Subject: Transfer Files Using SDHC to USB adaptor with a problem From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:38:16 +0000 Hey Guys, Do you transfer files using an HDSC card USB adaptor ? Do you ever use these USB 2 SDHC adaptors to transfer files and had one that just wont work right because of a stuck READ ONLY problem ? I bought this TARGUS usb HDSD CARD adaptor at walmart (or target) and it would not work right. Nothing Id do would make the card writable. Not taping the switch on the card or anything else easy. After some research on the internet I found it was not the fault of the HDSD card but the little USB adaptor thing. There is a switch inside the adaptor case which contacts with ground to enable writing the card. This switch is simple and activated by the slider switch on the card. If the MFGR had used a microswitch within the adaptor it might have cost them more to build but would be reliable. Instead of a microswitch, its like a simple beryllium copper spring thing. I opened up this case and ripped out the switch with needle nose pliers then used a soldering iron to solder the switch connection to the shield ground. Now you can not write protect the cards in this adaptor even if you want to. It would be possible to build your own more reliable switch to the outside of the case. Simply shorting the option to ground. Now I am able to use any SD like card to transfer files by USB and not worry about this problem. Just thought Id let you know it's a bit hard but R/W can be set to W permanently rather than buying another reader adaptor simply with a spot of solder. Ripping out the switch was risky since force was necessary. I think the switch might have been ok to stay in place. China made things today are like the Japanese things of yesterday. Lacking quality. Toxicology Note: Beryllium has an interesting toxic quality, if they put it in copper jacketed bullets, human wounds created by such a bullet would not heal unless the contaminated flesh is first cut away. For some reason, this element stops the bodies ability to heal injuries. We seem to be made of regular star stuff and not supernova stuff since all the heavy metals over iron ( if I remember right ) are poisons to humans. Best Regards; geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Information Pleae From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 21:58:57 -0500 I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List, please: 1) Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest EQ" list running slow, behind 1-2 two hours? 2) I would like to monitor a nearby USArray EarthScope instrument, specifically TA.WHTX. I've located information about it at ( www.iris.washington.edy/mda/TA/WHTX ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces (as near real-time as possible.) Anyone able to tell me HOW? Thanks, Jerry
I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List, = please:
 
1)    Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest EQ" = list=20 running slow, behind 1-2 two hours?
 
2)    I would like to monitor a nearby USArray = EarthScope=20 instrument, specifically TA.WHTX.  I've located information about = it at (=20 www.iris.washington.e= dy/mda/TA/WHTX=20 ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces (as = near=20 real-time as possible.)  Anyone able to tell me HOW?
 
Thanks,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Information Pleae From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 21:10:44 -0600 Hi Jerry, I know for a fact that the usgs reporting of Idaho events is = often delayed. Normally, the day after or two days after........I have = seen a delay of four days. I have no idea why this is. I would guess if it was a large, news worthy earthquake, it would be = reported within a few minutes. But the 2'sM, I record, are reported = much after the fact. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: PSN Network List=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:58 PM Subject: Information Pleae I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List, please: 1) Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest EQ" list running slow, = behind 1-2 two hours? 2) I would like to monitor a nearby USArray EarthScope instrument, = specifically TA.WHTX. I've located information about it at ( = www.iris.washington.edy/mda/TA/WHTX ), but have no clue as how I might = be able to see the daily traces (as near real-time as possible.) Anyone = able to tell me HOW?=20 Thanks, Jerry
Hi Jerry,   I know for a fact = that the=20 usgs reporting of Idaho events is often delayed.   Normally, = the day=20 after or two days after........I have seen a delay of four = days.   I=20 have no idea why this is.
I would guess if it was a large, news = worthy=20 earthquake, it would be reported within a few minutes.   But = the 2'sM,=20  I record, are reported much after the fact.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton=20
To: PSN Network List
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 = 8:58=20 PM
Subject: Information = Pleae

I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List,=20 please:
 
1)    Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest EQ" = list=20 running slow, behind 1-2 two hours?
 
2)    I would like to monitor a nearby USArray = EarthScope=20 instrument, specifically TA.WHTX.  I've located information about = it at (=20 www.iris.washington.e= dy/mda/TA/WHTX=20 ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces (as = near=20 real-time as possible.)  Anyone able to tell me HOW?
 
Thanks,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Information Pleae From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 22:17:09 -0500 I guess you know about the USGS <2.5 site: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Quakes/quakes_all.php It has the smaller EQ'S and seems faster. lately. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Ted Channel To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:10 PM Subject: Re: Information Pleae Hi Jerry, I know for a fact that the usgs reporting of Idaho events is often delayed. Normally, the day after or two days after........I have seen a delay of four days. I have no idea why this is. I would guess if it was a large, news worthy earthquake, it would be reported within a few minutes. But the 2'sM, I record, are reported much after the fact. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: GPayton To: PSN Network List Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 8:58 PM Subject: Information Pleae I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List, please: 1) Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest EQ" list running slow, behind 1-2 two hours? 2) I would like to monitor a nearby USArray EarthScope instrument, specifically TA.WHTX. I've located information about it at ( www.iris.washington.edy/mda/TA/WHTX ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces (as near real-time as possible.) Anyone able to tell me HOW? Thanks, Jerry
I guess you know about the USGS <2.5 site: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Quakes/quakes= _all.php
 
It has the smaller EQ'S and seems faster. lately.
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ted=20 Channel
To: psnlist@.............. =
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 = 10:10=20 PM
Subject: Re: Information = Pleae

Hi Jerry,   I know for a = fact that the=20 usgs reporting of Idaho events is often delayed.   Normally, = the day=20 after or two days after........I have seen a delay of four = days.   I=20 have no idea why this is.
I would guess if it was a large, news = worthy=20 earthquake, it would be reported within a few minutes.   But = the=20 2'sM,  I record, are reported much after the fact.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, = 2010 8:58=20 PM
Subject: Information = Pleae

I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List,=20 please:
 
1)    Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest = EQ" list=20 running slow, behind 1-2 two hours?
 
2)    I would like to monitor a nearby USArray=20 EarthScope instrument, specifically TA.WHTX.  I've located = information=20 about it at ( www.iris.washington.e= dy/mda/TA/WHTX=20 ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces = (as near=20 real-time as possible.)  Anyone able to tell me HOW?
 
Thanks,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Information Pleae From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 20:42:24 -0700 Jerry, The real time images for station WHTX are located at http://usarray.seis.sc.edu/station.html?network=3DTA&station=3DWHTX You can look at anyt USArray station monitor from the link at http://usarray.seis.sc.edu/index.html Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: PSN Network List=20 Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 7:58 PM Subject: Information Pleae I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List, please: 1) Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest EQ" list running slow, = behind 1-2 two hours? 2) I would like to monitor a nearby USArray EarthScope instrument, = specifically TA.WHTX. I've located information about it at ( = www.iris.washington.edy/mda/TA/WHTX ), but have no clue as how I might = be able to see the daily traces (as near real-time as possible.) Anyone = able to tell me HOW?=20 Thanks, Jerry
Jerry,
The real time images for station WHTX are = located=20 at
http://usarray.seis.sc.edu/station.html?network=3DTA&station=3D= WHTX
You can look at anyt USArray station monitor = from the link=20 at
http://usarray.seis.sc.edu= /index.html
Kay Wyatt
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 = 7:58=20 PM
Subject: Information = Pleae

I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List,=20 please:
 
1)    Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest EQ" = list=20 running slow, behind 1-2 two hours?
 
2)    I would like to monitor a nearby USArray = EarthScope=20 instrument, specifically TA.WHTX.  I've located information about = it at (=20 www.iris.washington.e= dy/mda/TA/WHTX=20 ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces (as = near=20 real-time as possible.)  Anyone able to tell me HOW?
 
Thanks,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Information Pleae From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 22:53:56 -0500 Excellent. Thank You. By "Vertical Ground Motion" does that mean only the vertical and not east/north shown? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wyatt To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:42 PM Subject: Re: Information Pleae Jerry, The real time images for station WHTX are located at http://usarray.seis.sc.edu/station.html?network=TA&station=WHTX You can look at anyt USArray station monitor from the link at http://usarray.seis.sc.edu/index.html Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message ----- From: GPayton To: PSN Network List Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 7:58 PM Subject: Information Pleae I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List, please: 1) Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest EQ" list running slow, behind 1-2 two hours? 2) I would like to monitor a nearby USArray EarthScope instrument, specifically TA.WHTX. I've located information about it at ( www.iris.washington.edy/mda/TA/WHTX ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces (as near real-time as possible.) Anyone able to tell me HOW? Thanks, Jerry
Excellent.  Thank You.
 
By "Vertical Ground Motion" does that mean only the vertical and = not=20 east/north shown?
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kay Wyatt=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 = 10:42=20 PM
Subject: Re: Information = Pleae

Jerry,
The real time images for station WHTX are = located=20 at
http://usarray.seis.sc.edu/station.html?network=3DTA&station=3D= WHTX
You can look at anyt USArray station monitor = from the=20 link at
http://usarray.seis.sc.edu= /index.html
Kay Wyatt
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, = 2010 7:58=20 PM
Subject: Information = Pleae

I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List,=20 please:
 
1)    Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest = EQ" list=20 running slow, behind 1-2 two hours?
 
2)    I would like to monitor a nearby USArray=20 EarthScope instrument, specifically TA.WHTX.  I've located = information=20 about it at ( www.iris.washington.e= dy/mda/TA/WHTX=20 ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces = (as near=20 real-time as possible.)  Anyone able to tell me HOW?
 
Thanks,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Information Pleae From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 22:57:19 -0500 Disregard, Kay. I see how it works now. Thank you again. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wyatt To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 10:42 PM Subject: Re: Information Pleae Jerry, The real time images for station WHTX are located at http://usarray.seis.sc.edu/station.html?network=TA&station=WHTX You can look at anyt USArray station monitor from the link at http://usarray.seis.sc.edu/index.html Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message ----- From: GPayton To: PSN Network List Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 7:58 PM Subject: Information Pleae I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List, please: 1) Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest EQ" list running slow, behind 1-2 two hours? 2) I would like to monitor a nearby USArray EarthScope instrument, specifically TA.WHTX. I've located information about it at ( www.iris.washington.edy/mda/TA/WHTX ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces (as near real-time as possible.) Anyone able to tell me HOW? Thanks, Jerry
Disregard, Kay.  I see how it works now.  Thank you = again.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kay Wyatt=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2010 = 10:42=20 PM
Subject: Re: Information = Pleae

Jerry,
The real time images for station WHTX are = located=20 at
http://usarray.seis.sc.edu/station.html?network=3DTA&station=3D= WHTX
You can look at anyt USArray station monitor = from the=20 link at
http://usarray.seis.sc.edu= /index.html
Kay Wyatt
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, = 2010 7:58=20 PM
Subject: Information = Pleae

I have a couple of questions for you "veterans" in the List,=20 please:
 
1)    Is my imagination or is the USGS "Latest = EQ" list=20 running slow, behind 1-2 two hours?
 
2)    I would like to monitor a nearby USArray=20 EarthScope instrument, specifically TA.WHTX.  I've located = information=20 about it at ( www.iris.washington.e= dy/mda/TA/WHTX=20 ), but have no clue as how I might be able to see the daily traces = (as near=20 real-time as possible.)  Anyone able to tell me HOW?
 
Thanks,
Jerry
Subject: Guy Arkansas From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2010 09:41:40 -0500 This doesn't rival activity along the San Andres out west but there is a lot of "something" in Arkansas that supposedly is NOT associated with the New Madrid. This started about a year ago. Here is the last two days: map 2.0 2010/10/08 23:41:12 35.302N 92.309W 5.1 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/08 23:29:40 35.304N 92.320W 3.7 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 23:09:21 35.305N 92.321W 3.7 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.6 2010/10/08 22:24:59 35.304N 92.318W 4.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/08 20:33:46 35.296N 92.302W 5.3 4 km ( 3 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 16:05:00 35.307N 92.320W 3.3 2 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.2 2010/10/08 14:50:31 35.306N 92.328W 3.0 2 km ( 1 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.2 2010/10/08 14:49:59 35.298N 92.322W 4.7 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 10:57:40 35.303N 92.321W 3.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.6 2010/10/08 08:55:43 35.305N 92.310W 4.5 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.9 2010/10/08 06:45:49 35.297N 92.304W 5.3 4 km ( 3 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 2.0 2010/10/08 05:05:56 35.299N 92.299W 4.9 4 km ( 3 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.6 2010/10/08 04:44:52 35.306N 92.319W 3.9 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 01:52:26 35.299N 92.319W 3.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.5 2010/10/08 01:06:55 35.301N 92.321W 4.3 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/07 21:24:48 35.337N 92.300W 4.4 3 km ( 2 mi) ENE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/07 19:14:17 35.339N 92.291W 5.6 4 km ( 3 mi) ENE of Guy, AR map 2.5 2010/10/07 18:20:34 35.309N 92.320W 4.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.1 2010/10/07 06:17:13 35.303N 92.320W 3.8 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/07 04:42:51 35.304N 92.320W 4.0 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.4 2010/10/07 04:26:32 35.296N 92.322W 5.3 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.2 2010/10/07 03:00:24 35.303N 92.322W 3.6 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR I got a good record on the mag three which occurred at 4:14 this day. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Winquake From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2010 09:53:30 -0500 I lost my earthquake computer yesterday. In bringing up my backup (well not a backup- I was in the process of getting a newer computer ready to bring on line), I find that Winquake isn't retaining settings found under view and phases...even if you don't turn Winquake off, (just drop it to tool bar) .... this is a new Winquake .... anyone got ideas? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Guy Arkansas From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:34:16 -0500 Hi Thomas, I "googled" Guy, Arkansas and read a lot of information about the many EQ's there. There has been similar activity near Jones, OK, just outside of OKC, but not as frequent. There has been some speculation as to whether gas well fracting may promote seismic activity. Of course, the gas well people deny that. I don't know if such drilling activity is gong on in that part of Arkansas or not. Regards, Jerry
Hi Thomas,
 
I "googled" Guy, Arkansas and read a lot of = information=20 about the many EQ's there.  There has been similar activity = near=20 Jones, OK, just outside of OKC, but not as frequent.
 
There has been some speculation as to whether gas well fracting may = promote=20 seismic activity.  Of course, the gas well people deny = that.   I=20 don't know if such drilling activity is gong on in that part of = Arkansas or=20 not.
 
