there’d be no measurable difference either way, but = my first reaction was that the bar should be orientated as in the = prototype – because of potential warping due to differential = thermal distributions. But that shouldn’t really be a problem at = this scale.

Regards,

-Tim-

 

Timothy = Carpenter

5043 Whitlow Ct.

Commerce Twp., Michigan = 48382

248-363-4529

248-766-1629

geodynamics@...........<= /o:p>

geodynamics@.......

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Gary Lindgren
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 5:31 = PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Latest Lehman = Seismometers

 

Hello = All,

I have documented the latest = update to my Lehman seismometer(s). See http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer =

There are several pictures and also = a finite-element analysis of the Chapman magnet design.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655<= /span>

 

www.blue-eagle-technolog= ies.com   Check out Lastest = Seismometer Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com 

sites.googl= e.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home    Design Details = for New Vertical Seismometer =

 

 

Subject: Laser Pointer / Mirrors etc... From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 10:13:32 -0700 Hello Psn, I have this laser pointer and was just wondering how it might be used with mirrors to detect ground motions ? How about two silvered surfaced mirrors that bounce the light between them at a slight angle sort of like you see yourself a zillion times in a mirror at the barber shop ?? a teeter totter mirror bouncing off a light beam ? What kind of sensor for a red LED laser pointer ?? Any ideas ? Regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Laser Pointer / Mirrors etc... From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:28:30 EDT In a message dated 24/04/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: I have this laser pointer and was just wondering how it might be used with mirrors to detect ground motions ? Hi Geoff, It is NO USE. These small lasers are VERY noisy and the intensity drifts a lot with temperature. How about two silvered surfaced mirrors that bounce the light between them at a slight angle sort of like you see yourself a zillion times in a mirror at the barber shop ?? a teeter totter mirror bouncing off a light beam ? What kind of sensor for a red LED laser pointer ? Any ideas ? A couple of large area silicon photocells and a small filament bulb work very well. In some measurements I found that I could resolve motions down to less than 15 nano metres. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 24/04/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:
I have=20 this laser pointer and was just wondering how it might be used with mirr= ors to=20 detect ground motions ?
Hi Geoff,
 
    It is NO USE. These small lasers are VERY noi= sy and=20 the intensity drifts a lot with temperature.
How=20 about two silvered surfaced mirrors that bounce the light
between the= m at a=20 slight angle sort of like you see yourself
a zillion times in a mirro= r at=20 the barber shop ??
a teeter totter mirror bouncing off a light beam= =20 ?

What kind of sensor for a red LED laser pointer ?
    Any ideas ?
 
    A couple of large area silicon pho= tocells and=20 a small filament bulb work very well. In some measurements I found that I= could=20 resolve motions down to less than 15 nano metres.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
 
Subject: Re: Lehman set up From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 19:14:11 EDT In a message dated 24/04/2010, tchannel@............ writes: Thanks _http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node15.html_ (http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node15.html) Chris this is a helpful site. My question is similar to the illustration Figure 7 (a) In this illustration the top pivot and bottom pivot are vertical on the same line. (is this how I should align the pivots?) My Lehman and others have the ability to move this top pivot behind or in front of this line, before anything else is done. I am not saying I should, but I can make such an adjustment. Hi Ted, I deliberately did not refer to Fig 7a. This shows NEUTRAL stability. I use something equivalent to Fig 8a, with Alpha set to only about 0.3 degree - the top flexure is displaced from the vertical towards the mass end by about 2.5 mm for a 40 cm vertical position difference between the suspension points. There is a definite advantage in making the boom lie parallel to the frame, with the damping and sensor systems all aligned parallel, but then tilting the whole assembly up at the mass end to actually set the period. The setup is then separate sequential operations which are not interdependent. I deliberately avoided using a nipple for the top suspension. They are difficult to make and they don't actually CLAMP the wire! There must be NO 'free play'. Also, I use finer wire, about 12 thou OD. I use two bronze disks, about 0.15" thick. They are dished on the inside faces by about 15 thou to leave a 1 mm wide rim on the periphery. The wire is clamped between these rims on opposite sides of the disk. The hole for the clamp bolt is offset from the disk centre by 1/8" to allow for adjustment. The disks can then be rotated as a pair to offset the clamp position exactly. The wire goes through a hole in the clamp bolt, which is aligned and glued to the upright column. See _http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg_ (http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg) >> In setting up the frame I can align these two pivots as shown in this illustration, in line...... The most obvious answer is to line both pivots up on the same vertical line, as illustrated. BEFORE attempting to set the period, using the front leg. If you set up the system to give neutral stability with the frame horizontal, you may not be able to lower the mass end of the frame enough to give the period that you want, before it hits the floor! Note that the three adjustment bolts use a wavy spring washer and a locknut to prevent any rotation after they have been adjusted. This seems to prevent any rocking in the threads. Crossed foil and Cardan suspensions do need to be accurately aligned vertically. Note also that I have used a V wire top suspension made from 30 lb SS fishing trace with crimped loop ends. This prevents the arm from rocking about it's longitudinal axis. It proved to be very difficult to balance the drag from the damper accurately enough using a single wire. If the arm can rotate about it's long axis, you get spurious signals generated, especially since this motion is not usually damped. I tested my system by setting it up to give a stable period of 60 seconds. It behaved perfectly. I then reduced the period to about 25 seconds for normal operation. You are limited in the maximum period that you can set by the extreme sensitivity to tiny tilt drifts as the ground heaves naturally with changes in air pressure, temperature and rainfall. The shorter arm Sprengnethers were usually run at 15 seconds period to limit their natural tilt drift, although they were specified to be used at periods up to 30 seconds. I hope that this all makes sense. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 24/04/2010, tchannel@............ writes:
Thanks  http://www.geophys.uni-s= tuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node15.html =20 Chris this is a helpful site. My question is similar to the illustr= ation=20 Figure 7 (a)
In this illustration the top pivot and bottom pivot are vertical on= the=20 same line. (is this how I should align the pivots?)&= nbsp;=20 My Lehman and others have the ability to move this top pivot behind or= in=20 front of this line, before anything else is done.  I am not saying= I=20 should, but I can make such an adjustment.
Hi Ted,
    
    I deliberately did not refer to Fig 7a. This= shows=20 NEUTRAL stability. I use something equivalent to Fig 8a, with Alpha set to= only=20 about 0.3 degree - the top flexure is displaced from the vertical towards= the=20 mass end by about 2.5 mm for a 40 cm vertical position difference between= the=20 suspension points.
 
    There is a definite advantage in making= the=20 boom lie parallel to the frame, with the damping and sensor systems all al= igned=20 parallel, but then tilting the whole assembly up at the mass end to actual= ly set=20 the period. The setup is then separate sequential operations which are not= =20 interdependent.
 
    I deliberately avoided using a nipple for the= top=20 suspension. They are difficult to make and they don't actually CLAMP the= wire!=20 There must be NO 'free play'. Also, I use finer wire, about 12 thou= OD. I=20 use two bronze disks, about 0.15" thick. They are dished on the inside fac= es by=20 about 15 thou to leave a 1 mm wide rim on the periphery. The wire is clamp= ed=20 between these rims on opposite sides of the disk. The hole for the cl= amp=20 bolt is offset from the disk centre by 1/8" to allow for adjustment. = The=20 disks can then be rotated as a pair to offset the clamp position exactly.= The=20 wire goes through a hole in the clamp bolt, which is aligned and glued to= the=20 upright column. See http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman= /2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg    
 
>>    In setting up the frame I= can align=20 these two pivots as shown in this illustration, in line......  The mo= st=20 obvious answer is to line both pivots up on the same vertical line, as=20 illustrated.  BEFORE attempting to set the period, using the front=20 leg.   
 
    If you set up the system to give= neutral=20 stability with the frame horizontal, you may not be able to lower the mass= end=20 of the frame enough to give the period that you want, before it hits the= floor!=20 Note that the three  adjustment bolts use a wavy spring washer and a= =20 locknut to prevent any rotation after they have been adjusted. This seems= to=20 prevent any rocking in the threads.
 
    Crossed foil and Cardan suspensions do need= to be=20 accurately aligned vertically.
 
    Note also that I have used a V wir= e top=20 suspension made from 30 lb SS fishing trace with crimped loop ends. This= =20 prevents the arm from rocking about it's longitudinal axis. It proved to= be very=20 difficult to balance the drag from the damper accurately enough using= a=20 single wire. If the arm can rotate about it's long axis, you get spurious= =20 signals generated, especially since this motion is not usually=20 damped.
 
    I tested my system by setting it= up to give a=20 stable period of 60 seconds. It behaved perfectly. I then reduced the peri= od to=20 about 25 seconds for normal operation. You are limited in the maximum peri= od=20 that you can set by the extreme sensitivity to tiny tilt drifts as the gro= und=20 heaves naturally with changes in air pressure, temperature and rainfall.= The=20 shorter arm Sprengnethers were usually run at 15 seconds period to limit= their=20 natural tilt drift, although they were specified to be used at periods up= to 30=20 seconds.
 
    I hope that this all makes sense.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Lehman set up From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:29:26 -0600 Yes Chris I understand your comments, Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 5:14 PM Subject: Re: Lehman set up In a message dated 24/04/2010, tchannel@............ writes: Thanks = http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_html/node15.ht= ml Chris this is a helpful site. My question is similar to the = illustration Figure 7 (a) In this illustration the top pivot and bottom pivot are vertical on = the same line. (is this how I should align the pivots?) My Lehman and = others have the ability to move this top pivot behind or in front of = this line, before anything else is done. I am not saying I should, but = I can make such an adjustment. Hi Ted, =20 I deliberately did not refer to Fig 7a. This shows NEUTRAL = stability. I use something equivalent to Fig 8a, with Alpha set to only = about 0.3 degree - the top flexure is displaced from the vertical = towards the mass end by about 2.5 mm for a 40 cm vertical position = difference between the suspension points. There is a definite advantage in making the boom lie parallel to = the frame, with the damping and sensor systems all aligned parallel, but = then tilting the whole assembly up at the mass end to actually set the = period. The setup is then separate sequential operations which are not = interdependent. I deliberately avoided using a nipple for the top suspension. They = are difficult to make and they don't actually CLAMP the wire! There must = be NO 'free play'. Also, I use finer wire, about 12 thou OD. I use two = bronze disks, about 0.15" thick. They are dished on the inside faces by = about 15 thou to leave a 1 mm wide rim on the periphery. The wire is = clamped between these rims on opposite sides of the disk. The hole for = the clamp bolt is offset from the disk centre by 1/8" to allow for = adjustment. The disks can then be rotated as a pair to offset the clamp = position exactly. The wire goes through a hole in the clamp bolt, which = is aligned and glued to the upright column. See = http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg = =20 >> In setting up the frame I can align these two pivots as shown in = this illustration, in line...... The most obvious answer is to line = both pivots up on the same vertical line, as illustrated. BEFORE = attempting to set the period, using the front leg. =20 If you set up the system to give neutral stability with the frame = horizontal, you may not be able to lower the mass end of the frame = enough to give the period that you want, before it hits the floor! Note = that the three adjustment bolts use a wavy spring washer and a locknut = to prevent any rotation after they have been adjusted. This seems to = prevent any rocking in the threads.=20 Crossed foil and Cardan suspensions do need to be accurately = aligned vertically.=20 Note also that I have used a V wire top suspension made from 30 lb = SS fishing trace with crimped loop ends. This prevents the arm from = rocking about it's longitudinal axis. It proved to be very difficult to = balance the drag from the damper accurately enough using a single wire. = If the arm can rotate about it's long axis, you get spurious signals = generated, especially since this motion is not usually damped. I tested my system by setting it up to give a stable period of 60 = seconds. It behaved perfectly. I then reduced the period to about 25 = seconds for normal operation. You are limited in the maximum period that = you can set by the extreme sensitivity to tiny tilt drifts as the ground = heaves naturally with changes in air pressure, temperature and rainfall. = The shorter arm Sprengnethers were usually run at 15 seconds period to = limit their natural tilt drift, although they were specified to be used = at periods up to 30 seconds. I hope that this all makes sense.=20 Regards, Chris Chapman
Yes  Chris I understand your comments,
Thanks, Ted
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 = 5:14=20 PM
Subject: Re: Lehman set = up

In a message dated 24/04/2010, tchannel@............ = writes:
Thanks  http://www.geophys.uni-stuttgart.de/oldwww/seismometry/man_ht= ml/node15.html =20 Chris this is a helpful site. My question is similar to the=20 illustration Figure 7 (a)
In this illustration the top pivot and bottom pivot are = vertical on the=20 same line. (is this how I should align=20 the pivots?)  My Lehman and others have the ability to = move this=20 top pivot behind or in front of this line, before anything else is=20 done.  I am not saying I should, but I can make such an=20 adjustment.
Hi Ted,
    
    I deliberately did not refer to Fig 7a. = This=20 shows NEUTRAL stability. I use something equivalent to Fig 8a, with = Alpha set=20 to only about 0.3 degree - the top flexure is displaced from the = vertical=20 towards the mass end by about 2.5 mm for a 40 cm vertical position = difference=20 between the suspension points.
 
    There is a definite advantage in = making the=20 boom lie parallel to the frame, with the damping and sensor systems = all=20 aligned parallel, but then tilting the whole assembly up at the mass = end to=20 actually set the period. The setup is then separate sequential = operations=20 which are not interdependent.
 
    I deliberately avoided using a nipple for = the top=20 suspension. They are difficult to make and they don't actually CLAMP = the wire!=20 There must be NO 'free play'. Also, I use finer wire, about 12 = thou OD. I=20 use two bronze disks, about 0.15" thick. They are dished on the inside = faces=20 by about 15 thou to leave a 1 mm wide rim on the periphery. The wire = is=20 clamped between these rims on opposite sides of the disk. = The hole for=20 the clamp bolt is offset from the disk centre by 1/8" to allow for=20 adjustment. The disks can then be rotated as a pair to offset the = clamp=20 position exactly. The wire goes through a hole in the clamp bolt, = which is=20 aligned and glued to the upright column. See http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_proto= type.jpg    
 
>>    In setting up the frame I = can align=20 these two pivots as shown in this illustration, in line......  = The most=20 obvious answer is to line both pivots up on the same vertical line, as = illustrated.  BEFORE attempting to set the period, using the = front=20 leg.   
 
    If you set up the system to give = neutral=20 stability with the frame horizontal, you may not be able to lower the = mass end=20 of the frame enough to give the period that you want, before it hits = the=20 floor! Note that the three  adjustment bolts use a wavy spring = washer and=20 a locknut to prevent any rotation after they have been adjusted. This = seems to=20 prevent any rocking in the threads.
 
    Crossed foil and Cardan suspensions do = need to be=20 accurately aligned vertically.
 
    Note also that I have used a V = wire top=20 suspension made from 30 lb SS fishing trace with crimped loop ends. = This=20 prevents the arm from rocking about it's longitudinal axis. It proved = to be=20 very difficult to balance the drag from the damper accurately = enough=20 using a single wire. If the arm can rotate about it's long axis, you = get=20 spurious signals generated, especially since this motion is not = usually=20 damped.
 
    I tested my system by setting it = up to give=20 a stable period of 60 seconds. It behaved perfectly. I then reduced = the period=20 to about 25 seconds for normal operation. You are limited in the = maximum=20 period that you can set by the extreme sensitivity to tiny tilt drifts = as the=20 ground heaves naturally with changes in air pressure, temperature and=20 rainfall. The shorter arm Sprengnethers were usually run at 15 seconds = period=20 to limit their natural tilt drift, although they were specified to be = used at=20 periods up to 30 seconds.
 
    I hope that this all makes sense.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris=20 Chapman
Subject: Re: Laser Pointer / Mirrors etc... From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:57:45 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 2:28 PM Subject: Re: Laser Pointer / Mirrors etc... > In a message dated 24/04/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: > > I have this laser pointer and was just wondering how it might be used with > mirrors to detect ground motions ? > Hi Geoff, > > It is NO USE. These small lasers are VERY noisy and the intensity > drifts a lot with temperature. Ok, Ill just use it to help balance the cieling fans. > > How about two silvered surfaced mirrors that bounce the light > between them at a slight angle sort of like you see yourself > a zillion times in a mirror at the barber shop ?? > a teeter totter mirror bouncing off a light beam ? > > What kind of sensor for a red LED laser pointer ? > Any ideas ? > > A couple of large area silicon photocells and a small filament bulb > work very well. In some measurements I found that I could resolve motions > down to less than 15 nano metres. None of this makes sense to me. Wonderful things has been done with light like taking microsecond photographs with mirrors. I would think a no-mass lightbeam might be the very best way to go if someone can figure it out. Somewhere is something so simple and straight forward it must be a military secret. :-( > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Magnigication...microscope seismometer From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:10:01 -0700 Has anyone tried to use a microscope for measuring small motions or magnified video cameras ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Magnigication...microscope seismometer From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:00:11 EDT In a message dated 25/04/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: Has anyone tried to use a microscope for measuring small motions or magnified video cameras ? Hi Geoff, You are then limited by the wavelength of the light, which is about 1/2 micron. You need resolutions of 1/10 to 1/100 of this for earthquakes. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 25/04/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:
Has=20 anyone tried to use a microscope for measuring small motions or
magni= fied=20 video cameras ?
Hi Geoff,
 
    You are then limited by the wavelength of the= =20 light, which is about 1/2 micron. You need resolutions of 1/10 to 1/100 of= this=20 for earthquakes.  
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Magnigication...microscope seismometer From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 23:02:33 EDT In a message dated 25/04/2010 02:10:35 GMT Daylight Time, gmvoeth@........... writes: Has anyone tried to use a microscope for measuring small motions or magnified video cameras ?
In a message dated 25/04/2010 02:10:35 GMT Daylight Time,=20 gmvoeth@........... writes:
Has=20 anyone tried to use a microscope for measuring small motions or
magni= fied=20 video cameras ?
 
Subject: RE: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista From: "Keith Payea" kpayea@.............. Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:52:36 -0700 Hello All: Thanks for all of the ideas. The folks a Saelig have been very helpful, and they are sending me a new cable, convinced that there is a hardware problem. In addition to the USB-to serial port converter chip there is also an EEPROM inside the adapter that keeps track of settings. It may be that it has failed, so each power cycle brings a new setting. Cheers, Keith From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Barry Lotz Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:30 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista Hi Keith I bought a serial to usb cable at one of the box stores like Best Buy. Is there a chip in the plugs? I thought it was done in software. I do have a serial 12 bit ADC board that I bought to measure my sensors positions. It has done something like what you say. I am running XP. I also have no problem with Larry's board. I will have to remember the specifics but briefly, I certain situations on booting when going to the ADC board program it says that the serial channel is not available. In my case it is 9. I then have to go into the control panel etc. I will try to remember in more detail, and get back to you. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Thu, 4/22/10, Keith Payea wrote: From: Keith Payea Subject: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista To: psn-l@.............. Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 11:15 AM Has anyone else had this problem? I have a new USB-to-RS232 adapter from Saelig. It works just fine with Larry's A/D board and Vista with one exception. If the system powers down or restarts, it will move to another COM port. This is really annoying, and confusing for the guy I set it up for. I can't change his OS, so don't even go there. Any ideas? Thanks, Keith Keith Payea Bryant Labs kpayea@.............. www.bryantlabs.net (707) 566-8935 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

Hello All:

 

Thanks for all of the ideas.  The folks a Saelig = have been very helpful, and they are sending me a new cable, convinced that there is a hardware problem.  In addition to the USB-to serial port converter = chip there is also an EEPROM inside the adapter that keeps track of settings.  = It may be that it has failed, so each power cycle brings a new = setting.

 

Cheers,

 

         &nbs= p;      Keith

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Barry Lotz
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:30 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: USB Serial Ports in Windows = Vista

 

Hi Keith
I bought a serial to usb cable at one of the box stores like Best Buy. = Is there a chip in the plugs? I thought it was done in software. I do = have a serial 12 bit ADC board that I bought to measure my sensors positions. = It has done something like what you say. I am running XP. I also have no = problem with Larry's board. I will have to remember the specifics but briefly, = I certain situations on booting when going to the ADC board program it = says that the serial channel is not available. In my case it is 9. I then = have to go into the control panel etc. I will try to remember in more detail, = and get back to you.

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

--- On Thu, 4/22/10, Keith Payea = <kpayea@..............> wrote:


From: Keith Payea <kpayea@..............>
Subject: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 11:15 AM

Has anyone else had this problem?  I have a = new USB-to-RS232 adapter from
Saelig.  It works just fine with Larry's A/D board and Vista with = one
exception.

If the system powers down or restarts, it will move to another COM = port.
This is really annoying, and confusing for the guy I set it up = for.  I can't
change his OS, so don't even go there.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

    Keith

Keith Payea
Bryant Labs
kpayea@..............=
www.bryantlabs.net
(707) 566-8935


__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEIS= MICNET.COM with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

 =

Subject: Re: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista From: "David Saum" DSaum@............ Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2010 08:18:14 -0400 (EDT) Keith I have a related problem. If I move the adapter to another USB port, it creates a new serial port #. I do not always remember to use the same USB port each time I restart the PC and plug the adapter in. But I can move the adapter back to the original USB port to get the original serial port number. I am using a 4 com port USB adapter, so it creates 5,6,7,8 on the first USB port I use, and then 9,10,11,12 on the next, etc Another problem I came across was finding drivers for Vista 64. But I think that http://www.cablestogo.com has a complete set of drivers for all windows varients. Dave http://www.infiltec.com/seismo/qm45.htm > From: Keith Payea > Subject: USB Serial Ports in Windows Vista > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Thursday, April 22, 2010, 11:15 AM > > Has anyone else had this problem? I have a new USB-to-RS232 adapter from > Saelig. It works just fine with Larry's A/D board and Vista with one > exception. > > If the system powers down or restarts, it will move to another COM port. > This is really annoying, and confusing for the guy I set it up for. I > can't > change his OS, so don't even go there. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks, > > Keith > > Keith Payea > Bryant Labs > kpayea@.............. > www.bryantlabs.net > (707) 566-8935 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Failed power converter From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2010 20:56:12 +0000 Hi all, The power converter for my seismomter (the boards) has failed. Until the power converter can be replaced. My Hvammstangi geophone is going to remain offline. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: WinSDR From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 07:56:22 -0600 Hi Folks, I have been using WindSDR for some time now. I have a = question, perhaps one of you can help me with. In "replay" If I go back to copy an earlier event which fall near the = 24:00:00 time line, the replay screen end at 24:00:00 hrs. Let's say an earthquake occurred at 23:00:00 and continued for 4 hours, = starting at 23:00:00 ending at 03:00:00. How do I copy, and save the event, in "replay"? If the event in recent and visible on the screen, I can just copy and = save it with no problem. It is only in replay, and it is only when the event involves part of two = different days, where I have the problem. Thanks, Ted
Hi Folks,  I have been using = WindSDR for some=20 time now.  I have a question, perhaps one of you can help me=20 with.
 
In "replay"  If I go back to copy = an earlier=20 event which fall near the 24:00:00 time line, the replay screen end at = 24:00:00=20 hrs.
 
Let's say an earthquake occurred at = 23:00:00 and=20 continued for 4 hours,  starting at 23:00:00 ending at=20 03:00:00.
 
How do I copy, and save the event, in=20 "replay"?
 
If the event in recent and visible on = the screen, I=20 can just copy and save it with no problem.
 
It is only in replay, and it is only = when the event=20 involves part of two different days, where I have the = problem.
 
Thanks, Ted
Subject: Re: WinSDR From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 10:23:01 -0400 Ted Check with Karl Cunningham. He has something that may do what you want. Regards, Brett At 09:56 AM 4/29/2010, you wrote: >Hi Folks, I have been using WindSDR for some time now. I have a >question, perhaps one of you can help me with. > >In "replay" If I go back to copy an earlier event which fall near >the 24:00:00 time line, the replay screen end at 24:00:00 hrs. > >Let's say an earthquake occurred at 23:00:00 and continued for 4 >hours, starting at 23:00:00 ending at 03:00:00. > >How do I copy, and save the event, in "replay"? > >If the event in recent and visible on the screen, I can just copy >and save it with no problem. > >It is only in replay, and it is only when the event involves part of >two different days, where I have the problem. > >Thanks, Ted __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: WinSDR From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 11:43:09 -0700 Ted - This is not a problem. Just bring up the replay window and set your = start time. In the window where you list the amount of time, don't = worry if the time goes beyond what is displayed. When the file displays = in WinQuake, it is a continuous file from whatever time/date to the = following date and time. For example if you start the display at 2300, and list 240 minutes in = the Save Time window, the saved file will show continuous for 240 = minutes, from 2300 on whatever date to 0300 on the following date. =20 Bob Hancock On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:56 AM, Ted Channel wrote: > Hi Folks, I have been using WindSDR for some time now. I have a = question, perhaps one of you can help me with. > =20 > In "replay" If I go back to copy an earlier event which fall near the = 24:00:00 time line, the replay screen end at 24:00:00 hrs. > =20 > Let's say an earthquake occurred at 23:00:00 and continued for 4 = hours, starting at 23:00:00 ending at 03:00:00. > =20 > How do I copy, and save the event, in "replay"? > =20 > If the event in recent and visible on the screen, I can just copy and = save it with no problem. > =20 > It is only in replay, and it is only when the event involves part of = two different days, where I have the problem. > =20 > Thanks, Ted
Ted -

This is not a = problem.  Just bring up the replay window and set your start time. =  In the window where you list the amount of time, don't worry if = the time goes beyond what is displayed.  When the file displays in = WinQuake, it is a continuous file from whatever time/date to the = following date and time.

For example if you = start the display at 2300, and list 240 minutes in the Save Time window, = the saved file will show continuous for 240 minutes, from 2300 on = whatever date to 0300 on the following = date.  

Bob = Hancock


On Apr 29, 2010, at 6:56 AM, = Ted Channel wrote:

Hi Folks,  = I have been using WindSDR for some time now.  I have a question, = perhaps one of you can help me with.
 
In = "replay"  If I go back to copy an earlier event which fall near the = 24:00:00 time line, the replay screen end at 24:00:00 = hrs.
 
Let's say an earthquake occurred at 23:00:00 and = continued for 4 hours,  starting at 23:00:00 ending at = 03:00:00.
 
How= do I copy, and save the event, in "replay"?
 
If the event in recent and visible on the screen, I can = just copy and save it with no problem.
 
It = is only in replay, and it is only when the event involves part of two = different days, where I have the problem.
 
Thanks, = Ted

= Subject: WinSDR From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 12:59:26 -0600 Hi Bob, Thank you for this information, I tried it and it works just = fine. Ted
Hi Bob,   Thank you for this=20 information,  I tried it and it works just fine.
Ted
Subject: Icelandic Volcano From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 14:44:05 +1000 hi guys some really cool video at present from the volcano the cloud has cleared and a camera that has been offline is now working well ..... http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-fimmvorduhalsi/ cheers Dave N Sydney __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: [GVA] HELP ID EQ NOT YET REPORTED ??? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 01:08:44 -0700 Hello PSN: I have received a signal which appears in TUC also Yet I see no reports anywhere. POSSIBLE_ORIGIN TIME: 04:55:35_2010MAY03_UTC It should be quite close to this time. Ml 4.0 RICHTER maybe 5.69 Degrees distance from Apache Junction AZ. Does Anyone know where this was. Regards; geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [GVA] HELP ID EQ NOT YET REPORTED ??? From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 11:51:33 -0700 Hi Geoff - Yes, I recorded it too. The waveform and duration is typical of many = aftershocks that I have recently recorded. The USGS normally uses a = cutoff of M 4.5 for events outside of the US, and M 2.5 for events = inside the US, However, with the recent M 7.2 event in Baja California, = the USGS appears to have deviated from that policy and have listed many = events with a lower magnitude. Also within the past year, there have = been a number of events further south and east along the San Andreas = fault as it splits Baja California. If the event is not listed, it is = possible that the USGS evaluated the event and found it did not meet = their minimum magnitude for events outside of the US. Bob Hancock On May 3, 2010, at 1:08 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello PSN: >=20 > I have received a signal which appears in TUC also > Yet I see no reports anywhere. >=20 > POSSIBLE_ORIGIN TIME: > 04:55:35_2010MAY03_UTC > It should be quite close to this time. > Ml 4.0 RICHTER maybe 5.69 Degrees distance from > Apache Junction AZ. >=20 > Does Anyone know where this was. >=20 > Regards; > geoff > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: [GVA] HELP ID EQ NOT YET REPORTED ??? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:31:25 -0700 You Know...I should of known that ! Thanx Bob, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hancock" To: Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [GVA] HELP ID EQ NOT YET REPORTED ??? Hi Geoff - Yes, I recorded it too. The waveform and duration is typical of many aftershocks that I have recently recorded. The USGS normally uses a cutoff of M 4.5 for events outside of the US, and M 2.5 for events inside the US, However, with the recent M 7.2 event in Baja California, the USGS appears to have deviated from that policy and have listed many events with a lower magnitude. Also within the past year, there have been a number of events further south and east along the San Andreas fault as it splits Baja California. If the event is not listed, it is possible that the USGS evaluated the event and found it did not meet their minimum magnitude for events outside of the US. Bob Hancock On May 3, 2010, at 1:08 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello PSN: > > I have received a signal which appears in TUC also > Yet I see no reports anywhere. > > POSSIBLE_ORIGIN TIME: > 04:55:35_2010MAY03_UTC > It should be quite close to this time. > Ml 4.0 RICHTER maybe 5.69 Degrees distance from > Apache Junction AZ. > > Does Anyone know where this was. > > Regards; > geoff > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: AS 1 period From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 13:21:01 -0600 Hi Folks, Could someone give me the site, and or information on how to = extend the short period sensors? Thanks, Ted
Hi Folks,   Could someone = give me the=20 site, and or information on how to extend the short period = sensors?
 
Thanks, Ted
Subject: Re: AS 1 period From: Robert McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 17:17:36 -0400 Take a look at http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/sitemap My WQFilter program will serve you well for that purpose. Bob On 5/9/10, Ted Channel wrote: > Hi Folks, Could someone give me the site, and or information on how to > extend the short period sensors? > > Thanks, Ted __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: AS 1 period From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 15:26:20 -0600 Yes Bob, That is what I was looking for. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McClure" To: Sent: Sunday, May 09, 2010 3:17 PM Subject: Re: AS 1 period > Take a look at http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/sitemap > > My WQFilter program will serve you well for that purpose. > > Bob > > On 5/9/10, Ted Channel wrote: >> Hi Folks, Could someone give me the site, and or information on how to >> extend the short period sensors? >> >> Thanks, Ted > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: AS 1 period From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 23:54:08 EDT In a message dated 09/05/2010, tchannel@............ writes: Could someone give me the site, and or information on how to extend the short period sensors? Thanks, Ted Hi Ted, You really need a 16 bit ADC to get enough resolution and preferably also a 1/f^2 law amplifier. The AS-1 mechanics has a period of ~1.5 seconds. To extend this to 20 seconds requires an ADDITIONAL amplification at 20 seconds of (20/1.5)^2 = 178 = ~8 bits. This is not difficult to do with a 2 amplifier sections, each section giving x13.34 gain at 20 seconds with a 2 stage high pass filter in between, set at say ~30 seconds. The Roberts compensator is described at _http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/roberts/index.html_ (http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/roberts/index.html) You need two of these circuits in series linked by the two pole high pass filter. If you don't put in the HP filter, you see lots of large amplitude long period noise. Go to _www.ti.com_ (http://www.ti.com) and check for a download of Filterpro _http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slyt113/slyt113.pdf_ (http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slyt113/slyt113.pdf) It looks like they now ask you to register. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 09/05/2010, tchannel@............ writes:
Could someone give me the site, and or= =20 information on how to extend the short period sensors?
Thanks, Ted
Hi Ted,
 
    You really need a 16 bit ADC to get=20 enough resolution and preferably also a 1/f^2 law amplifier. The AS-1= =20 mechanics has a period of ~1.5 seconds. To extend this to 20 seconds requi= res an=20 ADDITIONAL amplification at 20 seconds of (20/1.5)^2 =3D 178 =3D= ~8 bits.=20
    This is not difficult to do with a 2 amp= lifier=20 sections, each section giving x13.34 gain at 20 seconds with a 2 stage hig= h pass=20 filter in between, set at say ~30 seconds. The Roberts compensator is desc= ribed=20 at http:= //www.jclahr.com/science/psn/roberts/index.html You=20 need two of these circuits in series linked by the two pole high pass filt= er. If=20 you don't put in the HP filter, you see lots of large amplitude long= period=20 noise. 
Go to www.ti.com and check for= a=20 download of Filterpro http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/slyt113/slyt113.pdf It=20 looks like they now ask you to register.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 10 May 2010 07:38:11 -0700 Might one use a magnetic phono cartridge as a seismic sensor. Fix the needle in place somehow and use the cartridge as the pendulum or fixed to one ?? Has anyone tried this ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 11 May 2010 19:03:25 EDT In a message dated 11/05/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: Might one use a magnetic phono cartridge as a seismic sensor. Hi Geoff, Phono cartridges are designed to do a very different job. The motion is measured in thousanths of an inch, the frequency is the normal audio range, the output is in milli volts and they use a ferromagnetic backing plate. For a vertical pendulum you need at least +/-0.5 mm movement and for a garden-gate pendulum +/-10mm movement with good linearity. The frequency range is 10 Hz downwards, often to less than 0.05 Hz. These are not difficult to construct using inexpensive NdFeB magnets. For a vertical pendulum you can also use a Hall Effect magnetic sensor eg Allegro A1321. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 11/05/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:
Might=20 one use a magnetic phono cartridge as a seismic=20 sensor.
Hi Geoff,
 
    Phono cartridges are designed to do a very=20 different job. The motion is measured in thousanths of an inch, the freque= ncy is=20 the normal audio range, the output is in milli volts and they use a=20 ferromagnetic backing plate.
    For a vertical pendulum you need at least +/-= 0.5 mm=20 movement and for a garden-gate pendulum +/-10mm movement with good lineari= ty.=20 The frequency range is 10 Hz downwards, often to less than 0.05 Hz. These= are=20 not difficult to construct using inexpensive NdFeB magnets. For a vertical= =20 pendulum you can also use a Hall Effect magnetic sensor eg Allegro A1321.<= /DIV>
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 08:31:39 -0700 Back to the light thingy, Given A Mass and Spring: It Seems To Me You might get X1000 magnification of motion by putting a light source with a small radius fixed to a stationary location connected to the mass and then like 50 to 100 feet more away sensing the lights motion. It all has to do with the fact that as the radius increases so does the velocity at the perimeter. And if you can bounce the light beam between two mirrors It might travel 100 feet in a relatively small space. It will not matter that light is only 400 to 800 angstrums ??(not sure of spelling) because one nano meter at the source becomes one micro meter at its destination, and, like light has no mass ?? Have you ever seen such a mechanically amplified sensor before ? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 11, 2010 4:03 PM Subject: Re: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? > > In a message dated 11/05/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: > > Might one use a magnetic phono cartridge as a seismic sensor. > > > > Hi Geoff, > > Phono cartridges are designed to do a very different job. The motion > is measured in thousanths of an inch, the frequency is the normal audio > range, the output is in milli volts and they use a ferromagnetic backing plate. > For a vertical pendulum you need at least +/-0.5 mm movement and for a > garden-gate pendulum +/-10mm movement with good linearity. The frequency > range is 10 Hz downwards, often to less than 0.05 Hz. These are not > difficult to construct using inexpensive NdFeB magnets. For a vertical pendulum you > can also use a Hall Effect magnetic sensor eg Allegro A1321. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? From: Matt Zieleman matthew.zieleman@......... Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 08:38:29 -0700 I believe this is called an optical lever. On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > Back to the light thingy, > Given A Mass and Spring: > It Seems To Me You might get > X1000 magnification of motion > by putting a light source with a small radius > fixed to a stationary location connected to the mass and then > like 50 to 100 feet more away sensing > the lights motion. > It all has to do with the fact that as the radius increases > so does the velocity at the perimeter. > And if you can bounce the light beam between two mirrors > It might travel 100 feet in a relatively small space. > It will not matter that light is only 400 to 800 angstrums ??(not sure of > spelling) > because one nano meter at the source becomes one micro meter > at its destination, and, like light has no mass ?? > > Have you ever seen such a mechanically amplified sensor before ? > I believe this is called an optical lever.

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 8:31 AM, Geoffrey <gmvoeth@...........> wrote:
Back to the light thingy,
Given A Mass and Spring:
It Seems To Me You might get
X1000 magnification of motion
by putting a light source with a small radius
fixed to a stationary location connected to the mass and then
like 50 to 100 feet more away sensing
the lights motion.
It all has to do with the fact that as the radius increases
so does the velocity at the perimeter.
And if you can bounce the light beam between two mirrors
It might travel 100 feet in a relatively small space.
It will not matter that light is only 400 to 800 angstrums ??(not sure of spelling)
because one nano meter at the source becomes one micro meter
at its destination, and, like light has no mass ??

Have you ever seen such a mechanically amplified sensor before ?
Subject: Re: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 14:26:44 -0400 Goeff, An excellent reference to seismometer designs in general may be found at http://www.reference.com/browse/Seismometer From that page: " Early seismometers used optical levers or mechanical linkages to amplify the small motions involved, recording on soot-covered paper or photographic paper. Modern instruments use electronics. " In general obtaining adequate amplification is not a problem. A 90-cent Operational amplifier can provide all the gain you could ever use. The main problem will be obtaining a sufficiently stable, low-noise, motion sensing device. Brett At 11:31 AM 5/12/2010, you wrote: >Back to the light thingy, >Given A Mass and Spring: >It Seems To Me You might get >X1000 magnification of motion >by putting a light source with a small radius >fixed to a stationary location connected to the mass and then >like 50 to 100 feet more away sensing >the lights motion. >It all has to do with the fact that as the radius increases >so does the velocity at the perimeter. >And if you can bounce the light beam between two mirrors >It might travel 100 feet in a relatively small space. >It will not matter that light is only 400 to 800 angstrums ??(not >sure of spelling) >because one nano meter at the source becomes one micro meter >at its destination, and, like light has no mass ?? > >Have you ever seen such a mechanically amplified sensor before ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 15:01:12 -0700 Roger Dodger; Mucho Gracious. i just cant help but think there is a very simple way to do this that does not require a mass and spring. Such as a strain guage and a mass, resting upon it. No F0 to worry about. (Eff Zero) Just undulations relating to changes in weight. You set some mass on something like a bathroom scale and amplify the output from the scale. It seems to me that for next to nothing Manufacturing could include general outputs for all their various measuring devices. Why they do not do this seems extremely selfish. For every little improvement they want to X2 the price. Touch a Phono Needle to the bottom of a mass on a spring Why not get a meaningful signal. It should work just like any velocity sensor. Sum the outputs of a stereo cartridge. Im sure there is nothing that i can think of that like torture has not been tried before. Best regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 11:26 AM Subject: Re: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? > Goeff, > > An excellent reference to seismometer designs in general may be found at > > http://www.reference.com/browse/Seismometer > > From that page: > " Early seismometers used optical levers or mechanical linkages to > amplify the small motions involved, recording on soot-covered paper > or photographic paper. > Modern instruments use electronics. " > > In general obtaining adequate amplification is not a problem. A > 90-cent Operational amplifier can provide all the gain you could ever > use. The main problem will be obtaining a sufficiently stable, > low-noise, motion sensing device. > > Brett > > > At 11:31 AM 5/12/2010, you wrote: >>Back to the light thingy, >>Given A Mass and Spring: >>It Seems To Me You might get >>X1000 magnification of motion >>by putting a light source with a small radius >>fixed to a stationary location connected to the mass and then >>like 50 to 100 feet more away sensing >>the lights motion. >>It all has to do with the fact that as the radius increases >>so does the velocity at the perimeter. >>And if you can bounce the light beam between two mirrors >>It might travel 100 feet in a relatively small space. >>It will not matter that light is only 400 to 800 angstrums ??(not >>sure of spelling) >>because one nano meter at the source becomes one micro meter >>at its destination, and, like light has no mass ?? >> >>Have you ever seen such a mechanically amplified sensor before ? > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Electronic noise From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:09:13 +0000 Hi all, I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA cable ? Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 19:16:56 -0500 Jon, in the past I have observed that RCA type (audio) cable may not have complete shielding; some ever have had a small thread of wires and called it shielded. You might try coaxial cable. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Jón Frímann To: PSN-Postlist Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:09 PM Subject: Electronic noise Hi all, I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA cable ? Regards, -- Jón Frímann Jónsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Jon, in the past I have observed that RCA type = (audio)=20 cable may not have complete shielding; some ever have had a small thread = of=20 wires and called it shielded.
 
You might try coaxial cable.
 
Regards,
Jerry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 J=F3n = Fr=EDmann
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 = 7:09=20 PM
Subject: Electronic noise

Hi all,

I did replace my cable the other day = from Cat-5=20 shielded cable to a RCA
cable that is also shielded. But with the = Cat-5=20 cable I did not get
electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. = I rather=20 do not want to
switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to=20 manage.

What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic = noise on=20 the RCA
cable ?

Regards,
--
J=F3n Fr=EDmann=20 = J=F3nsson

________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 00:40:09 +0000 Hi Jerry, The cat-5 cable that I was using is a double shielded cable. I just that I have to replace the center part of the cable connector from my geophone to get rid of this electronic noise. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On mi=F0, 2010-05-12 at 19:16 -0500, GPayton wrote: > Jon, in the past I have observed that RCA type (audio) cable may not > have complete shielding; some ever have had a small thread of wires > and called it shielded. > =20 > You might try coaxial cable. > =20 > Regards, > Jerry > =20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann=20 > To: PSN-Postlist=20 > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:09 PM > Subject: Electronic noise > =20 > =20 > Hi all, > =20 > I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable > to a RCA > cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did > not get > electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not > want to > switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. > =20 > What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on > the RCA > cable ? > =20 > Regards, > --=20 > J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > =20 > __________________________________________________________ > =20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > =20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 21:45:51 EDT In a message dated 13/05/2010, jonfr@......... writes: What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA cable ? Hi Jon, I suggest that you use twin core cable with a WOVEN copper wire sheath and a plastic outer cover. It may be important to avoid cable with either metallised plastic or spirally wound sheaths. I do not use Cat5 cable. You can also use single core coaxial coaxial cable including microphone cable. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 13/05/2010, jonfr@......... writes:
What=20 might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA cable=20 ?
Hi Jon,
 
    I suggest that you use twin core cable with= a WOVEN=20 copper wire sheath and a plastic outer cover. It may be important to avoid= cable=20 with either metallised plastic or spirally wound sheaths. I do not use Cat= 5=20 cable. You can also use single core coaxial coaxial cable including microp= hone=20 cable.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: Mark Robinson mark.robinson@............... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 13:48:57 +1200 Jón Frímann wrote: > Hi all, > > I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA > cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get > electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to > switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. > > What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA > cable ? Hi Jón, The type of cable is probably less significant than the way it's connected. For a pretty much bulletproof connection you probably want to use a twisted pair, shielded, cable. Microphone cable is probably a good thing to ask for. Then you want to connect the shield to the cases of the geophone and the electronics, and the twisted pair to the terminals of the geophone and the input of the electronics. This configuration causes most interference to be deflected by the shield and most remaining 'common mode' interference to cancel itself out. All the best Mark __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 22:59:45 EDT In a message dated 12/05/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: Back to the light thingy, Given A Mass and Spring: It Seems To Me You might get X1000 magnification of motion by putting a light source with a small radius fixed to a stationary location connected to the mass and then like 50 to 100 feet more away sensing the lights motion. Have you ever seen such a mechanically amplified sensor before ? Hi Geoff, This is called an optical lever and it was used on pre-electronic seismic sensors with mirror galvanometers, recording on photo sensitive paper. The seismometer used a magnet + coil detector to drive the galvanometer coil. You had to wet develop, fix and dry the paper before it could be read. You are unlikely to get enough light intensity to use large separations with electronic detectors. If you want to see what you can observe, try using one of the red pen lasers. It was also used directly with a mirror on the Wood-Anderson short period seisometers. See _http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/Instruments/_ (http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/Instruments/) Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 12/05/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:
Back to=20 the light thingy, Given A Mass and Spring: It Seems To Me You might get= X1000=20 magnification of motion by putting a light source with a small radius fi= xed to=20 a stationary location connected to the mass and then like 50 to 100 feet= more=20 away sensing the lights motion.

Have you ever seen such a mechani= cally=20 amplified sensor before ?
Hi Geoff,
 
    This is called an optical lever and it was us= ed on=20 pre-electronic seismic sensors with mirror galvanometers, recording on pho= to=20 sensitive paper. The seismometer used a magnet + coil detector to drive th= e=20 galvanometer coil. You had to wet develop, fix and dry the paper before it= could=20 be read. You are unlikely to get enough light intensity to use large= =20 separations with electronic detectors. If you want to see what you can obs= erve,=20 try using one of the red pen lasers. It was also used directly with a mirr= or on=20 the Wood-Anderson short period seisometers. See http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake= _Center/Instruments/
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
 
    
Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 03:53:16 +0000 Hi, I did replace the RCA audio cable with a cat-5 double shield cable. But that cable now runs from the geophone to the amplifer board, but the first two meters are RCA audio cable, but I don't think that is going to be a problem. I hope that this is good enough to protect the signal from electronic noise and other sources of noise (mobile phones (GSM) and other wireless hardware). Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2010-05-13 at 13:48 +1200, Mark Robinson wrote: > J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: > > Hi all, > >=20 > > I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA > > cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get > > electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to > > switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. > >=20 > > What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA > > cable ? >=20 > Hi J=F3n, >=20 > The type of cable is probably less significant than the way it's connecte= d. >=20 > For a pretty much bulletproof connection you probably want to use a twist= ed=20 > pair, shielded, cable. Microphone cable is probably a good thing to ask f= or. >=20 > Then you want to connect the shield to the cases of the geophone and the=20 > electronics, and the twisted pair to the terminals of the geophone and th= e=20 > input of the electronics. >=20 > This configuration causes most interference to be deflected by the shield= and=20 > most remaining 'common mode' interference to cancel itself out. >=20 > All the best > Mark >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Magnetic Phono Cartridge as a Seismic Velocity sensor ? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 08:19:04 EDT In a message dated 12/05/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: i just cant help but think there is a very simple way to do this that does not require a mass and spring. Such as a strain guage and a mass, resting upon it. Hi Geoff, Strain gauges have too low an output. You set some mass on something like a bathroom scale and amplify the output from the scale. These are likely to have too much in-built friction. Touch a Phono Needle to the bottom of a mass on a spring. Why not get a meaningful signal. It should work just like any velocity sensor. Sum the outputs of a stereo cartridge. I told you three good reasons why a phono cartridge would make a lousy seismic sensor. If you don't believe me, OK. Waste your own time, effort and money, but don't waste that of other experimenters. You can make a seismic sensor with a large PZT sounder disk and a mass. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 12/05/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:
i just=20 cant help but think there is a very simple way to do this that does not= =20 require a mass and spring. Such as a strain guage and a mass, resting up= on=20 it.
Hi Geoff,
 
    Strain gauges have too low an output.
You set=20 some mass on something like a bathroom scale and amplify the output from= the=20 scale.
    These are likely to have too much in-built=20 friction.
Touch a=20 Phono Needle to the bottom of a mass on a spring. Why not get a meaningf= ul=20 signal.
It should work just like any velocity sensor. Sum the outputs= of a=20 stereo cartridge.
    I told you three good reasons why a phono car= tridge=20 would make a lousy seismic sensor. If you don't believe me, OK. Waste your= own=20 time, effort and money, but don't waste that of other experimenters.
    You can make a seismic sensor with a large PZ= T=20 sounder disk and a mass.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Mystery to Me From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 07:53:14 -0500 Looking at the photographs at http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html I couldn't help but be surprised at the last photograph. Water put in the vault? I've never see this before; why? Anyone explain? Thanks, Jerry
Looking at the photographs at  = http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html = =20 I couldn't help but be surprised at the last photograph.  Water put = in the=20 vault?  I've never see this before; why?  Anyone = explain?
 
Thanks,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Mystery to Me From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 06:15:08 -0700 This is just a guess, but I wonder if this was done for thermal = stabilization of the instrument. The instrument was not covered and it = would be susceptible to thermal air currents as the temperatures rise = and descend over a 24 hour period. I have a similar installation and initially covered my instrument with = sand bags, but they were very heavy to remove each time I needed access = to the instrument. I then covered my instrument with a 10 gallon barrel = lined with fiberglass. This has killed all of the thermal variations = that I used to received. Thermal variations are very noticeable and are = one reason the instruments are always covered.=20 Bob Hancock=20 On May 13, 2010, at 5:53 AM, GPayton wrote: > Looking at the photographs at = http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html I = couldn't help but be surprised at the last photograph. Water put in the = vault? I've never see this before; why? Anyone explain? > =20 > Thanks, > Jerry
This is just a guess, but I wonder if this was = done for thermal stabilization of the instrument.  The instrument = was not covered and it would be susceptible to thermal air currents as = the temperatures rise and descend over a 24 hour = period.

I have a similar installation and = initially covered my instrument with sand bags, but they were very heavy = to remove each time I needed access to the instrument.  I then = covered my instrument with a 10 gallon barrel lined with fiberglass. =  This has killed all of the thermal variations that I used to = received.  Thermal variations are very noticeable and are one = reason the instruments are always = covered. 

Bob = Hancock 

On May 13, 2010, at 5:53 AM, GPayton = wrote:

Looking at the photographs = at  h= ttp://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html  = I couldn't help but be surprised at the last photograph.  Water put = in the vault?  I've never see this before; why?  Anyone = explain?
 
Thanks,
Jerry

= Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 08:04:57 -0700 J=F3n- The Cat-5 cable is twisted and therefore cancels=20 magnetically-induced noise (one twist acts like a=20 small inductive loop, but then the next twist=20 detects the fields backward and cancels the=20 noise). RCA-type of shielded cable is designed to=20 shield higher frequencys (up in the audio range)=20 and magnetic fields can easily penetrate the=20 shield. Also the shield is usually woven or worse=20 yet just wrapped around and is not a 100%=20 covering. CAT-5 is a better choice, but some=20 phone wire is twisted also and will work (in the=20 States, the phone wire from the wall to the phone=20 is usually parallel, but the wire in the walls is=20 usually twisted). Some instrumentation wire is=20 the best of both and has twisted wire inside a=20 shield (if you use this, tie one wire and the=20 shield to ground AT ONE END ONLY). Hope this helps At 05:09 PM 5/12/2010, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: >Hi all, > >I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA >cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get >electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to >switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. > >What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA >cable ? > >Regards, >-- >J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. George=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 08:04:57 -0700 J=F3n- The Cat-5 cable is twisted and therefore cancels=20 magnetically-induced noise (one twist acts like a=20 small inductive loop, but then the next twist=20 detects the fields backward and cancels the=20 noise). RCA-type of shielded cable is designed to=20 shield higher frequencys (up in the audio range)=20 and magnetic fields can easily penetrate the=20 shield. Also the shield is usually woven or worse=20 yet just wrapped around and is not a 100%=20 covering. CAT-5 is a better choice, but some=20 phone wire is twisted also and will work (in the=20 States, the phone wire from the wall to the phone=20 is usually parallel, but the wire in the walls is=20 usually twisted). Some instrumentation wire is=20 the best of both and has twisted wire inside a=20 shield (if you use this, tie one wire and the=20 shield to ground AT ONE END ONLY). Hope this helps At 05:09 PM 5/12/2010, J=F3n Fr=EDmann wrote: >Hi all, > >I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA >cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get >electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to >switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. > >What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA >cable ? > >Regards, >-- >J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. George=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 09:30:51 -0700 IS this really true or is it possible that a common mode signal is generated equally on both of the twisted wires instead of possibly a phase shifted differtential signal ?? Amplifiers are designed to reject common mode signals unless you desire a very big voltage input. Like +/- 100V ??? In my opinion nothing beats the old russian doll idea where you nest two or three layers of 100% shields. But doing that right that is very expensive and not easy to do. You need to deal with ANY/ALL wires which may breach the shielding. And any wavelengths of RFI smaller than any holes can get in too. ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bush" To: ; "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: Re: Electronic noise Jón- The Cat-5 cable is twisted and therefore cancels magnetically-induced noise (one twist acts like a small inductive loop, but then the next twist detects the fields backward and cancels the noise). __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: ERIC DATABASE From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 11:27:18 -0700 Below is an interesting thing I found on the internet which may interest some people on the psn list. If your email client is not set right you will have to use notepad or something alike to reconstruct/copy/paste it into your browser. Certain modes within an email client will not allow a large string to be unbroken as pure text. http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/Home.portal?_nfpb=true&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=seismometer&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=kw&_pageLabel=ERICSearchResult&newSearch=true&rnd=1273775082566&searchtype=basic ERIC database which might be a subscription thing, not really sure. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 22:57:42 +0000 Hi all, I did replace the rca audio cable with a cat-5 cable that is shielded. So now there a cat-5 cable all the way. With just one connection point on the way. This should prevent all electronic noise from getting into the cable. For some reason the rca audio cable that I was using is not good enough for this. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2010-05-13 at 09:30 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > IS this really true or is it possible > that a common mode signal is generated equally > on both of the twisted wires instead of possibly > a phase shifted differtential signal ?? >=20 > Amplifiers are designed to reject common mode signals > unless you desire a very big voltage input. > Like +/- 100V >=20 > ??? >=20 >=20 > In my opinion nothing beats the old russian doll idea > where you nest two or three layers of 100% shields. > But doing that right that is very expensive and not easy to do. > You need to deal with ANY/ALL wires which > may breach the shielding. And any wavelengths of RFI > smaller than any holes can get in too. >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "George Bush" > To: ; "PSN-Postlist" > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 8:04 AM > Subject: Re: Electronic noise >=20 >=20 > J=F3n- >=20 > The Cat-5 cable is twisted and therefore cancels > magnetically-induced noise (one twist acts like a > small inductive loop, but then the next twist > detects the fields backward and cancels the > noise). >=20 >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 10:02:21 -0700 At the local hardware store ACE BEST or whatever I found a signal cable suitable for underground buriel which has some kind of grease impregnated beween the shield and the cable jacket to keep moisure out. I installed a 40 foot run of it several years ago and it still seems good. The shield is heavy copper foil which makes the cable not as flexable as it might be with a braided shield. You just need to shield the jacket from sunlight everywhere it might be above ground. Also you should avoid what is called ground loops which can indice unwanted noise inside the cable this can be avoided by choosing your gound and making sure the shield is broken at one side of the connection or another to eliminate a DC path. I will typically break the shield on the side opposite of the side chosen as the primary ground. DC/LOW FREQUENCIES will travel deep within a conductor. But like over 1 MHZ the current exhibits a skin effect and only travels like within the first 1/8 inch of the surface with that skin getting smaller/thinner as the frequency increases. I shoiuld imagine the impedance is also related to this skin effect. It seems to play a role in antenna design visible as gamma matching. Coaxial cable would be quite suitable for low frequencies if 100% shielded and have a proper BALUNS to keep RF out of the inside of the cable. A BALUNS may be as simple as a series of FERRITE beads at the open ends of the shield. The broader the frequency block the more beads you need and they are not cheap. They come in sizes for one wire or a whole 1/4 inch cable as a split bead. I have seen them at Radsio Shack in the past. You want to make sure what flows on the outside of a coax does not leak into the inside. And, Vice Versa. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Electronic noise > Jon, in the past I have observed that RCA type (audio) cable may not have > complete shielding; some ever have had a small thread of wires and called it > shielded. > > You might try coaxial cable. > > Regards, > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jón Frímann > To: PSN-Postlist > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:09 PM > Subject: Electronic noise > > > Hi all, > > I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA > cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get > electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to > switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. > > What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA > cable ? > > Regards, > -- > Jón Frímann Jónsson > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 12:10:09 -0500 Good information and suggestions. However, I don't believe that Jon mentioned the SOURCE of his interference or the DISTANCE of his needed run. Both are important factors to consider. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Geoffrey To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 12:02 PM Subject: Re: Electronic noise At the local hardware store ACE BEST or whatever I found a signal cable suitable for underground buriel which has some kind of grease impregnated beween the shield and the cable jacket to keep moisure out. I installed a 40 foot run of it several years ago and it still seems good. The shield is heavy copper foil which makes the cable not as flexable as it might be with a braided shield. You just need to shield the jacket from sunlight everywhere it might be above ground. Also you should avoid what is called ground loops which can indice unwanted noise inside the cable this can be avoided by choosing your gound and making sure the shield is broken at one side of the connection or another to eliminate a DC path. I will typically break the shield on the side opposite of the side chosen as the primary ground. DC/LOW FREQUENCIES will travel deep within a conductor. But like over 1 MHZ the current exhibits a skin effect and only travels like within the first 1/8 inch of the surface with that skin getting smaller/thinner as the frequency increases. I shoiuld imagine the impedance is also related to this skin effect. It seems to play a role in antenna design visible as gamma matching. Coaxial cable would be quite suitable for low frequencies if 100% shielded and have a proper BALUNS to keep RF out of the inside of the cable. A BALUNS may be as simple as a series of FERRITE beads at the open ends of the shield. The broader the frequency block the more beads you need and they are not cheap. They come in sizes for one wire or a whole 1/4 inch cable as a split bead. I have seen them at Radsio Shack in the past. You want to make sure what flows on the outside of a coax does not leak into the inside. And, Vice Versa. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 5:16 PM Subject: Re: Electronic noise > Jon, in the past I have observed that RCA type (audio) cable may not have > complete shielding; some ever have had a small thread of wires and called it > shielded. > > You might try coaxial cable. > > Regards, > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jón Frímann > To: PSN-Postlist > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:09 PM > Subject: Electronic noise > > > Hi all, > > I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA > cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get > electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to > switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. > > What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA > cable ? > > Regards, > -- > Jón Frímann Jónsson > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Good information and suggestions.  However, = I don't=20 believe that Jon mentioned the SOURCE of his interference or the = DISTANCE of his=20 needed run.  Both are important factors to consider.
Regards,
Jerry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Geoffrey=20
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 = 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Electronic = noise

At the local hardware store ACE BEST or whatever
I = found a=20 signal cable suitable for underground buriel
which has some kind of = grease=20 impregnated beween the shield
and the cable jacket to keep moisure=20 out.
I installed a 40 foot run of it several years ago
and it = still=20 seems good. The shield is heavy copper foil
which makes the cable = not as=20 flexable as it might be with
a braided shield. You just need to = shield the=20 jacket from sunlight
everywhere it might be above = ground.

Also you=20 should avoid what is called ground loops
which can indice unwanted = noise=20 inside the cable
this can be avoided by choosing your gound
and = making=20 sure the shield is broken at one side of the connection
or another = to=20 eliminate a DC path. I will typically
break the shield on the side = opposite=20 of the
side chosen as the primary ground.

DC/LOW FREQUENCIES = will=20 travel deep within a conductor.
But like over 1 MHZ the current = exhibits a=20 skin effect
and only travels like within the first 1/8 inch of the=20 surface
with that skin getting smaller/thinner as the frequency=20 increases.

I shoiuld imagine the impedance is also related to = this skin=20 effect.

It seems to play a role in antenna design visible as = gamma=20 matching.

Coaxial cable would be quite suitable for low=20 frequencies
if 100% shielded and have a proper BALUNS to keep
RF = out of=20 the inside of the cable.
A BALUNS may be as simple as a series=20 of
FERRITE beads at  the open ends of the shield.
The = broader the=20 frequency block the more
beads you need and they are not = cheap.
They=20 come in sizes for one wire or a whole 1/4 inch cable
as a split = bead. I=20 have seen them at Radsio Shack
in the past.
You want to make = sure what=20 flows on the outside of a coax
does not leak into the inside. And, = Vice=20 Versa.


----- Original Message -----
From: "GPayton" = <gpayton@.............>
To= :=20 <psn-l@..............>
Sent= :=20 Wednesday, May 12, 2010 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Electronic=20 noise


> Jon, in the past I have observed that RCA type = (audio)=20 cable may not have
> complete shielding; some ever have had a = small=20 thread of wires and called it
> shielded.
>
> You = might try=20 coaxial cable.
>
> Regards,
> = Jerry
>
> =20 ----- Original Message -----
>  From: J=F3n = Fr=EDmann
> =20 To: PSN-Postlist
>  Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:09=20 PM
>  Subject: Electronic = noise
>
>
>  Hi=20 all,
>
>  I did replace my cable the other day from = Cat-5=20 shielded cable to a RCA
>  cable that is also shielded. But = with=20 the Cat-5 cable I did not get
>  electronic noise. But with = the RCA=20 cable I do. I rather do not want to
>  switch back to the = Cat-5=20 cable, as it is harder to manage.
>
>  What might be = the=20 reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA
>  cable = ?
>
>  Regards,
>  --
>  J=F3n = Fr=EDmann=20 J=F3nsson
>
> =20 = __________________________________________________________
>
>= ; =20 Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
>
>  To = leave=20 this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
>  the body of the message (first line only):=20 unsubscribe
>  See http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
>=20 =

__________________________________________________________
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Mystery to Me From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 10:27:04 -0700 If you can increase the conductivity of the water by adding an impurity like salt and possibly antifreeze it might be very good for RFI shielding too but you need corrosion resistance of everything inside the water. The human body is mostly water and seems quite resistant to RF fields. I have heard the US Army has tried to kill enemies with radar like pulses but this way is not a humane way to kill since humans seem quite resistant to RF fields. Older more tradional methods of war seem better. As thermal condensor It seems to me this water thing might be the best of all. It is the easiest to deal with, just pump it out with an eductor or submersable pump, Or syphon (pituweee,pituweee, cough,cough) if your on a hill. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: "PSN Network List" Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 5:53 AM Subject: Mystery to Me > Looking at the photographs at > http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html I couldn't > help but be surprised at the last photograph. Water put in the vault? I've > never see this before; why? Anyone explain? > > Thanks, > Jerry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 14 May 2010 10:33:05 -0700 Everything is important when you deal with noise. Maybe there is something not considered before. I'M always looking for new data as it relates to noise and signal to noise ratio improvement. This subject is of interest to myself as well as the initiator of the thread. Have you ever thought about the microphonic oscillator ? Residing within each and every household item of an electronic nature. Its not meant to modulate anything directly yet can send your voice all over the world. I understand it really does make a signal to noise improvement to use a larger mass on your sensor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 10:10 AM Subject: Re: Electronic noise > Good information and suggestions. However, I don't believe that Jon > mentioned the SOURCE of his interference or the DISTANCE of his needed run. > Both are important factors to consider. > Regards, > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Geoffrey > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 12:02 PM > Subject: Re: Electronic noise > > > At the local hardware store ACE BEST or whatever > I found a signal cable suitable for underground buriel > which has some kind of grease impregnated beween the shield > and the cable jacket to keep moisure out. > I installed a 40 foot run of it several years ago > and it still seems good. The shield is heavy copper foil > which makes the cable not as flexable as it might be with > a braided shield. You just need to shield the jacket from sunlight > everywhere it might be above ground. > > Also you should avoid what is called ground loops > which can indice unwanted noise inside the cable > this can be avoided by choosing your gound > and making sure the shield is broken at one side of the connection > or another to eliminate a DC path. I will typically > break the shield on the side opposite of the > side chosen as the primary ground. > > DC/LOW FREQUENCIES will travel deep within a conductor. > But like over 1 MHZ the current exhibits a skin effect > and only travels like within the first 1/8 inch of the surface > with that skin getting smaller/thinner as the frequency increases. > > I shoiuld imagine the impedance is also related to this skin effect. > > It seems to play a role in antenna design visible as gamma matching. > > Coaxial cable would be quite suitable for low frequencies > if 100% shielded and have a proper BALUNS to keep > RF out of the inside of the cable. > A BALUNS may be as simple as a series of > FERRITE beads at the open ends of the shield. > The broader the frequency block the more > beads you need and they are not cheap. > They come in sizes for one wire or a whole 1/4 inch cable > as a split bead. I have seen them at Radsio Shack > in the past. > You want to make sure what flows on the outside of a coax > does not leak into the inside. And, Vice Versa. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "GPayton" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: Electronic noise > > > > Jon, in the past I have observed that RCA type (audio) cable may not > have > > complete shielding; some ever have had a small thread of wires and > called it > > shielded. > > > > You might try coaxial cable. > > > > Regards, > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jón Frímann > > To: PSN-Postlist > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:09 PM > > Subject: Electronic noise > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA > > cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get > > electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to > > switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. > > > > What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA > > cable ? > > > > Regards, > > -- > > Jón Frímann Jónsson > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earthquake safety From: Jan Froom JDarwin@............. Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 20:11:23 -0700 I was asked today by a friend who wants to know more about how the Railroads, BART, Amusement Parks and others make the determination of when they have to shut down and check tracks etc. after an earthquake. He said there was some sort of formula that says if a X.X magnitude earthquake occurs within Y miles... they have to shut down and check. Anyone know anything about this? Jan in Gilroy I was asked today by a friend who wants to know more about how the Railroads, BART, Amusement Parks and others make the determination of when they have to shut down and check tracks etc. after an earthquake. He said there was some sort of formula that says if a X.X magnitude earthquake
occurs within Y miles... they have to shut down and check.  Anyone know anything about this?

Jan in Gilroy
 Subject: RE: Earthquake safety From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 15 May 2010 23:44:38 -0700 Hi Jan, http://peer.berkeley.edu/pdf/Senate_testimonial-8-07.pdf That's a good question. I did not find the answer but this link contains a report about earthquake safety in the Bay area and is worth a read. Steve From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Jan Froom Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 8:11 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Earthquake safety I was asked today by a friend who wants to know more about how the Railroads, BART, Amusement Parks and others make the determination of when they have to shut down and check tracks etc. after an earthquake. He said there was some sort of formula that says if a X.X magnitude earthquake occurs within Y miles... they have to shut down and check. Anyone know anything about this? Jan in Gilroy

Hi Jan,  http://= peer.berkeley.edu/pdf/Senate_testimonial-8-07.pdf

That’s a good question. I did not find the answer = but this link contains a report about earthquake safety in the Bay area and is = worth a read.

Steve

 

From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Jan Froom
Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2010 8:11 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Earthquake safety

 

I was asked today = by a friend who wants to know more about how the Railroads, BART, Amusement Parks = and others make the determination of when they have to shut down and check = tracks etc. after an earthquake. He said there was some sort of formula that = says if a X.X magnitude earthquake
occurs within Y miles... they have to shut down and check.  Anyone = know anything about this?

Jan in Gilroy

Subject: Larry's three channel Amp board From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 06:47:37 -0600 Folks, I have a series of questions concerning Larry's three channel = board. psn-adc-eqamp. If someone would email me direct please. Ted tchannel@cableone.net
Folks,  I have a series of = questions=20 concerning Larry's three channel board.  =20 psn-adc-eqamp.    If someone would email me direct=20 please.
 
Ted    tchannel@............ Subject: Re: Larry's three channel Amp board From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:32:21 +0000 Hi Ted, Why take this topic off list. We all own these boards and are interested in any related topics. Let's do it here, it's a big reason we are all on the list. My two cents. Angel On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 06:47 -0600, Ted Channel wrote: > Folks, I have a series of questions concerning Larry's three channel > board. psn-adc-eqamp. If someone would email me direct please. > > Ted tchannel@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Larry's three channel Amp board From: "Jim ODonnell" geophysics@.......... Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:47:33 GMT Angel is right as usual...Jim Jim O'Donnell BC-Geophysics = Geophysical Consultant/Contractor Geotechnical/Geothermal/Oil & Gas/Mining Applications Seismic Surveys- Surface Waves, Refraction, & Reflection Ground Penetrating Radar, Resistivity, Magnetic, & VLF-EM Surveys Geophysics@.......... 702.293.5664 702.281.9081 cell = Boulder City, NV ---------- Original Message ---------- From: sismos To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Larry's three channel Amp board Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:32:21 +0000 Hi Ted, Why take this topic off list. We all own these boards and are interested in any related topics. Let's do it here, it's a big reason we are all on the list. My two cents. Angel On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 06:47 -0600, Ted Channel wrote: > Folks, I have a series of questions concerning Larry's three channel > board. psn-adc-eqamp. If someone would email me direct please. > = > Ted tchannel@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Angel is right as usual...Jim


Jim O'Donnell BC-Geophysi= cs
Geophysical Consultant/Contractor
Geotechnical/Geothermal/Oil = & Gas/Mining Applications
Seismic Surveys- Surface Waves, Refract= ion, & Reflection
Ground Penetrating Radar, Resistivity, Magnetic= , & VLF-EM Surveys
Geophysics@..........  702.293.5664  = ;702.281.9081 cell   
Boulder City, NV


---------= - Original Message ----------
From: sismos <sismos@..............&= gt;
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Larry's three channel Am= p board
Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 13:32:21 +0000

Hi Ted,

W= hy take this topic off list.  We all own these boards and are
in= terested in any related topics.

Let's do it here, it's a big reas= on we are all on the list.

My two cents.

Angel


=
On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 06:47 -0600, Ted Channel wrote:
> Folks,=  I have a series of questions concerning Larry's three channel
= > board.   psn-adc-eqamp.    If someone woul= d email me direct please.
>  
> Ted    t= channel@............


________________________________________= __________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the = body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.sei= smicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Re: Larry's three channel Amp board From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 08:03:13 -0600 Folks, Angel suggest I ask this on the psn list, at that's fine, I will. To begin with I emailed my questions to Larry, twice, but got no reply, so he maybe on vacation or just not available. I am working with two of Larry's three channel boards. One I have and one at a college. The one I have is working fine and has been for two years. The college just started using theirs, and I do believe something is wrong. I went to the college to check all the (settings) for the amp and the WinSDR software. Everything look normal and they are using all the same settings I am using. They are using identical Lehman and Vertical sensors, same city, same noise level.........Almost everything about our two stations are the same. With one exception.............. On their WinSDR screen, they show the three traces coming in ch1, ch2, and ch3, same as my three channel..........BUT their "Y" axis is 600, not 20 or 30 or 3 like mine, but 600. They had it at 250, but made an adjustment to 600.........Yet the screens look correct, it is not black.............Why is my question? I THINK the reason for this is, ............The board inside the box, has a Low gain and a > High gain setting. On Larry's one channel board it is a jumper pin. > Install the gain is 200-2000, > removed the gain is 950-9500................On Larry's three channel board > there is a jumper pin also, installed the gain is 145-1450. With the > jumper removed it is 650-6500. > Each board also has a trim pot, (10 turn potentiometer)? This is also > adjustable, but is shipped already turned to the minimal level. > > On one of the old one channel boards, I wanted try both high and low > gains. I opened the board and could see the jumper (Installed) so that > would mean I was using the low gain of 200-2000 and the trim pot was at > minimum so I was using 200 gain. I was incorrect..........I could see > the > jumper, so I thought that = installed. But the jumper having two holes in > the bottom, was only inserted onto one of the two pins, so this = not > installed. This means I was actually on high gain of 950-9500, with > the trim pot to minimum=950 gain. I have not opened my three channel board, and I have not opened theirs. Someone may have? How does Larry ship board? Jumper in or out? Trim pot lowest point? To make this more complex, They failed to record the 5.1M off the coast of Oregon, and I recorded it perfectly on all three channels. Could the (gain settings) account for this? Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: Larry's three channel Amp board > Hi Ted, > > Why take this topic off list. We all own these boards and are > interested in any related topics. > > Let's do it here, it's a big reason we are all on the list. > > My two cents. > > Angel > > > > On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 06:47 -0600, Ted Channel wrote: >> Folks, I have a series of questions concerning Larry's three channel >> board. psn-adc-eqamp. If someone would email me direct please. >> >> Ted tchannel@............ > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: low noise PSD From: Chuck / Judy Burch cjburch@........... Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 10:07:02 -0600 Here's a technical question about seismometer electronics. What phase sensitive detector design do you recommend for low noise? I have built PSDs using an op amp and FET switches (the amp switches between gain of +1 and -1). Analog Technology and National Semi describe these circuits in application notes. And you can use a switch with an instrumentation amp. But these switches produce huge high frequency noise pulses that are very difficult to shield out or filter out. You could also use IC multipliers like the AD630 or a Gilbert cell multiplier. I have not tried either of these and wonder if they are worth the cost and/or trouble of construction. Any suggestions? Thanks, Chuck Burch __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: low noise PSD From: Matt Zieleman matthew.zieleman@......... Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 09:49:27 -0700 The high frequency pulses are actually quite easy to filter out with a suitable low pass filtering. You may need to use appropriate shielding of the high frequency circuit from the low frequency portions. Matt On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Chuck / Judy Burch wrote: > > Here's a technical question about seismometer electronics. What phase > sensitive detector design do you recommend for low noise? > > I have built PSDs using an op amp and FET switches (the amp switches > between gain of +1 and -1). Analog Technology and National Semi describe > these circuits in application notes. And you can use a switch with an > instrumentation amp. But these switches produce huge high frequency noise > pulses that are very difficult to shield out or filter out. > > You could also use IC multipliers like the AD630 or a Gilbert cell > multiplier. I have not tried either of these and wonder if they are worth > the cost and/or trouble of construction. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Chuck Burch > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > The high frequency pulses are actually quite easy to filter out with a suit= able low pass filtering. You may need to use appropriate shielding of the h= igh frequency circuit from the low frequency portions.

Matt

On Sun, May 16, 2010 at 9:07 AM, Chu= ck / Judy Burch <cjburch@...........> wrote:

Here's a technical question about seismometer electronics. =A0What phas= e sensitive detector design do you recommend for low noise?

I have built PSDs using an op amp and FET switches (the amp switches betwee= n gain of +1 and -1). =A0Analog Technology and National Semi describe these= circuits in application notes. =A0And you can use a switch with an instrum= entation amp. =A0But these switches produce huge high frequency noise pulse= s that are very difficult to shield out or filter out.

You could also use IC multipliers like the AD630 or a Gilbert cell multipli= er. =A0I have not tried either of these and wonder if they are worth the co= st and/or trouble of construction.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Chuck Burch


__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the messa= ge (first line only): unsubscribe
See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Subject: Greenland Earthquakes From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 16:38:38 -0700 To Jon Frimann, I see that we have had 2 earthquakes in the last few hours on Greenland, a 5.1 and 5.2. Would these have any effect on Iceland? Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

To Jon Frimann,

I see that we have had 2 earthquakes in the last = few hours on Greenland, a 5.1 and 5.2. Would these have any effect on = Iceland?