Regards,
Jerry
Subject: RE: Guy Arkansas From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 08:50:02 -0700 Could this be geothermal? This looks a lot like the area north of Napa in California where there is a geothermal hot springs. Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos California -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 7:42 AM To: psnlist@.............. Cc: Sarah A. Holland; David Dick Subject: Guy Arkansas This doesn't rival activity along the San Andres out west but there is a lot of "something" in Arkansas that supposedly is NOT associated with the New Madrid. This started about a year ago. Here is the last two days: map 2.0 2010/10/08 23:41:12 35.302N 92.309W 5.1 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/08 23:29:40 35.304N 92.320W 3.7 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 23:09:21 35.305N 92.321W 3.7 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.6 2010/10/08 22:24:59 35.304N 92.318W 4.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/08 20:33:46 35.296N 92.302W 5.3 4 km ( 3 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 16:05:00 35.307N 92.320W 3.3 2 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.2 2010/10/08 14:50:31 35.306N 92.328W 3.0 2 km ( 1 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.2 2010/10/08 14:49:59 35.298N 92.322W 4.7 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 10:57:40 35.303N 92.321W 3.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.6 2010/10/08 08:55:43 35.305N 92.310W 4.5 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.9 2010/10/08 06:45:49 35.297N 92.304W 5.3 4 km ( 3 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 2.0 2010/10/08 05:05:56 35.299N 92.299W 4.9 4 km ( 3 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.6 2010/10/08 04:44:52 35.306N 92.319W 3.9 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 01:52:26 35.299N 92.319W 3.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.5 2010/10/08 01:06:55 35.301N 92.321W 4.3 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/07 21:24:48 35.337N 92.300W 4.4 3 km ( 2 mi) ENE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/07 19:14:17 35.339N 92.291W 5.6 4 km ( 3 mi) ENE of Guy, AR map 2.5 2010/10/07 18:20:34 35.309N 92.320W 4.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.1 2010/10/07 06:17:13 35.303N 92.320W 3.8 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/07 04:42:51 35.304N 92.320W 4.0 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.4 2010/10/07 04:26:32 35.296N 92.322W 5.3 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.2 2010/10/07 03:00:24 35.303N 92.322W 3.6 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR I got a good record on the mag three which occurred at 4:14 this day. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: Guy Arkansas From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 08:50:02 -0700 Could this be geothermal? This looks a lot like the area north of Napa in California where there is a geothermal hot springs. Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos California -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 7:42 AM To: psnlist@.............. Cc: Sarah A. Holland; David Dick Subject: Guy Arkansas This doesn't rival activity along the San Andres out west but there is a lot of "something" in Arkansas that supposedly is NOT associated with the New Madrid. This started about a year ago. Here is the last two days: map 2.0 2010/10/08 23:41:12 35.302N 92.309W 5.1 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/08 23:29:40 35.304N 92.320W 3.7 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 23:09:21 35.305N 92.321W 3.7 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.6 2010/10/08 22:24:59 35.304N 92.318W 4.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/08 20:33:46 35.296N 92.302W 5.3 4 km ( 3 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 16:05:00 35.307N 92.320W 3.3 2 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.2 2010/10/08 14:50:31 35.306N 92.328W 3.0 2 km ( 1 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.2 2010/10/08 14:49:59 35.298N 92.322W 4.7 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 10:57:40 35.303N 92.321W 3.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.6 2010/10/08 08:55:43 35.305N 92.310W 4.5 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.9 2010/10/08 06:45:49 35.297N 92.304W 5.3 4 km ( 3 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 2.0 2010/10/08 05:05:56 35.299N 92.299W 4.9 4 km ( 3 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.6 2010/10/08 04:44:52 35.306N 92.319W 3.9 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/08 01:52:26 35.299N 92.319W 3.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.5 2010/10/08 01:06:55 35.301N 92.321W 4.3 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/07 21:24:48 35.337N 92.300W 4.4 3 km ( 2 mi) ENE of Guy, AR map 1.7 2010/10/07 19:14:17 35.339N 92.291W 5.6 4 km ( 3 mi) ENE of Guy, AR map 2.5 2010/10/07 18:20:34 35.309N 92.320W 4.4 3 km ( 2 mi) SE of Guy, AR map 1.1 2010/10/07 06:17:13 35.303N 92.320W 3.8 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.8 2010/10/07 04:42:51 35.304N 92.320W 4.0 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.4 2010/10/07 04:26:32 35.296N 92.322W 5.3 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR map 1.2 2010/10/07 03:00:24 35.303N 92.322W 3.6 3 km ( 2 mi) SSE of Guy, AR I got a good record on the mag three which occurred at 4:14 this day. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Guy Arkansas From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2010 11:20:36 -0500 Stephen Hammond wrote: > Could this be geothermal? This looks a lot like the area north of Napa > in California where there is a geothermal hot springs. > Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos California > Yes, it is possible, Guy is only about 60 miles from Hot Springs AR. I also heard comment last year blaming this activity on drilling in SW Arkansas and Oklahoma and then the Gulf mess. Part of this "new fault" supposedly extends into a large lake in that area and a major gas line crosses the area. About a month ago, there was an incident of eight quakes along the New Madrid (Tiptonville area) in one day as well. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Oklahoma City EQs From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 12:09:21 -0700 Jerry, You bring up a topic that I am very curious about. Before we retired to = Oregon, we lived in Oklahoma for many years. I've still got many family = members who live in East Oklahoma City and they are regularly feeling = earthquakes. If you click on the link at http://keokuk.ogs.ou.edu/scripts/maps/recenteqs You will see a map of Oklahoma and see the "hot" spot of earthquakes = east of OKCity. I am regularly on the Oklahoma Geological Survey = website and have not read much information regarding these quakes. If = you look at the frequency of earthquakes at http://www.okgeosurvey1.gov/pages/earthquakes/information.php#FAQ You will see a spike in 2010. they still report this as "appears = consistent with normal background seismicity". If anybody has any information on these earthquakes I would be most = interested. Or if you can provide a link to any reports on the web = about this increase in seismicity that would be great. Kay Wyatt =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: psnlist@................. Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Guy Arkansas Hi Thomas, I "googled" Guy, Arkansas and read a lot of information about the many = EQ's there. There has been similar activity near Jones, OK, just = outside of OKC, but not as frequent. There has been some speculation as to whether gas well fracting may = promote seismic activity. Of course, the gas well people deny that. I = don't know if such drilling activity is gong on in that part of Arkansas = or not. Regards, Jerry
Jerry,
 
You bring up a topic that I am very curious = about. =20 Before we retired to Oregon, we lived in Oklahoma for many years.  = I've=20 still got many family members who live in East Oklahoma City and they = are=20 regularly feeling earthquakes.  If you click on the link = at
http://keokuk.og= s.ou.edu/scripts/maps/recenteqs
You will see a map of Oklahoma and see the "hot" = spot of=20 earthquakes east of OKCity.  I am regularly on the Oklahoma = Geological=20 Survey website and have not read much information regarding these = quakes. =20 If you look at the frequency of earthquakes at
http://www.okgeosurvey1.gov/pages/earthquakes/information.php#FAQ
You will see a spike in 2010.  they still = report this=20 as "appears consistent with normal background seismicity".
 
If anybody has any information on these = earthquakes I=20 would be most interested.  Or if you can provide a link to any = reports on=20 the web about this increase in seismicity that would be = great.
 
Kay Wyatt
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton=20
Sent: Saturday, October 09, = 2010 8:34=20 AM
Subject: Re: Guy Arkansas

Hi Thomas,
 
I "googled" Guy, Arkansas and read a lot of = information=20 about the many EQ's there.  There has been similar = activity near=20 Jones, OK, just outside of OKC, but not as frequent.
 
There has been some speculation as to whether gas well fracting = may=20 promote seismic activity.  Of course, the gas well people deny=20 that.   I don't know if such drilling activity is gong = on in=20 that part of Arkansas or not.
 
Regards,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Oklahoma City EQs From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 14:25:59 -0500 No, Kay, I wish that I could help. I'll keep you in mind, if I run across anything. awhile back I did see something mentioned on TV about those and the Arkansas activity, but I do not remember if it was the Science Channel, National Geographic or what. They only mentioned the increased activity and did not elaborate. WOW! I did not realize that the Oklahoma and the Arkansas events were so frequent. I do not keep up with the smaller EQ's and miss a lot, apparently. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wyatt To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 2:09 PM Subject: Oklahoma City EQs Jerry, You bring up a topic that I am very curious about. Before we retired to Oregon, we lived in Oklahoma for many years. I've still got many family members who live in East Oklahoma City and they are regularly feeling earthquakes. If you click on the link at http://keokuk.ogs.ou.edu/scripts/maps/recenteqs You will see a map of Oklahoma and see the "hot" spot of earthquakes east of OKCity. I am regularly on the Oklahoma Geological Survey website and have not read much information regarding these quakes. If you look at the frequency of earthquakes at http://www.okgeosurvey1.gov/pages/earthquakes/information.php#FAQ You will see a spike in 2010. they still report this as "appears consistent with normal background seismicity". If anybody has any information on these earthquakes I would be most interested. Or if you can provide a link to any reports on the web about this increase in seismicity that would be great. Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message ----- From: GPayton To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2010 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Guy Arkansas Hi Thomas, I "googled" Guy, Arkansas and read a lot of information about the many EQ's there. There has been similar activity near Jones, OK, just outside of OKC, but not as frequent. There has been some speculation as to whether gas well fracting may promote seismic activity. Of course, the gas well people deny that. I don't know if such drilling activity is gong on in that part of Arkansas or not. Regards, Jerry
No, Kay, I wish that I could help.  I'll keep you in mind, if = I run=20 across anything.  awhile back I did see something mentioned on TV = about=20 those and the Arkansas activity, but I do not remember if it was the = Science=20 Channel, National Geographic or what.  They only mentioned the = increased=20 activity and did not elaborate.
 
WOW!  I did not realize that the Oklahoma and the Arkansas = events were=20 so frequent.  I do not keep up with the smaller EQ's and miss a = lot,=20 apparently.
 
Regards,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kay Wyatt=20
Sent: Saturday, October 09, = 2010 2:09=20 PM
Subject: Oklahoma City = EQs

Jerry,
 
You bring up a topic that I am very curious = about. =20 Before we retired to Oregon, we lived in Oklahoma for many = years.  I've=20 still got many family members who live in East Oklahoma City and they = are=20 regularly feeling earthquakes.  If you click on the link = at
http://keokuk.og= s.ou.edu/scripts/maps/recenteqs
You will see a map of Oklahoma and see the = "hot" spot of=20 earthquakes east of OKCity.  I am regularly on the Oklahoma = Geological=20 Survey website and have not read much information regarding these=20 quakes.  If you look at the frequency of earthquakes = at
http://www.okgeosurvey1.gov/pages/earthquakes/information.php#FAQ
You will see a spike in 2010.  they still = report=20 this as "appears consistent with normal background = seismicity".
 
If anybody has any information on these = earthquakes I=20 would be most interested.  Or if you can provide a link to any = reports on=20 the web about this increase in seismicity that would be=20 great.
 
Kay Wyatt
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton
Sent: Saturday, October 09, = 2010 8:34=20 AM
Subject: Re: Guy = Arkansas

Hi Thomas,
 
I "googled" Guy, Arkansas and read a lot of=20 information about the many EQ's there.  There has been = similar=20 activity near Jones, OK, just outside of OKC, but not as = frequent.
 
There has been some speculation as to whether gas well fracting = may=20 promote seismic activity.  Of course, the gas well people deny=20 that.   I don't know if such drilling activity is = gong on in=20 that part of Arkansas or not.
 
Regards,
Jerry
Subject: Guy, AR From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 10:04:33 -0500 Six more quakes occurred on this date of 10/10/10 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Arkansas From: "Randall Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:54:27 -0500 Hi, I am a little out of date but I was stationed in Jacksonville, AR for 6 years about 30 years ago. I flew over this area almost daily at low levels of 300 to 500 feet. I don't remember any significant oil or gas operations in the area. Hot Springs is about 75 miles SW in quite different country. The springs to the north and west are cold. Land in the guy area is quite gentle with some farming and pasture and easily allowed flying 300 feet at 270 mph. Hot Springs is quite rugged and steep in the Ouachita Mountain range. One major incident of the area was the explosion of a Titan Missile silo in 1980. Otherwise there were a couple of quakes in the northeast corner of the state that made news. By coincidence, one of these happened to coincide with publication of new flight documents where the compass variation and just been adjusted and the runway direction changed from 24 to 25 and so made for a good story to an unsuspecting listener. Randy

Hi,

 

I am a little out of date but I was stationed in = Jacksonville, AR for 6 years about 30 years ago.  I flew over this area almost daily = at low levels of 300 to 500 feet.  I don’t remember any significant = oil or gas operations in the area.  Hot Springs is about 75 miles SW in quite different country.  The springs to the north and west are cold.  Land in = the guy area is quite gentle with some farming and pasture and easily = allowed flying 300 feet at 270 mph.  Hot Springs = is quite rugged and steep in the Ouachita Mountain = range.  One major incident of the area was the explosion of a Titan Missile silo in 1980.  Otherwise there were a couple of quakes in the northeast = corner of the state that made news.  By coincidence, one of these happened to coincide with publication of new flight documents where the compass = variation and just been adjusted and the runway direction changed from 24 to 25 = and so made for a good story to an unsuspecting listener.  =

 

Randy

Subject: Re: Arkansas From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 20:16:15 -0500 > > Randy > I am scheduled to go to Lafayette, LA and then come back through Branson, MO later this month. That will take me within five miles of Guy. I will look around. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Guy Arkansas From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 09:30:03 -0500 In the last hour....a 3.8 mag quake and a 2.5 in this area. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Guy Arkansas From: "Randall Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:30:00 -0500 Thomas, That can be an interesting drive if you have not done it. There is the Crater of Diamonds in SW AR where an old volcano core now leaves diamonds laying around on the ground. Then Hot Springs and the mountains around it. In northern AR I highly recommend Blanchard Springs Caverns if you don't stop for anything else. I rate it as about the best cavern I have been in and well worth a rest stop. The area was recently developed so it did not face the vandalism and commercial impacts seen in many other caverns opened earlier in the century. You will need a break anyway as roads between Guy and Branson will probably take quite some time longer to drive than you would expect. This is a great time of year to make the trip and the waiting line at the cavern should be reasonable. Randy

Thomas,

 

That can be an interesting drive if you have not done it.  There is the Crater of Diamonds in SW AR where an old volcano core now leaves diamonds laying around on the = ground.  Then Hot Springs and the mountains around it.  In northern AR I highly recommend Blanchard Springs Caverns if you don’t stop for anything = else.  I rate it as about the best cavern I have been in and well worth a rest = stop.  The area was recently developed so it did not face the vandalism and = commercial impacts seen in many other caverns opened earlier in the century.  = You will need a break anyway as roads between Guy and Branson will probably = take quite some time longer to drive than you would expect.  This is a = great time of year to make the trip and the waiting line at the cavern should = be reasonable.

 

Randy

Subject: Latest EQ at GVA From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 04:48:59 +0000 Hello PSN Comrads; heres the latest quake from GVA I also send the PSN file to the PSN event server. I will post these from time to time for anyone to look at. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/LATEST.GIF Other image types are: JPG BMP PNG LATEST.{All Capital Letters in the file name} These web addresses are case sensitive. All should be identical, simply put the one you want in place of GIF they are all identical. I will try not to delete these ever, yet I have been known to do so in the past. geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Period of seismic units From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 09:32:41 -0500 I asked Larry about this and he wanted me to post it here. I think he was trying to get rid of me. It probably shows how little I know and that I am missing something. This question came out of the activity in the Guy area which is about 500 miles west of me as well as the New Madrid system which is closer. It seems the records are better on the 2-4 Hz units. Here was my question; > It is about this geophone vs lehman or other long period instruments. In > California you have many local quakes. These quakes have frequencies > higher than long distance quakes. What is the logic of (just/or > popularity of) long > period instruments out there? What precipitated this trend? The 1-5 Hz > units should be better on local events -- which you have a lot. There are many California quakes and there is the activity in Washington State and Yellowstone but you never see local seismic detectors being posted with periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except possibly tchannel. Shouldn't these units help differentiate human noises like quarry activity from smaller local earthquake activity? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Period of seismic units From: Len Polucci lenpolucci@......... Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 13:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Great, Great question! Since I have no idea and have wondered in the past..= I'd =0Alove to see some answers!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________= ____=0AFrom: Thomas Dick =0ATo: psnlist@seismic= net.com=0ASent: Fri, October 15, 2010 10:32:41 AM=0ASubject: Period of seis= mic units=0A=0AI asked Larry about this and he wanted me to post it here. I= think he was trying =0Ato get rid of me. It probably shows how little I kn= ow and that I am missing =0Asomething. This question came out of the activi= ty in the Guy area which is about =0A500 miles west of me as well as the Ne= w Madrid system which is closer. It seems =0Athe records are better on the = 2-4 Hz units. Here was my question;=0A=0A> It is about this geophone vs leh= man or other long period instruments. In=0A> California you have many local= quakes. These quakes have frequencies=0A> higher than long distance quakes= .. What is the logic of (just/or popularity of) =0A>long=0A> period instrume= nts out there? What precipitated this trend? The 1-5 Hz units =0A>should be= better on local events -- which you have a lot.=0AThere are many Californi= a quakes and there is the activity in Washington State =0Aand Yellowstone b= ut you never see local seismic detectors being posted with =0Aperiods of 1-= 4.5 Hz -- except possibly tchannel.=A0 Shouldn't these units help =0Adiffer= entiate human noises like quarry activity from smaller local earthquake =0A= activity?=0A=0A__________________________________________________________= =0A=0APublic Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)=0A=0ATo leave this list= email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the =0Amessage (firs= t line only): unsubscribe=0ASee http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for= more information.=0A=0A=0A=0A
Great, Great question! Since I have no idea and have w= ondered in the past..I'd love to see some answers!
=0A
=
=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Thomas Dick <dickthomas01@.............. >
To: psnlist@seismic= net.com
Sent: Fri, Octob= er 15, 2010 10:32:41 AM
Subject: Period of seismic units

I asked Larry about this and= he wanted me to post it here. I think he was trying to get rid of me. It p= robably shows how little I know and that I am missing something. This quest= ion came out of the activity in the Guy area which is about 500 miles west = of me as well as the New Madrid system which is closer. It seems the record= s are better on the 2-4 Hz units. Here was my question;

> It is a= bout this geophone vs lehman or other long period instruments. In
> C= alifornia you have many local quakes. These quakes have frequencies
>= higher than long distance quakes. What is the logic of (just/or popularity of) long
> period instruments out there? What pr= ecipitated this trend? The 1-5 Hz units should be better on local events --= which you have a lot.
There are many California quakes and there is the= activity in Washington State and Yellowstone but you never see local seism= ic detectors being posted with periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except possibly tchan= nel.  Shouldn't these units help differentiate human noises like quarr= y activity from smaller local earthquake activity?

_________________= _________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mai= ling List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first li= ne only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re information.

=0A=0A Subject: RE: Period of seismic units From: "Keith Payea" kpayea@.............. Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:10:50 -0700 I think the simple answer is that a long period seismometer will record both local and long distance quakes, while a short period one will only record local quakes. Some people with long period devices do filter off the high frequency/short period signals to avoid picking up local human activity. That would appear to make them less desirable for local quakes, when really they are capable of sensing them quite well. The "period" of the seismometer is a measure of the low frequency cutoff point, or the longest period that it can measure. If properly damped, the seismometer can sense signals to much higher frequency/shorter wavelength, up to the limit of the recording system. My opinion, anyways. Keith From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Len Polucci Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 1:52 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Period of seismic units Great, Great question! Since I have no idea and have wondered in the past..I'd love to see some answers! _____ From: Thomas Dick To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 10:32:41 AM Subject: Period of seismic units I asked Larry about this and he wanted me to post it here. I think he was trying to get rid of me. It probably shows how little I know and that I am missing something. This question came out of the activity in the Guy area which is about 500 miles west of me as well as the New Madrid system which is closer. It seems the records are better on the 2-4 Hz units. Here was my question; > It is about this geophone vs lehman or other long period instruments. In > California you have many local quakes. These quakes have frequencies > higher than long distance quakes. What is the logic of (just/or popularity of) long > period instruments out there? What precipitated this trend? The 1-5 Hz units should be better on local events -- which you have a lot. There are many California quakes and there is the activity in Washington State and Yellowstone but you never see local seismic detectors being posted with periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except possibly tchannel. Shouldn't these units help differentiate human noises like quarry activity from smaller local earthquake activity? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

I think the simple answer is that a long period = seismometer will record both local and long distance quakes, while a short period one = will only record local quakes.  Some people with long period devices do filter off = the high frequency/short period signals to avoid picking up local human = activity.  That would appear to make them less desirable for local quakes, when = really they are capable of sensing them quite well.