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655<= /span>

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home<= /a>    Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

 

 

Subject: Re: low noise PSD From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 16:40:04 -0700 Hi Chuck, Analog IC multipliers are rather noisy themselves. Usually they involve a log amplifier, which is often a P-N junction biased to a rather low current level -- just the right combination for noise. If you choose the carrier frequency high enough above the signal passband you should have enough difference to filter the spikes quite well. Much of the noise is due to charge being injected through the gate capacitance of the switches, and one trick is to cancel the noise by injecting charge of the opposite polarity from an inverted signal. Sometimes slowing the risetime of the switching signal helps. There is less current through the capacitances with slower risetimes. But the resultant noise has lower frequency content and may be harder to filter. And sometimes using faster switching risetimes is better, for the opposite reasons. And as was mentioned, careful board layout can make all the difference in the world. You might look at IC analog switches. They usually specify switching charge injection. Low charge injection often comes at the expense of speed and on resistance. Hope this helps. Karl Chuck / Judy Burch wrote: > > Here's a technical question about seismometer electronics. What phase > sensitive detector design do you recommend for low noise? > > I have built PSDs using an op amp and FET switches (the amp switches > between gain of +1 and -1). Analog Technology and National Semi > describe these circuits in application notes. And you can use a switch > with an instrumentation amp. But these switches produce huge high > frequency noise pulses that are very difficult to shield out or filter out. > > You could also use IC multipliers like the AD630 or a Gilbert cell > multiplier. I have not tried either of these and wonder if they are > worth the cost and/or trouble of construction. > > Any suggestions? > > Thanks, > > Chuck Burch > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Larry's three channel Amp board From: "Dale Hardy" photon1@........... Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 11:26:43 +1000 Hi Ted, Are you referring to the 1 to 4 channel board ??? If so, instructions are on http://www.seismicnet.com/serialamp.html regards Dale -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Ted Channel Sent: Monday, 17 May 2010 12:03 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Larry's three channel Amp board Folks, Angel suggest I ask this on the psn list, at that's fine, I will. To begin with I emailed my questions to Larry, twice, but got no reply, so he maybe on vacation or just not available. I am working with two of Larry's three channel boards. One I have and one at a college. The one I have is working fine and has been for two years. The college just started using theirs, and I do believe something is wrong. I went to the college to check all the (settings) for the amp and the WinSDR software. Everything look normal and they are using all the same settings I am using. They are using identical Lehman and Vertical sensors, same city, same noise level.........Almost everything about our two stations are the same. With one exception.............. On their WinSDR screen, they show the three traces coming in ch1, ch2, and ch3, same as my three channel..........BUT their "Y" axis is 600, not 20 or 30 or 3 like mine, but 600. They had it at 250, but made an adjustment to 600.........Yet the screens look correct, it is not black.............Why is my question? I THINK the reason for this is, ............The board inside the box, has a Low gain and a > High gain setting. On Larry's one channel board it is a jumper pin. > Install the gain is 200-2000, > removed the gain is 950-9500................On Larry's three channel board > there is a jumper pin also, installed the gain is 145-1450. With the > jumper removed it is 650-6500. > Each board also has a trim pot, (10 turn potentiometer)? This is also > adjustable, but is shipped already turned to the minimal level. > > On one of the old one channel boards, I wanted try both high and low > gains. I opened the board and could see the jumper (Installed) so that > would mean I was using the low gain of 200-2000 and the trim pot was at > minimum so I was using 200 gain. I was incorrect..........I could see > the > jumper, so I thought that = installed. But the jumper having two holes in > the bottom, was only inserted onto one of the two pins, so this = not > installed. This means I was actually on high gain of 950-9500, with > the trim pot to minimum=950 gain. I have not opened my three channel board, and I have not opened theirs. Someone may have? How does Larry ship board? Jumper in or out? Trim pot lowest point? To make this more complex, They failed to record the 5.1M off the coast of Oregon, and I recorded it perfectly on all three channels. Could the (gain settings) account for this? Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2010 7:32 AM Subject: Re: Larry's three channel Amp board > Hi Ted, > > Why take this topic off list. We all own these boards and are > interested in any related topics. > > Let's do it here, it's a big reason we are all on the list. > > My two cents. > > Angel > > > > On Sun, 2010-05-16 at 06:47 -0600, Ted Channel wrote: >> Folks, I have a series of questions concerning Larry's three channel >> board. psn-adc-eqamp. If someone would email me direct please. >> >> Ted tchannel@............ > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: low noise PSD From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 16 May 2010 21:30:07 EDT In a message dated 16/05/2010, cjburch@........... writes: Here's a technical question about seismometer electronics. What phase sensitive detector design do you recommend for low noise? I have built PSDs using an op amp and FET switches (the amp switches between gain of +1 and -1). Analog Technology and National Semi describe these circuits in application notes. And you can use a switch with an instrumentation amp. But these switches produce huge high frequency noise pulses that are very difficult to shield out or filter out. You could also use IC multipliers like the AD630 or a Gilbert cell multiplier. I have not tried either of these and wonder if they are worth the cost and/or trouble of construction. Hi Chuck, It would be a help if you said exactly what you are trying to do! I am slightly confused by your reference to multipliers when the most common seismometer applications are detector systems and chopper amplifiers! There are fairly low noise analogue FET switch ICs available. One that I have used with a detector system is the four channel LTC1043, which has an on chip RC oscillator, which can also be driven by a CD4060 crystal oscillator for very high stability switching. There are application notes available from Linear. This works nicely as a capacitative position detector. I can see no reason why it should not be equally satisfactory as a chopper amplifier. There is charge balancing applied to the switch circuits. You do need to be careful about the switching rate applied to any analogue amplifier ICs within a feedback loop. You need to check both temperature drift and noise with multiplier circuits. Check Karl and Allan's circuits on psn and Randall Peters' websites? I hope that this helps. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 16/05/2010, cjburch@........... writes:
Here's a=20 technical question about seismometer electronics. What phase sensit= ive=20 detector design do you recommend for low noise?

I have built PSDs= using=20 an op amp and FET switches (the amp switches between gain of +1 and -1).=  =20 Analog Technology and National Semi describe these circuits in applicati= on=20 notes. And you can use a switch with an instrumentation amp.  But= these=20 switches produce huge high frequency noise pulses that are very difficul= t to=20 shield out or filter out.

You could also use IC multipliers like= the=20 AD630 or a Gilbert cell multiplier. I have not tried either of these and= =20 wonder if they are worth the cost and/or trouble of=20 construction.
Hi Chuck,
 
    It would be a help if you said exactly what= you are=20 trying to do! I am slightly confused by your reference to multipliers when= the=20 most common seismometer applications are detector systems and chopper=20 amplifiers!
    There are fairly low noise analogue FET switc= h ICs=20 available. One that I have used with a detector system is the four channel= =20 LTC1043, which has an on chip RC oscillator, which can also be driven by= a=20 CD4060 crystal oscillator for very high stability switching. There are=20 application notes available from Linear. This works nicely as a capacitati= ve=20 position detector. I can see no reason why it should not be equally satisf= actory=20 as a chopper amplifier. There is charge balancing applied to the switch=20 circuits.
    You do need to be careful about the switching= rate=20 applied to any analogue amplifier ICs within a feedback loop.
    You need to check both temperature drift and= noise=20 with multiplier circuits.
    Check Karl and Allan's circuits on psn and Ra= ndall=20 Peters' websites?
    I hope that this helps.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Greenland Earthquakes From: jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 09:51:34 -0000 (UTC) Hi, The short answer is no, they will not. Those earthquakes are too far away to make any diffrence here in Iceland, they are also too small for any effect on the local fault lines in Iceland. Regards, Jón Frímann. > To Jon Frimann, > > I see that we have had 2 earthquakes in the last few hours on Greenland, a > 5.1 and 5.2. Would these have any effect on Iceland? > > Gary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gary Lindgren > > 585 Lincoln Ave > > Palo Alto CA 94301 > > > > 650-326-0655 > > > > www.blue-eagle-technologies.com > Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading > > cymonsplace.blogspot.com > > > sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New > Vertical Seismometer > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Mystery to Me From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 08:03:11 -0700 Jerry - I called Dr. Haydar Al-Shukri today, and he told me the story of water = in the vault. The vault was installed while he was working at St. Louis University, = and he is currently at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock. The = wires from the vault to the building were encased in PVC pipes. The = seismometer was manufactured by Guralp. One day the instrument stopped = working and they investigated as to why. After checking all the = instrumentation in the building, they opened up the vault and it was = filled with water. It turned out that a tree had fallen down and they = brought in heavy equipment to remove the tree. Driving over the buried = PVC pipe, the heavy vehicle had fractured the PVC pipe........then, = there was a heavy rain, and water leaked into the broken PVC pipe which = filled the vault with water. The vault was emptied and the instrument = forward to Guralp for repair. Mystery Solved !!! Bob Hancock On May 13, 2010, at 5:53 AM, GPayton wrote: > Looking at the photographs at = http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html I = couldn't help but be surprised at the last photograph. Water put in the = vault? I've never see this before; why? Anyone explain? > =20 > Thanks, > Jerry
Jerry -

I called Dr. = Haydar Al-Shukri today, and he told me the story of water in the = vault.

The vault was installed while he was = working at St. Louis University, and he is currently at the University = of Arkansas at Little Rock.  The wires from the vault to the = building were encased in PVC pipes.  The seismometer was = manufactured by Guralp.  One day the instrument stopped working and = they investigated as to why.  After checking all the = instrumentation in the building, they opened up the vault and it was = filled with water.  It turned out that a tree had fallen down and = they brought in heavy equipment to remove the tree.  Driving over = the buried PVC pipe, the heavy vehicle had fractured the PVC = pipe........then, there was a heavy rain, and water leaked into the = broken PVC pipe which filled the vault with water.  The vault was = emptied and the instrument forward to Guralp for = repair.

Mystery Solved = !!!

Bob = Hancock


On May 13, 2010, at 5:53 AM, = GPayton wrote:

Looking at the photographs = at  h= ttp://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html  = I couldn't help but be surprised at the last photograph.  Water put = in the vault?  I've never see this before; why?  Anyone = explain?
 
Thanks,
Jerry

= Subject: Re: Mystery to Me From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 10:12:55 -0500 OUCH! Or is that an Oooops? Thanks for the explanation. I'm surprised that they didn't supply a little explanation to the photograph. Many thanks, Bob. Now I can sleep (smile). Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Hancock To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Mystery to Me Jerry - I called Dr. Haydar Al-Shukri today, and he told me the story of water in the vault. The vault was installed while he was working at St. Louis University, and he is currently at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock. The wires from the vault to the building were encased in PVC pipes. The seismometer was manufactured by Guralp. One day the instrument stopped working and they investigated as to why. After checking all the instrumentation in the building, they opened up the vault and it was filled with water. It turned out that a tree had fallen down and they brought in heavy equipment to remove the tree. Driving over the buried PVC pipe, the heavy vehicle had fractured the PVC pipe........then, there was a heavy rain, and water leaked into the broken PVC pipe which filled the vault with water. The vault was emptied and the instrument forward to Guralp for repair. Mystery Solved !!! Bob Hancock On May 13, 2010, at 5:53 AM, GPayton wrote: Looking at the photographs at http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html I couldn't help but be surprised at the last photograph. Water put in the vault? I've never see this before; why? Anyone explain? Thanks, Jerry
OUCH!  Or is that an Oooops?   = Thanks for=20 the explanation.  I'm surprised that they didn't supply a little=20 explanation to the photograph. 
 
Many thanks, Bob.  Now I can sleep=20 (smile).
 
Jerry
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bob = Hancock=20
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 = 10:03 AM
Subject: Re: Mystery to = Me

Jerry -

I called Dr. Haydar Al-Shukri today, and he told me the story of = water in=20 the vault.

The vault was installed while he was working at St. Louis = University, and=20 he is currently at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock. =  The wires=20 from the vault to the building were encased in PVC pipes.  The=20 seismometer was manufactured by Guralp.  One day the instrument = stopped=20 working and they investigated as to why.  After checking all the=20 instrumentation in the building, they opened up the vault and it was = filled=20 with water.  It turned out that a tree had fallen down and they = brought=20 in heavy equipment to remove the tree.  Driving over the buried = PVC pipe,=20 the heavy vehicle had fractured the PVC pipe........then, there was a = heavy=20 rain, and water leaked into the broken PVC pipe which filled the vault = with=20 water.  The vault was emptied and the instrument forward to = Guralp for=20 repair.

Mystery Solved !!!

Bob Hancock


On May 13, 2010, at 5:53 AM, GPayton wrote:
Looking at the photographs at  = http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html = =20 I couldn't help but be surprised at the last photograph.  Water = put in=20 the vault?  I've never see this before; why?  Anyone=20 explain?
 
Thanks,
Jerry

Subject: Another Question From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 10:43:07 -0500 Hmmmm? The water in the vault accident raises another question that might be of interest to the group. I would assume that Burlap's instruments are moisture resistant, but not water proof. Nevertheless, our personally built amateur sensors are not. If one were to build a similar setup as the U of Arkansas did, what be the best installation of the connecting pipe containing cables? Perhaps V-shape or dip with the pipe, allowing for drainage? Would some sort of a P-trap be applicable? How could one control or prevent condensation etc? I was a little concerned with their installation among all those trees. Having lived in Arkansas in 2008, I had severe noise level from the tree motions on windy days. (But, I suppose you have to go with what you got! Not all installations are ideal.) Regards to ALL, Jerry
Hmmmm?  The water in the vault accident = raises=20 another question that might be of interest to the group.
 
I would assume that Burlap's instruments are = moisture=20 resistant, but not water proof.  Nevertheless, our personally built = amateur=20 sensors are not. 
 
If one were to build a similar setup as the U of = Arkansas=20 did, what be the best installation of the connecting pipe=20 containing cables?  Perhaps V-shape or dip with the = pipe,=20 allowing for drainage? Would some sort of a P-trap be applicable?  = How=20 could one control or prevent condensation etc?
 
I was a little concerned with their installation = among all=20 those trees.  Having lived in Arkansas in 2008, I had severe noise = level=20 from the tree motions on windy days.  (But, I suppose you have to = go with=20 what you got! Not all installations are ideal.)
 
Regards to ALL,
Jerry
 
 
Subject: Re: Mystery to Me From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 17:37:40 EDT In a message dated 17/05/2010, icarus@......... writes: I called Dr. Haydar Al-Shukri today, and he told me the story of water in the vault. _http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html_ (http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html) The vault was installed while he was working at St. Louis University, and he is currently at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock. The wires from the vault to the building were encased in PVC pipes. The seismometer was manufactured by Guralp. One day the instrument stopped working and they investigated as to why. After checking all the instrumentation in the building, they opened up the vault and it was filled with water. It turned out that a tree had fallen down and they brought in heavy equipment to remove the tree. Driving over the buried PVC pipe, the heavy vehicle had fractured the PVC pipe........then, there was a heavy rain, and water leaked into the broken PVC pipe which filled the vault with water. The vault was emptied and the instrument forward to Guralp for repair. Hi Bob, One of my previous comments was that the cable pipe seemed to be buried only about 6" deep. That would agree with the crush damage. Drains and water pipes are normally ~18" below ground level for several very good reasons. This suggests cold weather. PVC pipe normally deforms and then springs back. This is still not very complementary about the performance of the seismometer. It should be waterproof and floating! Guralp did have some leakage problems with early seismometers. Quote: The CMG-40T is ''Self-contained in a waterproof stainless steel case'' Umm? If one were to build a similar setup as the U of Arkansas did, what be the best installation of the connecting pipe containing cables? Perhaps V-shape or dip with the pipe, allowing for drainage? Would some sort of a P-trap be applicable? How could one control or prevent condensation etc? On the site photo it looks as if the seismometer pit is downslope from the buildings. The ground is shale, which is fairly water resistant. The pit should have been provided with drainage and the cable extended beyond the seismometer and looped back. Threading cable through 18ft lengths of tube can be quite difficult. I hung the tube down a well and fed the cable in from the top. You can get reels of strip steel for threading electrical conduit. The concrete being poured looks as if it has stones in it. It should be cement and sand in equal proportions. You can't seal the vault due to air pressure changes. I was a little concerned with their installation among all those trees. Having lived in Arkansas in 2008, I had severe noise level from the tree motions on windy days. (But, I suppose you have to go with what you got! Not all installations are ideal.) I would expect the location to be severely effected by wind noise from the large tall trees. A seismometer needs to be well clear of any tree roots. This was supposed to be a professional quality installation, but it seems to be 'a bit short' on both planning and construction. I note that the seismometer site was moved about 290 x 180 ft back in 2007. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 17/05/2010, icarus@......... writes:
I called Dr. Haydar Al-Shukri today, and he told me the story of wa= ter in=20 the vault.
The vault was installed while he was working at St. Louis Universit= y, and=20 he is currently at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock. The wires= from=20 the vault to the building were encased in PVC pipes.  The seismomet= er was=20 manufactured by Guralp. One day the instrument stopped working and they= =20 investigated as to why. After checking all the instrumentation in the=20 building, they opened up the vault and it was filled with water. It= =20 turned out that a tree had fallen down and they brought in heavy equipme= nt to=20 remove the tree. Driving over the buried PVC pipe, the heavy vehicl= e had=20 fractured the PVC pipe........then, there was a heavy rain, and water le= aked=20 into the broken PVC pipe which filled the vault with water. The vault wa= s=20 emptied and the instrument forward to Guralp for=20 repair.
Hi Bob,
 
    One of my previous comments was that the cabl= e pipe=20 seemed to be buried only about 6" deep. That would agree with the cru= sh=20 damage. Drains and water pipes are normally ~18" below ground level for se= veral=20 very good reasons.
    This suggests cold weather. PVC pipe normally= =20 deforms and then springs back.
 
    This is still not very complementary about th= e=20 performance of the seismometer. It should be waterproof and floating! Gura= lp did=20 have some leakage problems with early seismometers.
    Quote: The CMG-40T is ''Self-contained in a= =20 waterproof stainless steel case'' Umm?
 
If one were to build a similar setup as the U of= =20 Arkansas did, what be the best installation of the connecting pipe= =20 containing cables?  Perhaps V-shape or dip with the= pipe,=20 allowing for drainage? Would some sort of a P-trap be applicable? = How=20 could one control or prevent condensation etc?
    On the site photo it looks as if the seismome= ter=20 pit is downslope from the buildings. The ground is shale, which is fairly= water=20 resistant. The pit should have been provided with drainage and the cable= =20 extended beyond the seismometer and looped back.
    Threading cable through 18ft lengths of tube= can be=20 quite difficult. I hung the tube down a well and fed the cable in from the= top.=20 You can get reels of strip steel for threading electrical conduit. 
    The concrete being poured looks as if it has= stones=20 in it. It should be cement and sand in equal proportions.
    You can't seal the vault due to air pressure= =20 changes.
I was a little concerned with their installation= among=20 all those trees. Having lived in Arkansas in 2008, I had severe noi= se=20 level from the tree motions on windy days. (But, I suppose you have to= go with=20 what you got! Not all installations are ideal.)
    I would expect the location to be severely ef= fected=20 by wind noise from the large tall trees. A seismometer needs to be well cl= ear of=20 any tree roots. This was supposed to be a professional quality installatio= n, but=20 it seems to be 'a bit short' on both planning and construction.
    I note that the seismometer site was moved ab= out=20 290 x 180 ft back in 2007.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Mystery to Me From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:22:50 -0700 I dont know if this will work but when I buried my setup I bought a bunch of those long mens socks made of like nylon and a big container of this blue chemical cat litter then I filled several socks with the cat litter tied them off at the ends then tied a length of dental floss to each sock and lowered them all around the base of the container. That was a couple years ago and things are still operational. I put foam on top of the can to protect from temp changes of direct sunlight in the hot summers. The cat litter is not to stop moisture just to provide a place for it to go to and from without coating everything with dew. It gets like 140F on the ground here in summer. Rain of like 2 inches in a single monsoon storm in july or august or september (unusual yet does happen in a short period of time in small areas here). We get avg of 7 inches (17.78cm per year). By code our water pipes are to be 18 inches below ground surface. I did my own water enterance and was required to do this. I recommend you use steel pipe on the pvc when you come above ground and solidly fix the pipe to some kind of foundation to prevent movement of the pipe. Pressure testing everything with a bicycle or tire pump to maybe 50psi for several hours. I do not know if any of this has worked since it has not been uncovered for some time. I just know I still am getting a signal from the old HS-10 geophone. The geophone appeared to have been exposed to water before i ever purchased it in the first place. But it still is functional. Prosit, :-) geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 2:37 PM Subject: Re: Mystery to Me > > In a message dated 17/05/2010, icarus@......... writes: > > I called Dr. Haydar Al-Shukri today, and he told me the story of water in > the vault. > _http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html_ > (http://www.eas.slu.edu/Earthquake_Center/NM/UALR/ualr.pict.html) > > The vault was installed while he was working at St. Louis University, and > he is currently at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock. The wires from > the vault to the building were encased in PVC pipes. The seismometer was > manufactured by Guralp. One day the instrument stopped working and they > investigated as to why. After checking all the instrumentation in the > building, they opened up the vault and it was filled with water. It turned out > that a tree had fallen down and they brought in heavy equipment to remove the > tree. Driving over the buried PVC pipe, the heavy vehicle had fractured the > PVC pipe........then, there was a heavy rain, and water leaked into the > broken PVC pipe which filled the vault with water. The vault was emptied and > the instrument forward to Guralp for repair. > > > > Hi Bob, > > One of my previous comments was that the cable pipe seemed to be > buried only about 6" deep. That would agree with the crush damage. Drains and > water pipes are normally ~18" below ground level for several very good > reasons. > This suggests cold weather. PVC pipe normally deforms and then springs > back. > > This is still not very complementary about the performance of the > seismometer. It should be waterproof and floating! Guralp did have some leakage > problems with early seismometers. > Quote: The CMG-40T is ''Self-contained in a waterproof stainless steel > case'' Umm? > > > If one were to build a similar setup as the U of Arkansas did, what be the > best installation of the connecting pipe containing cables? Perhaps > V-shape or dip with the pipe, allowing for drainage? Would some sort of a P-trap > be applicable? How could one control or prevent condensation etc? > > On the site photo it looks as if the seismometer pit is downslope from > the buildings. The ground is shale, which is fairly water resistant. The > pit should have been provided with drainage and the cable extended beyond > the seismometer and looped back. > Threading cable through 18ft lengths of tube can be quite difficult. I > hung the tube down a well and fed the cable in from the top. You can get > reels of strip steel for threading electrical conduit. > The concrete being poured looks as if it has stones in it. It should > be cement and sand in equal proportions. > You can't seal the vault due to air pressure changes. > > I was a little concerned with their installation among all those trees. > Having lived in Arkansas in 2008, I had severe noise level from the tree > motions on windy days. (But, I suppose you have to go with what you got! Not > all installations are ideal.) > > I would expect the location to be severely effected by wind noise from > the large tall trees. A seismometer needs to be well clear of any tree > roots. This was supposed to be a professional quality installation, but it > seems to be 'a bit short' on both planning and construction. > I note that the seismometer site was moved about 290 x 180 ft back in > 2007. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:35:45 -0700 I was assuming electrical noise of any type. Just about any KIND of noise can be handled in a similar fashion by tying eveything together to be ISO-Whatever. If two of the same kind and value of resistors are changed in temp identically then the chage should be somewhat invisible. Like if EVERYTHING is 3C how would you even tell it is 3C except that there is a mystry pressure causing an invisible accelerational pressure force if the gas into a great nothing nothing. In another 16 billion years it might be only 1.5c but that pressure will still be there if there is any temperature however slight. If any of that makes any sense to anyone. Like hey man like, PV=nRT or something like that ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 10:10 AM Subject: Re: Electronic noise > Good information and suggestions. However, I don't believe that Jon > mentioned the SOURCE of his interference or the DISTANCE of his needed run. > Both are important factors to consider. > Regards, > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Geoffrey > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 12:02 PM > Subject: Re: Electronic noise > > > At the local hardware store ACE BEST or whatever > I found a signal cable suitable for underground buriel > which has some kind of grease impregnated beween the shield > and the cable jacket to keep moisure out. > I installed a 40 foot run of it several years ago > and it still seems good. The shield is heavy copper foil > which makes the cable not as flexable as it might be with > a braided shield. You just need to shield the jacket from sunlight > everywhere it might be above ground. > > Also you should avoid what is called ground loops > which can indice unwanted noise inside the cable > this can be avoided by choosing your gound > and making sure the shield is broken at one side of the connection > or another to eliminate a DC path. I will typically > break the shield on the side opposite of the > side chosen as the primary ground. > > DC/LOW FREQUENCIES will travel deep within a conductor. > But like over 1 MHZ the current exhibits a skin effect > and only travels like within the first 1/8 inch of the surface > with that skin getting smaller/thinner as the frequency increases. > > I shoiuld imagine the impedance is also related to this skin effect. > > It seems to play a role in antenna design visible as gamma matching. > > Coaxial cable would be quite suitable for low frequencies > if 100% shielded and have a proper BALUNS to keep > RF out of the inside of the cable. > A BALUNS may be as simple as a series of > FERRITE beads at the open ends of the shield. > The broader the frequency block the more > beads you need and they are not cheap. > They come in sizes for one wire or a whole 1/4 inch cable > as a split bead. I have seen them at Radsio Shack > in the past. > You want to make sure what flows on the outside of a coax > does not leak into the inside. And, Vice Versa. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "GPayton" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 5:16 PM > Subject: Re: Electronic noise > > > > Jon, in the past I have observed that RCA type (audio) cable may not > have > > complete shielding; some ever have had a small thread of wires and > called it > > shielded. > > > > You might try coaxial cable. > > > > Regards, > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Jón Frímann > > To: PSN-Postlist > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:09 PM > > Subject: Electronic noise > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA > > cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not get > > electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do not want to > > switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage. > > > > What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on the RCA > > cable ? > > > > Regards, > > -- > > Jón Frímann Jónsson > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: AmaSeis question From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:55:23 -0600 Well here is a mystery.........I have used AmaSeis for years, thought I = understood it completely, but I can't figure this out. With everything set up and running normally, I unplugged a fully = operation sensor, working perfectly. I hooked up a coil and magnet, not a sensor, but just a coil and magnet = balanced. No surprises, the helicorder showed the trace above and below = the line, when the magnet was moved. At this point, again everything looked normal. The AmaSeis trace = numbers (show data values) would bounce from +100 to -100, so far so = good. However as the movement stopped, and the magnets/coil stopped = moving, the (show data values) settled in to record just background = numbers. As an examples, +10 to -18, BUT the negative number would = never go lower than -18. Unless I touched the device. I recorded 30 mins of background noise. Everything above the line (+) = look normal, you could see all the normal variations up and down, up = and down. Below the AmaSeis trace line (negative numbers) all the marks = were clipped at about -18. To make this more interesting, I copied this 30 mins trace and opened it = in Winquake.......There to my surprise, when viewing the (data points) = it showed that it contained all the + and all the - count, showing no = clipping at all. After uninstalling AmaSeis, and trying 10 other things, nothing = corrected the problem. Plugged in the original sensor and the clipping = was gone. Plugged in the problem coil and magnet and the problem was = back. More interesting still, once I turn on the AmaSeis filter 1-20 seconds = the clipping disappeared. I am using data Q194. In AmaSeis I tried different device setting, = gains, all that stuff, and nothing corrected the helicorder but applying = the filters. I have no ideas............If I use the filter settings in AmaSeis for = this new device there is no problem, it all looks 100% normal and = recorded every footstep up and below the trace line. If I remove the = filter the negative clipping on the helicorder returns. Thanks, Ted
Well here is a mystery.........I have = used AmaSeis=20 for years, thought I understood it completely, but I can't figure this=20 out.
 
With everything set up and running = normally, I=20 unplugged a fully operation sensor, working perfectly.
 
I hooked up a coil and magnet, not a = sensor, but=20 just a coil and magnet balanced.  No surprises, the helicorder = showed=20 the trace above and below the line, when the magnet was = moved.
At this point, again everything looked=20 normal.   The AmaSeis trace numbers (show data = values) would=20 bounce from +100 to -100, so far so good.   However as the = movement=20 stopped, and the magnets/coil stopped moving, the (show data values) = settled in=20 to record just background numbers.   As an examples, +10 to = -18, =20 BUT the negative number would never go lower than -18. Unless I touched = the=20 device.
 
I recorded 30 mins of background = noise. =20 Everything above the line (+) look normal, you could see all the normal=20 variations  up and down, up and down.  Below the AmaSeis trace = line=20 (negative numbers) all the marks were clipped at about -18.
 
To make this more interesting, I copied = this 30=20 mins trace and opened it in Winquake.......There to my surprise, when = viewing=20 the (data points) it showed that it contained all the + and all the - = count,=20 showing no clipping at all.
 
After uninstalling AmaSeis, and trying = 10 other=20 things, nothing corrected the problem.   Plugged in the = original=20 sensor and the clipping was gone.  Plugged in the problem coil and = magnet=20 and the problem was back.
 
More interesting still, once I turn on = the AmaSeis=20 filter 1-20 seconds the clipping disappeared.
 
I am using data Q194.   In = AmaSeis I=20 tried different device setting, gains, all that stuff, and nothing = corrected the=20 helicorder but applying the filters.
 
I have no ideas............If I use the = filter=20 settings in AmaSeis for this new device there is no problem, it all = looks 100%=20 normal and recorded every footstep up and below the trace = line.   If I=20 remove the filter the negative clipping on the helicorder = returns.
 
 
 
Thanks, Ted
Subject: More on PSDs From: Chuck / Judy Burch cjburch@........... Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 16:11:19 -0600 Thanks Matt, Karl and Chris for your responses. I am currently using a modified version of the PSD described on page 4 of Linear Tech's Application Note #3. I use an amplitude stabilized Wien bridge oscillator (5000 Hz) for excitation. The reference signal goes to an LF1011 comparator that drives an LT1034. The amplified signal goes to the - input of an LT1007; the LT1043 switches the + input between ground and the signal so that the LT1007 acts as a synchronous detector. (This circuit is also described in US patent #3940693.) This is followed by a 2 pole LPF. This arrangement works fine. The LPF eliminates the excitation artifacts. But the switching pulses still come through. Shielding does not help the pulse problem, so I conclude that what I'm seeing on the downstream part of my boards is magnetic or EM propagated pickup. Steel enclosures and/or ferrite beads might help, but I haven't tried either. On the argument that eliminating a noise source is better than trying to filter or shield it, I wondered if other PSD designs might be intrinsically quieter. I will try slowing the rise-time of the clock signal going to the LT1043 and I have a Maxim DG419 switch on order to try as well. I'll report in the event I have any success. Chuck __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: More on PSDs From: Matt Zieleman matthew.zieleman@......... Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 15:48:12 -0700 Hi Chuck This isn't quite noise though. Noise is generally random and can't be distinguished from the signal. There's really nothing you can do to remove noise. What you have is interference at a known frequency that is well outside the frequency range of the signal you are interested in. So it should be possible to use a low pass filter to remove the switching artifacts. What is the cut-off frequency of your filter? What's the DC offset to the signal input of the LT1043? This will be modulated by the clock and require a large amount of filtering to remove. Matt On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Chuck / Judy Burch wrote: > > Thanks Matt, Karl and Chris for your responses. > > I am currently using a modified version of the PSD described on page 4 of > Linear Tech's Application Note #3. I use an amplitude stabilized Wien > bridge oscillator (5000 Hz) for excitation. The reference signal goes to an > LF1011 comparator that drives an LT1034. The amplified signal goes to the - > input of an LT1007; the LT1043 switches the + input between ground and the > signal so that the LT1007 acts as a synchronous detector. (This circuit is > also described in US patent #3940693.) This is followed by a 2 pole LPF. > > This arrangement works fine. The LPF eliminates the excitation artifacts. > But the switching pulses still come through. > > Shielding does not help the pulse problem, so I conclude that what I'm > seeing on the downstream part of my boards is magnetic or EM propagated > pickup. Steel enclosures and/or ferrite beads might help, but I haven't > tried either. > > On the argument that eliminating a noise source is better than trying to > filter or shield it, I wondered if other PSD designs might be intrinsically > quieter. > > I will try slowing the rise-time of the clock signal going to the LT1043 > and I have a Maxim DG419 switch on order to try as well. > > I'll report in the event I have any success. > > > Chuck > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > Hi Chuck

This isn't quite noise though. Noise is gen= erally random and can't be distinguished from the signal. There's r= eally nothing you can do to remove noise. What you have is interference at = a known frequency that is well outside the frequency range of the signal yo= u are interested in. So it should be possible to use a low pass filter to r= emove the switching artifacts. =A0What is the cut-off frequency of your fil= ter?

What's the DC offset to the signal input of the LT1= 043? This will be modulated by the clock and require a large amount of filt= ering to remove.

Matt

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:11 PM, Chuck / Judy Burch <<= a href=3D"mailto:cjburch@...........">cjburch@...........> wr= ote:

Thanks Matt, Karl and Chris for your responses.

I am currently using a modified version of the PSD described on page 4 of L= inear Tech's Application Note #3. =A0I use an amplitude stabilized Wien= bridge oscillator (5000 Hz) for excitation. =A0The reference signal goes t= o an LF1011 comparator that drives an LT1034. =A0The amplified signal goes = to the - input of =A0an LT1007; =A0the LT1043 switches the + input between = ground and the signal so that the LT1007 acts as a synchronous detector. = =A0(This circuit is also described in US patent #3940693.) =A0This is follo= wed by a 2 pole LPF.

This arrangement works fine. =A0The LPF eliminates the excitation artifacts= .. =A0But the switching pulses still come through.

Shielding does not help the pulse problem, so I conclude that what I'm = seeing on the downstream part of my boards is magnetic or EM propagated pic= kup. =A0Steel enclosures and/or ferrite beads might help, but I haven't= tried either.

On the argument that eliminating a noise source is better than trying to fi= lter or shield it, I wondered if other PSD designs might be intrinsically q= uieter.

I will try slowing the rise-time of the clock signal going to the LT1043 an= d I have a Maxim DG419 switch on order to try as well.

I'll report in the event I have any success.


Chuck
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To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the messa= ge (first line only): unsubscribe
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Subject: Re: low noise PSD From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 20:44:38 -0400 Hi Chuck, An excellent design that Dave Nelson in California came up with from his satellite days can be seen at: http://bnordgren.org/seismo/FBV/1043_bridge.pdf note that R1 is now 4.7K, which works better. It is not really a PSD design but is acting more like a switched-capacitor, charge-transfer circuit. The 48pF sensor capacitors are substantially fully charged during each half cycle, leaving only short switching transients to be filtered, which is easy enough to do. In the design as shown, there is a pole in the baseband response at about 320 Hz. and it gives a sensitivity of about 1200 V/m. The driven, fixed, sensor plates are on two sides of a double sided PC board, resulting in a stray capacitance Cc of about 130pF, which doesn't have much effect. The moving, grounded, plates are above and below the driven plates with a spacing of about 1/32", making Ca and Cb somewhere around 48pF. The fact that the moving plates are grounded is a significant advantage in reducing the number of wires bridging the pivots. To insure gain stability we use an external clock based on a ceramic resonator rather than the internal oscillator in the LTC1043. Tests show that its noise is very nearly as good as some professional instruments and is significantly better than any sites we have been able to find. You can get an idea of its construction and performance at: http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm Best regards, Brett At 12:07 PM 5/16/2010, you wrote: >Here's a technical question about seismometer electronics. What >phase sensitive detector design do you recommend for low noise? > >I have built PSDs using an op amp and FET switches (the amp switches >between gain of +1 and -1). Analog Technology and National Semi >describe these circuits in application notes. And you can use a >switch with an instrumentation amp. But these switches produce huge >high frequency noise pulses that are very difficult to shield out or >filter out. > >You could also use IC multipliers like the AD630 or a Gilbert cell >multiplier. I have not tried either of these and wonder if they are >worth the cost and/or trouble of construction. > >Any suggestions? > >Thanks, > >Chuck Burch > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Electronic noise From: John Cole johncole0722@....... Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 21:03:36 -0700 (PDT) =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Geoffrey =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Tue, May 18, 2010 10:35:45 A= M=0ASubject: Re: Electronic noise=0A=0AI was assuming electrical noise of a= ny type.=0AJust about any KIND of noise can be handled=0Ain a similar fashi= on by tying eveything=0Atogether to be ISO-Whatever.=0AIf two of the same k= ind and value of resistors=0Aare changed in temp identically then the chage= =0Ashould be somewhat invisible.=0A=0ALike if EVERYTHING is 3C how would yo= u even=0Atell it is 3C except that there is a mystry pressure=0Acausing an = invisible accelerational pressure force if the gas into=0Aa great nothing n= othing. In another 16 billion years it might=0Abe only 1.5c but that pressu= re will still be there if=0Athere is any temperature however slight.=0A=0AI= f any of that makes any sense to anyone.=0A=0ALike hey man like, PV=3DnRT o= r something like that ??=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: "GPa= yton" =0ATo: =0ASent: Friday, = May 14, 2010 10:10 AM=0ASubject: Re: Electronic noise=0A=0A=0A> Good inform= ation and suggestions.=A0 However, I don't believe that Jon=0A> mentioned t= he SOURCE of his interference or the DISTANCE of his needed run.=0A> Both a= re important factors to consider.=0A> Regards,=0A> Jerry=0A>=0A>=A0 ----- O= riginal Message ----- =0A>=A0 From: Geoffrey=0A>=A0 To: psn-l@.............. m=0A>=A0 Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 12:02 PM=0A>=A0 Subject: Re: Electronic= noise=0A>=0A>=0A>=A0 At the local hardware store ACE BEST or whatever=0A>= =A0 I found a signal cable suitable for underground buriel=0A>=A0 which has= some kind of grease impregnated beween the shield=0A>=A0 and the cable jac= ket to keep moisure out.=0A>=A0 I installed a 40 foot run of it several yea= rs ago=0A>=A0 and it still seems good. The shield is heavy copper foil=0A>= =A0 which makes the cable not as flexable as it might be with=0A>=A0 a brai= ded shield. You just need to shield the jacket from sunlight=0A>=A0 everywh= ere it might be above ground.=0A>=0A>=A0 Also you should avoid what is call= ed ground loops=0A>=A0 which can indice unwanted noise inside the cable=0A>= =A0 this can be avoided by choosing your gound=0A>=A0 and making sure the s= hield is broken at one side of the connection=0A>=A0 or another to eliminat= e a DC path. I will typically=0A>=A0 break the shield on the side opposite = of the=0A>=A0 side chosen as the primary ground.=0A>=0A>=A0 DC/LOW FREQUENC= IES will travel deep within a conductor.=0A>=A0 But like over 1 MHZ the cur= rent exhibits a skin effect=0A>=A0 and only travels like within the first 1= /8 inch of the surface=0A>=A0 with that skin getting smaller/thinner as the= frequency increases.=0A>=0A>=A0 I shoiuld imagine the impedance is also re= lated to this skin effect.=0A>=0A>=A0 It seems to play a role in antenna de= sign visible as gamma matching.=0A>=0A>=A0 Coaxial cable would be quite sui= table for low frequencies=0A>=A0 if 100% shielded and have a proper BALUNS = to keep=0A>=A0 RF out of the inside of the cable.=0A>=A0 A BALUNS may be as= simple as a series of=0A>=A0 FERRITE beads at=A0 the open ends of the shie= ld.=0A>=A0 The broader the frequency block the more=0A>=A0 beads you need a= nd they are not cheap.=0A>=A0 They come in sizes for one wire or a whole 1/= 4 inch cable=0A>=A0 as a split bead. I have seen them at Radsio Shack=0A>= =A0 in the past.=0A>=A0 You want to make sure what flows on the outside of = a coax=0A>=A0 does not leak into the inside. And, Vice Versa.=0A>=0A>=0A>= =A0 ----- Original Message ----- =0A>=A0 From: "GPayton" =0A>=A0 To: =0A>=A0 Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 201= 0 5:16 PM=0A>=A0 Subject: Re: Electronic noise=0A>=0A>=0A>=A0 > Jon, in the= past I have observed that RCA type (audio) cable may not=0A> have=0A>=A0 >= complete shielding; some ever have had a small thread of wires and=0A> cal= led it=0A>=A0 > shielded.=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 > You might try coaxial cable.=0A= >=A0 >=0A>=A0 > Regards,=0A>=A0 > Jerry=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 >=A0 ----- Original= Message ----- =0A>=A0 >=A0 From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann=0A>=A0 >=A0 To: PSN-Postl= ist=0A>=A0 >=A0 Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:09 PM=0A>=A0 >=A0 Subject: = Electronic noise=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 >=A0 Hi all,=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 >=A0= I did replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA=0A= >=A0 >=A0 cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I did not g= et=0A>=A0 >=A0 electronic noise. But with the RCA cable I do. I rather do n= ot want to=0A>=A0 >=A0 switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to m= anage.=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 >=A0 What might be the reason why I am seeing electr= onic noise on the RCA=0A>=A0 >=A0 cable ?=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 >=A0 Regards,=0A>= =A0 >=A0 -- =0A>=A0 >=A0 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 >=A0 ___= _______________________________________________________=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 >= =A0 Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A>=A0 >=0A>=A0 >=A0 To lea= ve this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=0A>=A0 >=A0 the body o= f the message (first line only): unsubscribe=0A>=A0 >=A0 See http://www.sei= smicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.=0A>=A0 >=0A>=0A>=A0 _______= ___________________________________________________=0A>=0A>=A0 Public Seism= ic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A>=0A>=A0 To leave this list email PSN-L-R= EQUEST@.............. with=0A>=A0 the body of the message (first line only)= : unsubscribe=0A>=A0 See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more i= nformation.=0A>=0A=0A=0A___________________________________________________= _______=0A=0APublic Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A=0ATo leave this= list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with =0Athe body of the message (f= irst line only): unsubscribe=0ASee http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html = for more information.=0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Geoffrey <gmvoeth@...........>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Tue, May 18, 2010 10:35:45 AM
Subject: Re: Electronic noise

I = was assuming electrical noise of any type.
Just about any KIND of noise = can be handled
in a similar fashion by tying eveything
together to be= ISO-Whatever.
If two of the same kind and value of resistors
are cha= nged in temp identically then the chage
should be somewhat invisible.
Like if EVERYTHING is 3C how would you even
tell it is 3C except th= at there is a mystry pressure
causing an invisible accelerational pressu= re force if the gas into
a great nothing nothing. In another 16 billion = years it might
be only 1.5c but that pressure will still be there if
= there is any temperature however slight.