 

The “period” of the seismometer is a measure = of the low frequency cutoff point, or the longest period that it can = measure.  If properly damped, the seismometer can sense signals to much higher frequency/shorter wavelength, up to the limit of the recording = system.

 

My opinion, anyways…

 

         &nbs= p;      Keith

 

From:= psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... = On Behalf Of Len Polucci
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 1:52 PM
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: Re: Period of seismic units

 

Great, Great question! Since I have no idea and = have wondered in the past..I'd love to see some answers!

 

From:= Thomas = Dick <dickthomas01@.............>
To: psnlist@..............
Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 10:32:41 AM
Subject: Period of seismic units

I asked Larry about this and he wanted me to post it here. I think he = was trying to get rid of me. It probably shows how little I know and that I = am missing something. This question came out of the activity in the Guy = area which is about 500 miles west of me as well as the New Madrid system which is = closer. It seems the records are better on the 2-4 Hz units. Here was my = question;

> It is about this geophone vs lehman or other long period = instruments. In
> California you have many local quakes. These quakes have = frequencies
> higher than long distance quakes. What is the logic of (just/or = popularity of) long
> period instruments out there? What precipitated this trend? The 1-5 = Hz units should be better on local events -- which you have a lot.
There are many California quakes and there is the activity in Washington = State and Yellowstone but you never see local seismic detectors being posted = with periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except possibly tchannel.  Shouldn't these = units help differentiate human noises like quarry activity from smaller local earthquake activity?

__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more = information.

 

Subject: Re: Period of seismic units From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 15:10:53 -0600 Hi Len, I can only answer for myself, and for my area of the country. I usually operate three sensors, One Lehman NS, one Lehman EW, both 20 = seconds, and a vertical 1.5 seconds. On my homebuilt equipment, I find very good results with the 1.5 = vertical, for local, and near regional events. It also will make a = nice recording from anywhere in the world of >6.8. Really nice >7m However, the down side is it will only record the P,S and a portion of = the longer frequencies. A typical recording of a 7M from Asia, may = only last 20 mins. Now the Lehmans.......They miss many small events, that the vertical = picks up............They never miss the mid size, nor the large events, = and on the typical recording of a 7M, may record four hours, compare to = the vertical 20 mins. So I love having both, at lease one vertical, and one Lehman. I am = sure others, with different equipment would see different results. Many times, I look at my sensors to find only one of the two types = recorded anything of value. I would not like to be without my = vertical. Limited as it is. My posting may not reflect this, as I very often, get too busy to post = all three. I am trying to operate five or six at a time, and may only = post one of interest. Cheers, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Len Polucci=20 To: psnlist@................. Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 2:51 PM Subject: Re: Period of seismic units Great, Great question! Since I have no idea and have wondered in the = past..I'd love to see some answers! -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: Thomas Dick To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 10:32:41 AM Subject: Period of seismic units I asked Larry about this and he wanted me to post it here. I think he = was trying to get rid of me. It probably shows how little I know and = that I am missing something. This question came out of the activity in = the Guy area which is about 500 miles west of me as well as the New = Madrid system which is closer. It seems the records are better on the = 2-4 Hz units. Here was my question; > It is about this geophone vs lehman or other long period = instruments. In > California you have many local quakes. These quakes have frequencies > higher than long distance quakes. What is the logic of (just/or = popularity of) long > period instruments out there? What precipitated this trend? The 1-5 = Hz units should be better on local events -- which you have a lot. There are many California quakes and there is the activity in = Washington State and Yellowstone but you never see local seismic = detectors being posted with periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except possibly = tchannel. Shouldn't these units help differentiate human noises like = quarry activity from smaller local earthquake activity? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body = of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Hi Len,  I can only answer for = myself, and for=20 my area of the country.
 
I usually operate three sensors, One = Lehman NS, one=20 Lehman EW, both 20 seconds, and a vertical 1.5 seconds.
On my homebuilt equipment, I find very = good results=20 with the 1.5 vertical, for local, and near regional events.   = It also=20 will make a nice recording from anywhere in the world of = >6.8.  =20 Really nice >7m
However, the down side is it will only = record the=20 P,S and a portion of the longer frequencies.   A typical = recording of=20 a 7M from Asia, may only last 20 mins.
 
Now the Lehmans.......They miss many = small events,=20 that the vertical picks up............They never miss the mid size, = nor the=20 large events, and on the typical recording of a 7M, may record four = hours,=20 compare to the vertical 20 mins.
 
So I love having both, at lease one = vertical, and=20 one Lehman.    I am sure others, with different equipment = would=20 see different results.
Many times, I look at my sensors to = find only one=20 of the two types recorded anything of value.   I would not = like to be=20 without my vertical.  Limited as it is.
 
My posting may not reflect this, as I = very=20 often,  get too busy to post all three.   I am trying to = operate=20 five or six at a time, and may only post one of interest.
 
Cheers, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Len=20 Polucci
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 = 2:51=20 PM
Subject: Re: Period of seismic=20 units

Great, Great question! Since I have no idea and have wondered in = the=20 past..I'd love to see some answers!

From: Thomas Dick = <dickthomas01@.............= >
To: psnlist@..............
<= SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 = 10:32:41=20 AM
Subject: Period = of seismic=20 units

I asked Larry about this and he wanted me to post = it here.=20 I think he was trying to get rid of me. It probably shows how little I = know=20 and that I am missing something. This question came out of the = activity in the=20 Guy area which is about 500 miles west of me as well as the New Madrid = system=20 which is closer. It seems the records are better on the 2-4 Hz units. = Here was=20 my question;

> It is about this geophone vs lehman or other = long=20 period instruments. In
> California you have many local quakes. = These=20 quakes have frequencies
> higher than long distance quakes. What = is the=20 logic of (just/or popularity of) long
> period instruments out = there?=20 What precipitated this trend? The 1-5 Hz units should be better on = local=20 events -- which you have a lot.
There are many California quakes = and there=20 is the activity in Washington State and Yellowstone but you never see = local=20 seismic detectors being posted with periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except = possibly=20 tchannel.  Shouldn't these units help differentiate human noises = like=20 quarry activity from smaller local earthquake=20 = activity?

________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMIC= NET.COM=20 with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See=20 http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more=20 information.

Subject: Re: Period of seismic units From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:35:35 -0400 Good question. It is mostly about how many quakes you are likely to see. Even though there are many quakes every day in California, not many are large enough or close enough to see above the seismic background noise, which is much higher at the higher frequencies. You might only see one quake every few days. And to some degree the nearer quakes aren't as 'interesting', rarely showing much in the way of distinct phases--just a single, fairly short, pop. With a good longer-period instrument and a good location, you may see several distant quakes per day lasting for many minutes and sometimes showing multiple phases. Some of these will be the ones you hear about in the news. The best of all worlds is a broadband instrument covering both high and low frequencies, which can be tuned to see either type of quake simply by changing the WinSDR filter and gain settings. see: http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm I suspect the reason that most on-line helicorder traces are filtered to long periods (excessively filtered in my opinion) is to avoid confusing the earthquake traces with local noise, for folks who aren't familiar with what they are seeing. The people who are really studying the local quakes get the raw data files and would seldom, if ever, look at the filtered on-line traces. Brett At 10:32 AM 10/15/2010, you wrote: >>It is about this geophone vs lehman or other long period instruments. In >>California you have many local quakes. These quakes have frequencies >>higher than long distance quakes. What is the logic of (just/or >>popularity of) long >>period instruments out there? What precipitated this trend? The 1-5 >>Hz units should be better on local events -- which you have a lot. >There are many California quakes and there is the activity in >Washington State and Yellowstone but you never see local seismic >detectors being posted with periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except possibly >tchannel. Shouldn't these units help differentiate human noises >like quarry activity from smaller local earthquake activity? > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Period of seismic units<<< Super Home Brew<<< From: "Jim ODonnell" geophysics@.......... Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 15:54:40 GMT Hi Brett- I have been following Your & Dave's development of your Super = Home Brew Z and am always impressed when you make a comparison with the = very nice commercial = Nanometrics Trillium Compact 120 sensor. Did you start with Sean-Thomas Morrissey's: STM-8 Leaf Spring Seismomet= er design? see http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html Can you come up with a cost estimate of your Supre Home Brew (SHB), and = cost for the 120? = Do you plan on selling your SHB? Congratulations for developing such a magnificant Seis.....Jim = Jim O'Donnell BC-Geophysics = Geophysical Consultant/Contractor Geotechnical/Geothermal/Oil & Gas/Mining Applications Seismic Surveys- Surface Waves, Refraction, & Reflection Ground Penetrating Radar, Resistivity, Magnetic, & VLF-EM Surveys Geophysics@.......... 702.293.5664 702.281.9081 cell = Boulder City, NV ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Brett Nordgren To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Period of seismic units Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:35:35 -0400 Good question. It is mostly about how many quakes you are likely to see. Even = though there are many quakes every day in California, not many are = large enough or close enough to see above the seismic background = noise, which is much higher at the higher frequencies. You might = only see one quake every few days. And to some degree the nearer = quakes aren't as 'interesting', rarely showing much in the way of = distinct phases--just a single, fairly short, pop. With a good longer-period instrument and a good location, you may see = several distant quakes per day lasting for many minutes and sometimes = showing multiple phases. Some of these will be the ones you hear = about in the news. The best of all worlds is a broadband instrument covering both high = and low frequencies, which can be tuned to see either type of quake = simply by changing the WinSDR filter and gain settings. see: http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm I suspect the reason that most on-line helicorder traces are filtered = to long periods (excessively filtered in my opinion) is to avoid = confusing the earthquake traces with local noise, for folks who = aren't familiar with what they are seeing. The people who are really = studying the local quakes get the raw data files and would seldom, if = ever, look at the filtered on-line traces. Brett At 10:32 AM 10/15/2010, you wrote: >>It is about this geophone vs lehman or other long period instruments. = In >>California you have many local quakes. These quakes have frequencies >>higher than long distance quakes. What is the logic of (just/or = >>popularity of) long >>period instruments out there? What precipitated this trend? The 1-5 = >>Hz units should be better on local events -- which you have a lot. >There are many California quakes and there is the activity in = >Washington State and Yellowstone but you never see local seismic = >detectors being posted with periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except possibly = >tchannel. Shouldn't these units help differentiate human noises = >like quarry activity from smaller local earthquake activity? > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with = the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Hi Brett- I have been following Your & Dave's development of y= our Super Home Brew Z and am always impressed when you make a comparison= with the very nice commercial
Nanometrics Trillium Compact 120 sens= or.

Did you start with Sean-Thomas Morrissey's:  STM-8 Leaf Spring Seismometer design?
see http://www.eas.slu.edu/P= eople/STMorrissey/index.html

Can you come up with a cost esti= mate of your Supre Home Brew (SHB), and cost for the 120?   Do you plan on selling your SHB?

Congratulations fo= r developing such a magnificant Seis.....Jim 

= Jim O'Donnell BC-Geophysics
Geophysical Consultant/Contractor
Geo= technical/Geothermal/Oil & Gas/Mining Applications
Seismic Survey= s- Surface Waves, Refraction, & Reflection
Ground Penetrating Rad= ar, Resistivity, Magnetic, & VLF-EM Surveys
Geophysics@...........  702.293.5664  702.281.9081 cell   
Boulder City= , NV


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Brett No= rdgren <brett3nt@.............>
To: psnlist@..............
S= ubject: Re: Period of seismic units
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 10:35:35 -= 0400

Good question.

It is mostly about how many quakes you= are likely to see.  Even
though there are many quakes every da= y in California, not many are
large enough or close enough to see ab= ove the seismic background
noise, which is much higher at the higher= frequencies.  You might
only see one quake every few days. &nb= sp;And to some degree the nearer
quakes aren't as 'interesting', rar= ely showing much in the way of
distinct phases--just a single, fairl= y short, pop.

With a good longer-period instrument and a good loc= ation, you may see
several distant quakes per day lasting for many m= inutes and sometimes
showing multiple phases.  Some of these wi= ll be the ones you hear
about in the news.

The best of all wo= rlds is a broadband instrument covering both high
and low frequencie= s, which can be tuned to see either type of quake
simply by changing= the WinSDR filter and gain settings.

see:   http://bno= rdgren.org/seismo/gif_images.htm

I suspect the reason that most o= n-line helicorder traces are filtered
to long periods (excessively f= iltered in my opinion) is to avoid
confusing the earthquake traces w= ith local noise, for folks who
aren't familiar with what they are se= eing.  The people who are really
studying the local quakes get = the raw data files and would seldom, if
ever, look at the filtered o= n-line traces.

Brett

At 10:32 AM 10/15/2010, you wrote:
>>It is about this geophone vs lehman or other long period in= struments. In
>>California you have many local quakes. These qu= akes have frequencies
>>higher than long distance quakes. What = is the logic of (just/or
>>popularity of) long
>>peri= od instruments out there? What precipitated this trend? The 1-5
>= >Hz units should be better on local events -- which you have a lot.>There are many California quakes and there is the activity in
= >Washington State and Yellowstone but you never see local seismic >detectors being posted with periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except possibly =
>tchannel.  Shouldn't these units help differentiate human n= oises
>like quarry activity from smaller local earthquake activit= y?
>




__________________________________________= ________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with
th= e body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.s= eismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Fw: Period of seismic units<<< Super Home Brew<<< From: "Dave Nelson" davefnelson@....... Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:01:25 -0000 > > > Hi Jim, > > Nice to hear from you. We are having extensive discussions about how to > proceed with making this broadband vertical available to the amateur > community at reasonable cost. I am in the process of making some > revisions to the smaller of the two instruments (Yuma ) which will be my > preference for the "production " configuration. > > Angel has been thinking of making mechanical parts in Panama but no > commitment yet. We still have some work to do. > > In many ways this instrument is easier and less critical to assemble than > some of the traditional amateur instruments but it does require a good > understanding of the principles involved, and reasonable mechanical > skills. So far all of those who have built them on their own have had an > engineering background. > > This instrument will allow the amateur with a good site and well made > facility to get results equivalent to many professional installations. > > We are also working on the pressure case which is critical to minimizing > buoyancy effects and case distortion from short period atmospheric > pressure changes. If well isolated from atmospheric effects the long > period noise is very low which will enable viewing of the long period > waves form large seismic events out to as long as 360 seconds. > > The design is a quite different from the Sean-Thomas Morrissey and Allan > Coleman designs both mechanically and electrically however their > pioneering work is clearly recognized and acknowledged as influential in > many ways. Brett will add some words of his own below. > > Best Regards, Dave > > > Hi Jim, > > I'll throw in a couple of thoughts, too. > > Thanks for the kind words. We're continually amazed with the performance > we're getting as the design continues to get refined. Dave has probably > built a couple of dozen trial designs, with a handful making it to the > serious testing stage. The original mechanical design was conceived by > Terry Brown, working with Dave when he visited Terry in Tennessee, with > the electronics mostly being Dave's. His capacitance displacement sensor > design is beautifully simple, and it works as well or better than any > sensor I've seen. So far we don't know how good the instrument actually > is, since it appears likely to be better than Dave's rather quiet site. > > In terms of cost, the FBV electronic parts cost about $165 including the > circuit board, when the parts are purchased in small quantities--quite a > bit less, each, if you ordered for 25. The uncertain part is the set of > mechanical parts. If you turned them over to a commercial machine shop, > the cost would be lot$$. But when they can be made at home, the raw > material would probably be under $100, and you'd still have enough > material left over to make some of the parts for several more. > > The pressure case is not a trivial part of the design and may have a > material cost of $100+. > > As I recall the Trillium Compact was about $8,000 plus something for the > cables. Of course, that is a three-axis instrument. > > Regards, > Brett > > >>From: Jim ODonnell >>Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2010 3:54 PM >>To: psnlist@.............. >>Subject: Re: Period of seismic units<<< Super Home Brew<<< >> >>Hi Brett- I have been following Your & Dave's development of your Super >>Home Brew Z and am always impressed when you make a comparison with the >>very nice commercial >>Nanometrics Trillium Compact 120 sensor. >> >>Did you start with Sean-Thomas Morrissey's: STM-8 Leaf Spring Seismometer >>design? >>see >>http://www.eas.slu.edu/People/STMorrissey/index.html >> >>Can you come up with a cost estimate of your Supre Home Brew (SHB), and >>cost for the 120? >>Do you plan on selling your SHB? >> >>Congratulations for developing such a magnificant Seis.....Jim >> >>Jim O'Donnell BC-Geophysics >>Geophysical Consultant/Contractor >>Geotechnical/Geothermal/Oil & Gas/Mining Applications >>Seismic Surveys- Surface Waves, Refraction, & Reflection >>Ground Penetrating Radar, Resistivity, Magnetic, & VLF-EM Surveys >>Geophysics@.......... 702.293.5664 702.281.9081 cell >>Boulder City, NV > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Period of seismic units From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 22:25:52 +0000 -------------------------------------------------- From: "Len Polucci" Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 8:51 PM To: Subject: Re: Period of seismic units > Great, Great question! Since I have no idea and have wondered in the past..I'd > love to see some answers! > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Thomas Dick > To: psnlist@.............. > Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 10:32:41 AM > Subject: Period of seismic units > > I asked Larry about this and he wanted me to post it here. I think he was trying > to get rid of me. It probably shows how little I know and that I am missing > something. This question came out of the activity in the Guy area which is about > 500 miles west of me as well as the New Madrid system which is closer. It seems > the records are better on the 2-4 Hz units. Here was my question; > >> It is about this geophone vs lehman or other long period instruments. In >> California you have many local quakes. These quakes have frequencies >> higher than long distance quakes. What is the logic of (just/or popularity of) >>long >> period instruments out there? What precipitated this trend? The 1-5 Hz units >>should be better on local events -- which you have a lot. > There are many California quakes and there is the activity in Washington State > and Yellowstone but you never see local seismic detectors being posted with > periods of 1-4.5 Hz -- except possibly tchannel. Shouldn't these units help > differentiate human noises like quarry activity from smaller local earthquake > activity? Unless you are plagued by vehicular or other human activity you should be able to open your spectrum all the way out to the anti alizing frequency. No matter what you need to filter out all above 1/2 or 0.5 the sample rate or you will get unwanted artifacts. You need to filter this way at some stage prior to the sampling of the data. So like if your samp[le rate is 100 then filter out all over 50Hz and if sample rate is 20 all over 10 Hz but if you are plagued by machinery on the ground or vehicular activity then the weaker seismic signals will require you filter at like two hertz no matter what. Like you live in the middle of a crowded place. You can see both regional and teleseismic but not footfalls or those higher disturbances that make the picture so perfect. The ability to reproduce a square wave is in my opinion the best way to test the over all response of any system. You need to resilve many harmonics to be able to do this. Not sure how to test this with a geophone but you might inject a 1HZ square wave into the sensor itself. Most probably disconnecting the geophone all together for the test. The more faithful your recording the better your system. I would call footfalls close to your sensor a local event and if you can see footfalls you must have a good setup. Footfalls being a human walking by or some heavy animal like a bunny rabbit hopping by. ??? If the seismic thing which you look for has no alizing frequencies then I say, why any filter at all. Maybe only equalization for a SPZ. Except possibly a DC blocker at 30 seconds or 0.03333 Hz. . But it has to be located in a very quiet area. On granite bedrock. Underground. Away from any human habitation/villages maybe several feet away from any human foundation/home/work. Still, I have never seen a better SPZ than the 500 lb squeegee sharpener thing which was a velocity device. It has a mass of like over 100Lbs and a very heavy flat coiled [prestressed?] spring. Maybe there is a picture on the internet of this, but, I have not yet seen any. The manufacturer was a Texas Company I think. Your device is the most portable vertical I have ever seen. Just put it in a vacuum chamber and shield it from electrical disturbances. All which adds to the expense. geoff > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Status Report From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 10:13:16 -0500 Wonderful and encouraging news that he is improving. I'm sure after he gets home, and with the aid of your home cooking he will quickly improve! Please, tell him that ALL of the PSN group is wishing him well. Regards, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Christopher Chapman To: gpayton@............. Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:04 AM Subject: Re: Status Report Hi Jerry, Chris is making a slow and steady improvement. He is in a Rehab Unit and hopes to be discharged in 2 to 3 weeks time. He can walk short distances with some support, but his strength is coming back. He wont be able to manage the stairs yet, which means that we will have to buy a laptop to keep him entertained !! Dianne
Wonderful and encouraging news that he is improving.  I'm sure = after=20 he gets home, and with the aid of your home  cooking he will = quickly=20 improve! 
 
Please, tell him that ALL of the PSN group is wishing him=20 well.
 
Regards,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Christopher=20 Chapman
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 = 10:04=20 AM
Subject: Re: Status = Report

Hi = Jerry,
 
       Chris is making a slow and = steady=20 improvement. He is in a Rehab Unit and hopes to be discharged in 2 to = 3 weeks=20 time. He can walk short distances with some support, but his strength = is=20 coming back.
 He wont be able to manage the stairs yet, which = means=20 that we will have to buy a laptop to keep him entertained !!
 
 
Dianne
 Subject: winquake event report From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:50:16 -0700 (PDT) I have been having problems recently with one of the network site< ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing>(comes with winquake). I remember an similar alternate site mentioned but can't find the email with the reference. Any help would be appreciated Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com
I have been having problems recently with one of the network site< ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing>(comes with winquake). I remember an similar alternate site mentioned  but can't find the email with the reference. Any help would be appreciated
 
 
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

Subject: Re: winquake event report From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:13:40 -0500 Could it be .../cnss/anss_14.fing ? It appears that is all that is that "cnss" folder. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Barry Lotz To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:50 PM Subject: winquake event report I have been having problems recently with one of the network site< ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing>(comes with winquake). I remember an similar alternate site mentioned but can't find the email with the reference. Any help would be appreciated Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com
Could it be .../cnss/anss_14.fing ? 
It appears that is all that is that "cnss" folder.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Barry=20 Lotz
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 = 8:50=20 PM
Subject: winquake event = report

I=20 have been having problems recently with one of the network site< ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing= >(comes=20 with winquake). I remember an similar alternate site mentioned  = but can't=20 find the email with the reference. Any help would be appreciated
 
 
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

Subject: Re: winquake event report From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:55:41 -0400 I too have been having trouble with that site. All was fine until about a week ago. Now, when I attempt to connect the status is initially reported as "Receiving data" but then changes to File Not Found, and no data is returned. I have been using http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/finger/cnss_14.fing which is another option provided in Winquake. That works fine for me for now. I have to assume that the other site is having some sort of problem that will eventually get fixed. Larry Conklin Liverpool, NY On 10/18/2010 9:50 PM, Barry Lotz wrote: > I have been having problems recently with one of the network site< > ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing>(comes with winquake). I > remember an similar alternate site mentioned but can't find the email > with the reference. Any help would be appreciated > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > I too have been having trouble with that site.  All was fine until about a week ago.  Now, when I attempt to connect the status is initially reported as "Receiving data" but then changes to File Not Found, and no data is returned.  I have been using

 http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/finger/cnss_14.fing

which is another option provided in Winquake.  That works fine for me for now.  I have to assume that the other site is having some sort of problem that will eventually get fixed.

Larry Conklin
Liverpool, NY

On 10/18/2010 9:50 PM, Barry Lotz wrote:
I have been having problems recently with one of the network site< ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing>(comes with winquake). I remember an similar alternate site mentioned  but can't find the email with the reference. Any help would be appreciated
 
 
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

Subject: Installation of a Kinemetric FBA-23 in my seismic vault. From: Louis Taber ltaber@......... Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:33:22 -0700 Hi, I just put up some pictures of my "seismic vault" on Facebook. It is located in central Tucson, AZ. So far the project has taken me about 4 years of occasional effort. Digging the original hole was most of the physical work. The hole is about 5.5 feet deep. http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=31424&id=100000335005655&l=81a5cef2df The next sep will be to start recording and processing the signal. - Louis Hi,

I just put up some pictures of my "seismic vault" on F= acebook.=A0 It is located in central Tucson, AZ.=A0 So far the project has = taken me about 4 years of occasional effort.=A0 Digging the original hole w= as most of the physical work.=A0 The hole is about 5.5 feet deep. =A0

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3D3142= 4&id=3D100000335005655&l=3D81a5cef2df

The next sep will = be to start recording and processing the signal.

=A0 - Louis
Subject: Seismic Digital Data From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 20:21:04 +0000 Hello PSN; Is there any kind of a official universal standard for seismic data and like the header data which gives meaning to the data ? If not universal then official for the USA ? Possibly PSN is the only best way to be universal ? geoff The US government seems terrible with computer stuff in that they do not use PC for anything serious but hanging people ? They are more like the Europeans using Linux or Unix. I know this really well educated fed that's paranoid about email due to viruses and stuff possibly that's why they don't use PCs or MSWindows? Comments ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Installation of a Kinemetric FBA-23 in my seismic vault. From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 16:45:14 -0700 Hi Louis - Your setup is VERY NICE !!!. It appears that you have gone to great = efforts to build a VERY professional vault and pier. Hopefully this = should block out temperature variations and ambient airflow. The = isolation of the pier from the vault is well done.=20 How is your background noise on the vertical and horizontal channels? Good Luck, Bob Hancock On Oct 18, 2010, at 9:33 PM, Louis Taber wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I just put up some pictures of my "seismic vault" on Facebook. It is = located in central Tucson, AZ. So far the project has taken me about 4 = years of occasional effort. Digging the original hole was most of the = physical work. The hole is about 5.5 feet deep. =20 >=20 > = http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3D31424&id=3D100000335005655&l=3D81a= 5cef2df >=20 > The next sep will be to start recording and processing the signal. >=20 > - Louis
Hi,

I= just put up some pictures of my "seismic vault" on Facebook.  It = is located in central Tucson, AZ.  So far the project has taken me = about 4 years of occasional effort.  Digging the original hole was = most of the physical work.  The hole is about 5.5 feet deep.   =

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3D31424&= ;id=3D100000335005655&l=3D81a5cef2df

The next sep will be = to start recording and processing the signal.

  - Louis

= Subject: Re: Installation of a Kinemetric FBA-23 in my seismic vault. From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:40:29 -0400 What are you expecting to detect with the FBA-23 sensor? I think it is a triaxial accelerometer with plus/minus 1 g full scale range. I can hardly believe that it is any good for detecting anything other than a strong local event. Bob On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Louis Taber wrote: > Hi, > > I just put up some pictures of my "seismic vault" on Facebook. It is > located in central Tucson, AZ. So far the project has taken me about 4 > years of occasional effort. Digging the original hole was most of the > physical work. The hole is about 5.5 feet deep. > > http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=31424&id=100000335005655&l=81a5cef2df > > The next step will be to start recording and processing the signal. > > - Louis > What are you expec= ting to detect with the FBA-23 sensor? I think it is a triaxial acceleromet= er with plus/minus 1 g full scale range. I can hardly believe that it is an= y good for detecting anything other than a strong local event.

Bob

On Tue, Oct 19, 201= 0 at 12:33 AM, Louis Taber <ltaber@.........> wrote:
Hi,

I just put up some pictures of my "seismic vault" on F= acebook.=A0 It is located in central Tucson, AZ.=A0 So far the project has = taken me about 4 years of occasional effort.=A0 Digging the original hole w= as most of the physical work.=A0 The hole is about 5.5 feet deep. =A0

http://www.facebook.com/al= bum.php?aid=3D31424&id=3D100000335005655&l=3D81a5cef2df

= The next step will be to start recording and processing the signal.

=A0 - Louis

Subject: Re: Installation of a Kinemetric FBA-23 in my seismic vault. From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 20:38:27 -0700 Hi Louis, I was wondering the same thing. I have had one of these sensors online since 1997. The FBA-23 is a strong motion sensor, mine has a +-2G range, that is designed to record large LOCAL events without saturating. Since you are in Tucson, AZ you will probably not record very many earthquakes with this type of sensor. What you need for your very nicely built vault is a long period sensor so you can record large events from all over the world. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 10/19/2010 7:40 PM, Bob McClure wrote: > What are you expecting to detect with the FBA-23 sensor? I think it is a > triaxial accelerometer with plus/minus 1 g full scale range. I can hardly > believe that it is any good for detecting anything other than a strong local > event. > > Bob > > On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Louis Taber wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I just put up some pictures of my "seismic vault" on Facebook. It is >> located in central Tucson, AZ. So far the project has taken me about 4 >> years of occasional effort. Digging the original hole was most of the >> physical work. The hole is about 5.5 feet deep. >> >> http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=31424&id=100000335005655&l=81a5cef2df >> >> The next step will be to start recording and processing the signal. >> >> - Louis >> > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: winquake event report From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 23:40:29 -0700 Hi Everyone, I have a new beta version of WinQuake that uses a new feature to retrieve event reports over the Internet. The new feature is the ability to run a program or script to generate an event report file that is then read by WinQuake to list the available events from the website. The beta version of WinQuake can be downloaded using this link: http://www.seismicnet.com/software/wq318b2_setup.exe This new release uses these two USGS websites for event report processing: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Quakes/quakes_all.php http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/quakes_all.php Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 10/18/2010 6:50 PM, Barry Lotz wrote: > I have been having problems recently with one of the network site< > ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing>(comes with winquake). I remember > an similar alternate site mentioned but can't find the email with the > reference. Any help would be appreciated > > > Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: I am looking for volunteer wriiters for earthquake-report.com From: "QuakeSOS" quakesos@........... Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 15:20:57 +0200 Hi from earthquake-report.com, A couple of months ago, in the slipstream of a free iPhone earthquake app (QuakeSOS), i have created earthquake-report.com. The main reason of it's existence is writing small articles in understandable language about ongoing events in the world. In combination with a couple of Facebook groups with thousands of fans, the reader basis of earthquake-report.com is increasing. The blog is currently in a wordpress.com blog format, but a fully and nicer environment will be active within a couple of weeks. A reader of my blog informed me about the PSNlist and told me that eventually some members of the list maybe interested in working together with me on this blog. Of course i would really appreciate a cooperation from people who are really focused on seismology. I am mainly searching for 2 categories of volunteers : a) people who want to update the events in the site while adding a few lines of explanation with the nature origin of the quake (tectonics, fault lines, etc) b) people who want to share some of their (technical) knowledge and want to publish an article in my blog, thus creating a widespread worldwide audience for their article. As i am not technical myself, there almost no technical articles in the blog, but i am certainly positive in adding them. Enough words, when you feel that you can write articles as you see them in the blog, do not hesitate and give me a sign, i would be really happy to cooperate with you. Armand Vervaeck Creator of the earthquake-report.com blog __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Seismic Vault From: Len Polucci lenpolucci@......... Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 07:22:20 -0700 (PDT) Hi Louis, your vault is very impressive! A dream pursuit of mine as well. I= see =0Athat some members are thinking that with only that sensor you will = only have =0Astrong motion monitoring, which I would imagine is an importan= t tool as well.=A0I =0Asee that your oscilloscope trace reveals microseisms= .. Do you have an FBA-23 with =0A1/10 or 1/4 g range? are you amplifying it?= I am sure your pier will have an =0Aassortment of seismometers in time esp= ecially with the help and guidance of our =0Aincredibly knowledgeable membe= rs as well.=A0Thanks, Len=0A=0A=0A
=0A
Hi Louis, your vault is very impressive! = A dream pursuit of mine as well. I see that some members are thinking that = with only that sensor you will only have strong motion monitoring, which I = would imagine is an important tool as well. I see that your oscillosco= pe trace reveals microseisms. Do you have an FBA-23 with 1/10 or 1/4 g rang= e? are you amplifying it? I am sure your pier will have an assortment of se= ismometers in time especially with the help and guidance of our incredibly = knowledgeable members as well. Thanks, Len

=0A=0A= Subject: Re: winquake event report From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 07:23:20 -0700 (PDT) Larry Thanks. I was having the same symptoms. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com ________________________________ From: Larry Conklin To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Mon, October 18, 2010 7:55:41 PM Subject: Re: winquake event report I too have been having trouble with that site. All was fine until about a week ago. Now, when I attempt to connect the status is initially reported as "Receiving data" but then changes to File Not Found, and no data is returned. I have been using http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/finger/cnss_14.fing which is another option provided in Winquake. That works fine for me for now. I have to assume that the other site is having some sort of problem that will eventually get fixed. Larry Conklin Liverpool, NY On 10/18/2010 9:50 PM, Barry Lotz wrote: I have been having problems recently with one of the network site< ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing>(comes with winquake). I remember an similar alternate site mentioned but can't find the email with the reference. Any help would be appreciated > > > Regards >Barry >http://www.seismicvault.com > >
Larry
Thanks. I was having the same symptoms.
 
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com


From: Larry Conklin <lconklin@............>
To: psnlist@..............
Sent: Mon, October 18, 2010 7:55:41 PM
Subject: Re: winquake event report

I too have been having trouble with that site.  All was fine until about a week ago.  Now, when I attempt to connect the status is initially reported as "Receiving data" but then changes to File Not Found, and no data is returned.  I have been using

 http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/finger/cnss_14.fing

which is another option provided in Winquake.  That works fine for me for now.  I have to assume that the other site is having some sort of problem that will eventually get fixed.