If any of that makes any sense to anyone.

Li= ke hey man like, PV=3DnRT or something like that ??


----- Origin= al Message -----
From: "GPayton" <gpayton@.............&g= t;
To: <psn-l@..............>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 20= 10 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Electronic noise


> Good informati= on and suggestions.  However, I don't believe that Jon
> mention= ed the SOURCE of his interference or the DISTANCE of his needed run.
>= ; Both are important factors to consider.
> Regards,
> Jerry>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Geoff= rey
>  To: psn-l@..............
>  Sent: Fri= day, May 14, 2010 12:02 PM
>  Subject: Re: Electronic noise
><= BR>>
>  At the local hardware store ACE BEST or whatever
&= gt;  I found a signal cable suitable for underground buriel
>&nb= sp; which has some kind of grease impregnated beween the shield
>&nbs= p; and the cable jacket to keep moisure out.
>  I installed a 40= foot run of it several years ago
>  and it still seems good. Th= e shield is heavy copper foil
>  which makes the cable not as fl= exable as it might be with
>  a braided shield. You just need to= shield the jacket from sunlight
>  everywhere it might be above= ground.
>
>  Also you should avoid what is called ground = loops
>  which can indice unwanted noise inside the cable
>= ;  this can be avoided by choosing your gound
>  and making= sure the shield is broken at one side of the connection
>  or another to eliminate a DC path. I will typical= ly
>  break the shield on the side opposite of the
> = side chosen as the primary ground.
>
>  DC/LOW FREQUENCIE= S will travel deep within a conductor.
>  But like over 1 MHZ th= e current exhibits a skin effect
>  and only travels like within= the first 1/8 inch of the surface
>  with that skin getting sma= ller/thinner as the frequency increases.
>
>  I shoiuld im= agine the impedance is also related to this skin effect.
>
>&nb= sp; It seems to play a role in antenna design visible as gamma matching.>
>  Coaxial cable would be quite suitable for low frequenci= es
>  if 100% shielded and have a proper BALUNS to keep
>&= nbsp; RF out of the inside of the cable.
>  A BALUNS may be as s= imple as a series of
>  FERRITE beads at  the open ends of the shield.
>  The broader the frequency block the more=
>  beads you need and they are not cheap.
>  They co= me in sizes for one wire or a whole 1/4 inch cable
>  as a split= bead. I have seen them at Radsio Shack
>  in the past.
>&= nbsp; You want to make sure what flows on the outside of a coax
>&nbs= p; does not leak into the inside. And, Vice Versa.
>
>
>&= nbsp; ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "GPayton" <gpayton@.............>
>  To: <psn-l@webtronics= ..com>
>  Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 5:16 PM
>&nb= sp; Subject: Re: Electronic noise
>
>
>  > Jon, i= n the past I have observed that RCA type (audio) cable may not
> have
>  > complete shielding; some ever have had a small thr= ead of wires and
> called it
>  > shielded.
>&nbs= p; >
>  > You might try coaxial cable.
>  ><= BR>>  > Regards,
>  > Jerry
>  >
= >  >  ----- Original Message -----
>  > = ; From: J=F3n Fr=EDmann
>  >  To: PSN-Postlist
>&n= bsp; >  Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 7:09 PM
>  >&nb= sp; Subject: Electronic noise
>  >
>  >
>=   >  Hi all,
>  >
>  >  I did= replace my cable the other day from Cat-5 shielded cable to a RCA
>&= nbsp; >  cable that is also shielded. But with the Cat-5 cable I di= d not get
>  >  electronic noise. But with the RCA cable= I do. I rather do not want to
>  >  switch back to the Cat-5 cable, as it is harder to manage.
>  >
>&nbs= p; >  What might be the reason why I am seeing electronic noise on = the RCA
>  >  cable ?
>  >
>  &= gt;  Regards,
>  >  --
>  >  J= =F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson
>  >
>  >  ______= ____________________________________________________
>  >
= >  >  Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
>&n= bsp; >
>  >  To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
>  >  the bo= dy of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
>  >  S= ee http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
>&nb= sp; >
>
>  __________________________________________________________
>
>=   Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
>
>  To= leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
>  the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe=
>  See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more informatio= n.
>


_____________________________________________________= _____

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave th= is list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more infor= mation.
Subject: Re: More on PSDs From: karlc karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 09:21:40 -0700 Hi Chuck, Here are some thoughts. It sounds like your noise may be due to grounding or power supply issues. The comparator is going to take short current transients from the power supply each time it switches. Unless these transients are supplied from sources not shared with the analog circuitry there is likely to be noise getting through. By not shared, I don't necessarily mean different power supplies, but enough isolation in various part os the shared power supplies that noise in one section doesn't get into another. Some op-amps have very poor power supply rejection at high frequencies. Some actually have gain from one of the power supplies to the output at some frequencies! A traditional way to help this is with bypass capacitors from the power supplies to ground at the parts consuming the transient currents. The electrical path from each capacitor to the switching part it is connected to should be short (5-10mm is good), and the capacitors should preferably be multilayer ceramic of 0.1uF or more. There should also be some solid tantalum capacitors in the 20-50uF range from the power supplies to ground. Aluminum electrolytic capacitors, unless of a low ESR type, are probably not much use in reducing high-frequency noise. One source is when these switching current spikes travel along conductors which are also used as analog grounds. The current spikes cause voltage drop across the conductors which shows up as a signal. This is more of a circuit layout problem than a schematic problem, but the overall goal is not to have any transient currents travel through conductors where a voltage drop along that path will affect the signal output. This isn't always easy or even possible, but is a good place to start. Sometimes isolating things with ferrite beads, as you mentioned, can provide enough impedance to reduce the high-frequency currents. Sometimes decoupling resistors (up to a few ohms) in series with power supplies in strategic places can provide an impedance for bypass capacitors to "break against" to improve filtering. These are often installed as a PI section, with a bypass capacitor from each side of the resistor to ground. Putting everything on a ground plane is a brute-force approach that usually improves things. Karl On 05/18/2010 03:11 PM, Chuck / Judy Burch wrote: > > Thanks Matt, Karl and Chris for your responses. > > I am currently using a modified version of the PSD described on page 4 > of Linear Tech's Application Note #3. I use an amplitude stabilized > Wien bridge oscillator (5000 Hz) for excitation. The reference signal > goes to an LF1011 comparator that drives an LT1034. The amplified > signal goes to the - input of an LT1007; the LT1043 switches the + > input between ground and the signal so that the LT1007 acts as a > synchronous detector. (This circuit is also described in US patent > #3940693.) This is followed by a 2 pole LPF. > > This arrangement works fine. The LPF eliminates the excitation > artifacts. But the switching pulses still come through. > > Shielding does not help the pulse problem, so I conclude that what I'm > seeing on the downstream part of my boards is magnetic or EM propagated > pickup. Steel enclosures and/or ferrite beads might help, but I haven't > tried either. > > On the argument that eliminating a noise source is better than trying to > filter or shield it, I wondered if other PSD designs might be > intrinsically quieter. > > I will try slowing the rise-time of the clock signal going to the LT1043 > and I have a Maxim DG419 switch on order to try as well. > > I'll report in the event I have any success. > > > Chuck > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: More on PSDs From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 20:03:34 -0700 Hello PSN guys; Just a small note about ferrite beads. Back in the late seventies i worked with A company named Omni Spectra Tuning Oscillators And learned that the ferrite beads MUST be designed to fit snugly onto any wire it is meant to shield. This means it is made for a certain exact guage of wire. These we called super beads and i think they are more expensive and harder to aquire. As for the noise of which you speak. Assymetrical results about the baseline. I have had this problem too and it seems to relate to an unbalanced AC signal possibly power line close by affecting the circuitry at the front end. It is difficult to remove but proper grounding shielding balancing between the differential lines to ground within the front end seems to deal with this kind of problem. As for the 3 deg C ?? Hey Man where you all been. Im talking about the Universal background temperature as it relates to the big bang. It is actually the mysterious accelerator force causing an acceleration of universal expansion. It represents a pressure spread out over the entire universe, a very very big place. Between it and entropy and a lack of damping the entire universe makes some kind of sense to me. How do you seek equilibrium without any friction or other resistances to help you. It sort of explains everything. There really must be a great nothing nothing into which we are expanding. No friction no nothing to stop us. You know... like Stephen Hawkings black hole, When God rested he made a mistake. He sat on a Black Hole, Now where is that God guy when you need him ??? Too bad it was not the Devil who sat on the Black hole. Best Regards, geoff :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: "karlc" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 9:21 AM Subject: Re: More on PSDs > Hi Chuck, > > Here are some thoughts. > > It sounds like your noise may be due to grounding or power supply > issues. The comparator is going to take short current transients from > the power supply each time it switches. Unless these transients are > supplied from sources not shared with the analog circuitry there is > likely to be noise getting through. By not shared, I don't necessarily > mean different power supplies, but enough isolation in various part os > the shared power supplies that noise in one section doesn't get into > another. > > Some op-amps have very poor power supply rejection at high frequencies. > Some actually have gain from one of the power supplies to the output at > some frequencies! > > A traditional way to help this is with bypass capacitors from the power > supplies to ground at the parts consuming the transient currents. The > electrical path from each capacitor to the switching part it is > connected to should be short (5-10mm is good), and the capacitors should > preferably be multilayer ceramic of 0.1uF or more. There should also be > some solid tantalum capacitors in the 20-50uF range from the power > supplies to ground. Aluminum electrolytic capacitors, unless of a low > ESR type, are probably not much use in reducing high-frequency noise. > > One source is when these switching current spikes travel along > conductors which are also used as analog grounds. The current spikes > cause voltage drop across the conductors which shows up as a signal. > This is more of a circuit layout problem than a schematic problem, but > the overall goal is not to have any transient currents travel through > conductors where a voltage drop along that path will affect the signal > output. This isn't always easy or even possible, but is a good place to > start. Sometimes isolating things with ferrite beads, as you mentioned, > can provide enough impedance to reduce the high-frequency currents. > Sometimes decoupling resistors (up to a few ohms) in series with power > supplies in strategic places can provide an impedance for bypass > capacitors to "break against" to improve filtering. These are often > installed as a PI section, with a bypass capacitor from each side of the > resistor to ground. Putting everything on a ground plane is a > brute-force approach that usually improves things. > > Karl > > > On 05/18/2010 03:11 PM, Chuck / Judy Burch wrote: >> >> Thanks Matt, Karl and Chris for your responses. >> >> I am currently using a modified version of the PSD described on page 4 >> of Linear Tech's Application Note #3. I use an amplitude stabilized >> Wien bridge oscillator (5000 Hz) for excitation. The reference signal >> goes to an LF1011 comparator that drives an LT1034. The amplified >> signal goes to the - input of an LT1007; the LT1043 switches the + >> input between ground and the signal so that the LT1007 acts as a >> synchronous detector. (This circuit is also described in US patent >> #3940693.) This is followed by a 2 pole LPF. >> >> This arrangement works fine. The LPF eliminates the excitation >> artifacts. But the switching pulses still come through. >> >> Shielding does not help the pulse problem, so I conclude that what I'm >> seeing on the downstream part of my boards is magnetic or EM propagated >> pickup. Steel enclosures and/or ferrite beads might help, but I haven't >> tried either. >> >> On the argument that eliminating a noise source is better than trying to >> filter or shield it, I wondered if other PSD designs might be >> intrinsically quieter. >> >> I will try slowing the rise-time of the clock signal going to the LT1043 >> and I have a Maxim DG419 switch on order to try as well. >> >> I'll report in the event I have any success. >> >> >> Chuck >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of >> the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismos From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 11:55:01 +0000 There are some interesting pictures of seismographs at this site. Ed. http://sismordia.blogspot.com/search/label/Sunday%20seismometer
There are some interesting = pictures of=20 seismographs at this site.  Ed.
 
  = http://sismordia.blogspot.com/search/label/Sunday%20seismometer<= /FONT>
 
 
Subject: PSD noise trouble From: Chuck / Judy Burch cjburch@........... Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 14:39:43 -0600 Thanks to everyone who made suggestions on eliminating high frequency noise pulses produced by an analog switch, especially Karl Cunningham and Walt Jung. The problem was that high frequency switching pulses got through the DC power bypass capacitors at the chip and propagated on the power supply lines and ground over the whole circuit. I was using 0.1 uF bypass caps on each chip power connection. When I used a 100 uF electrolytic in parallel with a 1.0 uF film cap to bypass the switch's power connections the problem effectively disappeared. Other schemes might work just as well or better - these were components I had on hand. Some conclusions: 1. Bypassing PS connections at each chip is not overkill. 2. Ordinary bypass practice (0.1 uF to ground at each power connection) is fine in most circumstances - but not all. 3. Try not to mix low level analog circuits with switching circuits - and be very careful if you do. 4. Don't use that switching power supply you salvaged from a dead PC, except as a source of parts. Thanks again, Chuck Burch __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSD noise trouble From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 16:27:24 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck / Judy Burch" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: PSD noise trouble > > Thanks to everyone who made suggestions on eliminating high frequency > noise pulses produced by an analog switch, especially Karl Cunningham > and Walt Jung. > > The problem was that high frequency switching pulses got through the DC > power bypass capacitors at the chip and propagated on the power supply > lines and ground over the whole circuit. I was using 0.1 uF bypass caps > on each chip power connection. When I used a 100 uF electrolytic in > parallel with a 1.0 uF film cap to bypass the switch's power connections > the problem effectively disappeared. Other schemes might work just as > well or better - these were components I had on hand. > > Some conclusions: > > 1. Bypassing PS connections at each chip is not overkill. > > 2. Ordinary bypass practice (0.1 uF to ground at each power connection) > is fine in most circumstances - but not all. > > 3. Try not to mix low level analog circuits with switching circuits - > and be very careful if you do. > > 4. Don't use that switching power supply you salvaged from a dead PC, > except as a source of parts. Different signals are composed of different frequency profiles. ( square, sine etc ???) Different frequencies are handled in different ways. Are you dealing with surficial currents or deep wire currents When you deal with such noise ? Are you able to speak and make yourself understood too peoples not within your skill field ? I much prefer layman speech to engineering speech. It is how i was trained. The military used to be very good at taking a 500 series university course and condensing out the garbage to present only the important stuff to the high school drop out. They do not teach us to communicate with academia. Only with our own military kind. Can any of you do that for me ?? Teach me your solution in terms I can understand. There needs to be a general noise attack that will work against all kinds of noises. I guess as a member of the PRP they may very well want one dead rather then let them communicate with anyone outside the group. Best regards, geoff > > > Thanks again, > > Chuck Burch > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PSD noise trouble From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 20:33:22 EDT In a message dated 27/05/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: Can any of you do that for me ?? Teach me your solution in terms I can understand. Hi Geoff, The amount of protection needed to prevent the current drawn by one IC from effecting another depends on what they are doing and on the properties of the circuit. A capacitor also has some internal resistance and some inductance. Some ICs sink supply currents of over an amp when switching. This can effect the voltage supplies to other circuits due to the resistance of the circuit board wiring and the bypass capacity to earth. It can effect the signal and the offset of an opamp - check the frequency plot of the power supply rejection ratio on the data sheet. Ceramic capacitors and tantalum electrolytics have low internal resistances and can supply large current pulses. Aluminium electrolytics and film capacitors tend to have significant internal resistances. It may be practical to insert small resistances in series with the IC supply rails and the bypass capacitors of the switching circuit. You can also add bypass wires in parallel with the supply rail tracks. This can also be done for the input opamp of your amplifier. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 27/05/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:
Can any=20 of you do that for me ??
Teach me your solution in terms I
can=20 understand.
Hi Geoff,
 
    The amount of protection needed to prevent th= e=20 current drawn by one IC from effecting another depends on what they are do= ing=20 and on the properties of the circuit. A capacitor also has some internal= =20 resistance and some inductance. Some ICs sink supply currents of over = ;an=20 amp when switching. This can effect the voltage supplies to other cir= cuits=20 due to the resistance of the circuit board wiring and the bypass capacity= to=20 earth. It can effect the signal and the offset of an opamp - check th= e=20 frequency plot of the power supply rejection ratio on the data sheet.= =20 Ceramic capacitors and tantalum electrolytics have low internal resis= tances=20 and can supply large current pulses. Aluminium electrolytics and film=20 capacitors tend to have significant internal resistances. 
    It may be practical to insert small resistanc= es in=20 series with the IC supply rails and the bypass capacitors of the swit= ching=20 circuit. You can also add bypass wires in parallel with the supply rail tr= acks.=20 This can also be done for the input opamp of your amplifier.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Seismos From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 08:18:38 -0600 Ed, Thank you for these pictures, they are great.............One = question for the group. What was the reasoning behind the very large = masses. The use of large masses seems to be repeated. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Edward Ianni=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:55 AM Subject: Seismos There are some interesting pictures of seismographs at this site. Ed. http://sismordia.blogspot.com/search/label/Sunday%20seismometer
Ed,  Thank you for these pictures, = they are=20 great.............One question for the group.   What was the = reasoning=20 behind the very large masses.   The use of large masses seems = to be=20 repeated.
Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Edward=20 Ianni
Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 = 5:55=20 AM
Subject: Seismos

There are some interesting = pictures of=20 seismographs at this site.  Ed.
 
  = http://sismordia.blogspot.com/search/label/Sunday%20seismometer
 
 
Subject: Re: Seismos From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 19:05:13 -0400 Ted, Yes, the pictures were very interesting. I'll second your thanks, to Ed. Back in those days, the amplification of seismic motion was generally done with mechanical linkages operating physical pens. A large mass was necessary so that the linkage forces didn't greatly retard its motion. Today with electronic motion sensing and amplification, and using very efficient pivots, a hundred grams or so is plenty. And in fact, with feedback instruments, making the mass too large can create problems. Regards, Brett At 10:18 AM 5/27/2010, you wrote: >Ed, Thank you for these pictures, they are great.............One >question for the group. What was the reasoning behind the very >large masses. The use of large masses seems to be repeated. >Thanks, Ted >----- Original Message ----- >From: Edward Ianni >To: psn-l@.............. >Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 5:55 AM >Subject: Seismos > >There are some interesting pictures of seismographs at this site. Ed. > > >http://sismordia.blogspot.com/search/label/Sunday%20seismometer > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismos From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 27 May 2010 20:39:33 EDT In a message dated 27/05/2010, tchannel@............ writes: _http://sismordia.blogspot.com/search/label/Sunday%20seismometer_ (http://sismordia.blogspot.com/search/label/Sunday%20seismometer) One question for the group. What was the reasoning behind the very large masses. The use of large masses seems to be repeated. Thanks, Ted Hi Ted, These seismometers were all designed before the days of electronic amplifiers. Two main detection systems were in operation to supply some signal gain. The early mechanical seismometers relied for gain on coupled lever systems, usually driving a point scriber sliding on smoked paper or smoked glass. The maximum gain achieved was about x200, but some were x10 or less. Air and oil damping systems were used. Early seismometers were not often damped. Due to the inevitable friction / stiction in the lever systems, a very large driving mass was required to give an adequate performance at a high gain. Mirror systems were used in seismoscopes, but increasing the sensitivity by using multiple reflections does not seem to have been tried. The Russian / Galitzine seismometers post 1903 were physically much smaller. Note that the horizontal seismometer is also shown. They used coil + magnet detection systems driving a long period galvanometer with a flat surface silvered mirror. The mirror reflected a beam of light to a focus on a drum of photographic paper in a blacked out room. Some of the gain was electrical and some was optical, but the combined gains were more than adequate. Magnetic induction velocity damping was used on these lower mass systems. But the photographic paper needed to be developed, fixed and dried before it could be scanned and measured. This is a fairly expensive process with commercial paper and chemicals and it takes a significant amount of operator time, but it was widely used before the development of semiconductor electronics in the 1970's. I wonder what happened to the early method of producing photo sensitive paper by dipping ordinary paper in Silver Nitrate solution? The development of long period vertical seismometers was rapid after the work of LaCoste on zero length springs in the mid 1930's and the development of Elinvar low Tc alloy springs. Curiously, although good galvanometers were available before 1880, they were first applied in 1903 to the Russian seismometers. The use of optical systems did enable the construction of small, high sensitivity instruments. Type history - seismology - seismometer - seismograph etc into Google? I like the reference, since you can adjust the enlargement. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 27/05/2010, tchannel@............ writes:
 
One question for the group. What= was the=20 reasoning behind the very large masses. The use of large masses seems to= be=20 repeated. Thanks,=20 Ted
Hi Ted,
 
    These seismometers were all designed before= the=20 days of electronic amplifiers. Two main detection systems were in operatio= n to=20 supply some signal gain. The early mechanical seismometers relied for gain= on=20 coupled lever systems, usually driving a point scriber sliding on smo= ked=20 paper or smoked glass. The maximum gain achieved was about x200, but= some=20 were x10 or less. Air and oil damping systems were used. Early seismo= meters=20 were not often damped. Due to the inevitable friction / stiction in= the=20 lever systems, a very large driving mass was required to give an adeq= uate=20 performance at a high gain. Mirror systems were used in seismoscopes, but= =20 increasing the sensitivity by using multiple reflections does not seem to= have=20 been tried.
 
    The Russian / Galitzine seismometers post 190= 3 were=20 physically much smaller. Note that the horizontal seismometer is also show= n.=20 They used coil + magnet detection systems driving a long period=20 galvanometer with a flat surface silvered mirror. The mirror reflecte= d a=20 beam of light to a focus on a drum of photographic paper in a blacked= out=20 room. Some of the gain was electrical and some was optical, but the= =20 combined gains were more than adequate. Magnetic induction velocity dampin= g was=20 used on these lower mass systems. But the photographic paper needed to be= =20 developed, fixed and dried before it could be scanned and measured. This= is a=20 fairly expensive process with commercial paper and chemicals and it takes= a=20 significant amount of operator time, but it was widely used befo= re the=20 development of semiconductor electronics in the 1970's. I wonder what happ= ened=20 to the early method of producing photo sensitive paper by dipping ordinary= paper=20 in Silver Nitrate solution?
 
    The development of long period vertical=20 seismometers was rapid after the work of LaCoste on zero length= =20 springs in the mid 1930's and the development of Elinvar low Tc alloy=20 springs.
 
    Curiously, although good galvanometers were= =20 available before 1880, they were first applied in 1903 to the Russian=20 seismometers. The use of optical systems did enable the construction=20 of small, high sensitivity instruments. Type history - seismology -= =20 seismometer - seismograph etc into Google? I like the reference, since you= can=20 adjust the enlargement.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: AmaSeis and DataQ From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 08:35:14 -0600 Hi folks, I think I have a defective DataQ194. I am trying to obtain = another 194, to swap out, to confirm this. In the mean while, it has = been suggest to try a different channel on the DataQ which has channels = 1-4. My question is how to get AmaSeis to view channel 2 of DataQ? I have = no problem with AmaSeis seeing ch 1, on com port 1. But when I change = the input going into DataQ from ch 1 to ch 2, I see nothing in AmaSeis. Let's assume, I have everything connected and operating fine, with ch 1 = in dataQ, and AmaSeis see the data and displays it normally. Now I change the input cable in the dataq from ch 1 to ch 2. What do = I do next to get AmaSeis to see the trace? Perhaps I do nothing different in AmaSeis, and the reason I don't see = the trace in AmaSeis is the dataq is defective? I called Dataq service, and they seem to think it could be defective, so = I will swap it out when I get another. But if I can get a different ch = to appear in AmaSeis I will check all four channels. Thanks, Ted
Hi folks,  I think I have a = defective=20 DataQ194.    I am trying to obtain another 194, to swap = out, to=20 confirm this.   In the mean while, it has been suggest to try = a=20 different channel on the DataQ which has channels 1-4.
 
My question is how to get AmaSeis to = view channel 2=20 of DataQ?    I have no problem with AmaSeis seeing ch 1, = on com=20 port 1.   But when I change the input going into DataQ from ch = 1 to ch=20 2, I see nothing in AmaSeis.
 
Let's assume, I have everything = connected and=20 operating fine, with ch 1 in dataQ, and AmaSeis see the data and = displays it=20 normally.
 
Now I change the input cable in the = dataq from ch 1=20 to ch 2.    What do I do next to get AmaSeis to see the=20 trace?
 
Perhaps I do nothing different in = AmaSeis, and the=20 reason I don't see the trace in AmaSeis is the dataq is = defective?
 
I called Dataq service, and they seem = to think it=20 could be defective, so I will swap it out when I get = another.   But if=20 I can get a different ch to appear in AmaSeis I will check all four=20 channels.
 