Larry Conklin
Liverpool, NY

On 10/18/2010 9:50 PM, Barry Lotz wrote:
I have been having problems recently with one of the network site< ftp://hazards.cr.usgs.gov/cnss/cnss_14.fing>(comes with winquake). I remember an similar alternate site mentioned  but can't find the email with the reference. Any help would be appreciated
 
 
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

Subject: Re: Seismic Digital Data From: sismos sismos@.............. Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:47:44 +0000 Geoff, Yes there is and it called SEED Standard for the Exchange of Seismic Data. The SEED manual is available on-line. I also think that Winquake will save data in the format. Saludos, Angel On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 20:21 +0000, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello PSN; > > Is there any kind of a official universal standard for > seismic data and like the header data which > gives meaning to the data ? > > If not universal then official for the USA ? > > Possibly PSN is the only best way to be universal ? > > geoff > > The US government seems terrible with computer stuff in that they > do not use PC for anything serious but hanging people ? > They are more like the Europeans using Linux or Unix. > I know this really well educated fed that's paranoid about email due to viruses and stuff > possibly that's why they don't use PCs or MSWindows? > > Comments ? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Seismic Digital Data From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 11:17:04 -0700 WinQuake will only attempt to read SEED volumes, it will not save data in this format. Regards, Larry Cochrane Webtronics On 10/20/2010 9:47 AM, sismos wrote: > Geoff, > > Yes there is and it called SEED > > Standard for the Exchange of Seismic Data. > > The SEED manual is available on-line. I also think that Winquake will > save data in the format. > > Saludos, > > Angel > > > > > On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 20:21 +0000, Geoffrey wrote: >> Hello PSN; >> >> Is there any kind of a official universal standard for >> seismic data and like the header data which >> gives meaning to the data ? >> >> If not universal then official for the USA ? >> >> Possibly PSN is the only best way to be universal ? >> >> geoff >> >> The US government seems terrible with computer stuff in that they >> do not use PC for anything serious but hanging people ? >> They are more like the Europeans using Linux or Unix. >> I know this really well educated fed that's paranoid about email due to viruses and stuff >> possibly that's why they don't use PCs or MSWindows? >> >> Comments ? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Negative clipping in AmaSeis From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 18:16:30 -0600 Hi Folks, I have used DataQ194 ad converters, and 158. Big price = differences so I use more of the 194. Mostly they work fine. However from time to time a system will have = negative clipping, nothing below zero, unless you jump close to the = machine and then is shows negative values. We installed a new system, in a school three hours away. They = recorded their first earthquake, but because of the clipping the data is = useless. It carrys over into Winquake and filtering does nothing to = improve it. I had a similar problem, changed the 194, and install a 158 the problem = went away. Reinstalled the 194, the problem returned. I wanted to = try a new 194, but did not have one. Can anyone help........Have you see something similar?....could it be = the set up procedure in Windata, which comes with the 194. It has a = set up window for values, and should be set to +10 volts and -10 volts. I don't think it is the sensor. I don't think it is Amaseis or Winquake. I don't think it is the computer. I don't think it is the cables...... Thanks, Ted
Hi Folks,   I have used = DataQ194 ad=20 converters, and 158.   Big price differences so I use more of = the=20 194.
 
Mostly they work fine.   = However from=20 time to time a system will have negative clipping, nothing below zero, = unless=20 you jump close to the machine and then is shows negative = values.
 
We installed a new system, in a school = three hours=20 away.    They recorded their first earthquake, but = because of the=20 clipping the data is useless.   It carrys over into Winquake = and=20 filtering does nothing to improve it.
 
I had a similar problem, changed the = 194, and=20 install a 158 the problem went away.   Reinstalled the 194, = the=20 problem returned.   I wanted to try a new 194, but did not = have=20 one.
 
Can anyone help........Have you see = something=20 similar?....could it be the set up procedure in Windata, which comes = with the=20 194.   It has a set up window for values, and should be set to = +10=20 volts and -10 volts.
 
I don't think it is the = sensor.
I don't think it is Amaseis or=20 Winquake.
I don't think it is the = computer.
I don't think it is the = cables......
 
Thanks, Ted
Subject: Re: WinQuake Help Files From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 00:49:13 -0700 Hi Bob, Thank you for the reminder about the updated help files. I just released a new beta version of WQ that includes the update files. Here's the link to the new WQ release: http://www.seismicnet.com/software/wq318b3_setup.exe Regards, -Larry On 10/20/2010 9:20 AM, Bob McClure wrote: > Hi Larry, > > I downloaded your latest version of WinQuake. I was disappointed that you > have not yet upgraded the Help files. I did my own upgrade, and sent you my > results earlier this year. If you want them, I will send them again. See our > prior correspondence below. I wish more users knew how to make volume files. > This is the main reason I want see a newer version of Help available. > > Cheers, > > Bob __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: Negative clipping in AmaSeis From: "Dale Hardy" dale@........... Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:54:14 +1100 Hi Ted, You need to be sure that a negative voltage is being generated by the sensor. One simple way to test the DataQ device is to apply 1.5v, ( dry cell battery ) to the DataQ unit, observe the deflection in Amaseis then reverse the polarity and the deflection should be opposite but equal. Regards Dale _____ From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Ted Channel Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2010 11:17 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Negative clipping in AmaSeis Hi Folks, I have used DataQ194 ad converters, and 158. Big price differences so I use more of the 194. Mostly they work fine. However from time to time a system will have negative clipping, nothing below zero, unless you jump close to the machine and then is shows negative values. We installed a new system, in a school three hours away. They recorded their first earthquake, but because of the clipping the data is useless. It carrys over into Winquake and filtering does nothing to improve it. I had a similar problem, changed the 194, and install a 158 the problem went away. Reinstalled the 194, the problem returned. I wanted to try a new 194, but did not have one. Can anyone help........Have you see something similar?....could it be the set up procedure in Windata, which comes with the 194. It has a set up window for values, and should be set to +10 volts and -10 volts. I don't think it is the sensor. I don't think it is Amaseis or Winquake. I don't think it is the computer. I don't think it is the cables...... Thanks, Ted

Hi = Ted,

You need to be sure that a negative voltage is being generated by the sensor.

One simple way to test the DataQ = device is to apply 1.5v, ( dry cell battery ) to the DataQ unit, observe the = deflection in Amaseis  then reverse the polarity and the deflection should be = opposite but equal.

 

Regards

=

Dale

 

From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... = On Behalf Of Ted Channel
Sent: Thursday, 21 = October 2010 11:17 AM
To: = psnlist@..............
Subject: Negative = clipping in AmaSeis

 

Hi Folks,   I have used DataQ194 ad = converters, and 158.   Big price differences so I use more of the = 194.

 

Mostly they work fine.   However from time = to time a system will have negative clipping, nothing below zero, unless you = jump close to the machine and then is shows negative = values.

 

We installed a new system, in a school three hours away.    They recorded their first earthquake, but = because of the clipping the data is useless.   It carrys over into = Winquake and filtering does nothing to improve it.

 

I had a similar problem, changed the 194, and install = a 158 the problem went away.   Reinstalled the 194, the problem returned.   I wanted to try a new 194, but did not have = one.

 

Can anyone help........Have you see something similar?....could it be the set up procedure in Windata, which comes = with the 194.   It has a set up window for values, and should be set to = +10 volts and -10 volts.

 

I don't think it is the = sensor.

I don't think it is Amaseis or = Winquake.

I don't think it is the = computer.

I don't think it is the = cables......

 

Thanks, Ted

Subject: Re: Negative clipping in AmaSeis From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 05:08:07 -0600 Dale, I will email Jim at the school, and they can do this for = sure............Thanks ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Dale Hardy=20 To: psnlist@................. Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 2:54 AM Subject: RE: Negative clipping in AmaSeis Hi Ted, You need to be sure that a negative voltage is being generated by the = sensor. One simple way to test the DataQ device is to apply 1.5v, ( dry cell = battery ) to the DataQ unit, observe the deflection in Amaseis then = reverse the polarity and the deflection should be opposite but equal. =20 Regards Dale =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: psnlist-request@.............. = [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Ted Channel Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2010 11:17 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Negative clipping in AmaSeis =20 Hi Folks, I have used DataQ194 ad converters, and 158. Big price = differences so I use more of the 194. =20 Mostly they work fine. However from time to time a system will have = negative clipping, nothing below zero, unless you jump close to the = machine and then is shows negative values. =20 We installed a new system, in a school three hours away. They = recorded their first earthquake, but because of the clipping the data is = useless. It carrys over into Winquake and filtering does nothing to = improve it. =20 I had a similar problem, changed the 194, and install a 158 the = problem went away. Reinstalled the 194, the problem returned. I = wanted to try a new 194, but did not have one. =20 Can anyone help........Have you see something similar?....could it be = the set up procedure in Windata, which comes with the 194. It has a = set up window for values, and should be set to +10 volts and -10 volts. =20 I don't think it is the sensor. I don't think it is Amaseis or Winquake. I don't think it is the computer. I don't think it is the cables...... =20 Thanks, Ted
Dale,  I will email Jim at the = school, and=20 they can do this for sure............Thanks
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dale = Hardy
Sent: Thursday, October 21, = 2010 2:54=20 AM
Subject: RE: Negative clipping = in=20 AmaSeis

Hi=20 Ted,

You need to = be sure=20 that a negative voltage is being generated by the=20 sensor.

One simple = way to=20 test the DataQ device is to apply 1.5v, ( dry cell battery ) to the = DataQ=20 unit, observe the deflection in Amaseis  then reverse the = polarity and=20 the deflection should be opposite but = equal.

 

Regards

Dale

 

From: psnlist-request@webtronics= ..com=20 [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On=20 Behalf Of Ted Channel
Sent: Thursday, 21 October 2010 = 11:17=20 AM
To:=20 psnlist@..............
Subject: Negative clipping in=20 AmaSeis

 

Hi Folks,   I = have used=20 DataQ194 ad converters, and 158.   Big price differences so = I use=20 more of the 194.

 

Mostly they work = fine.  =20 However from time to time a system will have negative clipping, = nothing below=20 zero, unless you jump close to the machine and then is shows negative=20 values.

 

We installed a new = system, in a=20 school three hours away.    They recorded their first=20 earthquake, but because of the clipping the data is = useless.   It=20 carrys over into Winquake and filtering does nothing to improve=20 it.

 

I had a similar problem, = changed=20 the 194, and install a 158 the problem went away.   = Reinstalled the=20 194, the problem returned.   I wanted to try a new 194, but = did not=20 have one.

 

Can anyone = help........Have you=20 see something similar?....could it be the set up procedure in Windata, = which=20 comes with the 194.   It has a set up window for values, and = should=20 be set to +10 volts and -10 volts.

 

I don't think it is the=20 sensor.

I don't think it is = Amaseis or=20 Winquake.

I don't think it is the=20 computer.

I don't think it is the=20 cables......

 

Thanks,=20 = Ted

Subject: Re: Negative clipping in AmaSeis From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:48:31 +0000 Hello Ted: For those negative clipped at zero outputs. You might have to add between the amp and the A/D an op amp which floats at half B+ (Half B+ being Zero on the output, then sums the output of what you are looking at. Then Larry's A/D boards which look at +/- power schemes should work within +/- 5 to 10 volts Peak. In other words an adaptor circuit of some kind. I am now using Larry's 16bit Board which is much better For This Purpose than the other one I was using. Programming the board is a challenge unless you can understand the DLL which seems to be directly talking to the A/D board. The stimuli and responses of the board. The various commands so to speak. The microcode on the A/D board. At the moment I will not try a custom program for the board because it works A-Ok as it is with his software. If Larry's Boards were universal it would allow a mode for single supply class "A" operation. At the moment it is sort of like class "B" Push-Pull. Or, Class "A" Double Supply. Single Supply Class "A" (360deg reproduction) amplifier, although it produces the most faithful reproductions, is a power hog. Class "B" (180deg reproduction) is more power friendly yet produces slight distortions in the output where it crosses zero. As you can guess, Class "B" Push Pull which seems to be the case for Operational Amplifiers, is two amplifiers internal to the chip, each reproducing one half the wave form with both resting at zero between the two supplies. There might be new ideas today which I have never heard of. My formal education is quite old. Regards, geoff -----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 12:16 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Negative clipping in AmaSeis Hi Folks, I have used DataQ194 ad converters, and 158. Big price differences so I use more of the 194. Mostly they work fine. However from time to time a system will have negative clipping, nothing below zero, unless you jump close to the machine and then is shows negative values. We installed a new system, in a school three hours away. They recorded their first earthquake, but because of the clipping the data is useless. It carrys over into Winquake and filtering does nothing to improve it. I had a similar problem, changed the 194, and install a 158 the problem went away. Reinstalled the 194, the problem returned. I wanted to try a new 194, but did not have one. Can anyone help........Have you see something similar?....could it be the set up procedure in Windata, which comes with the 194. It has a set up window for values, and should be set to +10 volts and -10 volts. I don't think it is the sensor. I don't think it is Amaseis or Winquake. I don't think it is the computer. I don't think it is the cables...... Thanks, Ted __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Gulf Of California Recent Event From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 01:30:26 +0000 HELLO PSN; As Related to the Gulf Of California Quake In this image file you can see what looks like two small foreshocks to the main one. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/LATEST.GIF OTHER FORMATS: http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/LATEST.JPG http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/LATEST.BMP http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/LATEST.PNG I will post the latest events which I catch on my website. Always using this form. As well as the PSN file to the events area. Regards; geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Gulf Of California Recent Event From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 22:39:21 -0500 Geoff, It seems they couldn't make up their minds. First, it was a 6.9. Then a 6.9 followed by a 6.7 and then late today they dropped it to two 6.7's just several seconds apart. And finally one to 6.7. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Gulf Of California Recent Event From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:19:25 +0000 I don’t know why such a thing has to do with me, since, they get reports by the zillions. All I know is the first reports are only preliminary until a proper person makes the final decisions. Kinda like you cant be guilty unless tried in a proper court of law. Or so Criminology says. -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Dick Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 3:39 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Gulf Of California Recent Event Geoff, It seems they couldn't make up their minds. First, it was a 6.9. Then a 6.9 followed by a 6.7 and then late today they dropped it to two 6.7's just several seconds apart. And finally one to 6.7. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Gulf Of California Recent Event From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:48:20 -0500 On 10/22/2010 6:19 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > I don’t know why such a thing has to do > with me, since, they get reports > by the zillions. All I know is the first > reports are only preliminary until.... I am sure it doesn't have anything to do with you. If anything, it has to do with funding. They can't afford to keep professors looking at the data all the time. We had one over here a couple of years ago. The site moved almost twenty miles from the quake to the final data. I have seen the national quakes change as well. I usually wait over two hours...even over night before posting. But one this big, should get better attention. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Gulf Of California Recent Event From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 20:16:41 +0000 Hello Mr. Dick, It seems to me that USGS is primarily interested in damaging quakes. So if the quake caused little or no damage it will not be analyzed so quickly. But the Government does nor need Professors to do its work. To me, a Professor is a Phd in the Academic World and not the Physical Work World. Academic meaning the teaching of people. I know that the government will hire dedicated Scientist who pay no attention to teaching anyone but the government and I do not call such people Academia. When I went to ASU for a short while (I did not like the environment since some really threatening people were students and teachers there) and learned you rarely see the professors in the classroom. They usually have a graduate student teaching. Some with poor English abilities and little tolerance. If only they had non-competitive education like some of the military schools with maybe 5 students at a time. The courses in the military are like 500 series courses much more interesting than any civilian one I ever had. But I know the USGS most likely has Resident Geophysics people who do nothing but this seismology stuff. I do not call such people Professors (Educators). Anycase, what I have to say is relatively meaningless so take it all with a grain of salt. (7000 grains to the avd. pound.) I think this Public Geology stuff is just humoring the masses and what they are really doing is looking for new Resources or Nuclear blasting ( which can also be for construction use). Pure science just for knowledge alone is frowned upon by those in power/money, or so it seems to me. I once saw in the library a plan to blast a sea level canal through Panama using Nuclear Devices. Many people are against such a thing. Regards; geoff -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Dick Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 4:48 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Gulf Of California Recent Event On 10/22/2010 6:19 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > I don’t know why such a thing has to do > with me, since, they get reports > by the zillions. All I know is the first > reports are only preliminary until.... I am sure it doesn't have anything to do with you. If anything, it has to do with funding. They can't afford to keep professors looking at the data all the time. We had one over here a couple of years ago. The site moved almost twenty miles from the quake to the final data. I have seen the national quakes change as well. I usually wait over two hours...even over night before posting. But one this big, should get better attention. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Gulf Of California Recent Event From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 17:06:26 -0500 Geoff; I, too, have experience these feelings. I spent a lot of my time around college reps trying to get my students to come to their schools. My son set me straight. Don't be too hard on the academia world. It isn't all that simple. > It seems to me that USGS is primarily interested > in damaging quakes. So if the quake caused > little or no damage it will not be analyzed so > quickly. The money for the seismic apparatus in this country came out of a need (or out of a financial justification) to monitor for atomic bomb blasts...and this has proved its worth. > But the Government does nor need > Professors to do its work. > To me, a Professor is a Phd in the > Academic World and not the Physical Work World. I don't know about ASU but generally there are two forms of colleges; the practical and the theoritical/technical. Here Purdue is the practical and IU is the theoritical/technical. Purdue is agriculture and engineering etc while IU is the medical, chemistry, law direction. Smaller schools specialize (teaching or chemistry or business etc). > Academic meaning the teaching of people. > I know that the government will hire dedicated Scientist > who pay no attention to teaching anyone Here is the big rub most people don't know about. The major colleges/universities require their "big" professors to do and are hired to do research. It used to be called "publish or parish". Their jobs depend on the quantity of their research which in most cases is way above the technological understanding of the layman. This research takes a lot of their time and it is time depended too. They protect it from others that might pirate it. They are given assistants to teach the undergrads and do a professor's "bidding" .... like monitoring equipment. Many times our questions seem so elementary that they are too simple or the answers are deeply seated in physics which is a weak area in most educational circles--and individual expertize. Possibly, the questions are things that could be gotten by just reading science literature on the subject area -- or taking basic classes. At other times, the professor might be about to publish something in that vary area. There is only one area where amateur science has kept up with academia. It is in astronomy where the time needed for observation exceeds the time that can be spent and the cheaper quality equipment has made the amateur a respectable contributor. Don't get bent out of shape! __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Gulf Of California Recent Event From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 06:56:22 +0000 -----Original Message----- From: Thomas Dick Sent: Friday, October 22, 2010 10:06 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Gulf Of California Recent Event Geoff; I, too, have experience these feelings. I spent a lot of my time around college reps trying to get my students to come to their schools. My son set me straight. Don't be too hard on the academia world. It isn't all that simple. > It seems to me that USGS is primarily interested > in damaging quakes. So if the quake caused > little or no damage it will not be analyzed so > quickly. The money for the seismic apparatus in this country came out of a need (or out of a financial justification) to monitor for atomic bomb blasts...and this has proved its worth. > But the Government does nor need > Professors to do its work. > To me, a Professor is a Phd in the > Academic World and not the Physical Work World. I don't know about ASU but generally there are two forms of colleges; the practical and the theoritical/technical. Here Purdue is the practical and IU is the theoritical/technical. Purdue is agriculture and engineering etc while IU is the medical, chemistry, law direction. Smaller schools specialize (teaching or chemistry or business etc). > Academic meaning the teaching of people. > I know that the government will hire dedicated Scientist > who pay no attention to teaching anyone Here is the big rub most people don't know about. The major colleges/universities require their "big" professors to do and are hired to do research. It used to be called "publish or parish". Their jobs depend on the quantity of their research which in most cases is way above the technological understanding of the layman. This research takes a lot of their time and it is time depended too. They protect it from others that might pirate it. They are given assistants to teach the undergrads and do a professor's "bidding" .... like monitoring equipment. Many times our questions seem so elementary that they are too simple or the answers are deeply seated in physics which is a weak area in most educational circles--and individual expertize. Possibly, the questions are things that could be gotten by just reading science literature on the subject area -- or taking basic classes. At other times, the professor might be about to publish something in that vary area. There is only one area where amateur science has kept up with academia. It is in astronomy where the time needed for observation exceeds the time that can be spent and the cheaper quality equipment has made the amateur a respectable contributor. Don't get bent out of shape! __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Howdy All; Hello Mr.Dick; I like to talk, but not in person. Too many people have beat me up in the past. Really, with fists and other things as well as drugs and Psychology and other garbage like that. The normal person does not really want to communicate. Meanderings of a crazy Enlisted Volunteer USN Sonar technician Who after visiting it, turned down an appointment to Annapolis MD USN Academy When I was 17, During The Draft Cold War Era. I have never known a last name like this before. Aboard the USS Long Beach CGN9 there was a Petty Officer Hyman who took a ribbing all the time. I saw lots of funny names. And a Petty Officer Goodenough in boot camp . My name means FOOT (DUTCH) or so I understand, In a Nazi eugenic way, and not a foot soldier or runner. My ancestor seems here before or around the civil war. Not ELLIS ISLAND. Who Like Other Techs played around with Americas Tactical Nuclear weapons Under the PRP ( Personnel Reliability Program) Who had the medical world watching and testing everything we did. They put a magenta sheet in our medical records with a Triangle, I guess each side being one of the Nuclear triad. Sea Air And Land, At least one will get through. There are few more cold hearted people in the world then the medical world. Only the Doctors take the Oath to do no harm, willing to defy the evil side of the system. I really wonder who started inventing human names. Social Security numbers make more sense to me. Your Last name makes me think of a detective. Which is like a scientist in the wrong field. Do you use a pseudonym or is that your real name ? I have relatives in the theater who will not use their real names on the stage. All I know is I got my own life to live and let no one interfere. If I'm bent out of shape its over the social insects who have destroyed any decent sense of self and life. The Cops/Security peoples are undereducated Neanderthals, Who if not hired to be police, would most likely be criminals with their type A personalities, The religious are undereducated. The justice system is non-existent. The Constitution is blatantly ignored the most important authorities who think wrongly they are the Authority and not the written law governing their various offices. I am not kidding when I say these bad authorities have taken/robbed 30 or more years of my life with their religious, undereducated, Type A shenanigans. I blame everything bad about this world on dumb Authority figures who refuse to legislate to limit the world population to 800E006 or less without any one culture becoming dominant. To favor the individual over the group. With a government that is constant and just and like a machine everyone can use. Life itself, is too cheap, because of all of "them". They instigate, under the covers, many unreasonable human deaths. This Seismic Stuff is the single most relaxing thing I do other than uninterrupted sleep. It is my belief that after what has been done to me that the only justice will be a large meteor striking the Earth from Sunward so it catches everyone by surprise. I am powerless to set things right. If man is made extinct then I will not be forced to repeat life as man on planet Earth. No matter what I like this seismic stuff. It has no bad side which I can see. Driving Forces in my Amateur Seismic Life; Never A leader Or Follower be. Responsibility without Power simply makes one a whipping boy. Power without responsibility makes one a dictator. Why do they make a non-existent god the responsible for everything ??? So they can all be petty-dictators and not take any blame. Religion is the science of placing the blame where it does not belong. Religion is a an educational conspiracy to cross the generations. I can never accept this kind of conspiracy in my Country Which in reality belongs only ONLY in Europe. I wish no one harm. Yet I Will Do My Duty. As I understand it to be. Independent of the mores and norms of others. ( I do have my own, independent of religion, and, relating to the Pentagon ) Priorities: 8 hours for the self. 8 hours sleeping. 8 hours for the State. State == Federal Government. Not, Village, City, County, Or, State I was not raised in one place, But like a Gypsy, all over the place called the USA. I was raised absent of religion. If I Offended Anyone, That Was Not My Intention. My Intention is Just to let you see inside a piece of my uncensored soul. Something the Jews have told me, one should never do. Best Regards; geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: 7.5 coming in from NW of Australia From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 15:19:28 +0000 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Winsdr/Winquake and Windows Vista and windows 7 From: "Dave Nelson" davefnelson@....... Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 21:44:08 -0000 In their infinite wisdom Microsoft has added some 'features" in the = later versions of windows under the general heading of "User Account = Control". These new capabilities can and will modify the way Winsdr and = probably Winquake operate in the system. Specifically windows will = modify the channel .ini files and the winsdr.ini files to "redirect' = the data files to a location deeply buried in a user folder. If you = are like me, I like those files in the same directory as the program.=20 This link is an excellent summary of the problem and how to deal with = it.=20 http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/developers/archive/2009/08/04/user-a= ccount-control-data-redirection.aspx This is not a fault in Larry's software , just the way the newer Windows = deal with data files in the context of multi user systems=20 I am definitely NOT a software guru so this would be a good time for = those who are more knowledgeable than I to add information on this = subject=20 Regards, Dave Nelson Rolling Hills Estates , California
In their infinite wisdom Microsoft has = added some=20 'features" in the later versions of windows under the general heading of = "User=20 Account Control". These new capabilities can and will modify = the  way=20 Winsdr and probably Winquake operate in the system. Specifically windows = will=20 modify the channel .ini files and the winsdr.ini files = to "redirect'=20  the data files to a location  deeply buried in a user =20 folder.  If you are like me, I like those files in the same = directory=20 as the program. 
 