Thanks, Ted
Subject: Re: AmaSeis and DataQ From: Robert McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 10:52:10 -0400 Have you tried recording with the regular Dataq software yet? That should be your next move. On 5/28/10, Ted Channel wrote: > Hi folks, I think I have a defective DataQ194. I am trying to obtain > another 194, to swap out, to confirm this. In the mean while, it has been > suggest to try a different channel on the DataQ which has channels 1-4. > > My question is how to get AmaSeis to view channel 2 of DataQ? I have no > problem with AmaSeis seeing ch 1, on com port 1. But when I change the > input going into DataQ from ch 1 to ch 2, I see nothing in AmaSeis. > > Let's assume, I have everything connected and operating fine, with ch 1 in > dataQ, and AmaSeis see the data and displays it normally. > > Now I change the input cable in the dataq from ch 1 to ch 2. What do I do > next to get AmaSeis to see the trace? > > Perhaps I do nothing different in AmaSeis, and the reason I don't see the > trace in AmaSeis is the dataq is defective? > > I called Dataq service, and they seem to think it could be defective, so I > will swap it out when I get another. But if I can get a different ch to > appear in AmaSeis I will check all four channels. > > Thanks, Ted __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: AmaSeis and DataQ From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 09:39:08 -0600 Hi Robert, Yes............I can see channel 1-4 in the dataq software viewer. When I make the cable change from ch 1 to ch 2 in dataq ch 2 is visible and recording. Now how can I make it visible in AmaSeis? Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McClure" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:52 AM Subject: Re: AmaSeis and DataQ > Have you tried recording with the regular Dataq software yet? That > should be your next move. > > On 5/28/10, Ted Channel wrote: >> Hi folks, I think I have a defective DataQ194. I am trying to obtain >> another 194, to swap out, to confirm this. In the mean while, it has >> been >> suggest to try a different channel on the DataQ which has channels 1-4. >> >> My question is how to get AmaSeis to view channel 2 of DataQ? I have >> no >> problem with AmaSeis seeing ch 1, on com port 1. But when I change the >> input going into DataQ from ch 1 to ch 2, I see nothing in AmaSeis. >> >> Let's assume, I have everything connected and operating fine, with ch 1 >> in >> dataQ, and AmaSeis see the data and displays it normally. >> >> Now I change the input cable in the dataq from ch 1 to ch 2. What do I >> do >> next to get AmaSeis to see the trace? >> >> Perhaps I do nothing different in AmaSeis, and the reason I don't see the >> trace in AmaSeis is the dataq is defective? >> >> I called Dataq service, and they seem to think it could be defective, so >> I >> will swap it out when I get another. But if I can get a different ch to >> appear in AmaSeis I will check all four channels. >> >> Thanks, Ted > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: AmaSeis and DataQ From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 10:07:56 +1000 Hey Ted, so that has to mean that the dataq unit ISNT faulty maybe you have a cable/connector fault between the dataq and the AmaSeis or that the input on the AmaSeis is faulty or the cable link between the AmaSeis and the computer cheers Dave Sydney Oz At 09:39 AM 5/28/2010 -0600, you wrote: >Hi Robert, Yes............I can see channel 1-4 in the dataq software >viewer. When I make the cable change from ch 1 to ch 2 in dataq ch 2 is >visible and recording. Now how can I make it visible in AmaSeis? > >Thanks, Ted > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: AmaSeis and DataQ From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 18:38:15 -0600 Dave, Good Idea, I will change all the cables. Thanks, Chris, Also good Idea, Perhaps, I could take a battery, and reduce it with resisters, to a known voltage, I don't have a variable power supply. Confirm these voltages with a meter, something like 100mv 200,300,500 etc all the way up to +10v, then -10v. It only seem to clip on large negative numbers, so I could rig up a +9 and a -9 volts, to see if it measure these incremental inputs. Thanks, All Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Nelson" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:07 PM Subject: Re: AmaSeis and DataQ > Hey Ted, > > so that has to mean that the dataq unit ISNT faulty > maybe you have a cable/connector fault between the dataq and the AmaSeis > or that the input on the AmaSeis is faulty or the cable link between the > AmaSeis > and the computer > > cheers > Dave > Sydney > Oz > > > At 09:39 AM 5/28/2010 -0600, you wrote: >>Hi Robert, Yes............I can see channel 1-4 in the dataq software >>viewer. When I make the cable change from ch 1 to ch 2 in dataq ch 2 is >>visible and recording. Now how can I make it visible in AmaSeis? >> >>Thanks, Ted >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: AmaSeis and DataQ From: "Dale Hardy" photon1@........... Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 17:09:31 +1000 Hi Ted As far as I know Amaseis will only record CH1, do as Bob mentioned, use DataQ for extra channels, or use Bob's software. Regards Dale -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Ted Channel Sent: Saturday, 29 May 2010 1:39 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: AmaSeis and DataQ Hi Robert, Yes............I can see channel 1-4 in the dataq software viewer. When I make the cable change from ch 1 to ch 2 in dataq ch 2 is visible and recording. Now how can I make it visible in AmaSeis? Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert McClure" To: Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:52 AM Subject: Re: AmaSeis and DataQ > Have you tried recording with the regular Dataq software yet? That > should be your next move. > > On 5/28/10, Ted Channel wrote: >> Hi folks, I think I have a defective DataQ194. I am trying to obtain >> another 194, to swap out, to confirm this. In the mean while, it has >> been >> suggest to try a different channel on the DataQ which has channels 1-4. >> >> My question is how to get AmaSeis to view channel 2 of DataQ? I have >> no >> problem with AmaSeis seeing ch 1, on com port 1. But when I change the >> input going into DataQ from ch 1 to ch 2, I see nothing in AmaSeis. >> >> Let's assume, I have everything connected and operating fine, with ch 1 >> in >> dataQ, and AmaSeis see the data and displays it normally. >> >> Now I change the input cable in the dataq from ch 1 to ch 2. What do I >> do >> next to get AmaSeis to see the trace? >> >> Perhaps I do nothing different in AmaSeis, and the reason I don't see the >> trace in AmaSeis is the dataq is defective? >> >> I called Dataq service, and they seem to think it could be defective, so >> I >> will swap it out when I get another. But if I can get a different ch to >> appear in AmaSeis I will check all four channels. >> >> Thanks, Ted > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismometer Questions From: jzambory@......... Date: Sat, 29 May 2010 23:20:07 -0600 Hello everyone, I am new to this hobby of seismology. After trying for years (I get sidetracked a lot) to make a seismometer (or is it seismograph???), I finally got it finished. I have made a Lehman horizontal seismometer. I am using WinSDR and WinQuake. I am using a Larry Cochrane 16bit A/D converter and his amp/filter board. I have a GPS receiver (Mr. Cochrane's too) for timing. I have photos of everything I will refer to at: www.flickr.com/photos/darksky123/ I changed a few things. I thought it would be very difficult for me to made a perfect knife edge for the pivot point so I epoxyed a ball bearing to the end of my steel rod. I sanded smooth the surface that it rests on, (not sure what it is called). Seems to work??? For my pickup magnet, I hung it down off the rod. I could not get it to hang properly when I tried it on the side of the rod. Made things twist. I got a bolt for the thing that the wire attaches to on the top piece. To vary the period of the arm, I just adjusted the length of the bolt. So my question. I read that I should be able to detect magnitude 6 and greater for earthquake around the world. For a while after I got things running, there were no large quakes. The first large one was the 7.2 Baja Claifornia quake on Easter Sunday. I got a great record of it (I was pretty much bouncing off the walls when I saw it). I have a photo of the computer monitor and of the Winquake output. Since then I have not detected much of anything. What really prompted me to write was not detecting the Vanuatu 7.2 quake from last week. I got a small squiggle, but not enough to put WinSDR into alarm and the time was a couple of minutes early from when the waves should have arrived according to the USGS. Compared to what I got with the Baja quake, I thought I should have gotten something. I realize it is a lot further away, but I look at outputs that are posted on Infiltec's website of amateur recordings and some people get great recordings of a lot of earthquakes and I get nothing. I am hoping the people here that are much more knowledgeable than I am will be able to point out improvements or mistakes that I am making. For my pick up coil, I originally had a coil from a relay. It was about an inch in diameter. It seemed to work for starting out. That was the pickup coil I was using when I got the Baja quake. I knew I had to get one with more turns of wire and a higher resistance, that one was only about 300 ohms. A local electronics shop had some 40AWG magnet wire, a 1/4 pound roll. I bought it and made a thing to roll it onto. I got about 1/3 of the way through and there was a break in the wire on the spool! I tried to join it together as best as I could, but 40 AWG wire is pretty small and hard to work with. It worked for a bit, but as I worked on a mount for the spool, the coil opened up. Not really feeling like playing with that tiny wire again, I looked through an electronics supply catalogue and found a 110Vac power relay that stated a coil resistance of 11K ohms. I bought it and in fact it has about 10.8 K ohms. I took the relay apart and got just the coil. The question I have about it is, does size matter? The coil itself is only about 1/2' in diameter. I look at other amatuer seismometers that I can find photos for and the coils are a lot larger. Should I get some larger gauge wire (36AWG?) and make a new coil? Or is the coil I have now OK? I only have it secured to a small piece of scrap 2x4 now. If the coil is Ok I will build a better mount for it. I believe the seismometer works. When I walk up to it, WinSDR shows movement and it usually goes into alarm unless I walk up very slowly. I have a road construction site very close to my house. The trace is very noisey during the day when the construction is going on. But in the eveings and at night, (See one of my photos you can see the trace go quiet at 7:00 p.m. when the construction shuts down for the night), the line gets a lot smaller. I can also tell when it is windy outside, by the output of my seiesmometer. I can also see a larger trace with the new coil inplace. So I think that the new coil did make an improvement in my system. The period of my system is about ten seconds. That is about as long as I am able to get it. I can't seem to get the 14+ I read about for some systems. Should I fight with it to get a longer period, or is ten seconds long enough? Is a ball bearing Ok for a pivot point? I sent a letter and photos to Mr. Cochrane and he told me to get rid of the wood I was using on my system. I had made a mount for the pick up coil magnet out of wood at first (it is now metal). It is easier for me to work with wood than metal. I have the copper plate for my dampening attached to the rod with a piece of wood. Is this OK? The original diagram I was working with says use wood. Should I get rid of it too and use metal? I have my seismometer orientated basically north-south. Is that Ok for North America or shoud I point it east-west? Should I be getting more earthquakes. Or for where I live, are things working as best as I can expect? I hope someone out there will be able to help me out and answer my questions. I have found in the past that if you are having a problem with a project, most likely someone out there had the same problem. Get with a group of people that have the same interests and you most likely will be able to get an answer. I am hoping that this will be the case. I am looking forward to my new hobby of seismology. If things work well I hope to make another one for the other direction and maybe even a verticle seismometer. I bought a three channel amp from Mr. Cochrane. Just in case... :-) Thanks for all your time. Kind of a long letter... Jeff Zambory Calgary, Alberta jzambory@......... __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Costa Rica 6.1.10 From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 09:45:38 -0500 It appears the arrival of P and S as projected by WinQuake isn't fitting this quake .. or is this due to the depth of the quake? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Will Oil Leak lead to Earthquakes ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 09:03:00 -0700 As the oil escapes from underground in the gulf off Louisiana might it somehow create earthquakes ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Will Oil Leak lead to Earthquakes ? From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 12:00:51 -0500 Geoffrey wrote: > As the oil escapes from underground > in the gulf off Louisiana > might it somehow create earthquakes ? > It isn't that far off into the Gulf ... unlike the Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands and Leeward Islands where there has been activity. The Louisiana area has been very quiet in the last year or more. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Will Oil Leak lead to Earthquakes ? From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 10:23:03 -0700 Geoffrey, To the earth, the leak is no different than pumping oil from the Gulf. I believe there are 36,000 wells in the Gulf. I'm not sure if all are pumping at this time. Don't worry about quakes. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 9:03 AM To: PSN-LIST Subject: Will Oil Leak lead to Earthquakes ? As the oil escapes from underground in the gulf off Louisiana might it somehow create earthquakes ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismometer Questions From: "Jim and Connie Lehman" lehmancj@........... Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 17:17:58 -0400 Jeff--greetings from Virginia: I looked at your pics on the site, and will make the following suggestions-- The way you have your pickup magnet--hanging DOWN makes for vertical motion pickup. Turn and counter balance as necessary the magnet 90 degrees for horizontal pickup- Make a coil of 3 in dia AND INTRODUCE ONLY 1/2 OF THE COIL IN THE STRONG MAGNETIC POLES. Your pics show a small size relay coil ---pretty well the whole thing in the magnetic field. Your net output is down or minimal. Making a good 3 in. coil of 5000 turns at least is challenging--#30, 32, 34 wire--size is not critical--as you found, #40 is too small and tears easily!!! As Larry says, do away with wood mounting, expecially for the coil. The wood mount for the damping system is probably ok. Try for 15 sec at least for the period of swing ---longer if possible- Overall your system is coming along, but with your design, you want to accent the HORIZONTAL motion. Best wishes in your seismic interests. Jim Lehman ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 1:20 AM Subject: Seismometer Questions > Hello everyone, > > I am new to this hobby of seismology. After trying for years (I get > sidetracked a lot) to make a > seismometer (or is it seismograph???), I finally got it finished. I have > made a Lehman > horizontal seismometer. I am using WinSDR and WinQuake. I am using a Larry > Cochrane > 16bit A/D converter and his amp/filter board. I have a GPS receiver (Mr. > Cochrane's too) for > timing. > > I have photos of everything I will refer to at: > > www.flickr.com/photos/darksky123/ > > I changed a few things. I thought it would be very difficult for me to > made a perfect knife edge > for the pivot point so I epoxyed a ball bearing to the end of my steel > rod. I sanded smooth the > surface that it rests on, (not sure what it is called). Seems to work??? > > For my pickup magnet, I hung it down off the rod. I could not get it to > hang properly when I > tried it on the side of the rod. Made things twist. > > I got a bolt for the thing that the wire attaches to on the top piece. To > vary the period of the > arm, I just adjusted the length of the bolt. > > So my question. I read that I should be able to detect magnitude 6 and > greater for earthquake > around the world. For a while after I got things running, there were no > large quakes. The first > large one was the 7.2 Baja Claifornia quake on Easter Sunday. I got a > great record of it > (I was pretty much bouncing off the walls when I saw it). I have a photo > of the computer > monitor and of the Winquake output. Since then I have not detected much of > anything. What > really prompted me to write was not detecting the Vanuatu 7.2 quake from > last week. I got a > small squiggle, but not enough to put WinSDR into alarm and the time was a > couple of > minutes early from when the waves should have arrived according to the > USGS. Compared > to what I got with the Baja quake, I thought I should have gotten > something. I realize it is a lot > further away, but I look at outputs that are posted on Infiltec's website > of amateur recordings > and some people get great recordings of a lot of earthquakes and I get > nothing. I am hoping > the people here that are much more knowledgeable than I am will be able to > point out > improvements or mistakes that I am making. > > For my pick up coil, I originally had a coil from a relay. It was about an > inch in diameter. It > seemed to work for starting out. That was the pickup coil I was using when > I got the Baja > quake. I knew I had to get one with more turns of wire and a higher > resistance, that one was > only about 300 ohms. A local electronics shop had some 40AWG magnet wire, > a 1/4 pound > roll. I bought it and made a thing to roll it onto. I got about 1/3 of the > way through and there > was a break in the wire on the spool! I tried to join it together as best > as I could, but 40 AWG > wire is pretty small and hard to work with. It worked for a bit, but as I > worked on a mount for > the spool, the coil opened up. Not really feeling like playing with that > tiny wire again, I looked > through an electronics supply catalogue and found a 110Vac power relay > that stated a coil > resistance of 11K ohms. I bought it and in fact it has about 10.8 K ohms. > I took the relay > apart and got just the coil. The question I have about it is, does size > matter? The coil itself is > only about 1/2' in diameter. I look at other amatuer seismometers that I > can find photos for > and the coils are a lot larger. Should I get some larger gauge wire > (36AWG?) and make a > new coil? Or is the coil I have now OK? I only have it secured to a small > piece of scrap 2x4 > now. If the coil is Ok I will build a better mount for it. > > I believe the seismometer works. When I walk up to it, WinSDR shows > movement and it > usually goes into alarm unless I walk up very slowly. I have a road > construction site very > close to my house. The trace is very noisey during the day when the > construction is going on. > But in the eveings and at night, (See one of my photos you can see the > trace go quiet at 7:00 > p.m. when the construction shuts down for the night), the line gets a lot > smaller. I can also tell > when it is windy outside, by the output of my seiesmometer. I can also see > a larger trace with > the new coil inplace. So I think that the new coil did make an improvement > in my system. > > The period of my system is about ten seconds. That is about as long as I > am able to get it. I > can't seem to get the 14+ I read about for some systems. Should I fight > with it to get a longer > period, or is ten seconds long enough? > > Is a ball bearing Ok for a pivot point? > > I sent a letter and photos to Mr. Cochrane and he told me to get rid of > the wood I was using > on my system. I had made a mount for the pick up coil magnet out of wood > at first (it is now > metal). It is easier for me to work with wood than metal. I have the > copper plate for my > dampening attached to the rod with a piece of wood. Is this OK? The > original diagram I was > working with says use wood. Should I get rid of it too and use metal? > > I have my seismometer orientated basically north-south. Is that Ok for > North America or > shoud I point it east-west? > > Should I be getting more earthquakes. Or for where I live, are things > working as best as I can > expect? > > I hope someone out there will be able to help me out and answer my > questions. I have found > in the past that if you are having a problem with a project, most likely > someone out there had > the same problem. Get with a group of people that have the same interests > and you most > likely will be able to get an answer. I am hoping that this will be the > case. > > I am looking forward to my new hobby of seismology. If things work well I > hope to make > another one for the other direction and maybe even a verticle seismometer. > I bought a three > channel amp from Mr. Cochrane. Just in case... :-) > > Thanks for all your time. Kind of a long letter... > > Jeff Zambory > Calgary, Alberta > jzambory@......... > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismometer Questions From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 14:42:39 -0700 Hi Jeff - Some thought about seismic waves which may affect what you do or do not = receive. One very important point is the receiver's sensitivity, and another is = the receiver's pass band, in other words what is the absolute = sensitivity, and what is the frequency range of waves that it can = detect. You said that your instrument was "orientated basically = north-south". In seismology it is important that the horizontal = channels be aligned as near to cardinal directions as possible ie. = north/south or east/west. The problem is how the waves arrive at your = station. You mentioned that you got a good signal on the M 7.2 Baja = California, but very weak signal on the M 7.2 in Vanuatu. Basically there are two types of seismic waves, body and surface. The = body waves travel through the core of the earth, and their arrival times = are usually within 1 or 2 seconds of the travel charts. They have an = amplitude decay rate of 1/ R^2. Surface waves travel in the upper crust = of the earth and are also known as dispersive waves. Different = frequencies of waves travel at different depths. The higher the = frequency, the closer to the surface they are. They have an amplitude = decay rate of 1/ Sqrt R. NOTE R =3D Distance, Km. The frequencies that your receiver can handle is also important. While = surface waves could exist at 10 seconds and higher, they are normally a = much lower frequency. This would put you on the short side of surface = waves. However, Bob McClure, a member of the PSN group has developed = software to increase the period of instruments. Here is the link to = his web site: http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/inversefilter Additional information can be found on the late John Lahr's web site. = Here is the link: http://jclahr.com/science/psn/ When you look at individual seismic waves, they are not uniform in = amplitude as you measure around the compass. Basically you can divide = the waves into 4 quadrants of 90 degrees each. The peak P waves = correspond to null for the S waves. The peak S waves correspond to null = for the P waves. What you see at your station is dependent upon the = focal mechanism of the event and position of the wave as it departs the = event. There are two basic surface waves, Love and Rayleigh. The Love wave is = a transverse wave, vibrating 90 degrees to the direction of travel. Its = wave is known as a SH (S type wave Horizontally) wave. The Rayleigh = wave which is a little slower is a radial wave and its motion is a = combination of a P wave and SV(S type wave Vertically) wave. What your = receiver sees is dependent upon the ray path of the arriving wave at the = station. Here is the link for the USGS and Global CMT focal mechanisms: =20 = http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2010wubj.php Several factors could have contributed to you not receiving a strong = signal on the M 7.2 event Vanuatu. Among them are the basic sensitivity = on your receiver, focal mechanism of event did not transmit strong waves = on the ray path (great circle route to your station), receiver = orientation did not match peak amplitude of surface waves, background = noise at your station. I am certain that there are many more, but these = are some of the more important ones that I can think of now. You mentioned your ability to receive the M 7.2 event from Baja = California. You were almost due north of that event and with a = north/south orientation, you would have received strong Rayleigh waves, = but almost no Love waves. In the M 7.2 event at Vanuatu, you were = aligned more for the Love waves than the Rayleigh waves. Hopefully this will help you understand what you are receiving. Cheers Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ On May 29, 2010, at 10:20 PM, jzambory@......... wrote: __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Will Oil Leak lead to Earthquakes ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 20:16:23 -0700 I understand geothermal projects which pump water into the ground have been able to create earthquakes. And, since this oil leak represents a loss of fluid from the ground it might cause small quakes to occur of a nature not usually thought of as responsible for earth quakes. I have been trying to see here (AZ,USA) if these ground fissures related to ground water removal will show as earthquakes yet over 10 years of watching has showed to me no such thing. The process which causes these fissures must be too slow an energy release to be seen on seismographs. geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Dick" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:00 AM Subject: Re: Will Oil Leak lead to Earthquakes ? > Geoffrey wrote: >> As the oil escapes from underground >> in the gulf off Louisiana >> might it somehow create earthquakes ? >> > It isn't that far off into the Gulf ... unlike the Puerto Rico, Virgin > Islands and Leeward Islands where there has been activity. The Louisiana > area has been very quiet in the last year or more. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismometer Questions From: jzambory@......... Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 22:43:23 -0600 Hi bob, Thanks for your thoughts on my seismometer questions. I am kind of crazy busy now and it is going to take me a few days to get to this. But I wanted to thank you for taking the time to help me out. I will let you know how things go. I do want to get my seismometer working as best as it can. Jeff On 2 Jun 2010 at 14:42, Bob Hancock wrote: > Hi Jeff - > > Some thought about seismic waves which may affect what you do or do not receive. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismometer Questions From: jzambory@......... Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 22:43:23 -0600 Hi Jim, Thanks for your e-mail. I really appriciate the time you took to answer my questions for help. I am crazy busy for a few days and it will take me a while to get back to my sesimometer. But I do want to get it working as best as it can, so I will get back to it. I will let you know how I am making out. But just wanted to thank you for you time. Jeff On 2 Jun 2010 at 17:17, Jim and Connie Lehman wrote: > Jeff--greetings from Virginia: > > I looked at your pics on the site, and will make the following suggestions-- > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Will Oil Leak lead to Earthquakes ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 06:48:33 -0700 The only worry in Apache Junction is the HEAT and little else. It is the heat here most likely to kill one should energy resources be lost to terrorists or whatever. If electrical services are lost You will most likely see a lot of old and poor die from the heat in the summer which is typically 140F on the ground and 105F in the air. Dry makes little difference. It only takes about 111F to denature molecules necessary for life within the human brain. Denature means to break apart like in Denatured alcohol which is more poisonous than grain alcohol to drink. I guess molecules break apart which destroy the electrical properties of the brain. Earthquakes are of little worry here yet watching them make a great way to kill time without causing troubles to anyone. Sorry if I gave you the idea I worry about anything at all since most of my meaningful life is over and gone. It was robbed from me by a people I am unable to understand. I worry most about how to pass time without seeing a cop or a jarhead with a shotgun pointing in my face. geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Lindgren" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 10:23 AM Subject: RE: Will Oil Leak lead to Earthquakes ? > Geoffrey, > To the earth, the leak is no different than pumping oil from the Gulf. I > believe there are 36,000 wells in the Gulf. I'm not sure if all are pumping > at this time. Don't worry about quakes. > Gary > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of Geoffrey > Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 9:03 AM > To: PSN-LIST > Subject: Will Oil Leak lead to Earthquakes ? > > As the oil escapes from underground > in the gulf off Louisiana > might it somehow create earthquakes ? > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismometer Questions From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 22:53:34 EDT In a message dated 30/05/2010, jzambory@......... writes: I am new to this hobby of seismology. I have photos of everything I will refer to at: _www.flickr.com/photos/darksky123/_ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/darksky123/) I changed a few things. I thought it would be very difficult for me to made a perfect knife edge for the pivot point so I epoxyed a ball bearing to the end of my steel rod. I sanded smooth the surface that it rests on, (not sure what it is called). Seems to work? Hi Jeff, Good choice. Knife edges and point in a cup 'bearings' are almost guaranteed to fail, often sooner than later. They are both seriously inadequate. You need Stainless Steel or Tungsten Carbide ball bearings and a stainless steel or carbide counterface. See _www.smallparts.com_ (http://www.smallparts.com/) I bought a large SS scalpel blade and cut a square from it. Ordinary steel bearings corrode quite quickly - don't use them. Two part acrylic glue is much better than epoxy, which dries brittle and does not give it's best performance on polished surfaces. See _http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg_ (http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg) I checked the maximum period and was able to get 60 seconds quite OK, so I know that this construction works well. I normally set the seismometer to operate at 20 to 25 seconds with the 22" arm. Note that the mass is fitted to the end of the arm to get the maximum period. For my pickup magnet, I hung it down off the rod. I could not get it to hang properly when I tried it on the side of the rod. Made things twist. Do NOT mount the magnet on the arm. It gives noisy results sensing changes in the earth's magnetic field and surge currents in the house wiring. Put the coil on the arm. See _http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html_ (http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html) for the damping and sensor magnet block designs. You are far better off with a rectangular coil and NdFeB rectangular magnets. They are cheaper and more powerful than Alnico magnets. What damping is your arm it set to? Can you set it to 0.7 critical quite easily? If you displace the mass 10mm and release it, it should cross over the balance position by 0.5 mm. This is not difficult to measure with a ruler and a magnifying glass. You need a V suspension connected to a crossbar on the arm to prevent it from rotating about it's axis due to the offset drag from the damping plate. I use 30 lb 7 core nylon coated SS fishing trace with crimped loop ends. If you don't do this, you get odd looking signals produced by the coil sensing the rotation of the arm as well as the seismic displacement. I got a bolt for the thing that the wire attaches to on the top piece. To vary the period of the arm, I just adjusted the length of the bolt. I think that this may be your problem when trying to get a long period. What thickness of wire are you using? About 10 to 12 thou diameter wire works well. See _http://www.daddario.com_ (http://www.daddario.com/) Ask for wire for a mandolin. The suspension needs to be rigid with sharp edges on the clamp. I suggest that you use a 3/8" bolt. File off the thread for about 1/2" at the end. Then file off 1/3 the thickness of the bolt on the other side. Drill an 1/8" hole and use an 1/8" bolt and two washers to firmly clamp the suspension wire. So my question. I read that I should be able to detect magnitude 6 and greater for earthquake around the world. M 6.5 world wide. What really prompted me to write was not detecting the Vanuatu 7.2 quake from last week. I got a small squiggle, but not enough to put WinSDR into alarm and the time was a couple of minutes early from when the waves should have arrived according to the USGS. Compared to what I got with the Baja quake, I thought I should have gotten something. I get nothing. I am hoping the people will be able to point out improvements or mistakes that I am making. For my pick up coil, I originally had a coil from a relay. It was about an inch in diameter. It seemed to work for starting out. That was the pickup coil I was using when I got the Baja quake. I knew I had to get one with more turns of wire and a higher resistance, that one was only about 300 ohms. A local electronics shop had some 40AWG magnet wire, a 1/4 pound roll. I bought it and made a thing to roll it onto. 38 or 36 AWG wire is easier to handle. Make the rectangular former out of glass circuit board. Not really feeling like playing with that tiny wire again, I looked through an electronics supply catalogue and found a 110Vac power relay that stated a coil resistance of 11K ohms. Aim for a coil resistance of less than 500 Ohms. 10 k Ohms is far too high and it will be noisy. The question I have about it is, does size matter? The coil itself is only about 1/2' in diameter. I look at other amateur seismometers that I can find photos for and the coils are a lot larger. Should I get some larger gauge wire (36AWG?) and make a new coil? Or is the coil I have now OK? No. This coil is far too small to allow the mass to drift by up to +/-10mm. Size matters a lot. I believe the seismometer works. When I walk up to it, WinSDR shows movement and it usually goes into alarm unless I walk up very slowly. You should be able to see the ~6 second ocean microseisms at 100 to 200 counts. The period of my system is about ten seconds. That is about as long as I am able to get it. I can't seem to get the 14+ I read about for some systems. Should I fight with it to get a longer period, or is ten seconds long enough? 10 seconds is NOT long enough. You need 15 to 25 seconds. Is a ball bearing OK for a pivot point? Yes, provided that it is Stainless Steel and over 1/4" diameter. Mount the ball on the FRAME and the counterface on the end of the ARM - NOT the other way around! I sent a letter and photos to Mr. Cochrane and he told me to get rid of the wood I was using on my system. I had made a mount for the pick up coil magnet out of wood at first (it is now metal). It is easier for me to work with wood than metal. I have the copper plate for my dampening attached to the rod with a piece of wood. Is this OK? The original diagram I was working with says use wood. Should I get rid of it too and use metal? Wood tends to warp and the dimensions change with moisture levels. It needs to be thoroughly varnished to be reasonably stable - particularly the end grain. I have my seismometer orientated basically north-south. Is that OK for North America or should I point it east-west? Should be OK with the arm N/S Should I be getting more earthquakes?. Or for where I live, are things working as best as I can expect? Depends on where you are located. In a low seismic signal region, I get one or two teleseismic quakes per week as well as regional quakes. Check the drumplots daily? I am looking forward to my new hobby of seismology. If things work well I hope to make another one for the other direction and maybe even a vertical seismometer. I bought a three channel amp from Mr. Cochrane. Just in case... :-) Next time I suggest that you make a T frame out of 3" x 1" Aluminum U channel with 6" triangular x 1/8" thick corner plates. Use all Stainless Steel bolts, nuts, washers and fittings. I buy mine from a boat chandler. This construction is not only easier but much better. It allows you to set up all the working parts and clearances in sequence and you just tilt the whole frame to set the period. What metal is used for your arm? It should not be heavy in comparison to the mass. What mass do you use and how is it secured? Check _http://www.mutr.co.uk/images/Seismometer.pdf?osCsid=8cl12vb4vnhq2l65723jqa9em6_ (http://www.mutr.co.uk/images/Seismometer.pdf?osCsid=8cl12vb4vnhq2l65723jqa9em6) for the SEPUK seismometer manual. We have over 400 of these now operating in the UK and they seem to give excellent results with AmaSeis. Also check _http://www.bgs.ac.uk/schoolseismology/_ (http://www.bgs.ac.uk/schoolseismology/) for the school seismology project. Thanks for all your time. Kind of a long letter... Jeff Zambory Let me know if you need more help? Chris Chapman
 =20
In a message dated 30/05/2010, jzambory@......... writes:
I am new=20 to this hobby of seismology. I have photos of everything I will refer to= =20 at:
www.flick= r.com/photos/darksky123/

I=20 changed a few things. I thought it would be very difficult for me to mad= e a=20 perfect knife edge
for the pivot point so I epoxyed a ball bearing= to the=20 end of my steel rod. I sanded smooth the
surface that it rests on,= (not=20 sure what it is called). Seems to work?
Hi Jeff,
 
    Good choice. Knife edges and point in a cup= =20 'bearings' are almost guaranteed to fail, often sooner than later. They ar= e both=20 seriously inadequate.
 
    You need Stainless Steel or Tungsten Carbide= ball=20 bearings and a stainless steel or carbide counterface. See www.smallparts.com I bought a large=20 SS scalpel blade and cut a square from it. Ordinary steel bearings corrode= quite=20 quickly - don't use them. Two part acrylic glue is much better than= epoxy,=20 which dries brittle and does not give it's best performance on polished=20 surfaces.
    See http://www.jclahr.com/sci= ence/psn/chapman/2008%20lehman/lehman_prototype.jpg I=20 checked the maximum period and was able to get 60 seconds quite OK, so I= know=20 that this construction works well. I normally set the seismometer to opera= te at=20 20 to 25 seconds with the 22" arm. Note that the mass is fitted to th= e end=20 of the arm to get the maximum period.
For my=20 pickup magnet, I hung it down off the rod. I could not get it to hang pr= operly=20 when I
tried it on the side of the rod. Made things twist.=20
    Do NOT mount the magnet on the arm. It gives= noisy=20 results sensing changes in the earth's magnetic field and surge curre= nts in=20 the house wiring. Put the coil on the arm.
    See http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/= lehman/index.html for=20 the damping and sensor magnet block designs.
    You are far better off with a rectangular coi= l and=20 NdFeB rectangular magnets. They are cheaper and more powerful than Alnico= =20 magnets.
    What damping is your arm it set to? Can= you=20 set it to 0.7 critical quite easily? If you displace the mass 10mm and rel= ease=20 it, it should cross over the balance position by 0.5 mm. This is not diffi= cult=20 to measure with a ruler and a magnifying glass.
    You need a V suspension connected to a crossb= ar on=20 the arm to prevent it from rotating about it's axis due to the offset drag= from=20 the damping plate. I use 30 lb 7 core nylon coated SS fishing trace with= crimped=20 loop ends. If you don't do this, you get odd looking signals produced by= the=20 coil sensing the rotation of the arm as well as the=20 seismic displacement. 
I got a=20 bolt for the thing that the wire attaches to on the top piece. To vary= the=20 period of the
arm, I just adjusted the length of the=20 bolt.
    I think that this may be your problem when tr= ying=20 to get a long period. What thickness of wire are you using? About 10 to 12= thou=20 diameter wire works well. See http:/= /www.daddario.com Ask for wire for a=20 mandolin. The suspension needs to be rigid with sharp edges on the cl= amp. I=20 suggest that you use a 3/8" bolt. File off the thread for about 1/2" at th= e end.=20 Then file off 1/3 the thickness of the bolt on the other side. Drill an 1/= 8"=20 hole and use an 1/8" bolt and two washers to firmly clamp the suspens= ion=20 wire. 
So my question. I read that I should be able to detect magnitude 6=20 and greater for earthquake
around the world.
    M 6.5 world wide. 
 What really prompted me to write was= not detecting the=20 Vanuatu 7.2 quake from last week. I got a
small squiggle, but not en= ough=20 to put WinSDR into alarm and the time was a couple of
minutes early= from=20 when the waves should have arrived according to the USGS. Compared
t= o what=20 I got with the Baja quake, I thought I should have gotten something. I= get=20 nothing. I am hoping the people will be able to point out improveme= nts or=20 mistakes that I am making.

For my pick up coil, I originally had= a coil=20 from a relay. It was about an inch in diameter. It
seemed to work fo= r=20 starting out. That was the pickup coil I was using when I got the Baja= =20
quake. I knew I had to get one with more turns of wire and a higher= =20 resistance, that one was
only about 300 ohms. A local electronics sh= op had=20 some 40AWG magnet wire, a 1/4 pound
roll. I bought it and made a thi= ng to=20 roll it onto.
    38 or 36 AWG wire is easier to handle. Make= the=20 rectangular former out of glass circuit board.
&nb= sp;Not really feeling like playing with that tiny wire again, I=20 looked through an electronics supply catalogue and found a 110Vac power= relay=20 that stated a coil resistance of 11K=20 ohms.
    Aim for a coil resistance of less than 500 Oh= ms. 10=20 k Ohms is far too high and it will be noisy.
The=20 question I have about it is, does size matter? The coil itself is
on= ly=20 about 1/2' in diameter. I look at other amateur seismometers that I can= find=20 photos for
and the coils are a lot larger. Should I get some larger= gauge=20 wire (36AWG?) and make a
new coil? Or is the coil I have now=20 OK?
    No. This coil is far too small to allow the= mass to=20 drift by up to +/-10mm.
    Size matters a lot.
I=20 believe the seismometer works. When I walk up to it, WinSDR shows moveme= nt and=20 it
usually goes into alarm unless I walk up very slowly.
    You should be able to see the ~6 second= ocean=20 microseisms at 100 to 200 counts.
The=20 period of my system is about ten seconds. That is about as long as I am= able=20 to get it. I
can't seem to get the 14+ I read about for some systems= ..=20 Should I fight with it to get a longer
period, or is ten seconds lon= g=20 enough?
    10 seconds is NOT long enough. You need 15 to= =20 25 seconds.
Is a=20 ball bearing OK for a pivot point?
    Yes, provided that it is Stainless Steel= and=20 over 1/4" diameter. Mount the ball on the FRAME and the counterface on the= end=20 of the ARM - NOT the other way around!
I sent a=20 letter and photos to Mr. Cochrane and he told me to get rid of the wood= I was=20 using
on my system. I had made a mount for the pick up coil magnet= out of=20 wood at first (it is now
metal). It is easier for me to work with wo= od=20 than metal. I have the copper plate for my
dampening attached to the= rod=20 with a piece of wood. Is this OK? The original diagram I was
working= with=20 says use wood. Should I get rid of it too and use=20 metal?
    Wood tends to warp and the dimensions change= with=20 moisture levels. It needs to be thoroughly varnished to be reasonably stab= le -=20 particularly the end grain.
I have my seismometer orientated basically north-south. Is that OK=20 for North America or
should I point it east-west?
    Should be OK with the arm N/S
Should I=20 be getting more earthquakes?. Or for where I live, are things working as= best=20 as I can
expect?
    Depends on where you are located. In a low se= ismic=20 signal region, I get one or two teleseismic quakes per week as well= as=20 regional quakes. Check the drumplots daily?
I am=20 looking forward to my new hobby of seismology. If things work well I hop= e to=20 make
another one for the other direction and maybe even a vertical= =20 seismometer. I bought a three
channel amp from Mr. Cochrane. Just in= =20 case... :-)
    Next time I suggest that you make a T fr= ame=20 out of 3" x 1" Aluminum U channel with 6" triangular x 1/8" thick corner= plates.=20 Use all Stainless Steel bolts, nuts, washers and fittings. I buy mine= from=20 a boat chandler. This construction is not only easier but much better. It= allows=20 you to set up all the working parts and clearances in sequence and you jus= t tilt=20 the whole frame to set the period.
 
    What metal is used for your arm? It should no= t be=20 heavy in comparison to the mass. What mass do you use and how is it secure= d?=20
 
    Check http://www.mutr.co.= uk/images/Seismometer.pdf?osCsid=3D8cl12vb4vnhq2l65723jqa9em6 for= =20 the SEPUK seismometer manual. We have over 400 of these now operating in= the UK=20 and they seem to give excellent results with AmaSeis. Also check http://www.bgs.ac.uk/schoolsei= smology/ for=20 the school seismology project.
Thanks=20 for all your time. Kind of a long letter...
Jeff=20 Zambory
    Let me know if you need more help?
 
<= FONT style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=3D#000000 size=3D2 fac= e=3DArial>    Chris Chapman
 
<= /DIV> Subject: Rare Earth Magnets From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 05:34:55 -0700 Question for PSN members: In the past I have noticed some of these rare earth magnets are chrome plated and some are not. ALSO, They seem terribly sensitive to corrosion. What type of rare earth magnets will stand up indefinitely ( well 20 years ) to everyday life environment without peeling chrome plate or rusted or corroded looking magnets ? Possibly they need a varnish or ?? Thanks ahead of time, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Rare Earth Magnets From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 09:35:10 EDT In a message dated 04/06/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes: In the past I have noticed some of these rare earth magnets are chrome plated and some are not. ALSO, They seem terribly sensitive to corrosion. Hi There, Sm/Co magnets are relatively expensive but do not corrode at all easily. NdFeB magnets are quite cheap and are usually protected by several layers of Nickel plate. Some are Epoxy coated. It is VERY IMPORTANT when handling these magnets that the surface plating is NOT scratched or damaged. If you are mounting them permanently in a seismometer, I suggest that you mount them in liquid yacht varnish on the baseplate and coat them with two more layers of varnish. Bare NdFeB corrodes quite quickly in damp air. Regards, Chris Chapman
In a message dated 04/06/2010, gmvoeth@........... writes:
In the=20 past I have noticed some of these rare earth magnets are chrome platedand=20 some are not.
ALSO,
They seem terribly sensitive to=20 corrosion.
Hi There,
 
    Sm/Co magnets are relatively expensive but do= not=20 corrode at all easily.
 
    NdFeB magnets are quite cheap and are usually= =20 protected by several layers of Nickel plate. Some are Epoxy coated. It is= VERY=20 IMPORTANT when handling these magnets that the surface plating is NOT scra= tched=20 or damaged. If you are mounting them permanently in a seismometer, I sugge= st=20 that you mount them in liquid yacht varnish on the baseplate and coat them= with=20 two more layers of varnish. Bare NdFeB corrodes quite quickly in damp= =20 air.
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman
Subject: Re: Seismometer Questions From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2010 14:32:41 -0500 > Chris Chapman is giving you the BEST advice. He helped me get my > units operating. He knows what has to be done. Bob's comments will > help you understand why what Chris is saying is the thing to do. TOM > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: BEARINGS From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 08:50:57 -0700 Is there some reason no one will use a short piece of wire to be the bearing in a Lehman Seismometer ? Like, it could be far better than any two seperate pieces of metal touching each other ? Thanks ahead of time geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: BEARINGS From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 09:56:52 +1000 Hi Geoff it is used in the WWSS network (worldwide standard seismic) Sprengnether Long Period seismometer. I had one of these at home for many years. The idea works very well. cheers Dave N Sydney At 08:50 AM 6/5/2010 -0700, you wrote: >Is there some reason no one will use a short >piece of wire to be the bearing in a Lehman Seismometer ? >Like, it could be far better than any two seperate pieces >of metal touching each other ? >Thanks ahead of time >geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: BEARINGS From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 10:04:35 +1000 Have a look here www.sydneystormcity.com/Sprengnether-LP-Seismometer.gif and you will see the wire link labelled 36 in the top right circle cheers Dave __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: BEARINGS From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2010 20:31:12 -0400 Hi Goeff, Yes, that's a good idea. There is no doubt that a flexible thin piece of metal makes a far better pivot than any two pieces in contact. Virtually all commercial instruments use thin foil flexures in their pivots. A flat foil strip might be better than a wire. Assuming an operating stress of 50,000 psi, a wire would have to have a diameter of about 0.016" in order to support a 10 lb force. A thin flexure of the same material 0.001" thick and 0.2" wide would support the same 10 lb, and all other things being equal I calculate that it would be about 191 times more "flexible" than the wire. In a Lehman it's a little tricky to make a pivot that way, because you want the pivot force to always be pulling on the wire or foil, never pushing, but I have seen designs that could do that. Regards, Brett At 11:50 AM 6/5/2010, you wrote: >Is there some reason no one will use a short >piece of wire to be the bearing in a Lehman Seismometer ? > >Like, it could be far better than any two seperate pieces >of metal touching each other ? > >Thanks ahead of time >geoff > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: BEARINGS From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 02:00:17 +0000 Hi, Years back some of last gardengate seismographs were made using a wire under tension for the pivot, long periods were quite easy. I am looking to see if I can find some pictures. Angel On Sat, 2010-06-05 at 08:50 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > Is there some reason no one will use a short > piece of wire to be the bearing in a Lehman Seismometer ? > > Like, it could be far better than any two seperate pieces > of metal touching each other ? > > Thanks ahead of time > geoff > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Wire Strength From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2010 23:30:32 -0700 Does anyone understand wire strength ? I will look at this way. HY80 steel has the ability to stand up to 80,000 lb/in^2 so you just translate say the area of a given steel wire what it would be if whatever weight was on that area as translated to the area of the wire guage then if it is like 1/2 the yield strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok ?? 5 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to Diameter => 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000)) Where HY80 type steel is the wire steel ? Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you need an AWG table) If it were piano wire it might be HY160 or something better than plain steel ? IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire or something that will not corrode/rust ? Does any of that sound right ? I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman :-) Thanks ahead of time, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 17:29:31 +1000 Yup there is go to any boating accessories shop they will have a wide range of non-rusting stainless steel fittings and wire :) Dave N Sydney At 11:30 PM 6/5/2010 -0700, you wrote: >IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire >or something that will not corrode/rust ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: "Daryl P. Dacko" mycrump@........ Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 06:16:45 -0400 Geoffrey wrote: > If it were piano wire it might be HY160 > or something better than plain steel ? > > IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire > or something that will not corrode/rust ? I know a lot of folks use musical instrument wire - it's plated so it won't rust and comes in many guages. Daryl __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 07:03:21 -0400 Geoff, Try http://www.smallparts.com/ and search for "17-7 PH Spring Wire" As sold, in "Condition C" it has a yield strength of over 190,000 psi and if you want to bake it for an hour at 900 F you can raise that to 260,000, and it will possibly get even higher than that. The 17-7 material we use for leaf springs gets a yield strength close to 300,000 psi after baking. The material property you want to be looking at is yield strength. As defined by AK Steel corp. http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/precipitation/17-7_PH_Data_Sheet.pdf it is the stress level at which the material will permanently stretch by 0.2%. You could stress a wire to half that value reasonably safely. In some places yield stess is defined at 2% or even 5% permanent stretch, so you should be aware of which one is being used. In any case, working at 40-50% of yield is likely to be OK. Brett At 02:30 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >Does anyone understand wire strength ? > >I will look at this way. > >HY80 steel has the ability to stand up to >80,000 lb/in^2 so you just translate >say the area of a given steel wire >what it would be if whatever weight >was on that area as translated to >the area of the wire guage then if it is >like 1/2 the yield strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok ?? > >5 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to >Diameter => 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000)) >Where HY80 type steel is the wire steel ? >Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you need an AWG table) > >If it were piano wire it might be HY160 >or something better than plain steel ? > >IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire >or something that will not corrode/rust ? > >Does any of that sound right ? > >I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman :-) > >Thanks ahead of time, >geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 11:49:26 +0000 How would the "wire" actually be setup or configured physically in the "standard" Lehman. Ed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Wire Strength > Geoff, > > Try http://www.smallparts.com/ and search for "17-7 PH Spring Wire" > > As sold, in "Condition C" it has a yield strength of over 190,000 psi > and if you want to bake it for an hour at 900 F you can raise that to > 260,000, and it will possibly get even higher than that. The 17-7 > material we use for leaf springs gets a yield strength close to > 300,000 psi after baking. > > The material property you want to be looking at is yield > strength. As defined by AK Steel > corp. > http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/precipitation/17-7_PH_Data_Sheet.pdf > it is the stress level at which the material will permanently stretch > by 0.2%. You could stress a wire to half that value reasonably safely. > In some places yield stess is defined at 2% or even 5% permanent > stretch, so you should be aware of which one is being used. In any > case, working at 40-50% of yield is likely to be OK. > > Brett > > > At 02:30 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >>Does anyone understand wire strength ? >> >>I will look at this way. >> >>HY80 steel has the ability to stand up to >>80,000 lb/in^2 so you just translate >>say the area of a given steel wire >>what it would be if whatever weight >>was on that area as translated to >>the area of the wire guage then if it is >>like 1/2 the yield strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok ?? >> >>5 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to >>Diameter => 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000)) >>Where HY80 type steel is the wire steel ? >>Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you need an AWG table) >> >>If it were piano wire it might be HY160 >>or something better than plain steel ? >> >>IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire >>or something that will not corrode/rust ? >> >>Does any of that sound right ? >> >>I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman :-) >> >>Thanks ahead of time, >>geoff > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2920 - Release Date: 06/05/10 18:25:00 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: BEARINGS From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 13:14:27 -0700 Dave, That bearing is quite clever to create tension out of a compression need. Thank you for the reference. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Dave Nelson Sent: Saturday, June 05, 2010 5:05 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: BEARINGS Have a look here www.sydneystormcity.com/Sprengnether-LP-Seismometer.gif and you will see the wire link labelled 36 in the top right circle cheers Dave __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: BEARINGS From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 20:31:06 +0000 Hi all, I made a five minute version of the wire under tension boom hinge I used to use. just to save 1000 words. I hope you can see it here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/50887141@N04/4676233938/ Angel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: BEARINGS From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 20:54:33 +0000 Hi, Just in case that that flicker thing did not work, Brett was kind enough to place it on his web site. http://bnordgren.org/seismo/fly_swatter_boom.JPG All questions welcome. Angel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: BEARINGS From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 21:01:00 +0000 Yes Angel I can see what you mean. The concept was a little hard to visualize without your picture. Thanks, Ed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 8:31 PM Subject: RE: BEARINGS > Hi all, > > I made a five minute version of the wire under tension boom hinge I used > to use. just to save 1000 words. > > I hope you can see it here: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/50887141@N04/4676233938/ > > Angel > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2921 - Release Date: 06/06/10 06:25:00 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 17:07:30 -0400 Ed, Rather than "wire" I'd probably recommend a thin foil flexure for the boom pivot. Mauro Mariotti sketched out a garden-gate design that works on that principle, though I think he uses thin razor blade material (much too thick in my opinion) as the flexure. But you can see the idea. http://mariottim.interfree.it/doc02hl_e.htm To make that work in a Lehman, the boom has to somehow fork around the main support column so that the flexure can be on the back side, and the column has to be tilted such that the lower flexure pivot is almost directly below the wire attachment point at the top. It would be a little harder to make, but should perform very well. Angel's picture gives a good idea of how that works, though he is, in fact, using a "wire". Brett At 07:49 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >How would the "wire" actually be setup or configured physically in >the "standard" Lehman. Ed. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 17:16:55 -0400 Ed, In looking more closely at Mauro's Lehman design, I see that he uses a simpler design that puts the flexure in compression. That works, too, but the flexure needs to be thicker as he has done. The garden gate design was more like what I was thinking. Brett At 07:49 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >How would the "wire" actually be setup or configured physically in >the "standard" Lehman. Ed. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: BEARINGS From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 14:39:54 -0700 Im not trying to be a smartass here but; "YOU are smart Jordie" "My ship wont go." "Can you make my ship go Jordie ?" Jolly Good Show, that was exactly what i meant. The bearing I mean. :-) geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "sismos" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 1:54 PM Subject: RE: BEARINGS > Hi, > > Just in case that that flicker thing did not work, Brett was kind enough > to place it on his web site. > > http://bnordgren.org/seismo/fly_swatter_boom.JPG > > All questions welcome. > > Angel > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 14:48:49 -0700 Yes, Foil might be good as well but I think A triangular low mass frame with two such wire bearings might be better since the wire would be easier to get than the foil. There is such low resistive forces with the wire idea a frame would be ideal for limiting motions where not wanted. A truly triangular garden gate like appearance. Considerable linear forces can be realized when you are trying to extend the free period so a lager wire than you might imagine will be necessary. :=) geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 2:16 PM Subject: Re: Wire Strength > Ed, > > In looking more closely at Mauro's Lehman design, I see that he uses > a simpler design that puts the flexure in compression. That works, > too, but the flexure needs to be thicker as he has done. The garden > gate design was more like what I was thinking. > > Brett > > > At 07:49 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >>How would the "wire" actually be setup or configured physically in >>the "standard" Lehman. Ed. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 15:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Hi Ed Here is one possibility shown on my website. It is taken from the Sprengnet= her=A0 design. http://www.seismicvault.com/images/HINGE_12H.jpg It's a little hard to see = but the wire is between the two small aluminum blocks. There are two scribe= points to provide some additional vertical adjustment. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Sun, 6/6/10, Edward Ianni wrote: From: Edward Ianni Subject: Re: Wire Strength To: psn-l@.............. Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:49 AM How would the "wire" actually be setup or configured physically in the=20 "standard" Lehman.=A0=A0=A0Ed. -----=0A Original Message -----=20 From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Wire Strength > Geoff, > > Try=A0 =A0 http://www.smallparts.com/=A0=A0=A0and search for "17-7 PH Spr= ing Wire" > > As sold, in "Condition C" it has a yield strength of over 190,000 psi > and if you want to bake it for an hour at 900 F you can raise that to > 260,000, and it will possibly get even higher than that.=A0 The 17-7 > material we use for leaf springs gets a yield strength close to > 300,000 psi after baking. > > The material property you want to be=0A looking at is yield > strength.=A0 As defined by AK Steel > corp. > http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/precipitation/17-7_= PH_Data_Sheet.pdf > it is the stress level at which the material will permanently stretch > by 0.2%.=A0 You could stress a wire to half that value reasonably safely. > In some places yield stess is defined at 2% or even 5% permanent > stretch, so you should be aware of which one is being used.=A0 In any > case, working at 40-50% of yield is likely to be OK. > > Brett > > > At 02:30 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >>Does anyone understand wire strength ? >> >>I will look at this way. >> >>HY80 steel has the ability to stand up to >>80,000 lb/in^2 so you just=0A translate >>say the area of a given steel wire >>what it would be if whatever weight >>was on that area as translated to >>the area of the wire guage then if it is >>like 1/2 the yield strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok ?? >> >>5 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to >>Diameter =3D> 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000)) >>Where HY80 type steel is the wire steel ? >>Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you need an AWG table) >> >>If it were piano wire it might be HY160 >>or something better than plain steel ? >> >>IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire >>or something that will not corrode/rust ? >> >>Does any of that sound right ? >> >>I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman :-) >> >>Thanks ahead of time, >>geoff > > >=0A __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2920 - Release Date: 06/05/10=20 18:25:00 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
Hi Ed
Here is on= e possibility shown on my website. It is taken from the Sprengnether  = design.
http://www.seismicvault.com/images/HINGE_12= H.jpg It's a little hard to see but the wire is between the two small a= luminum blocks. There are two scribe points to provide some additional vert= ical adjustment.