This link is an excellent summary of = the problem=20 and how to deal with it. 
 
http://windowsteamblog.com/= windows/b/developers/archive/2009/08/04/user-account-control-data-redirec= tion.aspx
 
This is not a fault in Larry's software = , just the=20 way the newer Windows deal with data files in the context of multi user = systems=20
 
I am definitely NOT a software guru so = this would=20 be a good time for those who are more knowledgeable than I to add = information on=20 this subject
 
Regards,
 
Dave Nelson
Rolling Hills Estates ,=20 California
Subject: Re: Winsdr/Winquake and Windows Vista and windows 7 From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 00:52:22 -0700 Thanks for the information Dave. I upgraded to Win 7, from XP, a few months ago. I must admit I really like it. It boots up a lot faster then XP. I have not run into this problem, but I disabled UAC and log into an account that has admin privileges. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 10/26/2010 2:44 PM, Dave Nelson wrote: > In their infinite wisdom Microsoft has added some 'features" in the later versions of > windows under the general heading of "User Account Control". These new capabilities > can and will modify the way Winsdr and probably Winquake operate in the system. > Specifically windows will modify the channel .ini files and the winsdr.ini files to > "redirect' the data files to a location deeply buried in a user folder. If you are > like me, I like those files in the same directory as the program. > This link is an excellent summary of the problem and how to deal with it. > http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/developers/archive/2009/08/04/user-account-control-data-redirection.aspx > This is not a fault in Larry's software , just the way the newer Windows deal with > data files in the context of multi user systems > I am definitely NOT a software guru so this would be a good time for those who are > more knowledgeable than I to add information on this subject > Regards, > Dave Nelson > Rolling Hills Estates , California __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: New Latest event Distribution Method For GVA From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:09:58 +0000 Hello PSN; I now have a direct HTML style page now to see my latest signal. Latest event being from the Entrance to the Gulf Of California. Since my recorder is not connected to the internet I must update this by hand and will not show the smaller events or events outside about a 1000 mile radius. Feel free to; download whatever or view, this site. But there is no security guarantees if the site is ever hacked. Latest Signal Only; http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/LATEST/LATEST.HTML The GENERAL website is as follows: http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/index.html Comments are welcome. Email me direct if so desired. Prosit or Cheers; geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: GPS RECEIVER From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 15:44:03 +0000 Hello PSN: Many of you have this gps receiver to get good times on your graphs and over time you should learn any problems. I have found one Which I do not know how to beat. There seems to be RFI related problems where the in the presence of a high energy RF field of some frequency the GPS signal or A/D board is being jammed and the lock is lost and an alarm will sound. This problem is not the fault of of the device but simply related to the fact the unwanted RF signal has penetrated the electronics. Can anyone tell me if they have successfully won the battle of when like a police car or fire truck or other government car is outside in the neighborhood with a 25 watt transmitter maybe 100ft away and using their radio ? It wipes out my data and everything for a minute or so. This mostly happens in the winter when the city here grows three times its normal population. Comments ? geoff or, grumbly in Arizona. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:43:55 -0000 Hi, I have never had a GPS signal jammed because of some other transmitters that are being used close to my GPS antenna. Regards, Jón Frímann. > Hello PSN: > > Many of you have this gps receiver to get good times on your graphs > and over time you should learn any problems. > > I have found one Which I do not know how to beat. > > There seems to be RFI related problems > where the in the presence of a high energy RF field > of some frequency the GPS signal or A/D board is being > jammed and the lock is lost and an alarm will sound. > > This problem is not the fault of of the device > but simply related to the fact the unwanted RF signal > has penetrated the electronics. > > Can anyone tell me if they have successfully won > the battle of when like a police car or fire truck > or other government car is outside in the neighborhood with a 25 watt > transmitter maybe 100ft away and using their radio ? > > It wipes out my data and everything for a minute or so. > > This mostly happens in the winter when the city > here grows three times its normal population. > > Comments ? > > geoff > > or, grumbly in Arizona. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: GPS RECEIVER From: Jack Ivey ivey@.......... Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:07:07 -0400 You're sure it's RF and not something else? There was an infamous case in Monterey Bay that disabled GPS on-and-off for months. Turned out to be that bane of the=20 radio amateur, a faulty TV amplifier in someone's=20 attic. You might want to check your own house, although it could also be a neighbor. =20 -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... ] On Behalf Of jonfr@......... Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:44 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER Hi, I have never had a GPS signal jammed because of some other transmitters that are being used close to my GPS antenna. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > Hello PSN: > > Many of you have this gps receiver to get good times on your graphs > and over time you should learn any problems. > > I have found one Which I do not know how to beat. > > There seems to be RFI related problems > where the in the presence of a high energy RF field > of some frequency the GPS signal or A/D board is being > jammed and the lock is lost and an alarm will sound. > > This problem is not the fault of of the device > but simply related to the fact the unwanted RF signal > has penetrated the electronics. > > Can anyone tell me if they have successfully won > the battle of when like a police car or fire truck > or other government car is outside in the neighborhood with a 25 watt > transmitter maybe 100ft away and using their radio ? > > It wipes out my data and everything for a minute or so. > > This mostly happens in the winter when the city > here grows three times its normal population. > > Comments ? > > geoff > > or, grumbly in Arizona. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with=20 the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: michaeld mike.wizard@......... Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 11:25:25 -0700 The active TV antennas mounted on boat masts were a major contributor to on= e case of GPS interference. Michael On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Jack Ivey wrote: > You're sure it's RF and not something else? > > There was an infamous case in Monterey Bay that disabled GPS > on-and-off for months. Turned out to be that bane of the > radio amateur, a faulty TV amplifier in someone's > attic. You might want to check your own house, although > it could also be a neighbor. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto: > psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of jonfr@......... > Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:44 PM > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER > > Hi, > > I have never had a GPS signal jammed because of some other transmitters > that are being used close to my GPS antenna. > > Regards, > J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > > > Hello PSN: > > > > Many of you have this gps receiver to get good times on your graphs > > and over time you should learn any problems. > > > > I have found one Which I do not know how to beat. > > > > There seems to be RFI related problems > > where the in the presence of a high energy RF field > > of some frequency the GPS signal or A/D board is being > > jammed and the lock is lost and an alarm will sound. > > > > This problem is not the fault of of the device > > but simply related to the fact the unwanted RF signal > > has penetrated the electronics. > > > > Can anyone tell me if they have successfully won > > the battle of when like a police car or fire truck > > or other government car is outside in the neighborhood with a 25 watt > > transmitter maybe 100ft away and using their radio ? > > > > It wipes out my data and everything for a minute or so. > > > > This mostly happens in the winter when the city > > here grows three times its normal population. > > > > Comments ? > > > > geoff > > > > or, grumbly in Arizona. > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > The active TV antennas mounted on boat masts were a major contributor to on= e case of GPS interference.
Michael

On= Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Jack Ivey <ivey@..........> wrote:
You're sure i= t's RF and not something else?

There was an infamous case in Monterey Bay that disabled GPS
on-and-off for months. =A0Turned out to be that bane of the
radio amateur, a faulty TV amplifier in someone's
attic. =A0You might want to check your own house, although
it could also be a neighbor.


-----Original Message-----
From: psnlist-request@web= tronics.com [mailto:p= snlist-request@..............] On Behalf Of jonfr@.........
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 12:44 PM
To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER

Hi,

I have never had a GPS signal jammed because of some other transmitters
that are being used close to my GPS antenna.

Regards,
J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

> Hello PSN:
>
> Many of you have this gps receiver to get good times on your graphs > and over time you should learn any problems.
>
> I have found one Which I do not know how to beat.
>
> There seems to be RFI related problems
> where the in the presence of a high energy RF field
> of some frequency the GPS signal or A/D board is being
> jammed and the lock is lost and an alarm will sound.
>
> This problem is not the fault of of the device
> but simply related to the fact the unwanted RF signal
> has penetrated the electronics.
>
> Can anyone tell me if they have successfully won
> the battle of when like a police car or fire truck
> or other government car is outside in the neighborhood with a 25 watt<= br> > transmitter maybe 100ft away and using their radio ?
>
> It wipes out my data and everything for a minute or so.
>
> This mostly happens in the winter when the city
> here grows three times its normal population.
>
> Comments ?
>
> geoff
>
> or, grumbly in Arizona.
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
>
> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>
> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with
> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
>


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the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
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__________________________________________________________

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the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
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Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: KipECS@....... Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 16:16:33 EDT It would seem you have a section of data line acting as an antenna,=20 perhaps poor ground, shield, loose connection or cold solder joint acting= as a=20 detector of sorts. It's highly unlikely that normal terrestrial based=20 communications would effect a GPS device since most work hand in hand, ar= e=20 separated by substantial frequency differences and selective filtering so= best to=20 look else ware for your Gremlin. =20 In some cases RF permeates a wire pair that is close to a wavelength=20 and/or multiples of an offending signal, the antenna effect. For example,= if=20 the offending VHF frequency has a quarter-wavelength of 15 inches make su= re=20 that pair of wires is less or more then 15 inches and not multiples of th= e=20 15 inches. Another dirty and cheap trick is putting a small loose loop= in=20 your data line or using a iron torrid suited for the specific offending= =20 frequency range.=20 =20 Another avenue for RF is through the power source interconnection, this= =20 type of RF clamping is easily accomplished by using a 25 pf capacitor (I'= ve=20 found works well @ VHF) from an input (power or signal) to ground. The= =20 offending RF is seen as an AC signal and bypassed to ground allowing the= DC=20 power or data to continue unimpeded. Lastly, I have had success lifting= the=20 ground from one end of a shielded cable, you may have to experiment with= what=20 end that affords you the best results if any. =20 I'm trying to cover most bases here because your situation is vague and= I=20 can't see the actual installation but I can sure understand the=20 aggravation. =20 =20 Regards, Cliff =20 =20 In a message dated 11/1/2010 12:44:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, =20 jonfr@......... writes: Hi, I have never had a GPS signal jammed because of some other transmitters that are being used close to my GPS antenna. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > Hello PSN: > > Many of you have this gps receiver to get good times on your graphs > and over time you should learn any problems. > > I have found one Which I do not know how to beat. > > There seems to be RFI related problems > where the in the presence of a high energy RF field > of some frequency the GPS signal or A/D board is being > jammed and the lock is lost and an alarm will sound. > > This problem is not the fault of of the device > but simply related to the fact the unwanted RF signal > has penetrated the electronics. > > Can anyone tell me if they have successfully won > the battle of when like a police car or fire truck > or other government car is outside in the neighborhood with a 25 watt > transmitter maybe 100ft away and using their radio ? > > It wipes out my data and everything for a minute or so. > > This mostly happens in the winter when the city > here grows three times its normal population. > > Comments ? > > geoff > > or, grumbly in Arizona. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with=20 the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. <= FONT id=3Drole_document color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>
It would seem you have a section of data line act= ing as=20 an antenna, perhaps poor ground, shield, loose connection or cold solder= =20 joint acting as a detector of sorts. It's highly unlikely that normal= =20 terrestrial based communications would effect a GPS device since most work= hand=20 in hand, are separated by substantial frequency differences and selective= =20 filtering so best to look else ware for your Gremlin.
 