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com
--- On Sun, 6/6/10, Edward Ianni <edwianni1@...........> wrote:

From: Edward Ianni <edwian= ni1@...........>
Subject: Re: Wire Strength
To: psn-l@............. om
Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:49 AM

How would th= e "wire" actually be setup or configured physically in the
"standard" L= ehman.   Ed.


-----=0A Original Message -----
= From: "Brett Nordgren" <brett3nt@.............&g= t;
To: <psn-l@..............>
Sent: Sun= day, June 06, 2010 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Wire Strength


> G= eoff,
>
> Try    http://www.smallparts.com/ &= nbsp; and search for "17-7 PH Spring Wire"
>
> As sold, in= "Condition C" it has a yield strength of over 190,000 psi
> and if y= ou want to bake it for an hour at 900 F you can raise that to
> 260,0= 00, and it will possibly get even higher than that.  The 17-7
> = material we use for leaf springs gets a yield strength close to
> 300= ,000 psi after baking.
>
> The material property you want to be= =0A looking at is yield
> strength.  As defined by AK Steel
&= gt; corp.
> http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/precipitation/1= 7-7_PH_Data_Sheet.pdf
> it is the stress level at which the mater= ial will permanently stretch
> by 0.2%.  You could stress a wire= to half that value reasonably safely.
> In some places yield stess i= s defined at 2% or even 5% permanent
> stretch, so you should be awar= e of which one is being used.  In any
> case, working at 40-50% = of yield is likely to be OK.
>
> Brett
>
>
> = At 02:30 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote:
>>Does anyone understand wire str= ength ?
>>
>>I will look at this way.
>>
>= >HY80 steel has the ability to stand up to
>>80,000 lb/in^2 so you just=0A translate
>>say the area of a given steel wire
>= ;>what it would be if whatever weight
>>was on that area as tra= nslated to
>>the area of the wire guage then if it is
>>l= ike 1/2 the yield strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok ??
>>>>5 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to
>>Diameter =3D>= ; 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000))
>>Where HY80 type steel is the wire s= teel ?
>>Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you need an AWG table)<= br>>>
>>If it were piano wire it might be HY160
>>o= r something better than plain steel ?
>>
>>IS there such = a thing as stainless steel wire
>>or something that will not corro= de/rust ?
>>
>>Does any of that sound right ?
>>=
>>I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman :-)
>>
>>= ;Thanks ahead of time,
>>geoff
>
>
>=0A ________= __________________________________________________
>
> Public S= eismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
>
> To leave this list emai= l PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
> the bod= y of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
> See htt= p://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.


-= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by = AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2920 - Rele= ase Date: 06/05/10
18:25:00

____________________________________= ______________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html= for more information.
Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 16:22:51 -0700 Where the heck do you guys get your stuff ? I see like 1/4 inch thick Aluminum bent professionally on a break of some kind which is beyond the capability of any amateur known to myself ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Lotz" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 3:57 PM Subject: Re: Wire Strength Hi Ed Here is one possibility shown on my website. It is taken from the Sprengnether design. http://www.seismicvault.com/images/HINGE_12H.jpg It's a little hard to see but the wire is between the two small aluminum blocks. There are two scribe points to provide some additional vertical adjustment. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Sun, 6/6/10, Edward Ianni wrote: From: Edward Ianni Subject: Re: Wire Strength To: psn-l@.............. Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:49 AM How would the "wire" actually be setup or configured physically in the "standard" Lehman. Ed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Wire Strength > Geoff, > > Try http://www.smallparts.com/ and search for "17-7 PH Spring Wire" > > As sold, in "Condition C" it has a yield strength of over 190,000 psi > and if you want to bake it for an hour at 900 F you can raise that to > 260,000, and it will possibly get even higher than that. The 17-7 > material we use for leaf springs gets a yield strength close to > 300,000 psi after baking. > > The material property you want to be looking at is yield > strength. As defined by AK Steel > corp. > http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/precipitation/17-7_PH_Data_Sheet.pdf > it is the stress level at which the material will permanently stretch > by 0.2%. You could stress a wire to half that value reasonably safely. > In some places yield stess is defined at 2% or even 5% permanent > stretch, so you should be aware of which one is being used. In any > case, working at 40-50% of yield is likely to be OK. > > Brett > > > At 02:30 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >>Does anyone understand wire strength ? >> >>I will look at this way. >> >>HY80 steel has the ability to stand up to >>80,000 lb/in^2 so you just translate >>say the area of a given steel wire >>what it would be if whatever weight >>was on that area as translated to >>the area of the wire guage then if it is >>like 1/2 the yield strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok ?? >> >>5 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to >>Diameter => 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000)) >>Where HY80 type steel is the wire steel ? >>Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you need an AWG table) >> >>If it were piano wire it might be HY160 >>or something better than plain steel ? >> >>IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire >>or something that will not corrode/rust ? >> >>Does any of that sound right ? >> >>I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman :-) >> >>Thanks ahead of time, >>geoff > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2920 - Release Date: 06/05/10 18:25:00 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Sun, 06 Jun 2010 23:26:11 +0000 Thanks for all the sites, pictures and info, GUYS. If I get some time I = may try modifying my Lehman with the wire or flexure hinge replacement = (as opposed to the current steel ball bearing). There is so much good = info coming from this group (in the past, Roger Sparks was a tremendous = help to me concerning the building of his "C Spring" seismometer). = http://www.fairpoint.net/~sparksite/CSpring%20Seismometer.html=20 If I start this project i'm sure I will be needing your help too. = Thanks again, Ed. =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Barry Lotz=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 10:57 PM Subject: Re: Wire Strength Hi Ed Here is one possibility shown on my website. It is taken from = the Sprengnether design. http://www.seismicvault.com/images/HINGE_12H.jpg It's a little = hard to see but the wire is between the two small aluminum blocks. There = are two scribe points to provide some additional vertical adjustment. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Sun, 6/6/10, Edward Ianni wrote: From: Edward Ianni Subject: Re: Wire Strength To: psn-l@.............. Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:49 AM How would the "wire" actually be setup or configured = physically in the=20 "standard" Lehman. Ed. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Wire Strength > Geoff, > > Try http://www.smallparts.com/ and search for "17-7 PH = Spring Wire" > > As sold, in "Condition C" it has a yield strength of over = 190,000 psi > and if you want to bake it for an hour at 900 F you can = raise that to > 260,000, and it will possibly get even higher than that. = The 17-7 > material we use for leaf springs gets a yield strength close = to > 300,000 psi after baking. > > The material property you want to be looking at is yield > strength. As defined by AK Steel > corp. > = http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/precipitation/17-7_= PH_Data_Sheet.pdf > it is the stress level at which the material will = permanently stretch > by 0.2%. You could stress a wire to half that value = reasonably safely. > In some places yield stess is defined at 2% or even 5% = permanent > stretch, so you should be aware of which one is being used. = In any > case, working at 40-50% of yield is likely to be OK. > > Brett > > > At 02:30 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >>Does anyone understand wire strength ? >> >>I will look at this way. >> >>HY80 steel has the ability to stand up to >>80,000 lb/in^2 so you just translate >>say the area of a given steel wire >>what it would be if whatever weight >>was on that area as translated to >>the area of the wire guage then if it is >>like 1/2 the yield strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok = ?? >> >>5 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to >>Diameter =3D> 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000)) >>Where HY80 type steel is the wire steel ? >>Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you need an AWG table) >> >>If it were piano wire it might be HY160 >>or something better than plain steel ? >> >>IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire >>or something that will not corrode/rust ? >> >>Does any of that sound right ? >> >>I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman :-) >> >>Thanks ahead of time, >>geoff > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more = information. = -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2920 - Release = Date: 06/05/10=20 18:25:00 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more = information. =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2921 - Release Date: = 06/06/10 06:25:00
Thanks for all the sites, pictures and = info,=20 GUYS. If I get some time I may try modifying my Lehman with = the wire=20 or flexure hinge replacement (as opposed to the current steel ball = bearing).=20 There is so much good info coming from this group (in the past, = Roger=20 Sparks was a tremendous help to me concerning the building of = his=20 "C Spring" seismometer). h= ttp://www.fairpoint.net/~sparksite/CSpring%20Seismometer.html 
 
If I start this project i'm sure I will = be=20 needing  your help too. Thanks again, Ed.  
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Barry=20 Lotz
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 = 10:57=20 PM
Subject: Re: Wire = Strength

Hi Ed
Here is one possibility shown = on my=20 website. It is taken from the Sprengnether  design.
http://www.seismicvault.com/images/HINGE_12H.jpg It's = a=20 little hard to see but the wire is between the two small = aluminum=20 blocks. There are two scribe points to provide some additional = vertical=20 adjustment.

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

---=20 On Sun, 6/6/10, Edward Ianni = <edwianni1@...........>=20 wrote:

From:=20 Edward Ianni <edwianni1@...........>
Subject: Re: = Wire=20 Strength
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Sunday, June 6, = 2010,=20 4:49 AM

How would the "wire" actually be setup = or=20 configured physically in the
"standard"=20 Lehman.   Ed.


----- Original Message = -----=20
From: "Brett Nordgren" <brett3nt@.............>
To: <psn-l@..............>
Sent: Sunday, = June 06,=20 2010 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Wire Strength


>=20 Geoff,
>
> Try    http://www.smallparts.com/   and=20 search for "17-7 PH Spring Wire"
>
> As sold, in=20 "Condition C" it has a yield strength of over 190,000 = psi
> and=20 if you want to bake it for an hour at 900 F you can raise that = to
> 260,000, and it will possibly get even higher than=20 that.  The 17-7
> material we use for leaf springs = gets a=20 yield strength close to
> 300,000 psi after=20 baking.
>
> The material property you want to be = looking=20 at is yield
> strength.  As defined by AK = Steel
>=20 corp.
> http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/prec= ipitation/17-7_PH_Data_Sheet.pdf
>=20 it is the stress level at which the material will permanently=20 stretch
> by 0.2%.  You could stress a wire to half = that=20 value reasonably safely.
> In some places yield stess is = defined=20 at 2% or even 5% permanent
> stretch, so you should be = aware of=20 which one is being used.  In any
> case, working at = 40-50%=20 of yield is likely to be OK.
>
>=20 Brett
>
>
> At 02:30 AM 6/6/2010, you=20 wrote:
>>Does anyone understand wire strength=20 ?
>>
>>I will look at this=20 way.
>>
>>HY80 steel has the ability to = stand up=20 to
>>80,000 lb/in^2 so you just = translate
>>say the=20 area of a given steel wire
>>what it would be if = whatever=20 weight
>>was on that area as translated = to
>>the=20 area of the wire guage then if it is
>>like 1/2 the = yield=20 strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok = ??
>>
>>5=20 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to
>>Diameter = =3D>=20 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000))
>>Where HY80 type steel is = the=20 wire steel ?
>>Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you = need an=20 AWG table)
>>
>>If it were piano wire it = might be=20 HY160
>>or something better than plain steel=20 ?
>>
>>IS there such a thing as stainless = steel=20 wire
>>or something that will not corrode/rust=20 ?
>>
>>Does any of that sound right=20 ?
>>
>>I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman=20 :-)
>>
>>Thanks ahead of=20 time,
>>geoff
>
>
>=20 = __________________________________________________________
>
>= ;=20 Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
>
> To = leave=20 this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@..............=20 with
> the body of the message (first line only):=20 unsubscribe
> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for = more=20 = information.


-------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------



No=20 virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2920 = -=20 Release Date: 06/05/10=20 =
18:25:00

_____________________________________________________= _____

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list = email=20 PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with =
the body of=20 the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for = more=20 = information.


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG = -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2921 - = Release=20 Date: 06/06/10 06:25:00
Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: Mauro Mariotti mariotti@......... Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2010 08:45:47 +0200 Hello, Regarding springs of a Lehman design the best one you can makeup is represented in the design (that i did not sketched but i have only pictures) here: http://mariottim.interfree.it/doc02hl_e.htm If you look carefully at the pictures describing also the LVDT sensor you can see how a couple of hinges made by a thick steel of 1/10mm works in traction and not in pressure. This is the best design available for an amateur. The element represented in the picture is a solid aluminum plate milled to have the shape required of this design. With some work at bench you do the work assembling some aluminum plates. Regarding a vertical seismometer: A seismometer using the "C" spring as is it in the picture of Roger Sparks cannot be considered a vertical polarized. The couple of springs in C shape keep the boom rather steady but not enough to assure that no horizontal motion is present. This effect is know as "cross-sensitivity" and represent how much of a cross signal is picked by the sensor. An alternative solution can be to keep the C spring very short reducing a lot the cross sensitivity. THis would not reduce the sensor period if the boom is kept long. Anyway a good vertical design remains the "Lacoste" with a spring that can resemble the infinte period if accurately dimensioned. Even if in compression it works much better than you can imagine. A new idea that I did not tested is to go to your dentist and purchase from him a couple of tool they use to remove nerves from teeth roots, these tools are very thin but impressively robust since they are made with titanium. You can use a couple of the making them to work in torsion. Of course you need to lock them in an proper axial configurations. best regards Mauro __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Test of: GVA personal web site From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 16:04:11 -0700 IF any of you guys have time, might you please try out my web site and see if it works ok ?? I used a program called FileZilla a free ftp client to manage the site since Mediacom changed things I cant seem to use Internet Explorer 8 as an FTP client. The site was built using NOTEPAD which is just fine for html tag stuff. If you decide to download any archives please note I password these with my primary email address gmvoeth@........... It is not for secrecy just for file integrity maintenance. Thanks for any feedback. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Test of: GVA personal web site From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 20:42:15 -0400 Hi Geoff, Have you ever considered using Google Sites? If you set up a free Gmail account, you can have your own free website, and you do not have to write in HTML. Their WYSWYG editor is easy to use. My site there is http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/home Take a look. Bob On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > IF any of you guys have time, > might you please try out my web site > and see if it works ok ?? > > I used a program called FileZilla > a free ftp client to manage the site > since Mediacom changed things I cant > seem to use Internet Explorer 8 as an FTP client. > > The site was built using NOTEPAD > which is just fine for html tag stuff. > > If you decide to download any archives > please note I password these with > my primary email address > gmvoeth@........... > It is not for secrecy just for file integrity maintenance. > > Thanks for any feedback. > > http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html > > geoff > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >
Hi Geoff,
=A0
=A0 Have you ever considered using Google Sites? If you set up a free = Gmail account, you can have your own free website, and you do not have to w= rite in HTML. Their WYSWYG editor is easy to use. My site there is
=A0
=A0
=A0=A0 Take a look.
=A0
Bob

On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Geoffrey <gmvoeth@...........> wrote:
IF any of you guys have time,might you please try out my web site
and see if it works ok ??

I used a program called FileZilla
a free ftp client to manage the sitesince Mediacom changed things I cant
seem to use Internet Explorer 8 a= s an FTP client.

The site was built using NOTEPAD
which is just f= ine for html tag stuff.

If you decide to download any archives
please note I password these = with
my primary email address
gmvoeth@...........
It is not for secrecy just for= file integrity maintenance.

Thanks for any feedback.

http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html

geoff
_________________________________________________________= _

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list e= mail PSN-= L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only)= : unsubscribe
See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Subject: RE: Test of: GVA personal web site From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2010 22:21:59 -0700 I got to the site. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 4:04 PM To: PSN-LIST Subject: Test of: GVA personal web site IF any of you guys have time, might you please try out my web site and see if it works ok ?? I used a program called FileZilla a free ftp client to manage the site since Mediacom changed things I cant seem to use Internet Explorer 8 as an FTP client. The site was built using NOTEPAD which is just fine for html tag stuff. If you decide to download any archives please note I password these with my primary email address gmvoeth@........... It is not for secrecy just for file integrity maintenance. Thanks for any feedback. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Test of: GVA personal web site From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 00:20:38 -0700 Hello Bob; I will look at this but my site is provided as normal service from MEDIACOM at no extra charge. "SO I UNDERSTAND" But you can no longer use MSIE as an FTP client or at least it will not work for me with mediacom. I had to go out and find one of those freebie FTP clients, now its super fast to manage the mediacom site. You live out on the Styx in Arizona, I am amazed you are able to have cable at all. Maybe you are close to Kitt Peak or some other governmental like place which demands cable instead of telephone lines ? I live in a town "rather big today" and still there will not be any broadband here. It seems internet is patchy kind of service. Preference to centers of large populations. Thanks for your response. Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob McClure" To: Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 5:42 PM Subject: Re: Test of: GVA personal web site > Hi Geoff, > > Have you ever considered using Google Sites? If you set up a free Gmail > account, you can have your own free website, and you do not have to write in > HTML. Their WYSWYG editor is easy to use. My site there is > > http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/home > > Take a look. > > Bob > > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > >> IF any of you guys have time, >> might you please try out my web site >> and see if it works ok ?? >> >> I used a program called FileZilla >> a free ftp client to manage the site >> since Mediacom changed things I cant >> seem to use Internet Explorer 8 as an FTP client. >> >> The site was built using NOTEPAD >> which is just fine for html tag stuff. >> >> If you decide to download any archives >> please note I password these with >> my primary email address >> gmvoeth@........... >> It is not for secrecy just for file integrity maintenance. >> >> Thanks for any feedback. >> >> http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html >> >> geoff >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the >> message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Test of: GVA personal web site From: "Dale Hardy" dale@........... Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 17:23:06 +1000 Geoff, no problem accessing the site. BTW "Core FTP" is an excellent FTP (Free) program. Google it for the download Regards Dale -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Tuesday, 8 June 2010 9:04 AM To: PSN-LIST Subject: Test of: GVA personal web site IF any of you guys have time, might you please try out my web site and see if it works ok ?? I used a program called FileZilla a free ftp client to manage the site since Mediacom changed things I cant seem to use Internet Explorer 8 as an FTP client. The site was built using NOTEPAD which is just fine for html tag stuff. If you decide to download any archives please note I password these with my primary email address gmvoeth@........... It is not for secrecy just for file integrity maintenance. Thanks for any feedback. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Wire Strength From: "Dale Hardy" dale@........... Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 17:28:46 +1000 A good source of foil is from "Feeler Gauges", as used to set spark plug gaps in engines, very cheap and a range of thicknesses to select from. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Monday, 7 June 2010 9:23 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Wire Strength Where the heck do you guys get your stuff ? I see like 1/4 inch thick Aluminum bent professionally on a break of some kind which is beyond the capability of any amateur known to myself ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Lotz" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 3:57 PM Subject: Re: Wire Strength Hi Ed Here is one possibility shown on my website. It is taken from the Sprengnether design. http://www.seismicvault.com/images/HINGE_12H.jpg It's a little hard to see but the wire is between the two small aluminum blocks. There are two scribe points to provide some additional vertical adjustment. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Sun, 6/6/10, Edward Ianni wrote: From: Edward Ianni Subject: Re: Wire Strength To: psn-l@.............. Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:49 AM How would the "wire" actually be setup or configured physically in the "standard" Lehman. Ed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Wire Strength > Geoff, > > Try http://www.smallparts.com/ and search for "17-7 PH Spring Wire" > > As sold, in "Condition C" it has a yield strength of over 190,000 psi > and if you want to bake it for an hour at 900 F you can raise that to > 260,000, and it will possibly get even higher than that. The 17-7 > material we use for leaf springs gets a yield strength close to > 300,000 psi after baking. > > The material property you want to be looking at is yield > strength. As defined by AK Steel > corp. > http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/precipitation/17-7_PH_ Data_Sheet.pdf > it is the stress level at which the material will permanently stretch > by 0.2%. You could stress a wire to half that value reasonably safely. > In some places yield stess is defined at 2% or even 5% permanent > stretch, so you should be aware of which one is being used. In any > case, working at 40-50% of yield is likely to be OK. > > Brett > > > At 02:30 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >>Does anyone understand wire strength ? >> >>I will look at this way. >> >>HY80 steel has the ability to stand up to >>80,000 lb/in^2 so you just translate >>say the area of a given steel wire >>what it would be if whatever weight >>was on that area as translated to >>the area of the wire guage then if it is >>like 1/2 the yield strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok ?? >> >>5 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to >>Diameter => 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000)) >>Where HY80 type steel is the wire steel ? >>Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you need an AWG table) >> >>If it were piano wire it might be HY160 >>or something better than plain steel ? >> >>IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire >>or something that will not corrode/rust ? >> >>Does any of that sound right ? >> >>I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman :-) >> >>Thanks ahead of time, >>geoff > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2920 - Release Date: 06/05/10 18:25:00 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Test of: GVA personal web site From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 00:35:20 -0700 Hello "Dale Hardy"; FILEZILLA does not need to be installed within the OS to run, You simply extract a zip file to a folder, create a shortcut, give it ADMIN rights and off you go. I really hate to formally install any program in windows. It takes a bit to figure out, but then what doesn't. Thanks for the suggestion but, what I have seems to work well, at the moment. Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Hardy" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 12:23 AM Subject: Test of: GVA personal web site > Geoff, > no problem accessing the site. BTW "Core FTP" is an excellent FTP (Free) > program. Google it for the download > Regards > Dale > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of Geoffrey > Sent: Tuesday, 8 June 2010 9:04 AM > To: PSN-LIST > Subject: Test of: GVA personal web site > > IF any of you guys have time, > might you please try out my web site > and see if it works ok ?? > > I used a program called FileZilla > a free ftp client to manage the site > since Mediacom changed things I cant > seem to use Internet Explorer 8 as an FTP client. > > The site was built using NOTEPAD > which is just fine for html tag stuff. > > If you decide to download any archives > please note I password these with > my primary email address > gmvoeth@........... > It is not for secrecy just for file integrity maintenance. > > Thanks for any feedback. > > http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html > > geoff > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire Strength From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 00:36:04 -0700 I wish Id thought Of that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Hardy" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 12:28 AM Subject: Wire Strength > > > A good source of foil is from "Feeler Gauges", as used to set spark plug > gaps in engines, very cheap and a range of thicknesses to select from. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of Geoffrey > Sent: Monday, 7 June 2010 9:23 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: Wire Strength > > Where the heck do you guys get your stuff ? > I see like 1/4 inch thick Aluminum bent > professionally on a break of some kind > which is beyond the capability of any > amateur known to myself ?? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barry Lotz" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 3:57 PM > Subject: Re: Wire Strength > > > Hi Ed > Here is one possibility shown on my website. It is taken from the > Sprengnether design. > http://www.seismicvault.com/images/HINGE_12H.jpg It's a little hard to see > but the wire is between the two small aluminum > blocks. There are two scribe points to provide some additional vertical > adjustment. > > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > > --- On Sun, 6/6/10, Edward Ianni wrote: > > From: Edward Ianni > Subject: Re: Wire Strength > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Sunday, June 6, 2010, 4:49 AM > > How would the "wire" actually be setup or configured physically in the > "standard" Lehman. Ed. > > > ----- > Original Message ----- > From: "Brett Nordgren" > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 11:03 AM > Subject: Re: Wire Strength > > >> Geoff, >> >> Try http://www.smallparts.com/ and search for "17-7 PH Spring Wire" >> >> As sold, in "Condition C" it has a yield strength of over 190,000 psi >> and if you want to bake it for an hour at 900 F you can raise that to >> 260,000, and it will possibly get even higher than that. The 17-7 >> material we use for leaf springs gets a yield strength close to >> 300,000 psi after baking. >> >> The material property you want to be > looking at is yield >> strength. As defined by AK Steel >> corp. >> > http://www.aksteel.com/pdf/markets_products/stainless/precipitation/17-7_PH_ > Data_Sheet.pdf >> it is the stress level at which the material will permanently stretch >> by 0.2%. You could stress a wire to half that value reasonably safely. >> In some places yield stess is defined at 2% or even 5% permanent >> stretch, so you should be aware of which one is being used. In any >> case, working at 40-50% of yield is likely to be OK. >> >> Brett >> >> >> At 02:30 AM 6/6/2010, you wrote: >>>Does anyone understand wire strength ? >>> >>>I will look at this way. >>> >>>HY80 steel has the ability to stand up to >>>80,000 lb/in^2 so you just > translate >>>say the area of a given steel wire >>>what it would be if whatever weight >>>was on that area as translated to >>>the area of the wire guage then if it is >>>like 1/2 the yield strength 40,000 lb/in^2 you should be ok ?? >>> >>>5 lb on a 28GA wire might translate to >>>Diameter => 2*SQR(weight/(PI * 40000)) >>>Where HY80 type steel is the wire steel ? >>>Maybe 28 or less AWG steel wire. (you need an AWG table) >>> >>>If it were piano wire it might be HY160 >>>or something better than plain steel ? >>> >>>IS there such a thing as stainless steel wire >>>or something that will not corrode/rust ? >>> >>>Does any of that sound right ? >>> >>>I think like a LAYMAN and not Lehman :-) >>> >>>Thanks ahead of time, >>>geoff >> >> >> > __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2920 - Release Date: 06/05/10 > 18:25:00 > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: New station on Map and in Database and tidy up From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2010 21:01:49 +1000 Greetings to all, I would like to welcome Andy Little to the PSN and have added him to the map and database. Andy calls in from nthrn France He is the first new addition for quite some time even tho I see a few new names appearing on the email reflector from time to time .... nudge nudge :) Its been around 2 years since my last cleanup of the database and maps and its really time to see who is and isnt active in the PSN world. Therefore I would appreciate it if you could check yoour map location and data base listing to see if it needs updating in any way etc. If you are not there and would like to be represented please email me the data required is laid out in the database form :) Initially go to http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm and then to your part of the world if you click on an existing station it will take you to the database. I would like to put some sort of time limit on contacting me ... especially those already listed so that I know after a period of time. If I havent been contacted I can assume that person is no longer actively running a seismic station. lets make it 2 months from today 8th June .... so get in touch with me before the 8th of August, to avoid your listing being deleted :( Thanks to all Dave Nelson Sydney Australia __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New station on Map and in Database and tidy up From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 05:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Hi Dave I would like to add a recently completed Inyo FBV sensor: I guess you could= add a H- page of=A0 http://www.seismicvault.com/ CH1: =09=0936" lehman CH2: =09=0912" horiz with stm coil, magnet and feedback CH3: =09=0912" stm style vertical CH4: =09=099" vertical accelerometer w/vrdt sensor CH5: =09=0930" stm style vertical ch6: Inyo FBV =A0 A TO D:=09=09Larry C's serial system with winsdr COMMENTS:=09=09Still thinking about solar/battery power =20 Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com --- On Tue, 6/8/10, Dave Nelson wrote: From: Dave Nelson Subject: New=0A station on Map and in Database and tidy up To: psn-l@.............. Date: Tuesday, June 8, 2010, 4:01 AM Greetings to all, =A0 I would like to welcome Andy Little=A0 to the PSN=A0 and have added him= to the map and database.=A0 Andy calls in from nthrn France =A0 He is the first new addition for quite some time even tho I see a few n= ew names appearing on the email reflector from time to time .... nudge nudge= =A0 :) Its been around 2 years since my last cleanup of the database and maps and its really time to see who is and isnt active in the PSN world. Therefore I would appreciate it if you could check yoour map location and d= ata base listing=A0 to see if it needs updating in any way=A0 etc. If you are not there and would like to be represented please email me the data required is laid out in the database form=A0 :) Initially go to=A0 http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm=A0=A0=A0and then = to your part of the world=A0 if you click on an existing station=A0 it will take you to = the database. I would like to put some sort of time limit on contacting me ... especially= those already listed so that I know after a period of time.=A0 If I havent been c= ontacted I can assume that person is no longer actively running a seismic s= tation. lets make it 2 months from today=A0 8th June .... so get in touch with me b= efore the 8th of August,=A0 to avoid your listing being deleted=A0 :( Thanks to all Dave Nelson Sydney Australia __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
Hi Dave
I would like to add a recently completed Inyo FBV sensor: I = guess you could add a H- page of  http://www.seismicvault.com/
CH1: =09=0936" lehman
CH2: =09=0912" horiz with stm coil, magnet and=
 feedback
CH3: =09=0912" stm style vertical
CH4: =09=099" vertical ac=
celerometer w/vrdt sensor
CH5: =09=0930" stm style vertical
ch6:     =
       Inyo FBV
 
A TO D:=09=09Larry C's serial system  with win=
sdr

COMMENTS:=09=09Still thinking about solar/battery power  

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

--- On <=
b>Tue, 6/8/10, Dave Nelson <dave.nelson@...............> w=
rote:

From=
: Dave Nelson <dave.nelson@...............>
Subject: New=0A statio=
n on Map and in Database and tidy up
To: psn-l@..............
Date: T=
uesday, June 8, 2010, 4:01 AM


Greetings=
 to all,

  I would like to welcome Andy Little  to the PSN=
  and have added him to the
map and database.  Andy calls in f=
rom nthrn France
  He is the first new addition for quite some time=
 even tho I see a few new
names appearing on the email reflector from ti=
me to time .... nudge nudge  :)

 Its been around 2 years since =
my last cleanup of the database and maps
and its really time to see who =
is and isnt active in the PSN world.

Therefore I would appreciate it=
 if you could check yoour map location and data
base listing  to se=
e if it needs updating in any way  etc.

If you are not there an=
d would like to be represented please email me
the data required is laid=
 out in the database form  :)
Initially go to  http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm   and th=
en to your part
of the world  if you click on an existing station&n=
bsp; it will take you to the database.

I would like to put some sort=
 of time limit on contacting me ... especially those
already listed so t=
hat I know after a period of time.  If I havent been contacted I can a=
ssume that person is no longer actively running a seismic station.

l=
ets make it 2 months from today  8th June .... so get in touch with me=
 before the
8th of August,  to avoid your listing being deleted&nbs=
p; :(

Thanks to all
Dave Nelson
Sydney
Australia

___=
_______________________________________________________

Public Seism=
ic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message=0A (=
first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/=
maillist.html for more information.
<= /td>
Subject: RE: New station on Map and in Database and tidy up From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:13:13 -0700 Hi Dave, Is the link below correct? I get a not found message when trying to access it. Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA USA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Dave Nelson Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 4:02 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: New station on Map and in Database and tidy up Greetings to all, I would like to welcome Andy Little to the PSN and have added him to the map and database. Andy calls in from nthrn France He is the first new addition for quite some time even tho I see a few new names appearing on the email reflector from time to time .... nudge nudge :) Its been around 2 years since my last cleanup of the database and maps and its really time to see who is and isnt active in the PSN world. Therefore I would appreciate it if you could check yoour map location and data base listing to see if it needs updating in any way etc. If you are not there and would like to be represented please email me the data required is laid out in the database form :) Initially go to http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm and then to your part of the world if you click on an existing station it will take you to the database. I would like to put some sort of time limit on contacting me ... especially those already listed so that I know after a period of time. If I havent been contacted I can assume that person is no longer actively running a seismic station. lets make it 2 months from today 8th June .... so get in touch with me before the 8th of August, to avoid your listing being deleted :( Thanks to all Dave Nelson Sydney Australia __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: New station on Map and in Database and tidy up From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:24:11 -0500 Hi Steve, I just checked and DID work (6.8.10 1323 CDT). Regards, Jerry
Hi Steve,
 
I just checked and DID work (6.8.10 1323 CDT).
 
Regards,
Jerry
Subject: RE: New station on Map and in Database and tidy up From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:36:03 -0700 Thanks-- it did work after I cut and pasted it directly into IE. http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm Steve From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 11:24 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: New station on Map and in Database and tidy up Hi Steve, I just checked and DID work (6.8.10 1323 CDT). Regards, Jerry

Thanks-- it did work after I cut and pasted it directly = into IE.

http://www.sydneystormcit= y.com/map.htm

 

Steve

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of GPayton
Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 11:24 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: New station on Map and in Database and tidy = up

 

Hi Steve,

 

I just checked and DID work (6.8.10 1323 = CDT).

 

Regards,

Jerry

Subject: Lehman Designs From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:37:34 -0500 Hi All, I was wondering if while designing (building) a horizontal Lehman type sensor, there was a ratio between the dimensions of the length of the pendulum arm and height of the vertical member? Thanks, Jerry
Hi All,
 
I was wondering if while designing (building) a horizontal Lehman = type=20 sensor, there was a ratio between the dimensions of = the=20 length of the pendulum arm and height of the vertical member?
 
Thanks,
Jerry
Subject: RE: Lehman Designs From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 21:27:50 -0700 Hi Jerry, If you look at many of the designs you will see that typically the support wire from the boom to the vertical member is roughly 45 degrees. I'm not aware of any rules that govern the support angle. If the support angle is too low then the support wire tension gets too high. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:38 PM To: PSN Network List Subject: Lehman Designs Hi All, I was wondering if while designing (building) a horizontal Lehman type sensor, there was a ratio between the dimensions of the length of the pendulum arm and height of the vertical member? Thanks, Jerry

Hi Jerry,

If you look at many of the designs you will see that = typically the support wire from the boom to the vertical member is roughly 45 degrees. = I'm not aware of any rules that govern the support angle. If the support = angle is too low then the support wire tension gets too high. =

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Che= ck out Lastest Seismometer Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home<= /a>    Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

 

 

 

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:38 PM
To: PSN Network List
Subject: Lehman Designs

 

Hi All,

 

I was wondering if while designing (building) a = horizontal Lehman type sensor, there was a ratio between the dimensions of the length of the pendulum arm and height of = the vertical member?