 In some cases RF permeates a wire pair that= is=20 close to a wavelength and/or multiples of an offending signal, the an= tenna=20 effect. For example, if the offending VHF frequency has=20 a quarter-wavelength of 15 inches make sure that pair of wires= is less=20 or more then 15 inches and not multiples of the 15 inches.=20 Another dirty and cheap trick is putting a small loose=20 loop in your data line or using a iron torrid suited for the specific= =20 offending frequency range.
 
Another avenue for RF is through the power source= =20 interconnection, this type of RF clamping is easily accomplished= by=20 using a 25 pf capacitor (I've found works well @ VHF)  = ;from=20 an input (power or signal) to ground. The offending RF is seen as an= =20 AC signal and bypassed to ground allowing the DC power or data t= o=20 continue unimpeded. Lastly, I have had success lifting the groun= d from=20 one end of a shielded cable, you may have to experiment with what end = ;that=20 affords you the best results if any.
 
 I'm trying to cover most bases here because your= =20 situation is vague and I can't see the actual installation but I can= sure=20 understand the aggravation.  
 
Regards,
Cliff
 
In a message dated 11/1/2010 12:44:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 jonfr@......... writes:
Hi,

I have never had a GPS signal= jammed because of some=20 other transmitters
that are being used close to my GPS=20 antenna.

Regards,
J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

> Hello=20 PSN:
>
> Many of you have this gps receiver to get good time= s on=20 your graphs
> and over time you should learn any=20 problems.
>
> I have found one Which I do not know how to=20 beat.
>
> There seems to be RFI related problems
> whe= re the=20 in the presence of a high energy RF field
> of some frequency the= GPS=20 signal or A/D board is being
> jammed and the lock is lost and an= alarm=20 will sound.
>
> This problem is not the fault of of the=20 device
> but simply related to the fact the unwanted RF signal
= >=20 has penetrated the electronics.
>
> Can anyone tell me if th= ey=20 have successfully won
> the battle of when like a police car or fi= re=20 truck
> or other government car is outside in the neighborhood wit= h a 25=20 watt
> transmitter maybe 100ft away and using their radio=20 ?
>
> It wipes out my data and everything for a minute or=20 so.
>
> This mostly happens in the winter when the city
&= gt;=20 here grows three times its normal population.
>
> Comments= =20 ?
>
> geoff
>
> or, grumbly in=20 Arizona.
>
>
>=20 __________________________________________________________
>
&g= t;=20 Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>
> To leave= this=20 list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with
> the body of the= message=20 (first line only): unsubscribe
> See=20 http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more=20 information.
>


________________________________________= __________________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email= =20 PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first= line=20 only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.
Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: "Jim Santee" jsantee@............ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 13:31:02 -0700 Radio interference by transmitters is quite common in a number of other = applications. There are several factors that come to mind: 1. The power output of the transmitter leaks into the circuit due to = proximity i.e. next door to a high power station. 2. The wiring of the circuit suffering the interference be close to the = wavelength of the transmitting frequency. 3. The lack of shielding in the circuit being interfered with. 4. The harmonics - i.e. multiples or submultiples is a simple term for = this - from the transmitter leaking into the circuit. You can find yourself chasing your tail on this. Here is a suggestion: 1. Shielded cable - but watch out - your shield can act as a receiving = antenna as well. If you are still suffering try and lift the ground = connection on one end of the shield. You could have a ground loop = arrangement. Sometimes you get better results with the ground be = attached to one end of the circuit. There are decoupling devices to = prevent ground loops. 2. Ferrite beads are a great help in eliminating interference. You place = a number of small beads on each wire and the beads act as a filter. If = you notice on some computer wiring that you will see a drum like device = on the ends of cables, this is a large ferrite bead. You can also try = this method. The worst offender for interference is cheap fluorescent lighting from = home centers. These buggers can really mess things up. You can try = grounding the fixture to see what happens but you still notice some = buzzing. You shop some surplus outlets and might find some Navy surplus = shielded fluorescent light fixtures and these might help. You can also = try placing metal mesh over the light to see if this also helps out. Jim Santee
Radio interference by transmitters is = quite common=20 in a number of other applications. There are several factors that come = to=20 mind:
1. The power output of the transmitter = leaks into=20 the circuit due to proximity i.e. next door to a high power=20 station.
2. The wiring of the circuit suffering = the=20 interference be close to the wavelength of the transmitting=20 frequency.
3. The lack of shielding in the circuit = being=20 interfered with.
4. The harmonics - i.e. multiples or = submultiples=20 is a simple term for this -  from the transmitter leaking into the=20 circuit.
 
You can find yourself chasing your tail = on this.=20 Here is a suggestion:
1. Shielded cable - but watch out - = your shield can=20 act as a receiving antenna as well. If you are still suffering try and = lift the=20 ground connection on one end of the shield. You could have a ground loop = arrangement. Sometimes you get better results with the ground be = attached to one=20 end of the circuit. There are decoupling devices to prevent ground=20 loops.
2. Ferrite beads are a great help in = eliminating=20 interference. You place a number of small beads on each wire and the = beads act=20 as a filter. If you notice on some computer wiring that you will see a = drum like=20 device on the ends of cables, this is a large ferrite bead. You can also = try=20 this method.
 
The worst offender for interference is = cheap=20 fluorescent lighting from home centers. These buggers can really mess = things up.=20 You can try grounding the fixture to see what happens but you still = notice some=20 buzzing. You shop some surplus outlets and might find some Navy surplus = shielded=20 fluorescent light fixtures and these might help. You can also try = placing metal=20 mesh over the light to see if this also helps out.
 
Jim Santee
Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 00:16:54 +0000 Hello Jón, You live in a Country which most likely is not as lawless as this one. Is not as crowded. We have laws, more than you want to think about. But this RFI stuff is not enforced unless it interferes with important stuff. Back East I saw all kinds of FCC trucks loaded with antennas but not out west here, West of the Mississippi. I swear, if all our laws were enforced there would be civil war here. Only major laws are actively enforced and the tiny ones are saved for the discretion of the officials. They can use the tiny laws to make any person they wants life to be hell on earth. while leaving everyone else do what they want. But, enough, I will live with my problem, I see a heavy vehicle pass by some times on my chart just before the blackout of data. If the software could reset itself 100 % after a blackout The problem is pretty much solved. I get an audio alarm for awhile then have to reset it myself. But this is not common at the moment. I just made a change to the receiver putting it on a pole, above metal awnings, will see how this works. Should give me a stronger signal. Thanks for the replies. Regards, geoff -----Original Message----- From: jonfr@......... Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 4:43 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER Hi, I have never had a GPS signal jammed because of some other transmitters that are being used close to my GPS antenna. Regards, Jón Frímann. > Hello PSN: > > Many of you have this gps receiver to get good times on your graphs > and over time you should learn any problems. > > I have found one Which I do not know how to beat. > > There seems to be RFI related problems > where the in the presence of a high energy RF field > of some frequency the GPS signal or A/D board is being > jammed and the lock is lost and an alarm will sound. > > This problem is not the fault of of the device > but simply related to the fact the unwanted RF signal > has penetrated the electronics. > > Can anyone tell me if they have successfully won > the battle of when like a police car or fire truck > or other government car is outside in the neighborhood with a 25 watt > transmitter maybe 100ft away and using their radio ? > > It wipes out my data and everything for a minute or so. > > This mostly happens in the winter when the city > here grows three times its normal population. > > Comments ? > > geoff > > or, grumbly in Arizona. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: "Jim Santee" jsantee@............ Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2010 20:24:30 -0700 "But this RFI stuff is not enforced unless it interferes with important stuff" RFI is not as simple as "off or on". The issue can be quite complicated. The consumer electronics industry generally tries to get away with the cheapest stuff possible. If you remember the Radio Shack TRS-80 computer of the 1980's aka "Trash 80". This was one of the biggest generators of RFI ever to hit the consumer market. Then there are some products that are electronically "naturally noisy" and there is not much you can do about it. The commercial two way radio market this is much more regulated and built to little higher standard. But you are dealing with consumer electronics in nearby homes that are built to the cheapest standards that will allow unwanted interference in the system and then home owners demand the commercial user clean up the mess that the home owner actually created themselves. If you have twenty feet of speaker wire from your home stereo running near the front of your home this will act like a receiving antenna and sometimes pick up a two way radio be used in a car driving near by. If you have an external FM antenna with a cheap consumer receiver you can expect that now and then you are going to get hit with "10-4 good buddy" In the 1980's there was a big push to get the consumer electronics industry to better engineer their disposable junk to prevent interference from legitimate amateur and commercial users. At the time it was estimated that it would have cost about a few cents extra per radio. The industry raised hell and nothing was done. Getting into the commercial stuff. When you have a large radio site with multiple antennas, radios, circulators and duplexers you are going to have problems. This is why setting up these systems can be an engineering nightmare. But if done correctly interference within the site will be minimal. The problem being nearby by with cheap consumer radios that have no filters. This could be hell on earth. When all is said and done it is the end users to be aware of their own problems and take prudent action to add by pass capacitors, ferrite beads, and be careful of where they run the speakers and telephone wires. If there is an illegal radio interference issue then this has been be dealt with, but when complaining you have to be sure your own operation is technically up to standard. Here is one self imposed RFI issue: I knew of an electrician who had the job to run the housing wiring and speaker wiring for an upscale home. The idiot ran the speaker wiring right next to the AC lines. The 60 Hz hum made the high end entertainment system was useless. I have spent a lot of time dealing with this. This issue gets real ugly very quickly. I like discussions about this issue, the more people know the better people can react and solve problems. Jim __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: KipECS@....... Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 02:21:07 EDT Licensed or Part 15, those are the two choices In a message dated 11/1/2010 11:24:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jsantee@............ writes: "But this RFI stuff is not enforced unless it interferes with important stuff" RFI is not as simple as "off or on". The issue can be quite complicated. The consumer electronics industry generally tries to get away with the cheapest stuff possible. If you remember the Radio Shack TRS-80 computer of the 1980's aka "Trash 80". This was one of the biggest generators of RFI ever to hit the consumer market. Then there are some products that are electronically "naturally noisy" and there is not much you can do about it. The commercial two way radio market this is much more regulated and built to little higher standard. But you are dealing with consumer electronics in nearby homes that are built to the cheapest standards that will allow unwanted interference in the system and then home owners demand the commercial user clean up the mess that the home owner actually created themselves. If you have twenty feet of speaker wire from your home stereo running near the front of your home this will act like a receiving antenna and sometimes pick up a two way radio be used in a car driving near by. If you have an external FM antenna with a cheap consumer receiver you can expect that now and then you are going to get hit with "10-4 good buddy" In the 1980's there was a big push to get the consumer electronics industry to better engineer their disposable junk to prevent interference from legitimate amateur and commercial users. At the time it was estimated that it would have cost about a few cents extra per radio. The industry raised hell and nothing was done. Getting into the commercial stuff. When you have a large radio site with multiple antennas, radios, circulators and duplexers you are going to have problems. This is why setting up these systems can be an engineering nightmare. But if done correctly interference within the site will be minimal. The problem being nearby by with cheap consumer radios that have no filters. This could be hell on earth. When all is said and done it is the end users to be aware of their own problems and take prudent action to add by pass capacitors, ferrite beads, and be careful of where they run the speakers and telephone wires. If there is an illegal radio interference issue then this has been be dealt with, but when complaining you have to be sure your own operation is technically up to standard. Here is one self imposed RFI issue: I knew of an electrician who had the job to run the housing wiring and speaker wiring for an upscale home. The idiot ran the speaker wiring right next to the AC lines. The 60 Hz hum made the high end entertainment system was useless. I have spent a lot of time dealing with this. This issue gets real ugly very quickly. I like discussions about this issue, the more people know the better people can react and solve problems. Jim __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Licensed or Part 15, those are the two choices
 
In a message dated 11/1/2010 11:24:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,=20 jsantee@............ writes:
"But=20 this RFI stuff is not enforced unless it interferes with important=20
stuff"

RFI is not as simple as "off or on". The issue can be= quite=20 complicated. The
consumer electronics industry generally tries to ge= t away=20 with the cheapest
stuff possible. If you remember the Radio Shack TR= S-80=20 computer of the
1980's aka "Trash 80". This was one of the biggest= =20 generators of RFI ever to
hit the consumer market. Then there are so= me=20 products that are
electronically "naturally noisy" and there is not= much=20 you can do about it.

The commercial two way radio market this is= much=20 more regulated and built to
little higher standard. But you are deal= ing=20 with consumer electronics in
nearby homes that are built to the chea= pest=20 standards that will allow
unwanted interference in the system and th= en=20 home owners demand the
commercial user clean up the mess that the ho= me=20 owner actually created
themselves. If you have twenty feet of speake= r wire=20 from your home stereo
running near the front of your home this will= act=20 like a receiving antenna
and sometimes pick up a two way radio be us= ed in=20 a car driving near by. If
you have an external FM antenna with a che= ap=20 consumer receiver you can
expect that now and then you are going to= get=20 hit with "10-4 good buddy"

In the 1980's there was a big push to= get=20 the consumer electronics industry
to better engineer their disposabl= e junk=20 to prevent interference from
legitimate amateur and commercial users= .. At=20 the time it was estimated that
it would have cost about a few cents= extra=20 per radio. The industry raised
hell and nothing was done.

Get= ting=20 into the commercial stuff. When you have a large radio site with
mul= tiple=20 antennas, radios, circulators and duplexers you are going to have=20
problems. This is why setting up these systems can be an engineering= =20
nightmare. But if done correctly interference within the site will= be=20
minimal. The problem being nearby by with cheap consumer radios that= have=20 no
filters. This could be hell on earth.

When all is said and= done=20 it is the end users to be aware of their own
problems and take prude= nt=20 action to add by pass capacitors, ferrite beads,
and be careful of= where=20 they run the speakers and telephone wires. If there
is an illegal ra= dio=20 interference issue then this has been be dealt with, but
when compla= ining=20 you have to be sure your own operation is technically up to=20
standard.

Here is one self imposed RFI issue: I knew of an=20 electrician who had the job
to run the housing wiring and speaker wi= ring=20 for an upscale home. The idiot
ran the speaker wiring right next to= the AC=20 lines. The 60 Hz hum made the
high end entertainment system was=20 useless.

I have spent a lot of time dealing with this. This issue= gets=20 real ugly very
quickly. I like discussions about this issue, the mor= e=20 people know the
better people can react and solve=20 problems.