 

Thanks,

Jerry

Subject: Re: Lehman Designs From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:57:47 +0000 Hi Jerry; From the July 1979 Scientic American article. "You will want it midway across the crosspiece and on the pipe so that when the rig is assembled, the wire will form an angle of from = 30 to 40 degrees with the horizontal." Ed ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary Lindgren=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 4:27 AM Subject: RE: Lehman Designs Hi Jerry, If you look at many of the designs you will see that typically the = support wire from the boom to the vertical member is roughly 45 degrees. = I'm not aware of any rules that govern the support angle. If the support = angle is too low then the support wire tension gets too high.=20 Gary =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 =20 650-326-0655 =20 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com=20 sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New = Vertical Seismometer=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:38 PM To: PSN Network List Subject: Lehman Designs =20 Hi All, =20 I was wondering if while designing (building) a horizontal Lehman type = sensor, there was a ratio between the dimensions of the length of the = pendulum arm and height of the vertical member?=20 =20 Thanks, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2930 - Release Date: = 06/10/10 18:35:00
 
Hi Jerry;
 
From the July 1979 Scientic American=20 article.
 
  "You=20 will want it midway across the crosspiece and on the pipe
so that = when the=20 rig is assembled, the wire will form an angle of from 30
to 40 = degrees with=20 the horizontal."
 
Ed
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Gary=20 Lindgren
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 = 4:27 AM
Subject: RE: Lehman = Designs

Hi=20 Jerry,

If=20 you look at many of the designs you will see that typically the = support wire=20 from the boom to the vertical member is roughly 45 degrees. I'm not = aware of=20 any rules that govern the support angle. If the support angle is too = low then=20 the support wire tension gets too high.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

Gary=20 Lindgren

585 = Lincoln=20 Ave

Palo Alto = CA=20 94301

 

650-326-0655

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com  =20 Check=20 out Lastest Seismometer Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com 

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home  =  =20 Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer=20

 

 

 

 

From:=20 psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On=20 Behalf Of GPayton
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 7:38=20 PM
To: PSN Network List
Subject: Lehman=20 Designs

 

Hi All,

 

I was wondering if while designing (building) a = horizontal=20 Lehman type sensor, there was a ratio between=20 the dimensions of the length of the pendulum arm and height = of the=20 vertical member?

 

Thanks,

Jerry


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG = -=20 www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2930 - = Release=20 Date: 06/10/10 18:35:00
Subject: Wire & Metal Flexure Information From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 10:18:58 -0500 Here is an interesting article about flexures that may be of interest to the group. http://www.aspe.net/publications/Annual_2005/PAPERS/5FLEX/1859.PDF Regards, Jerry
Here is an interesting article about flexures that may be of = interest to=20 the group.
http://www.aspe.net/publications/Annual_2005/PAPERS/5FLEX/1859.PDF=
 
Regards,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Wire & Metal Flexure Information From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 16:47:17 -0400 Hi Jerry, That's a very useful article--new to me. Thanks for sharing the link. One general comment: While crossed-flexures such as those described in the article have very low torque and can be quite useful in a vertical instrument, for horizontal Lehmans and garden gates you could probably get away with a single thin (0.002"?) flexure clamped on edge with a length (gap between the two rotating parts) of 0.020" or perhaps even less. Its only effect vs the crossed-flexure design would be to require the tilt of the instrument to be changed very slightly to get the desired period, as the stiffer flexure would be providing a part of the restoring force normally provided by gravity. And a single short flexure is likely to be much more rugged than a crossed-flexure pivot. Regards, Brett At 11:18 AM 6/11/2010, you wrote: >Here is an interesting article about flexures that may be of >interest to the group. >http://www.aspe.net/publications/Annual_2005/PAPERS/5FLEX/1859.PDF > >Regards, >Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Wire & Metal Flexure Information From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:58:05 -0500 No problem, Brett. After the recent discussions, I thought it might be useful to those of you that are smart enough to understand, have the mechanical dexterity, equipment to build sensors and are not clumsy, broke and OLD, like me! (smile). Regards, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Brett Nordgren To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 3:47 PM Subject: Re: Wire & Metal Flexure Information Hi Jerry, That's a very useful article--new to me. Thanks for sharing the link. One general comment: While crossed-flexures such as those described in the article have very low torque and can be quite useful in a vertical instrument, for horizontal Lehman's and garden gates you could probably get away with a single thin (0.002"?) flexure clamped on edge with a length (gap between the two rotating parts) of 0.020" or perhaps even less. Its only effect vs. the crossed-flexure design would be to require the tilt of the instrument to be changed very slightly to get the desired period, as the stiffer flexure would be providing a part of the restoring force normally provided by gravity. And a single short flexure is likely to be much more rugged than a crossed-flexure pivot. Regards, Brett At 11:18 AM 6/11/2010, you wrote: >Here is an interesting article about flexures that may be of >interest to the group. >http://www.aspe.net/publications/Annual_2005/PAPERS/5FLEX/1859.PDF > >Regards, >Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
No problem, Brett.  After the recent discussions, I thought it = might=20 be useful to those of you that are smart enough to understand, have the=20 mechanical dexterity, equipment to build sensors and are not clumsy, = broke and=20 OLD, like me!
(smile).
 
Regards,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Brett=20 Nordgren
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 = 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Wire & Metal = Flexure=20 Information

Hi Jerry,

That's a very useful article--new to = me. =20 Thanks for sharing the link.

One general comment:  While=20 crossed-flexures such as those described
in the article have very = low=20 torque and can be quite useful in a
vertical instrument, for = horizontal=20 Lehman's and garden gates you
could probably get away with a = single thin=20 (0.002"?) flexure clamped
on edge with a length (gap between the = two=20 rotating parts) of 0.020"
or perhaps even less.  Its only = effect vs.=20 the crossed-flexure design
would be to require the tilt of the = instrument=20 to be changed very
slightly to get the desired period, as the = stiffer=20 flexure would be
providing a part of the restoring force normally = provided=20 by
gravity.  And a single short flexure is likely to be much = more=20 rugged
than a crossed-flexure = pivot.

Regards,
Brett

At=20 11:18 AM 6/11/2010, you wrote:
>Here is an interesting article = about=20 flexures that may be of
>interest to the group.
><http://www.aspe.net/publications/Annual_2005/PAPERS/5FLEX/1859.PDF">htt= p://www.aspe.net/publications/Annual_2005/PAPERS/5FLEX/1859.PDF>http:/= /www.aspe.net/publications/Annual_2005/PAPERS/5FLEX/1859.PDF
><= BR>>Regards,
>Jerry


_________________________________= _________________________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re:updates to database From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 11:10:16 +1000 Hi Guys, those that havent emailed me yet with station confirmation and any updates please do so :) have had resopnses from some of you..... thanks to .... Gary Lindgren Dave Wolny Jon Frimann C Spangler Barry Lotz Larry Conklin Rolando Benitez Robert McClure George Bush Steve Hammond G. Payton Bob Hancock Jim O'Donnell Stephen Mortensen Geoffrey Morgan Voeth Pete Rowe Larry Cochrane (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya dont have to :) ) a small list so far out of the some 105 stations in the list __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: updates to database From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2010 21:24:50 -0700 Hi Dave, I don't see your email address so this is my confirmation -- Steve Hammond -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Dave Nelson Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 6:10 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re:updates to database Hi Guys, those that havent emailed me yet with station confirmation and any updates please do so :) have had resopnses from some of you..... thanks to .... Gary Lindgren Dave Wolny Jon Frimann C Spangler Barry Lotz Larry Conklin Rolando Benitez Robert McClure George Bush Steve Hammond G. Payton Bob Hancock Jim O'Donnell Stephen Mortensen Geoffrey Morgan Voeth Pete Rowe Larry Cochrane (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya dont have to :) ) a small list so far out of the some 105 stations in the list __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Another flexure reference From: Chuck / Judy Burch cjburch@........... Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:09:54 -0600 All, Brian Trease has written an excellent reference on flexures which describes lots of different designs. Just search on "flexures lecture summary". Chuck __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: 3d imaging of EQ data ???? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:16:46 -0700 Hello PSN; I dont know if you ever saw the NVIDIA 3d images on a HDMI monitor but I must say it is quite impressive and might be a way to display EQ info in 3D ?? AND I was only using the old fashion 2 color cardboard glasses. geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: NICOBAR EQ From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:41:33 -0700 Hello PSN CHUMS, I think I received the NICOBAR quake as a PKiKP. You can see what I saw at http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/EVENT_001/EVENT_001.html OR the main page http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html I will try and update my site regular as i get new signals If I can figure out the best way. Right now its uploading via FTP. You might see missing stuff like a readme file since Im not sure exactly what to put in it. Best regards; geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Seismic Switch From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 09:44:22 -0500 Dianne, I am sincerely sorry to hear that Chris is ill, I was not aware. With this reply to you, I will also notify the PSN (Public Seismic Network) group of his illness. I am positive that each and every one of the group is concerned and wish him a speedy and thorough recovery! He is and has been a valued source of information and a good friend. Please give him my personal wishes and the PSN Group's combined best wishes for recovery. Sincerely, Jerry Payton ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: gpayton@............. Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 6:28 AM Subject: Re: Seismic Switch Chris is seriously ill in the Critical Care Unit at the University Hospital, Coventry and Warwickshire and will not be able to reply to e-mails etc for some time. Best wishes, Dianne
Dianne,
 
I am sincerely sorry to = hear that Chris=20 is ill, I was not aware.  With=20 this reply to you, I will also notify the PSN (Public Seismic Network) = group of=20 his illness. 
 
I am positive that each and = every one=20 of the group is concerned and wish him a speedy and thorough=20 recovery!  He is and has been a valued source of = information and a=20 good friend.  Please give him my personal wishes = and the PSN=20 Group's combined best wishes for recovery.
 
Sincerely,
Jerry Payton
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 = 6:28 AM
Subject: Re: Seismic = Switch

Chris is seriously ill in the Critical Care Unit at the = University=20 Hospital, Coventry and Warwickshire and will not be able to reply to = e-mails=20 etc for some time.
 
Best wishes, Dianne
 Subject: Seismic Switch From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 10:28:41 -0500 I had previously addressed this to Chris, but will also ask the group: Please enlighten me on a Seismic Switch, specifically a Kinemetrics TS3, which is currently on EBay. Would it be worth anything; salvage parts maybe? Is it sensitive enough for teleseismic sensing? Regards, Jerry
I had previously addressed this to Chris, but will also ask the=20 group:
 
Please enlighten me on a Seismic Switch, specifically a=20 Kinemetrics TS3, which is currently on EBay.  = Would it be=20 worth anything; salvage parts maybe?   Is it sensitive enough = for=20 teleseismic sensing?
 
Regards,
Jerry
Subject: RE: Seismic Switch From: "Timothy Carpenter" geodynamics@....... Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 12:37:38 -0400 Jerry, I found the following in the archives: Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KINEMETRICS SEISMIC SENSOR From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 07:01:01 -0800 I believe that this is a 3-component force balance accelerometer. Kinemetrics made them from scratch in order to produce a reasonably-priced product. It triggers on an earthquake and sends analog data to a central recording system. It predates modern MEMS accelerometers, will only detect strong local earthquakes, and should only be purchased for a lot less than this vendor thinks it's worth. I'm sure Larry's system will be better and reasonably priced. RADIOTEL@....... wrote: > > TO: ALL LIST MEMBERS > There is a Kinemetrics TS-3 Seismic Sensor on Ebay #1657596668. Current bid > is $102.00. I have no idea whether it is a strong motion sensor, long period > sensor or broad band sensor. Hope that helps. -Tim- Timothy Carpenter, P.E., President GeoDynamics Consultants, Inc. 5043 Whitlow Ct. Commerce Twp., Michigan 48382 248-363-4529 248-766-1629 geodynamics@........... geodynamics@....... From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:29 AM To: PSN Network List Subject: Seismic Switch I had previously addressed this to Chris, but will also ask the group: Please enlighten me on a Seismic Switch, specifically a Kinemetrics TS3, which is currently on EBay. Would it be worth anything; salvage parts maybe? Is it sensitive enough for teleseismic sensing? Regards, Jerry

Jerry,

I found the following in the archives:

Public Seismic = Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

 

 

Subject: Re: = KINEMETRICS SEISMIC SENSOR

From: Doug = Crice  dcrice@............

Date: Mon, 05 Nov = 2001 07:01:01 -0800

 

I believe that this = is a 3-component force balance accelerometer.

Kinemetrics made = them from scratch in order to produce a

reasonably-priced = product.  It triggers on an earthquake and = sends

analog data to a = central recording system.  It predates modern = MEMS

accelerometers, = will only detect strong local earthquakes, and = should

only be purchased = for a lot less than this vendor thinks it's worth. = I'm

sure Larry's system = will be better and reasonably priced.

 

RADIOTEL@....... = wrote:

> =

> TO: ALL LIST = MEMBERS

> There is a = Kinemetrics TS-3 Seismic Sensor on Ebay #1657596668.  Current = bid

> is = $102.00.  I have no idea whether it is a strong motion sensor, long = period

> sensor or = broad band sensor.

Hope that helps.

-Tim-

 

Timothy Carpenter, P.E., President

GeoDynamics Consultants, Inc.

5043 Whitlow Ct.

Commerce Twp., Michigan 48382

248-363-4529

248-766-1629

geodynamics@...........=

geodynamics@.......

=

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of GPayton
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:29 = AM
To: PSN Network List
Subject: Seismic = Switch

 

I had = previously addressed this to Chris, but will also ask the = group:

 

Please enlighten me on a Seismic Switch, = specifically a Kinemetrics TS3, which is currently on = EBay.  Would it be worth anything; salvage parts maybe?   = Is it sensitive enough for teleseismic = sensing?

 

Regards,

Jerry

Subject: Re: Seismic Switch From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 11:54:53 -0500 Thank you, Tim. That is what I suspected; that it was (1) an accelerometer, (2) that it might not be sensitive enough and (3) not worth the cost or trouble. I was wondering IF any of it might be useful as experimental parts. Thank again, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Timothy Carpenter To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:37 AM Subject: RE: Seismic Switch Jerry, I found the following in the archives: Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: KINEMETRICS SEISMIC SENSOR From: Doug Crice dcrice@............ Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 07:01:01 -0800 I believe that this is a 3-component force balance accelerometer. Kinemetrics made them from scratch in order to produce a reasonably-priced product. It triggers on an earthquake and sends analog data to a central recording system. It predates modern MEMS accelerometers, will only detect strong local earthquakes, and should only be purchased for a lot less than this vendor thinks it's worth. I'm sure Larry's system will be better and reasonably priced. RADIOTEL@....... wrote: > > TO: ALL LIST MEMBERS > There is a Kinemetrics TS-3 Seismic Sensor on Ebay #1657596668. Current bid > is $102.00. I have no idea whether it is a strong motion sensor, long period > sensor or broad band sensor. Hope that helps. -Tim- Timothy Carpenter, P.E., President GeoDynamics Consultants, Inc. 5043 Whitlow Ct. Commerce Twp., Michigan 48382 248-363-4529 248-766-1629 geodynamics@........... geodynamics@....... From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:29 AM To: PSN Network List Subject: Seismic Switch I had previously addressed this to Chris, but will also ask the group: Please enlighten me on a Seismic Switch, specifically a Kinemetrics TS3, which is currently on EBay. Would it be worth anything; salvage parts maybe? Is it sensitive enough for teleseismic sensing? Regards, Jerry
Thank you, Tim.  That is what I suspected; that it was (1) an=20 accelerometer, (2) that it might not be sensitive enough and (3) not = worth the=20 cost or trouble.  I was wondering IF any of it might be useful as=20 experimental parts.
 
Thank again,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Timothy=20 Carpenter
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 = 11:37=20 AM
Subject: RE: Seismic = Switch

Jerry,

I=20 found the following in the archives:

Public Seismic = Network=20 Mailing List (PSN-L)

 

 

Subject: Re: = KINEMETRICS=20 SEISMIC SENSOR

From: Doug = Crice =20 dcrice@............

Date: Mon, 05 = Nov 2001=20 07:01:01 -0800

 

I believe that = this is a=20 3-component force balance accelerometer.

Kinemetrics made = them from=20 scratch in order to produce a

reasonably-priced=20 product.  It triggers on an earthquake and = sends

analog data to a = central=20 recording system.  It predates modern MEMS

accelerometers, = will only=20 detect strong local earthquakes, and should

only be = purchased for a=20 lot less than this vendor thinks it's worth. I'm

sure Larry's = system will=20 be better and reasonably priced.

 

RADIOTEL@....... = wrote:

>=20

> TO: ALL = LIST=20 MEMBERS

> There is a=20 Kinemetrics TS-3 Seismic Sensor on Ebay #1657596668.  Current=20 bid

> is = $102.00.  I=20 have no idea whether it is a strong motion sensor, long=20 period

> sensor or = broad band=20 sensor.

Hope=20 that helps.

-Tim-

 

Timothy=20 Carpenter, P.E., President

GeoDynamics=20 Consultants, Inc.

5043=20 Whitlow Ct.

Commerce=20 Twp., Michigan 48382

248-363-4529

248-766-1629

geodynamics@...........

geodynamics@.......

 

From:=20 psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On=20 Behalf Of GPayton
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 11:29=20 AM
To: PSN Network List
Subject: Seismic=20 Switch

 

I had previously addressed this to Chris, but = will also ask=20 the group:

 

Please enlighten me on a Seismic Switch, = specifically a Kinemetrics TS3, which is currently on = EBay.  Would it be worth anything; salvage parts = maybe?   Is it=20 sensitive enough for teleseismic sensing?

 

Regards,

Jerry

Subject: For You EQ Programmers From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 05:52:45 -0700 Hey Guys, I used to have problems running programs from within programs but found a wonderful way that seems to work in Windows Vista 64 or whatever. This is using Power Basic 8 ( not sure about others like C or whatever) What you do is build from within the calling program, a text oriented batch file just like the old MSDOS days. You PLACE "EXIT" at the end of the batch file. You use the PBASIC shell command to execute the batch file you just created and then kill or delete ( they mean the same thing) the batch file you just ran. This means you are making a program which is running another ( exe,com, whatever) indirectly through the system itself. The program is behaving as if it were you the user. This seems to be the only way to do this without some kind of OS error happening when indirectly executing one program from within another. Hope this helps another ignoramus like myself who had to learn the hard way. Hoorah for the conspiracy of education. Best Regards to you at PSN. I like this method even tho there may in your eyes be a better one like using the call command ?? I think the batch idea gives you more flexibility with controlling the results. When you want to use another program possibly not built by yourself. geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Hello PSN, Welkommen im [GVA] land. From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 11:51:03 -0700 Hello PSN; I just added a 5 minute AVI [DIVX like] video of GVA IN ACTION on a recent signal [ not sure which] as well as an update of the latest signals received here. Since I post in PSN form you will see only the RAW form on my site. My camera has to be activated manually AFTER a signal comes in So I can never catch a signal as it arrives. It is a cheap KODAK digital camera with no automatic or, external power, features. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html Sometimes the images do not fully load and you need to refresh to see the whole thing. If you have troubles seeing anything please let me know. Like I say man, I'm crude when compared with you guys. Sincerely; geoff [ GVA] __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Using the PSN uploaded event files From: Kevin Brunt k.brunt@......... Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 17:33:56 +0100 (BST) I have a question about "public" use of the event data uploaded to the PSN web site. There do not appear to be any disclaimers or other restrictions on use on the site, but this does not absolve me from the courtesy of asking. I am a volunteer at a computer museum. One of our exhibits is a computer that was used professionally for seismic work. The donated equipment did not include the replay equipment for the v-to-f recorded data, nor yet the seismic array that generated the data in the first place. I have written a minimal program for the machine that replays an event at approximately "real time" through the D-to-A interface onto an oscilloscope. Obviously I have been using the PSN web site as a source of test data. Will it cause annoyance/distress/whatever if we operate this program in public? Regards Kevin __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Using the PSN uploaded event files From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 06:43:19 +1000 Hi Kevin, personally I wouldnt have any problem with my data being used as long as the source of the data was acknowledged :) it works the same for all my storm pix I have on my www site, I just ask for the user to acknowledge me when they get used. cheers Dave At 05:33 PM 6/16/2010 +0100, you wrote: >I have a question about "public" use of the event data uploaded to the PSN >web site. There do not appear to be any disclaimers or other restrictions >on use on the site, but this does not absolve me from the courtesy of asking. >I am a volunteer at a computer museum. One of our exhibits is a computer >that was used professionally for seismic work. The donated equipment did >not include the replay equipment for the v-to-f recorded data, nor yet the >seismic array that generated the data in the first place. >I have written a minimal program for the machine that replays an event at >approximately "real time" through the D-to-A interface onto an >oscilloscope. Obviously I have been using the PSN web site as a source of >test data. >Will it cause annoyance/distress/whatever if we operate this program in >public? > >Regards > >Kevin __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: From: Kevin Brunt k.brunt@......... Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:44:40 +0100 (BST) I am on leave until 22 June 2010. In my absence please contact the ITS Systems Team desk at its-systems@......... (020 7631 6320) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: AHrubetz@....... Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 19:48:59 EDT A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space and Science Research Center, apparently a private concern out of Florida. The report dealt primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs sunspot activity. But what caught my eye was the statement: "After studying 300-plus years of data, an SSRC study also found decreased solar activity had an 80.6% correlation with increased volcanic activity, and 100% correlation with essentially all of the largest U. S. earthquakes." I had never heard of such an analogy. Is this make believe? Al Hrubetz
A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter for= m the=20 Space and Science Research Center, apparently a private concern out of=20 Florida.  The report dealt primarily with prediction of agricultural= =20 production vs sunspot activity.  But what caught my eye was the state= ment:=20 "After studying 300-plus years of data, an SSRC study also found= =20 decreased solar activity had an 80.6% correlation with increased volcanic= =20 activity, and 100% correlation with essentially all of the largest U. S.= =20 earthquakes."
I had never heard of such an analogy.  Is= this=20 make believe?
 
Al Hrubetz
= Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: "Dave Nelson" davefnelson@....... Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 00:28:02 -0000 There are Lies , Damned Lies and Statistics =20 Dave Nelson Rolling Hills Estates, California=20 From: AHrubetz@.......... Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:48 PM To: psn-l@................. Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space and Science = Research Center, apparently a private concern out of Florida. The = report dealt primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs = sunspot activity. But what caught my eye was the statement: "After = studying 300-plus years of data, an SSRC study also found decreased = solar activity had an 80.6% correlation with increased volcanic = activity, and 100% correlation with essentially all of the largest U. S. = earthquakes." I had never heard of such an analogy. Is this make believe? Al Hrubetz
There are Lies , Damned Lies and=20 Statistics  
 
Dave Nelson
Rolling Hills Estates, = California 
From: AHrubetz@.......
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 11:48 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES

A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter = form the=20 Space and Science Research Center, apparently a private concern out of=20 Florida.  The report dealt primarily with prediction of = agricultural=20 production vs sunspot activity.  But what caught my eye was the = statement:=20 "After studying 300-plus years of data, an SSRC study also = found=20 decreased solar activity had an 80.6% correlation with increased = volcanic=20 activity, and 100% correlation with essentially all of the largest U. S. = earthquakes."
I had never heard of such an analogy.  = Is this=20 make believe?
 
Al = Hrubetz
 Subject: Re: Using the PSN uploaded event files From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 21:47:07 -0700 Hi Kevin, I don't see a problem with the way you want to use the data. After all it is the "Public" Seismic Network. As Dave Nelson pointed out some mention of the data source would be nice. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 6/16/2010 9:33 AM, Kevin Brunt wrote: > I have a question about "public" use of the event data uploaded to the PSN web site. There do not appear to be any disclaimers or other restrictions on use on the site, but this does not absolve me from the courtesy of asking. > > I am a volunteer at a computer museum. One of our exhibits is a computer that was used professionally for seismic work. The donated equipment did not include the replay equipment for the v-to-f recorded data, nor yet the seismic array that generated the data in the first place. > > I have written a minimal program for the machine that replays an event at approximately "real time" through the D-to-A interface onto an oscilloscope. Obviously I have been using the PSN web site as a source of test data. > > Will it cause annoyance/distress/whatever if we operate this program in public? > > Regards > > Kevin > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: John Cole johncole0722@....... Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 04:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Al, Damn lies and statistics are pretty strong words .Yes, it has not been = empirically proven as you and other gentlemen would say however, do not let= strong statements discourage you from bringing information forward for all= to see . Time will tell one way or the other. If we ever get a clue as to = =A0a possible cause of earthquakes it will come forward just like you prese= nted it . Now just suppose it does turn out to have merit? The person who b= rought it to the attention of the fraternity will soon be forgotten and a n= ew individual known to us will quickly take credit for=A0the discovery beca= use he had=A0known=A0 it all along=A0=0A=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Honest John PS, A prophet is = without honor in his own country ( Jesus Christ)=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________= _________________=0AFrom: "AHrubetz@......." =0ATo: psn-l= @...................... Wed, June 16, 2010 6:48:59 PM=0ASubject: SOLAR ACTI= VITY VS. EARTHQUAKES=0A=0AA friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form t= he Space and Science Research Center, apparently a private concern out of F= lorida.=A0 The report dealt primarily with prediction of agricultural produ= ction vs sunspot activity.=A0 But what caught my eye was the statement: "Af= ter studying 300-plus years of data, an=A0SSRC study also found decreased s= olar activity had an 80.6% correlation with increased volcanic activity, an= d 100% correlation with essentially all of the largest U. S. earthquakes."= =0AI had never heard of such an analogy.=A0 Is this make believe?=0A=0AAl H= rubetz
=0A
Al, Damn lies and statistics are pretty s= trong words .Yes, it has not been empirically proven as you and other gentl= emen would say however, do not let strong statements discourage you from br= inging information forward for all to see . Time will tell one way or the o= ther. If we ever get a clue as to  a possible cause of earthquakes it = will come forward just like you presented it . Now just suppose it does tur= n out to have merit? The person who brought it to the attention of the frat= ernity will soon be forgotten and a new individual known to us will quickly= take credit for the discovery because he had known  it all along 
          = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;            = ;            &n= bsp;    Honest John PS, A prophet is without honor in his ow= n country ( Jesus Christ)
=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom= : "AHrubetz@......." <AHrubetz@.......>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 6:48:59 PM
<= B>Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. = EARTHQUAKES

=0A
A friend sent me a portion of = a newsletter form the Space and Science Research Center, apparently a priva= te concern out of Florida.  The report dealt primarily with prediction= of agricultural production vs sunspot activity.  But what caught my e= ye was the statement: "After studying 300-plus years of data, an S= SRC study also found decreased solar activity had an 80.6% correlation with= increased volcanic activity, and 100% correlation with essentially all of = the largest U. S. earthquakes."
=0A
<= FONT size=3D4>I had never heard of such an analogy.  Is this make beli= eve?
=0A
 
=0A
Al Hrubetz
Subject: RE: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: "Kareem J. Lanier" system98765@............. Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 10:55:07 -0700 Thanks John. I for one thought the article sounded very interesting and intriguing, so I encourage all to continue to bring it forth and share it with PSN. It's appreciated! Kareem Lanier (now moved to Elk Grove, too far from the seismic activity L ) From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of John Cole Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:48 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES Al, Damn lies and statistics are pretty strong words .Yes, it has not been empirically proven as you and other gentlemen would say however, do not let strong statements discourage you from bringing information forward for all to see . Time will tell one way or the other. If we ever get a clue as to a possible cause of earthquakes it will come forward just like you presented it . Now just suppose it does turn out to have merit? The person who brought it to the attention of the fraternity will soon be forgotten and a new individual known to us will quickly take credit for the discovery because he had known it all along Honest John PS, A prophet is without honor in his own country ( Jesus Christ) _____ From: "AHrubetz@......." To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 6:48:59 PM Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space and Science Research Center, apparently a private concern out of Florida. The report dealt primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs sunspot activity. But what caught my eye was the statement: "After studying 300-plus years of data, an SSRC study also found decreased solar activity had an 80.6% correlation with increased volcanic activity, and 100% correlation with essentially all of the largest U. S. earthquakes." I had never heard of such an analogy. Is this make believe? Al Hrubetz

Thanks John.

 

I for one thought the article sounded very interesting = and intriguing, so I encourage all to continue to bring it forth and share = it with PSN. It’s appreciated!

 

Kareem Lanier

(now moved to Elk Grove, too far from the seismic = activity L )

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of John Cole
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:48 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES

 

Al, Damn lies and statistics are pretty strong = words .Yes, it has not been empirically proven as you and other gentlemen would say however, do not let strong statements discourage you from bringing = information forward for all to see . Time will tell one way or the other. If we ever = get a clue as to  a possible cause of earthquakes it will come forward = just like you presented it . Now just suppose it does turn out to have merit? The = person who brought it to the attention of the fraternity will soon be forgotten = and a new individual known to us will quickly take credit for the = discovery because he had known  it all along 
            &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    Honest John PS, A prophet is without honor in his own country ( Jesus = Christ)

 

From:= "AHrubetz@......." <AHrubetz@.......>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 6:48:59 PM
Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES


<= o:p>

A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space = and Science Research Center, apparently a private concern out of = Florida.  The report dealt primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs = sunspot activity.  But what caught my eye was the statement: = &= quot;After studying 300-plus years of data, an SSRC study also found decreased = solar activity had an 80.6% correlation with increased volcanic activity, and = 100% correlation with essentially all of the largest U. S. = earthquakes."<= o:p>

I had never heard of such an analogy.  Is this make = believe?<= o:p>

 

Al Hrubetz

Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: "Dave Nelson" davefnelson@....... Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 23:59:57 -0000 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the = persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to = bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to disparage = statistics that do not support their positions. It is also sometimes = colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point. The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain (among = others), who (wrongly) attributed it to the 19th Century British Prime = Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804-1881): "There are three kinds of lies: = lies, damned lies, and statistics."=20 My Comment was taken FAR too seriously. Lighten up. My mind is open but also skeptical. Correlations can be very misleading = particularly with noisy data.=20 Dave Nelson Rolling Hills Estates CA From: Kareem J. Lanier=20 Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:55 PM To: psn-l@................. Subject: RE: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES Thanks John. =20 I for one thought the article sounded very interesting and intriguing, = so I encourage all to continue to bring it forth and share it with PSN. = It's appreciated! =20 Kareem Lanier=20 (now moved to Elk Grove, too far from the seismic activity L ) =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of John Cole Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:48 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES =20 Al, Damn lies and statistics are pretty strong words .Yes, it has not = been empirically proven as you and other gentlemen would say however, do = not let strong statements discourage you from bringing information = forward for all to see . Time will tell one way or the other. If we ever = get a clue as to a possible cause of earthquakes it will come forward = just like you presented it . Now just suppose it does turn out to have = merit? The person who brought it to the attention of the fraternity will = soon be forgotten and a new individual known to us will quickly take = credit for the discovery because he had known it all along=20 = Honest John PS, A prophet is without honor = in his own country ( Jesus Christ) =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: "AHrubetz@......." To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Wed, June 16, 2010 6:48:59 PM Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space and Science = Research Center, apparently a private concern out of Florida. The = report dealt primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs = sunspot activity. But what caught my eye was the statement: "After = studying 300-plus years of data, an SSRC study also found decreased = solar activity had an 80.6% correlation with increased volcanic = activity, and 100% correlation with essentially all of the largest U. S. = earthquakes." I had never heard of such an analogy. Is this make believe? =20 Al Hrubetz

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the = persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments, and the tendency of people to = disparage=20 statistics that do not support their positions. It is also sometimes=20 colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's = point.

The term was popularised in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who=20 (wrongly) attributed it to the 19th Century British Prime Minister = Benjamin Disraeli (1804=961881): "There are = three kinds=20 of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

My Comment was taken FAR too = seriously.  =20 Lighten up.

 My mind is open but also skeptical. = Correlations can be very misleading particularly with noisy=20 data. 

Dave Nelson

Rolling Hills Estates CA

 

 

 


Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 5:55 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: RE: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. = EARTHQUAKES

Thanks=20 John.

 

I=20 for one thought the article sounded very interesting and intriguing, so = I=20 encourage all to continue to bring it forth and share it with PSN. = It=92s=20 appreciated!

 

Kareem=20 Lanier

(now=20 moved to Elk Grove, too far from the seismic activity = L=20 )

 

From: psn-l-request@............... =20 [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of John=20 Cole
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 4:48 AM
To:=20 psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS.=20 EARTHQUAKES

 

Al, Damn lies and statistics are pretty strong = words .Yes, it=20 has not been empirically proven as you and other gentlemen would say = however, do=20 not let strong statements discourage you from bringing information = forward for=20 all to see . Time will tell one way or the other. If we ever get a clue = as to=20  a possible cause of earthquakes it will come forward just like you = presented it . Now just suppose it does turn out to have merit? The = person who=20 brought it to the attention of the fraternity will soon be forgotten and = a new=20 individual known to us will quickly take credit for the discovery = because=20 he had known  it all=20 along 
         &nbs= p;            = ;            =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;            = ;      =20 Honest John PS, A prophet is without honor in his own country ( Jesus=20 Christ)

 

From: = "AHrubetz@......."=20 <AHrubetz@.......>
To: = psn-l@..............
Sent: Wed,=20 June 16, 2010 6:48:59 PM
Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS.=20 EARTHQUAKES


A=20 friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space and Science = Research=20 Center, apparently a private concern out of Florida.  The report = dealt=20 primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs sunspot = activity. =20 But what caught my eye was the statement: "After=20 studying 300-plus years of data, an SSRC study also found decreased = solar=20 activity had an 80.6% correlation with increased volcanic activity, and = 100%=20 correlation with essentially all of the largest U. S.=20 earthquakes."

I had=20 never heard of such an analogy.  Is this make = believe?

 

Al=20 Hrubetz

= Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY AND EARTHQUAKES From: AHrubetz@....... Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 22:27:00 EDT I googled the subject and there are a large number of articles discussing the effects of solar activity upon volcanism and earthquakes. Among them are: Solar Activity as a Triggering Mechanism for Earthquakes -Smithsonian/NASA Astrophysics Data System "Solar activity . . . plays a significant but by no means exclusive role in the triggering of earthquakes . . . " Solar Activity and Global Seismicity of the Earth -Bulletin of the Russian Academy of Science "A maximum in the number of earthquakes directly correlates with the instant of a sudden increase in solar wind activity . . . " About Possible Influence of Solar Activity upon Seismic and Volcanic Actions: Long Term Forecast -Transactions of the International Academy of Science Relationship between Global Seismicity and Solar Activities -Book published by the Seismological Society of China etc. etc. So, it appears that the subject is worthy of further study. Al Hrubetz
I googled the subject and there are a large number of article= s=20 discussing the effects of solar activity upon volcanism and earthquakes.= Among=20 them are:
 
Solar Activity as a Triggering Mechanism for=20 Earthquakes
    -Smithsonian/NASA Astrophysics Data= =20 System
"Solar activity . . . plays a significant but by no means exc= lusive=20 role in the triggering of earthquakes . . . "
 
Solar Activity and Global Seismicity of the=20 Earth
    -Bulletin of the Russian Academy of= =20 Science
"A maximum in the number of earthquakes directly correlates= with=20 the instant of a sudden increase in solar wind activity . . . "
 
About Possible Influence of Solar Activity upon Seismic an= d=20 Volcanic Actions:  Long Term Forecast
    -Transactions of the International Ac= ademy=20 of Science
 
Relationship between Global Seismicity and Solar=20 Activities
    -Book published by the Seismological= =20 Society of China
 
    etc. etc.
 
So, it appears that the subject is worthy of further=20 study.
 
Al Hrubetz
Subject: Earth ring From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 05:32:09 EDT Hi All, Is there anybody who is operating a tilt meter in the last 24 hours. I have picked up an earth ring at 20 minutes ( oSo ) followed by a strong 35.5 minute ( oS3 ). The peculiar thing is that there has been no major earth quake activity preceding this. Can anybody confirm this observation ? Martin Page
Hi All,
 
   Is there anybody who is operating a tilt meter in the la= st 24=20 hours. I have picked up an earth ring at 20 minutes ( oSo )  followed= by a=20 strong 35.5 minute ( oS3 ). The peculiar thing is that there has been no= major=20 earth quake activity preceding this. Can anybody confirm this observation= =20 ?
 
 
Martin Page  
Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 01:04:54 -0700 You Mean Like 90% of all people who die have eaten tomatoes sometime in their life ?? All I know is Nickle is Magneto Strictive and Quartz is Piezo Electric both things will change shape in the presence of one field or the other. Now the earth is a big thing full of both those and the sun generates lots of E and B fields ??? Maybe the sun can change the dimensions of the Earth slightly based upon those ideas. Putting stresses and strains into like the straw which broke the camels back ?? geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:48 PM Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES >A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space and Science > Research Center, apparently a private concern out of Florida. The report dealt > primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs sunspot activity. > But what caught my eye was the statement: "After studying 300-plus years > of data, an SSRC study also found decreased solar activity had an 80.6% > correlation with increased volcanic activity, and 100% correlation with > essentially all of the largest U. S. earthquakes." > I had never heard of such an analogy. Is this make believe? > > Al Hrubetz > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: AHrubetz@....... Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 13:30:01 EDT Yes, putting variable stresses on the Earth may be likened to the straw that broke the camels back. Several years ago, my amigo from Guatemala, Rolando Benitez and I observed and discussed a diurnal rhythm of pressure variations on our barographs: Pressure maxima occurred at approximately 1000 and 2200 hours and pressure minima at roughly 0400 and 1600 hours local time. We deduced that the atmospheric pressure variations were solar-induced, and that the diurnal atmospheric pressure "tides" were primarily excited by the Sun's heating of the atmosphere. By heating the atmosphere by day and not at night relative to a fixed point on Earth, the cycle generates atmospheric tides that have periods relative to the solar day. On a latitude basis, these variations should be greater at the equator since the intensity of the Sun's rays are at a maximum there. A subsequent review of the literature (S. Hastenrath, Climate Dynamics of the Tropics, Chapter 2, "Diurnal Waves of Atmospheric Pressure According to Theory") revealed that in theory ". . There is a 12-hour pressure wave . .. . that trails from east to west in such a way that any location maxima are experienced around 10 and 22 hrs, and minima around 4 and 16 h. local time." His interesting chart on page 10 corresponded to our observations. The NASA EARTH OBSERVATORY reports that: "For over two centuries, meteorologists were puzzled by the observation that atmospheric pressure in the tropics peak at 10 a. m. and 10 p.m. nearly every day. In the late 1960's, a theory was proposed that these surface pressure variations result from waves that are generated by the Sun's heating of the upper atmosphere. The waves, called solar tides, propagate to the ground as they travel around the globe . . . " There are numerous references on the subject, such as Wikipedia's "Atmospheric Tide," and H. D. Rathgeber's Semi-Diurnal Variations of Atmospheric Pressure and of Cosmic Ray Intensity - Proceedings of the Physical Society, Melbourne, 1950. So, I conclude that yes, solar-induced pressure variations are occurring on Earth, and that it is theoretically possible that these variations may trigger a nascent earthquake. Al Hrubetz In a message dated 6/20/2010 3:05:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, gmvoeth@........... writes: You Mean Like 90% of all people who die have eaten tomatoes sometime in their life ?? All I know is Nickle is Magneto Strictive and Quartz is Piezo Electric both things will change shape in the presence of one field or the other. Now the earth is a big thing full of both those and the sun generates lots of E and B fields ??? Maybe the sun can change the dimensions of the Earth slightly based upon those ideas. Putting stresses and strains into like the straw which broke the camels back ?? geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:48 PM Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES >A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space and Science > Research Center, apparently a private concern out of Florida. The report dealt > primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs sunspot activity. > But what caught my eye was the statement: "After studying 300-plus years > of data, an SSRC study also found decreased solar activity had an 80.6% > correlation with increased volcanic activity, and 100% correlation with > essentially all of the largest U. S. earthquakes." > I had never heard of such an analogy. Is this make believe? > > Al Hrubetz > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Yes, putting variable stresses on the Earth ma= y be=20 likened to the straw that broke the camels back.
 
Several years ago, my amigo from= =20 Guatemala, Rolando Benitez and I observed and discussed a diurnal rhythm= of=20 pressure variations on our barographs:  Pressure maxima occurred at= =20 approximately 1000 and 2200 hours and pressure minima at roughly 0400 and= 1600=20 hours local time.  We deduced that the atmospheric pressure= =20 variations were solar-induced, and that the diurnal=20 atmospheric pressure "tides" were primarily excited by the= Sun's=20 heating of the atmosphere.  By heating the atmosphere by day and not= at=20 night relative to a fixed point on Earth, the cycle generates=20 atmospheric tides that have periods relative to the solar=20 day.   On a latitude basis, these variations should be= =20 greater at the equator since the intensity of the Sun's rays are at a maxi= mum=20 there.
A subsequent review of the literature (S.= =20 Hastenrath,  Climate Dynamics of the Tropics, Chapter 2, "Diurnal= Waves=20 of Atmospheric Pressure According to Theory") revealed that in theory&= nbsp;=20 ". . There is a 12-hour pressure wave . . . that trails from east to west= in=20 such a way that any location maxima are experienced around 10 and 22 hrs,= and=20 minima around 4 and 16 h. local time."  His interesting chart on= page=20 10 corresponded to our observations.
 
The NASA EARTH=20 OBSERVATORY reports that:
"For over two centuries, meteorologists were= puzzled=20 by the observation that atmospheric pressure in the tropics peak at 10 a.= m. and=20 10 p.m. nearly every day.  In the late 1960's, a theory was proposed= that=20 these surface pressure variations result from waves that are generated by= the=20 Sun's heating of the upper atmosphere.  The waves, called solar tides= ,=20 propagate to the ground as they travel around the globe . . .=20 "
 
There are numerous references on the subject,= such as=20 Wikipedia's "Atmospheric Tide," and H. D. Rathgeber's Semi-Diurnal Vari= ations=20 of Atmospheric Pressure and of Cosmic Ray Intensity - Proceedings of= the=20 Physical Society, Melbourne, 1950.
 
So, I conclude that yes, solar-induced pressur= e=20 variations are occurring on Earth, and that it is theoretically possible= that=20 these variations may trigger a nascent earthquake.
 
Al Hrubetz
 
 
In a message dated 6/20/2010 3:05:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 gmvoeth@........... writes:
You Mean=20 Like
90% of all people who die have eaten tomatoes
sometime in the= ir=20 life ??

All I know is Nickle is Magneto Strictive and
Quartz= is=20 Piezo Electric both things will change shape
in the presence of one= field=20 or the other.

Now the earth is a big thing full of both those
= and=20 the sun generates lots of E and B fields ???

Maybe the sun can ch= ange=20 the dimensions
of the Earth slightly based upon those ideas.

P= utting=20 stresses and strains into like
the straw which broke the camels back= =20 ??

geoff

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 <AHrubetz@.......>
To: <psn-l@..............>
Sent:=20 Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:48 PM
Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS.=20 EARTHQUAKES


>A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter fo= rm=20 the  Space and Science
> Research Center, apparently a priva= te=20 concern out of  Florida.  The report dealt
> primarily= with=20 prediction of agricultural  production vs sunspot activity. = =20
> But what caught my eye was the statement:  "After studying= =20 300-plus years
> of data, an SSRC study also found  decrease= d=20 solar activity had an 80.6%
> correlation with increased volcanic=  =20 activity, and 100% correlation with
> essentially all of the larg= est U.=20 S.  earthquakes."
> I had never heard of such an analogy.&nbs= p; Is=20 this  make believe?
>
> Al=20 Hrubetz
>
_____________________________________________________= _____

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email=20 PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first lin= e=20 only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.
Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 10:42:22 -0700 I often Wondered If the Ocean Tides could act as a kind of "Systolic??" Pump moving or compressing the atmosphere ahead of the oceanic bulges ?? In the world of medicine they have these funny kind of pumps which undulate similar to the ocean tidal bulge. The infuse things into your body at very fine rates ans used in the ER to pump your blood while cutting into your heart or whatever. geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:30 AM Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES > Yes, putting variable stresses on the Earth may be likened to the straw > that broke the camels back. > > Several years ago, my amigo from Guatemala, Rolando Benitez and I observed > and discussed a diurnal rhythm of pressure variations on our barographs: > Pressure maxima occurred at approximately 1000 and 2200 hours and pressure > minima at roughly 0400 and 1600 hours local time. We deduced that the > atmospheric pressure variations were solar-induced, and that the diurnal > atmospheric pressure "tides" were primarily excited by the Sun's heating of the > atmosphere. By heating the atmosphere by day and not at night relative to > a fixed point on Earth, the cycle generates atmospheric tides that have > periods relative to the solar day. On a latitude basis, these variations > should be greater at the equator since the intensity of the Sun's rays are at > a maximum there. > A subsequent review of the literature (S. Hastenrath, Climate Dynamics of > the Tropics, Chapter 2, "Diurnal Waves of Atmospheric Pressure According > to Theory") revealed that in theory ". . There is a 12-hour pressure wave . > . . that trails from east to west in such a way that any location maxima > are experienced around 10 and 22 hrs, and minima around 4 and 16 h. local > time." His interesting chart on page 10 corresponded to our observations. > > The NASA EARTH OBSERVATORY reports that: > "For over two centuries, meteorologists were puzzled by the observation > that atmospheric pressure in the tropics peak at 10 a. m. and 10 p.m. nearly > every day. In the late 1960's, a theory was proposed that these surface > pressure variations result from waves that are generated by the Sun's heating > of the upper atmosphere. The waves, called solar tides, propagate to the > ground as they travel around the globe . . . " > > There are numerous references on the subject, such as Wikipedia's > "Atmospheric Tide," and H. D. Rathgeber's Semi-Diurnal Variations of Atmospheric > Pressure and of Cosmic Ray Intensity - Proceedings of the Physical Society, > Melbourne, 1950. > > So, I conclude that yes, solar-induced pressure variations are occurring > on Earth, and that it is theoretically possible that these variations may > trigger a nascent earthquake. > > Al Hrubetz > > > > In a message dated 6/20/2010 3:05:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, > gmvoeth@........... writes: > > You Mean Like > 90% of all people who die have eaten tomatoes > sometime in their life ?? > > All I know is Nickle is Magneto Strictive and > Quartz is Piezo Electric both things will change shape > in the presence of one field or the other. > > Now the earth is a big thing full of both those > and the sun generates lots of E and B fields ??? > > Maybe the sun can change the dimensions > of the Earth slightly based upon those ideas. > > Putting stresses and strains into like > the straw which broke the camels back ?? > > geoff > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:48 PM > Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES > > >>A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space and Science >> Research Center, apparently a private concern out of Florida. The > report dealt >> primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs sunspot > activity. >> But what caught my eye was the statement: "After studying 300-plus > years >> of data, an SSRC study also found decreased solar activity had an 80.6% >> correlation with increased volcanic activity, and 100% correlation with >> essentially all of the largest U. S. earthquakes." >> I had never heard of such an analogy. Is this make believe? >> >> Al Hrubetz >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 17:51:24 +0000 Hello all, I am going to settle this. Solar activity does not increase earthquake, as the gravity of the sun does increase or decrease during solar minimun and solar max.=20 There are not even a good evidence that the moon creates earthquakes on the Earth. But the Earth creates moonquakes on the moon. The claim if this nature that the sun increases the risk of earthquakes are unfounded and not based on anything credible far as I can tell. About the Moon, http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/05/0523_050523_moonquake.html http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/facts.php Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-06-20 at 10:42 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > I often Wondered If the Ocean Tides could > act as a kind of "Systolic??" Pump moving or > compressing the atmosphere ahead of the > oceanic bulges ?? >=20 > In the world of medicine they have > these funny kind of pumps > which undulate similar to the > ocean tidal bulge. The infuse things > into your body at very fine rates > ans used in the ER to pump your blood > while cutting into your heart > or whatever. >=20 > geoff >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 10:30 AM > Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES >=20 >=20 > > Yes, putting variable stresses on the Earth may be likened to the stra= w=20 > > that broke the camels back. > >=20 > > Several years ago, my amigo from Guatemala, Rolando Benitez and I obse= rved=20 > > and discussed a diurnal rhythm of pressure variations on our barograph= s: =20 > > Pressure maxima occurred at approximately 1000 and 2200 hours and pres= sure=20 > > minima at roughly 0400 and 1600 hours local time. We deduced that the= =20 > > atmospheric pressure variations were solar-induced, and that the diurn= al =20 > > atmospheric pressure "tides" were primarily excited by the Sun's heati= ng of the=20 > > atmosphere. By heating the atmosphere by day and not at night relativ= e to=20 > > a fixed point on Earth, the cycle generates atmospheric tides that hav= e=20 > > periods relative to the solar day. On a latitude basis, these variat= ions=20 > > should be greater at the equator since the intensity of the Sun's rays= are at=20 > > a maximum there. > > A subsequent review of the literature (S. Hastenrath, Climate Dynamic= s of=20 > > the Tropics, Chapter 2, "Diurnal Waves of Atmospheric Pressure Accordi= ng=20 > > to Theory") revealed that in theory ". . There is a 12-hour pressure = wave .=20 > > . . that trails from east to west in such a way that any location maxi= ma=20 > > are experienced around 10 and 22 hrs, and minima around 4 and 16 h. lo= cal=20 > > time." His interesting chart on page 10 corresponded to our observati= ons. > >=20 > > The NASA EARTH OBSERVATORY reports that: > > "For over two centuries, meteorologists were puzzled by the observatio= n=20 > > that atmospheric pressure in the tropics peak at 10 a. m. and 10 p.m. = nearly=20 > > every day. In the late 1960's, a theory was proposed that these surfa= ce=20 > > pressure variations result from waves that are generated by the Sun's = heating=20 > > of the upper atmosphere. The waves, called solar tides, propagate to = the=20 > > ground as they travel around the globe . . . " > >=20 > > There are numerous references on the subject, such as Wikipedia's=20 > > "Atmospheric Tide," and H. D. Rathgeber's Semi-Diurnal Variations of A= tmospheric=20 > > Pressure and of Cosmic Ray Intensity - Proceedings of the Physical Soc= iety,=20 > > Melbourne, 1950. > >=20 > > So, I conclude that yes, solar-induced pressure variations are occurri= ng=20 > > on Earth, and that it is theoretically possible that these variations = may=20 > > trigger a nascent earthquake. > >=20 > > Al Hrubetz > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > In a message dated 6/20/2010 3:05:54 A.M. Central Daylight Time, =20 > > gmvoeth@........... writes: > >=20 > > You Mean Like > > 90% of all people who die have eaten tomatoes > > sometime in their life ?? > >=20 > > All I know is Nickle is Magneto Strictive and > > Quartz is Piezo Electric both things will change shape > > in the presence of one field or the other. > >=20 > > Now the earth is a big thing full of both those > > and the sun generates lots of E and B fields ??? > >=20 > > Maybe the sun can change the dimensions > > of the Earth slightly based upon those ideas. > >=20 > > Putting stresses and strains into like > > the straw which broke the camels back ?? > >=20 > > geoff > >=20 > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 4:48 PM > > Subject: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES > >=20 > >=20 > >>A friend sent me a portion of a newsletter form the Space and Science= =20 > >> Research Center, apparently a private concern out of Florida. The=20 > > report dealt=20 > >> primarily with prediction of agricultural production vs sunspot=20 > > activity. =20 > >> But what caught my eye was the statement: "After studying 300-plus=20 > > years=20 > >> of data, an SSRC study also found decreased solar activity had an 80= ..6%=20 > >> correlation with increased volcanic activity, and 100% correlation w= ith=20 > >> essentially all of the largest U. S. earthquakes." > >> I had never heard of such an analogy. Is this make believe? > >>=20 > >> Al Hrubetz > >> > > __________________________________________________________ > >=20 > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >=20 > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >=20 > > > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: If you step on the ice you normally hear it start cracking b4 it breaks From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 11:05:58 -0700 "If you step on the ice you normally hear it start cracking b4 it breaks" From The imaginary book of: The great sayings of geoff Why cant we hear the earth start cracking before it breaks ? From The imaginary book of: The great questions of geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: If you step on the ice you normally hear it start cracking b4 From: Richard Webb dwebb002@............. Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 14:20:36 -0400 We can, we just can't interpret the signals. Dick On 6/20/2010 2:05 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > "If you step on the ice you normally hear it start cracking b4 it breaks" >> From The imaginary book of: The great sayings of geoff > > Why cant we hear the earth start cracking before it breaks ? >> From The imaginary book of: The great questions of geoff > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: If you step on the ice you normally hear it start cracking b4 it breaks From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 16:58:31 -0700 Have you ever tried to do anything to enhance sensing the the precursors. I think you get signals all the time yet they are happening ouside the relm of typical understanding. ( I am not a believer in ghosts or gods or devils or the para-whatever.) Like i know the military will be sitting on answers to questions not yet raised, stored away in some classified archive. Answers to questions not yet asked by anyone. Like, I have these two electrified poles. One is positive and one is negative. If I immerse these poles into some kind of conductive medium. One will stay clean and one will get corroded. What can be done with this idea ?? Tere is an answer to a question not yet asked. That same kind of idea can be used everywhere and i think people in general just lack the imagination or you lack the ability to put everything in one place at one time to see the correlations. There ARE forces out there challenging your ability as non-military to see the big picture. To me its known as LIKE, (Counter Intelligence.) It may be stiffling every branch of science and technology. And Other areas of academia. You need a group of scientist with unlimited ability to collect all the data into one place at one time to examine the correlations. Not just from the USA but from all over the world. Or so it seems to me. geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Webb" To: Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 11:20 AM Subject: Re: If you step on the ice you normally hear it start cracking b4 it breaks > We can, we just can't interpret the signals. > Dick > > On 6/20/2010 2:05 PM, Geoffrey wrote: >> "If you step on the ice you normally hear it start cracking b4 it breaks" >>> From The imaginary book of: The great sayings of geoff >> >> Why cant we hear the earth start cracking before it breaks ? >>> From The imaginary book of: The great questions of geoff >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of >> the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Earth ring From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 17:27:05 -0700 Could such a thing be somewow related to gravity waves ? I understand there is some kind of fancy navy observatory near Flagstaff (few miles South East ?) Arizona thats looking for such stuff ?? (ARIZONA ??? US NAVY??? wheres the ocean, man???) If only they would post their data on the internet ?? Then you might see a correlation ?? geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 2:32 AM Subject: Earth ring > Hi All, > > Is there anybody who is operating a tilt meter in the last 24 hours. I > have picked up an earth ring at 20 minutes ( oSo ) followed by a strong > 35.5 minute ( oS3 ). The peculiar thing is that there has been no major earth > quake activity preceding this. Can anybody confirm this observation ? > > > Martin Page > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seismometers, Seismographs From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:36:03 +0000 Below is a link to an interesting COMMERCIAL site. Still, it is interesting to see some of the variations of these devices. = Ed. http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/seismometer.html
Below is a link to an interesting=20 COMMERCIAL site.
 
Still, it is interesting to see some of = the=20 variations of these devices.  Ed.
 
 
http://www.alib= aba.com/showroom/seismometer.html
Subject: Fw: Seismometer-Seismometer Manufacturers, From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:58:07 +0000 I don't know if the first link came through correctly so I am sending it = again. This COMMERCIAL site has some interesting Seismometers and = Seismographs. Good luck with this link. Thanks, Ed. http://www.alibaba.com/products/seismometer/------------20---------------= -.html=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com=20 Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2941 - Release Date: 06/16/10 = 06:35:00
 
I don't know if the first link = came=20 through correctly so I am sending it again. This COMMERCIAL site has = some=20 interesting Seismometers and Seismographs. Good luck with this = link. =20 Thanks, Ed.
 
 
http://www.alibaba.com/products/seismometer/------------2= 0----------------.html=20



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - = www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.437 / Virus = Database:=20 271.1.1/2941 - Release Date: 06/16/10 06:35:00
Subject: S + S retry From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 12:14:24 +0000 .....or just try going to Google and typing in.... alibaba.com = ..... then seismometers and then the next search on seismographs . Ed.
....or just try going to Google and = typing=20 in....   =20 alibaba.com      .... = then=20 seismometers and then the next search on seismographs = .. =20 Ed. 
Subject: Let the Sun Shine In From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 08:19:22 -0500 Hi Al, I've been following the discussion about the possible affects of the Sun upon earthquakes, but cannot wrap my small pea brain around that notion. Certainly, I am not expert in: geology, seismology or cosmology. However, it seems to me that any diurnal changes in barometric pressure would be variable depending upon the season of the year and angle of attack for the sun rays. I acknowledge your observations, but it seems that overall geographical effect would be infinitesimal to the big picture of the entire Earth. I also wonder about the use of the word "cause." Possibly, they actually meant "trigger." What was the "trigger" that set off the EQ. We all have probably read and read the books on Geology and Seismology and have a fundamental understanding on the basic properties that "set up" conditions for various types of quakes. To me, those conditions are pretty understandable: stress, strain, elastic rebound, mantle convection, subduction and on and on. However, what exactly is the absolute "trigger" factor for a given EQ may never be absolutely known. But, throwing a wide rope around the notion of influence from the Sun by thermal heating of the earth or atmosphere just seems too general and does not compute to me. However, as with most ALL science, it is theory and may be changed or revised some day. It is an interesting thought and should not be absolutely refuted. Never say never.......someone once said. Best Regards to the Group, Jerry
Hi Al,
 
I've been following the discussion about the possible affects of = the Sun=20 upon earthquakes, but cannot wrap my small pea brain around that = notion. =20 Certainly, I am not expert in: geology, seismology or cosmology.  = However,=20 it seems to me that any diurnal changes in barometric pressure would be = variable=20 depending upon the season of the year and angle of attack for the sun=20 rays.  I acknowledge your observations, but it seems that = overall=20 geographical effect would be infinitesimal to the big picture of the = entire=20 Earth.
 
I also wonder about the use of the word "cause."  Possibly, = they=20 actually meant "trigger."  What was the "trigger" that set off the=20 EQ. 
 
We all have probably read and read the books on Geology and = Seismology and=20 have a fundamental understanding on the basic properties that "set up"=20 conditions for various types of quakes.  To me, those conditions = are pretty=20 understandable: stress, strain, elastic rebound, mantle convection, = subduction=20 and on and on.  However, what exactly is the absolute "trigger" = factor for=20 a given EQ may never be absolutely known. 
 
But, throwing a wide rope around the notion of influence from the = Sun by=20 thermal heating of the earth or atmosphere just seems too general and = does not=20 compute to me.  However, as with most ALL science, it is theory and = may be=20 changed or revised some day.
 
It is an interesting thought and should not be absolutely = refuted. =20 Never say never.......someone once said.
 
Best Regards to the Group,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Let the Sun Shine In From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:04:52 -0500 I'm NOT an authority either ---theories I have seen suggests that there are energy rays coming from the sun (at times that are not relected by the atmosphere) that penetrate the core of the earth, possibly causing internal heating, electromotive changes, changes in fission/fusion processes going on internally, the earth's polarity and even changes in the tilt axis (wobble) of the earth (this wobble idea goes back over fifty years). Change in earth's polarity is a pretty excepted idea now, but how, isn't. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Let the Sun Shine In From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 11:01:06 -0500 Agreed, I've heard of these particles too. I believe that may be entirely possible and "may" be a contributing factor, but direct cause? Hmmmm? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Dick To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Let the Sun Shine In I'm NOT an authority either ---theories I have seen suggests that there are energy rays coming from the sun (at times that are not relected by the atmosphere) that penetrate the core of the earth, possibly causing internal heating, electromotive changes, changes in fission/fusion processes going on internally, the earth's polarity and even changes in the tilt axis (wobble) of the earth (this wobble idea goes back over fifty years). Change in earth's polarity is a pretty excepted idea now, but how, isn't.
Agreed, I've heard of these particles too.  I believe = that may=20 be entirely possible and "may" be a contributing factor, but direct = cause?  Hmmmm?
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Thomas Dick
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 = 10:04=20 AM
Subject: Re: Let the Sun Shine = In

I'm NOT an authority either ---theories I have seen = suggests=20 that there
are energy rays coming from the sun (at times that are = not=20 relected by
the atmosphere) that penetrate the core of the earth,=20 possibly  causing
internal heating, electromotive changes, = changes in=20 fission/fusion
processes going on internally, the earth's polarity = and=20 even changes in
the tilt axis (wobble) of the earth (this wobble = idea goes=20 back over
fifty years). Change in earth's polarity is a pretty = excepted=20 idea now,
but how, isn't. Subject: Re: SOLAR ACTIVITY VS. EARTHQUAKES From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 09:42:38 -0700 I just had to chime in, I think that this is a very interesting subject of what can trigger quakes. But maybe we are forgetting the elephant that is in the room. Suntides deflect the surface of the Earth by about 30cm daily at noon and midnight. I think this effect would swamp-out any of the other effects mentioned. And the moon-tides in our rocks are even larger. George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earth deformation From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 14:14:30 EDT Hi All, As I operate a tilt meter, I have an interest in the slow changes that deform the earth. I have not detected any solar gravitational effects and probably never will as I would need a much more sophisticated detector. But over the last 4 years I have noticed a general tendency for major earth quake from the Japan region to occur in the small hours of the day and the Indonesian archipelago a little later. Where as for South American events I feel tend to occur in the second half of the day. This is based on local time in England and is a very subjective and un-scientific observation. I would be interested if others in the group have a similar feeling on this. Perhaps some body has done a proper scientific analysis, say limit it to events greater than M 6.5 and no deeper than say 50 Km. It would be interesting to know whether there is any correlation or not. Martin Page
Hi All,
 
     As I operate a tilt meter, I have an = =20 interest in the slow changes that deform the earth. I have not detect= ed any=20 solar gravitational effects and probably never will as I would need a much= more=20 sophisticated detector.
But over the last 4 years I have noticed a general tendency for major= =20 earth quake from the Japan region to occur in the small hours of the= day=20 and the Indonesian archipelago a little later.  Where as for South Am= erican=20 events I feel tend to occur in the second half of the day. This is ba= sed on=20 local time in England and is a very subjective and un-scientific=20 observation.      
 I would be interested if others in the group have a=20 similar feeling on this. Perhaps some body has done a proper scientif= ic=20 analysis, say limit it to events greater than M 6.5 and no deeper than say= 50=20 Km.
It would be interesting to know whether there is any correlation or= =20 not.
 
Martin Page    
Subject: Re: Let the Sun Shine In From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:05:19 -0400 Jerry, Great response. I quite agree, in particular, with the idea that there are many forces such as micro seisms and earth tides acting on faults, which have been determined to be larger, maybe much larger, than some of the proposed trigger phenomena. Although the original post seemed to relate to longer-term trends, other posts suggested that some possible trigger phenomena should be investigated (more). For everything mentioned so far, they all seem to have been well investigated, with no *significant* positive results yet. That is, results initially claimed could not be reliably duplicated. The issue would seem to be, how much more money should be spent to investigate phenomena for which there is already strong evidence that they are not predictively correlated in any useful degree with most quakes? I am quite aware that occasionally an important scientific discovery is rejected by the scientific community when it is first proposed. However those, over time, gather increasing supportive evidence and eventually become accepted. As far as I know, the more that specific earthquake precursor phenomena have been objectively researched, the less likely it appears that they will be useful in predicting quakes, though I believe that there is a great incentive in the scientific community to discover a reliable precursor. Any scientist who did would be famous. Excellent documents on the subject with lots of references: http://scec.ess.ucla.edu/~ykagan/perspective.html http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/topics/?topicID=53&topic=Prediction A contrary opinion, including Geller's response. http://scec.ess.ucla.edu/~ykagan/tech_comment.html#B1-2 There's no question that new phenomena which might be predictive should be investigated, but if they don't prove out, it might be better to look elsewhere before continuing expenditures that might better be used for other research to reduce the damage and death toll of quakes. Regards, Brett At 09:19 AM 6/21/2010, you wrote: >Hi Al, > >I've been following the discussion about the possible affects of the >Sun upon earthquakes, but cannot wrap my small pea brain around that >notion. Certainly, I am not expert in: geology, seismology or >cosmology. However, it seems to me that any diurnal changes in >barometric pressure would be variable depending upon the season of >the year and angle of attack for the sun rays. I acknowledge your >observations, but it seems that overall geographical effect would be >infinitesimal to the big picture of the entire Earth. > >I also wonder about the use of the word "cause." Possibly, they >actually meant "trigger." What was the "trigger" that set off the EQ. > >We all have probably read and read the books on Geology and >Seismology and have a fundamental understanding on the basic >properties that "set up" conditions for various types of quakes. To >me, those conditions are pretty understandable: stress, strain, >elastic rebound, mantle convection, subduction and on and >on. However, what exactly is the absolute "trigger" factor for a >given EQ may never be absolutely known. > >But, throwing a wide rope around the notion of influence from the >Sun by thermal heating of the earth or atmosphere just seems too >general and does not compute to me. However, as with most ALL >science, it is theory and may be changed or revised some day. > >It is an interesting thought and should not be absolutely >refuted. Never say never.......someone once said. > >Best Regards to the Group, >Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: I'm Curious From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:15:20 -0500 Forgive me boys and girls, but I am curious. I wonder if anyone from this group is using the SEP horizontal sensor from the UK: http://www.mutr.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=9047 I wonder about time of delivery, performance, electronics used and etc. Since it is NOT directly of interest to the PSN Net, please reply privately to me at gpayton@............. (I know that it is primarily the one that Chris Chapman designed and promotes, but I simply cannot "build" on nor do I know anyone that could build one for me.) Additionally, I hope that Chris is out of the hospital and recovering! Jerry
Forgive me boys and girls, but I am curious.  I wonder if = anyone from=20 this group is using the SEP horizontal sensor from the UK:
http:/= /www.mutr.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=3D9047
 
I wonder about time of delivery, performance, electronics used and=20 etc.  Since it is NOT directly of interest to the PSN Net, please = reply=20 privately to me at  gpayton@.............
 
(I know that it is primarily the one that Chris Chapman designed = and=20 promotes, but I simply cannot "build" on nor do I know anyone that could = build=20 one for me.)
 
Additionally, I hope that Chris is out of the hospital and=20 recovering!
 
Jerry
Subject: I'm Curious From: "Dale Hardy" dale@........... Date: Sat, 26 Jun 2010 10:11:18 +1000 Hi Jerry, It would be of interest to me and I feel others, to keep this on the list, building a better Lehman is akin to a mouse trap :-) Regards Dale _____ From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Saturday, 26 June 2010 2:15 AM To: PSN Network List Subject: I'm Curious Forgive me boys and girls, but I am curious. I wonder if anyone from this group is using the SEP horizontal sensor from the UK: http://www.mutr.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=9047 I wonder about time of delivery, performance, electronics used and etc. Since it is NOT directly of interest to the PSN Net, please reply privately to me at gpayton@............. (I know that it is primarily the one that Chris Chapman designed and promotes, but I simply cannot "build" on nor do I know anyone that could build one for me.) Additionally, I hope that Chris is out of the hospital and recovering! Jerry

Hi = Jerry,

 

It would be of interest to me and I = feel others, to keep this on the list, building a better Lehman is akin to a = mouse trap J

 

Regards

=

Dale

 

From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of GPayton
Sent: Saturday, 26 June = 2010 2:15 AM
To: PSN Network List
Subject: I'm = Curious

 

Forgive me boys and girls, but I am curious.  I wonder if = anyone from this group is using the SEP horizontal sensor from the = UK:=

 

I wonder about time of delivery, performance, electronics used = and etc.  Since it is NOT directly of interest to the PSN Net, please = reply privately to me at  gpayton@.............

 

(I know that it is primarily the one that Chris Chapman designed = and promotes, but I simply cannot "build" on nor do I know anyone = that could build one for me.)

 

Additionally, I hope that Chris is out of the = hospital and recovering!

 

Jerry

Subject: Re: I'm Curious From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 20:14:20 -0500 OK, but I have heard from nobody that is actually using one... ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Hardy To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 7:11 PM Subject: I'm Curious Hi Jerry, It would be of interest to me and I feel others, to keep this on the list, building a better Lehman is akin to a mouse trap J Regards Dale ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Saturday, 26 June 2010 2:15 AM To: PSN Network List Subject: I'm Curious Forgive me boys and girls, but I am curious. I wonder if anyone from this group is using the SEP horizontal sensor from the UK: http://www.mutr.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=9047 I wonder about time of delivery, performance, electronics used and etc. Since it is NOT directly of interest to the PSN Net, please reply privately to me at gpayton@............. (I know that it is primarily the one that Chris Chapman designed and promotes, but I simply cannot "build" on nor do I know anyone that could build one for me.) Additionally, I hope that Chris is out of the hospital and recovering! Jerry
OK, but I have heard from nobody that is actually using = one...
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dale = Hardy
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 = 7:11 PM
Subject: I'm Curious

Hi=20 Jerry,

 

It would be = of=20 interest to me and I feel others, to keep this on the list, building a = better=20 Lehman is akin to a mouse trap J

 

Regards

Dale

 

From: psn-l-request@............... =20 [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On=20 Behalf Of GPayton
Sent: Saturday, 26 June 2010 = 2:15=20 AM
To: PSN Network=20 List
Subject: I'm=20 Curious

 

Forgive me boys and girls, but I am = curious.  I=20 wonder if anyone from this group is using the SEP horizontal sensor = from the=20 UK:=

http:/= /www.mutr.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=3D9047=

 

I wonder about time of delivery, = performance,=20 electronics used and etc.  Since it is NOT directly of interest = to the=20 PSN Net, please reply privately to me at  gpayton@.............

 

(I know that it is primarily the one that = Chris=20 Chapman designed and promotes, but I simply cannot "build" on nor do I = know=20 anyone that could build one for = me.)

 

Additionally, I hope that Chris is out of = the hospital=20 and recovering!

 

Jerry

<= /HTML> Subject: Re: I'm Curious From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:15:51 EDT Hi Jerry, Chris is still in hospital in the Critical Care Unit. He has had two major operations which would had flattened some-on half his age so we are in for the long haul. Thank you for your enquiry. Dianne
Hi Jerry,
 
 Chris is still in hospital in the Critical Care Unit. He has ha= d two=20 major operations which would had flattened some-on half his age so we are= in for=20 the long haul. Thank you for your enquiry.
 
     Dianne
 
 
Subject: Re: I'm Curious From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 12:43:06 -0600 Dianne, My very best wishes to Chris............We all miss him, and = hope for his complete and happy recovery. Please pass on our well = wishes. Ted from Idaho USA ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 12:15 PM Subject: Re: I'm Curious Hi Jerry, Chris is still in hospital in the Critical Care Unit. He has had two = major operations which would had flattened some-on half his age so we = are in for the long haul. Thank you for your enquiry. Dianne
Dianne,  My very best wishes to Chris............We all miss = him, and=20 hope for his complete and happy recovery.   Please pass on our = well=20 wishes.
 
Ted from Idaho USA
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 = 12:15=20 PM
Subject: Re: I'm Curious

Hi Jerry,
 
 Chris is still in hospital in the Critical Care Unit. He = has had=20 two major operations which would had flattened some-on half his age so = we are=20 in for the long haul. Thank you for your enquiry.
 
     Dianne
 
 
 Subject: Re: I'm Curious From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:34:56 -0500 Thank you SO much for the update. PLEASE, give him my best wishes as well as those in the amateur seismic group. Hang in there Chris & God Bless you! Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 1:15 PM Subject: Re: I'm Curious Hi Jerry, Chris is still in hospital in the Critical Care Unit. He has had two major operations which would had flattened some-on half his age so we are in for the long haul. Thank you for your enquiry. Dianne
Thank you SO much for the = update. =20 PLEASE, give him my best wishes as well as those in the amateur seismic=20 group.
Hang in = there Chris=20 & God Bless you!
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 = 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: I'm Curious

Hi Jerry,
 
 Chris is still in hospital in the Critical Care Unit. He = has had=20 two major operations which would had flattened some-on half his age so = we are=20 in for the long haul. Thank you for your enquiry.
 
     Dianne
 
 
 Subject: Re: I'm Curious From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 14:34:56 -0500 Thank you SO much for the update. PLEASE, give him my best wishes as well as those in the amateur seismic group. Hang in there Chris & God Bless you! Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 1:15 PM Subject: Re: I'm Curious Hi Jerry, Chris is still in hospital in the Critical Care Unit. He has had two major operations which would had flattened some-on half his age so we are in for the long haul. Thank you for your enquiry. Dianne
Thank you SO much for the = update. =20 PLEASE, give him my best wishes as well as those in the amateur seismic=20 group.
Hang in = there Chris=20 & God Bless you!
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 = 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: I'm Curious

Hi Jerry,
 
 Chris is still in hospital in the Critical Care Unit. He = has had=20 two major operations which would had flattened some-on half his age so = we are=20 in for the long haul. Thank you for your enquiry.
 
     Dianne
 
 
 Subject: Hello Mr. Hammond From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:30:17 -0700 Mr. Hammond, Could you please email to me an attachment of the following event recorded by yourself 3.3 102km from Aptos CA (ATZ), C: OFFSHORE NORTHERN CALIFORNIA Which has not been filtered or Integrated ? Meaning raw data exactly as recorded ? I'm just interested in this data to compare noise levels with my own station. This can be just the raw data alone, along with the sample rate and not any times. Or, a raw, unaltered, PSN type 4 file. Also, Are you near the Ocean ? Are you on Bedrock or some kind of fill ? Are you doing any hardware filtering ? Is your geophone within 100 ft of a roadway ? Any details regarding ground noise like close ground situated air conditioners within 1000ft of the geophone. Although I have no idea what I will learn from this I will share with you ( if you are interested) anything I see in the (raw) data. I'm trying to understand noises encountered at other locations. Also, What hardware are you using ? Thanks for any replies? geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Zero Length Spring From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 03:36:47 EDT Hi, For those who might be contemplating building a vertical seismometer, I have some information on common and readily available Zero Length Spring. This has been used to make a reasonably compact vertical broadband seismometer. Martin
Hi, 
 
  For those who might be contemplating building a vertical=20 seismometer, I have some information on common and readily available Zero= Length=20 Spring.  This has been used to make a reasonably compact vertical bro= adband=20 seismometer.
 
Martin
Subject: Re: Zero Length Spring From: Mauro Mariotti mariotti@......... Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 10:08:02 +0200 it is always nice to read something regarding ZL Springs. I am interested. regards mauro Il 30/06/2010 09:36, Tangazazen@....... ha scritto: > Hi, > > For those who might be contemplating building a vertical seismometer, I > have some information on common and readily available Zero Length Spring. > This has been used to make a reasonably compact vertical broadband > seismometer. > > Martin > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Zero Length Spring From: "Daryl P. Dacko" mycrump@........ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 06:11:54 -0400 On 6/30/2010 3:36 AM, Tangazazen@....... wrote: > Hi, > For those who might be contemplating building a vertical > seismometer, I have some information on common and readily available > Zero Length Spring. This has been used to make a reasonably compact > vertical broadband seismometer. > Martin Martin, Information on zero length springs is always welcome here ! Thanks, Daryl On 6/30/2010 3:36 AM, Tangazazen@....... wrote:
Hi, 
 
  For those who might be contemplating building a vertical seismometer, I have some information on common and readily available Zero Length Spring.  This has been used to make a reasonably compact vertical broadband seismometer.
 
Martin
 Martin,

Information on zero length springs is always welcome here !

Thanks,
Daryl