Jim

____________________________________________= ______________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email= =20 PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first= line=20 only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.
Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 13:39:28 +0000 Yes, there are many ways for RFI to get into circuitry. But skin effect means if you shield all circuitry with a faraday shield and put ferrite beads in contact with wires going in and out of that circuitry most possibly you can limit signals of like 1Mhz or more making entry into the device. BALUNS as I understand, keep outside and inside shielded signals from mingling. The low frequency of seismic signals means they travel deep within the wires and not in the surface only. I have seen boxes built to isolate wires but you need filters in their own cavities for every wire going in or out of the circuitry this means you build shielding like those Russian Dolls of one nested inside of another. Superbeads at microwave frequencies must be a tight fit around a wire and epoxied into place right against the metal box itself. Or it has little effectiveness. The other way is to use fiber optics I/O that does not pick up EM waves like an antenna, or so I understand. This all means very expensive results to get an RFI free circuitry. I feel like that robot on the tv commercial which hangs it head in dealing with rfi. cheers; geoff BTW, I just time tested the Locked GPS/A-D WinSDR setup purchased from Larry and it passed with flying colors. As did the system I had before Larry's. But Larry's A/D is superior to the 12 bit I was using. And, everything is much easier to put together. Unless you are a glutton for punishment, Larry's system is the way to go. I recommend you position the GPS receiver at some level above general life, maybe 7 or more feet above the floor with no metal on your roof. I attached it to an AC ground plane on top of a PVC pipe inside the kitchen and it seems to work OK. But still worry about radio stuff which can realistically do nothing about. Darn, Darn, to the mole power, No one builds for RFI today they just limit power levels to limit radiation OUT of a box. No one cares about INTO unless the emergency people happen to be around with their powerful transmitters. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Santee Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 8:31 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER Radio interference by transmitters is quite common in a number of other applications. There are several factors that come to mind: 1. The power output of the transmitter leaks into the circuit due to proximity i.e. next door to a high power station. 2. The wiring of the circuit suffering the interference be close to the wavelength of the transmitting frequency. 3. The lack of shielding in the circuit being interfered with. 4. The harmonics - i.e. multiples or submultiples is a simple term for this - from the transmitter leaking into the circuit. You can find yourself chasing your tail on this. Here is a suggestion: 1. Shielded cable - but watch out - your shield can act as a receiving antenna as well. If you are still suffering try and lift the ground connection on one end of the shield. You could have a ground loop arrangement. Sometimes you get better results with the ground be attached to one end of the circuit. There are decoupling devices to prevent ground loops. 2. Ferrite beads are a great help in eliminating interference. You place a number of small beads on each wire and the beads act as a filter. If you notice on some computer wiring that you will see a drum like device on the ends of cables, this is a large ferrite bead. You can also try this method. The worst offender for interference is cheap fluorescent lighting from home centers. These buggers can really mess things up. You can try grounding the fixture to see what happens but you still notice some buzzing. You shop some surplus outlets and might find some Navy surplus shielded fluorescent light fixtures and these might help. You can also try placing metal mesh over the light to see if this also helps out. Jim Santee __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 14:12:07 +0000 I think what it really comes down to is the capabilities and limitations of the civilian technology in addition to ability of people in general to pay for quality. Technology is not the device itself but the resources, monies and people collected to build whatever. Our technology is not built for privacy because if it were the Government would have a harder time watching everything. I remember we would shut down ALL electronics except for the pathfinder radar before every time a Bear Bomber flew over head. You would think military equipment was shielded better. Those Ruskies made our life miserable, because when you turn a major piece of equipment off, it is not uncommon to suffer equipment casualties when turning them on again. -----Original Message----- From: KipECS@....... Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 6:21 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER Licensed or Part 15, those are the two choices In a message dated 11/1/2010 11:24:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jsantee@............ writes: "But this RFI stuff is not enforced unless it interferes with important stuff" [ I once heard a spy transmission in Nashua New Hampshire on SW radio and reported it to the FCC but no one seemed to care, that transmission violated everything I learned to value about radio broadcasting, a cryptic voice general telecomm radio broadcast with no identification, After I heard this I found a Wullenwebber antenna array not far away with no Identification, lying within a low swampy area, possibly it was our own transmission from some unknown USA federal/military agency] RFI is not as simple as "off or on". The issue can be quite complicated. The consumer electronics industry generally tries to get away with the cheapest stuff possible. If you remember the Radio Shack TRS-80 computer of the 1980's aka "Trash 80". This was one of the biggest generators of RFI ever to hit the consumer market. Then there are some products that are electronically "naturally noisy" and there is not much you can do about it. The commercial two way radio market this is much more regulated and built to little higher standard. But you are dealing with consumer electronics in nearby homes that are built to the cheapest standards that will allow unwanted interference in the system and then home owners demand the commercial user clean up the mess that the home owner actually created themselves. If you have twenty feet of speaker wire from your home stereo running near the front of your home this will act like a receiving antenna and sometimes pick up a two way radio be used in a car driving near by. If you have an external FM antenna with a cheap consumer receiver you can expect that now and then you are going to get hit with "10-4 good buddy" In the 1980's there was a big push to get the consumer electronics industry to better engineer their disposable junk to prevent interference from legitimate amateur and commercial users. At the time it was estimated that it would have cost about a few cents extra per radio. The industry raised hell and nothing was done. Getting into the commercial stuff. When you have a large radio site with multiple antennas, radios, circulators and duplexers you are going to have problems. This is why setting up these systems can be an engineering nightmare. But if done correctly interference within the site will be minimal. The problem being nearby by with cheap consumer radios that have no filters. This could be hell on earth. When all is said and done it is the end users to be aware of their own problems and take prudent action to add by pass capacitors, ferrite beads, and be careful of where they run the speakers and telephone wires. If there is an illegal radio interference issue then this has been be dealt with, but when complaining you have to be sure your own operation is technically up to standard. Here is one self imposed RFI issue: I knew of an electrician who had the job to run the housing wiring and speaker wiring for an upscale home. The idiot ran the speaker wiring right next to the AC lines. The 60 Hz hum made the high end entertainment system was useless. I have spent a lot of time dealing with this. This issue gets real ugly very quickly. I like discussions about this issue, the more people know the better people can react and solve problems. Jim __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Balanced line From: "Jim Santee" jsantee@............ Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 07:27:41 -0700 Balanced lines are critically important to keep out unwanted signals i.e. "10-4 Good Buddy" stuff. I have worked in one megawatt transmitting facilities and all critical signal lines are balanced lines. Here in a nut shell is a wikipedia outline of how they work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_line What is done in many applications where you have to transition from unbalanced to balanced circuits is to have an opamp circuit or transformer do the transition. The main problem for seismic issues is the very low frequencies. This is a consideration you have to plug in to your system design. There are two basic ways of doing the balanced line concept. You can use "Twinax" coaxial cable and connections (http://www.altex.com/Belden-Plenum-TwinAx-Electronic-Instrumentation-Cable-100-Ohm-89207-BEL-P144273.aspx.) This is very expensive - I truly mean EXPENSIVE! The other way is with Belden Belfoil wire. This a twisted pair wire in a foil covering with a drain wire for the ground. For most audio work this performs nicely. Another way to do this is to get high quality studio microphone cable. Use only good cable no matter which way you go. You can buy the Belden cable as surplus to save money. None of this is direct burial. If you want burial you will need to get out your check book. PVC conduit is very cheap and you can pull a number of wires in the same run. If you follow the balanced line concept with good station engineering with solid grounding and RFI isolation a lot of problems will disappear. Power line issues: Having worked in electronic security power line issues are a big thing. Here are some ebay items similar to what I have: http://cgi.ebay.com/PULIZZI-PC2773-22-PLUG-POWER-DISTRIBUTION-UNIT-/160487265348?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255dc95444 http://cgi.ebay.com/Pulizzi-Z-Line-T982A2-Power-Distribution-Unit-New-/350401176294?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519589a2e6 If you are building your own distribution system I might suggest: http://cgi.ebay.com/CORCOM-20VR6-POWER-LINE-RFI-FILTER-20A-120-250VAC-NEW-/370316412063?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563894049f or http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?N=0&Ntk=Primary&Ntt=feed+through+capacitors For incoming signal lines I suggest http://cgi.ebay.com/100PF-500V-FEED-THROUGH-CAPACITOR-blb151-/180250623900?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item29f7c63f9c. These are feed through capacitors. I have used these in military applications many times. They work and keep the junk off the signal line. They are also used on balanced lines in some applications. Right now I am restoring older transmitters and repairing test equipment. So it is essential I keep everything "electrically quiet". Jim __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Balanced line From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 22:56:58 +0000 Yes, I think I understand a tiny bit about this. But can you tell me about common mode verses differential. as referenced to ground. It seems to me AC can leak both ways into a system then through some mysterious force infiltrate a system in a differential form causing a dc or (low freq ac) drift. It seems to me at Seismic frequencies you never operate a proper balanced transmission line system because the wavelength is too long. You need like 1/2 wavelength or multiple thereof. Twisted lines only insure that common mode signals are distributed evenly on both differential wires. It does not stop common mode or even attenuate them. You must rely upon the CMMR ratio to attack the unwanted common mode stuff. Use twisted pair along with 100% shielding in my opinion is the only way. This is all laymen talk since I'm not an engineer. Comments, geoff I can not spend time going back to college, at my age, the opportunity costs are too high. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Santee Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 2:27 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Balanced line Balanced lines are critically important to keep out unwanted signals i.e. "10-4 Good Buddy" stuff. I have worked in one megawatt transmitting facilities and all critical signal lines are balanced lines. Here in a nut shell is a wikipedia outline of how they work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_line What is done in many applications where you have to transition from unbalanced to balanced circuits is to have an opamp circuit or transformer do the transition. The main problem for seismic issues is the very low frequencies. This is a consideration you have to plug in to your system design. There are two basic ways of doing the balanced line concept. You can use "Twinax" coaxial cable and connections (http://www.altex.com/Belden-Plenum-TwinAx-Electronic-Instrumentation-Cable-100-Ohm-89207-BEL-P144273.aspx.) This is very expensive - I truly mean EXPENSIVE! The other way is with Belden Belfoil wire. This a twisted pair wire in a foil covering with a drain wire for the ground. For most audio work this performs nicely. Another way to do this is to get high quality studio microphone cable. Use only good cable no matter which way you go. You can buy the Belden cable as surplus to save money. None of this is direct burial. If you want burial you will need to get out your check book. PVC conduit is very cheap and you can pull a number of wires in the same run. If you follow the balanced line concept with good station engineering with solid grounding and RFI isolation a lot of problems will disappear. Power line issues: Having worked in electronic security power line issues are a big thing. Here are some ebay items similar to what I have: http://cgi.ebay.com/PULIZZI-PC2773-22-PLUG-POWER-DISTRIBUTION-UNIT-/160487265348?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255dc95444 http://cgi.ebay.com/Pulizzi-Z-Line-T982A2-Power-Distribution-Unit-New-/350401176294?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item519589a2e6 If you are building your own distribution system I might suggest: http://cgi.ebay.com/CORCOM-20VR6-POWER-LINE-RFI-FILTER-20A-120-250VAC-NEW-/370316412063?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item563894049f or http://www.alliedelec.com/search/searchresults.aspx?N=0&Ntk=Primary&Ntt=feed+through+capacitors For incoming signal lines I suggest http://cgi.ebay.com/100PF-500V-FEED-THROUGH-CAPACITOR-blb151-/180250623900?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item29f7c63f9c. These are feed through capacitors. I have used these in military applications many times. They work and keep the junk off the signal line. They are also used on balanced lines in some applications. Right now I am restoring older transmitters and repairing test equipment. So it is essential I keep everything "electrically quiet". Jim __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Balanced line From: "Jim Santee" jsantee@............ Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2010 11:13:08 -0700 Here are some basics to keep in mind: 1. Unbalanced lines such as RCA home entertainment cables and home owner style coaxial cables have one conductor. The return path is the shield which is supposed to be at ground potential. Ground being the common in the system, but ground having a huge amount of background noise from natural and man made sources. If the desired signal level is fairly high then modest background noise is not a problem. The desired signal over rides the ambient noise level. In cases where the ground is carrying a lot of noise or the there is a ground differential between the equipment in use, then you have noise injected into your system. The more gain you add to pick up the desired signal the more noise you bring into your system. This is one of several reasons why ignition noise and "10-4 good buddy" gets into audio systems. Ferrite beads and by pass capacitors can filter some of this out. 2. Balanced lines are a little different in that the you have two conductors independent of ground so picking up low level ground noise is reduced. The balanced line concept cancels out a lot of low level ambient noise. If the pair is twisted then even more low level noise is cancelled out. If you add shielding then even more noise is cancelled out. If you have a big check book and want double shielded cable then you can rest assured you have done your best. One point: Read the next paragraph and keep in mind having spent a ton of money on cable will not eliminate bad engineering practices on either end. 3. Recording and broadcast studios have used balanced line for generations. Between equipment audio sources are usually handled as balanced line with XLR type connectors with the signal levels of about .5 to 1 volt. This means the signal feeding the line is usually are a fairly high level so that the receiving equipment does not have to use a lot of gain to pick up the signal. By keeping the feed signal high and the receiving end gain low you minimize noise pick up. In these types of installations ambient and ground noise is very high so you need to beat the nose by using good engineering. Going one more level: High quality microphones use balanced lines. To keep the signal relatively high on very long audio lines the microphones have built in mini-amplifiers to feed a higher signal down the line to the mixer or audio board. The mixer or audio board introduces a small power source on the signal line called phantom power. The phantom power is what powers the audio amp in the microphone. 4. It is far better to feed a relatively high level low noise signal down a line to be processed by another piece of equipment with a relatively low gain setting. You are beating the ambient noise on the line by keeping the desired signal level well above the ambient noise. Having stated that, shoving an extremely high level signal down a line will cause interference to adjacent circuits and make life real bad. Balanced lines will not compensate for bad karma. Keep the line signals in the .5 volt range and you will not have a lot of bleed through. 5. In commercial communications systems and broadcast studios just about everything is shielded and balanced line inputs are used to prevent interference. In home entertainment systems cheap is what sells. 6. One closing point: Home PC's can have their own degrading issues which can reflect into other systems. Keep this in mind:. Unless you have a well shielded PC and monitor then keep it away from critical low level signal systems. Jim _____________________________________________________________________-- Yes, I think I understand a tiny bit about this. But can you tell me about common mode verses differential. as referenced to ground. It seems to me AC can leak both ways into a system then through some mysterious force infiltrate a system in a differential form causing a dc or (low freq ac) drift. It seems to me at Seismic frequencies you never operate a proper balanced transmission line system because the wavelength is too long. You need like 1/2 wavelength or multiple thereof. Twisted lines only insure that common mode signals are distributed evenly on both differential wires. It does not stop common mode or even attenuate them. You must rely upon the CMMR ratio to attack the unwanted common mode stuff. Use twisted pair along with 100% shielding in my opinion is the only way. This is all laymen talk since I'm not an engineer. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Balanced line From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 17:51:12 -0700 Jim, Good points. Nice summary. I'd like to add something which I've found to help. For seismometer work, the A/D converter inputs aren't always differential. And when they are they sometimes sacrifice an A/D channel to do it. By putting the differential stage on the output of the seismometer instead of at the A/D one can accomplish the same thing with a single-ended A/D input. This uses the same cabling as you mention -- a twisted pair carrying very little current and a separate ground to carry the currents between ground systems of the A/D and the seismometer. The difference in this approach is that one of the twisted wires is driven from the output of the seismometer while the other is connected to ground at the A/D converter. In a way, the signals in the two conductors go in opposite directions. But they very much benefit from being twisted together. Since both are driven from low-impedance sources, shielding the cable isn't normally necessary. The differential stage is an op-amp at the seismometer end, which electronically adds the ground voltage of the A/D to the seismometer output signal. For instance, if the seismometer's output is zero but the A/D ground is 1mV more positive than the seismometer ground, the differential stage increases the seismometer's output by 1mV and the A/D sees zero voltage. One can see this concept in the stage comprised of U504 and resistors R512-R515 in the schematic at: http://www.keckec.com/seismo/images/short.gif The SHORT PERIOD OUTPUT and the GND SENSE input go to the twisted pair, while the GND RETURN is the separate conductor that carries the current between the two ground systems. There is an oversight in this schematic -- capacitor C513 should be duplicated with another capacitor across R513 as well. Otherwise there is a built-in common-mode-to-normal-mode signal conversion for high-frequency AC signals appearing on the ground sense line. Karl On 11/04/2010 11:13 AM, Jim Santee wrote: > Here are some basics to keep in mind: > 1. Unbalanced lines such as RCA home entertainment cables and home owner > style coaxial cables have one conductor. The return path is the shield > which is supposed to be at ground potential. Ground being the common in > the system, but ground having a huge amount of background noise from > natural and man made sources. If the desired signal level is fairly high > then modest background noise is not a problem. The desired signal over > rides the ambient noise level. In cases where the ground is carrying a > lot of noise or the there is a ground differential between the equipment > in use, then you have noise injected into your system. The more gain you > add to pick up the desired signal the more noise you bring into your > system. This is one of several reasons why ignition noise and "10-4 good > buddy" gets into audio systems. Ferrite beads and by pass capacitors can > filter some of this out. > > 2. Balanced lines are a little different in that the you have two > conductors independent of ground so picking up low level ground noise is > reduced. The balanced line concept cancels out a lot of low level > ambient noise. If the pair is twisted then even more low level noise is > cancelled out. If you add shielding then even more noise is cancelled > out. If you have a big check book and want double shielded cable then > you can rest assured you have done your best. One point: Read the next > paragraph and keep in mind having spent a ton of money on cable will not > eliminate bad engineering practices on either end. > > 3. Recording and broadcast studios have used balanced line for > generations. Between equipment audio sources are usually handled as > balanced line with XLR type connectors with the signal levels of about > .5 to 1 volt. This means the signal feeding the line is usually are a > fairly high level so that the receiving equipment does not have to use a > lot of gain to pick up the signal. By keeping the feed signal high and > the receiving end gain low you minimize noise pick up. In these types of > installations ambient and ground noise is very high so you need to beat > the nose by using good engineering. Going one more level: High quality > microphones use balanced lines. To keep the signal relatively high on > very long audio lines the microphones have built in mini-amplifiers to > feed a higher signal down the line to the mixer or audio board. The > mixer or audio board introduces a small power source on the signal line > called phantom power. The phantom power is what powers the audio amp in > the microphone. > > 4. It is far better to feed a relatively high level low noise signal > down a line to be processed by another piece of equipment with a > relatively low gain setting. You are beating the ambient noise on the > line by keeping the desired signal level well above the ambient noise. > Having stated that, shoving an extremely high level signal down a line > will cause interference to adjacent circuits and make life real bad. > Balanced lines will not compensate for bad karma. Keep the line signals > in the .5 volt range and you will not have a lot of bleed through. > > 5. In commercial communications systems and broadcast studios just about > everything is shielded and balanced line inputs are used to prevent > interference. In home entertainment systems cheap is what sells. > > 6. One closing point: Home PC's can have their own degrading issues > which can reflect into other systems. Keep this in mind:. Unless you > have a well shielded PC and monitor then keep it away from critical low > level signal systems. > > Jim > > > _____________________________________________________________________-- > Yes, I think I understand a tiny bit about this. > But can you tell me about common mode verses differential. > as referenced to ground. > > It seems to me AC can leak both ways into a system then through some > mysterious force infiltrate a system in a differential form > causing a dc or (low freq ac) drift. > > It seems to me at Seismic frequencies you never operate > a proper balanced transmission line system because the wavelength is too > long. > You need like 1/2 wavelength or multiple thereof. > > Twisted lines only insure that common mode signals > are distributed evenly on both differential wires. > It does not stop common mode or even attenuate them. > You must rely upon the CMMR ratio to attack the > unwanted common mode stuff. > > Use twisted pair along with 100% shielding > in my opinion is the only way. > > This is all laymen talk since I'm not an engineer. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: sensor in a well From: Andrew Little little.aa@......... Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:28:58 +0100 Hi PSN list, I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube". Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you any ideas? Regards, Andy Hi PSN list,
I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960.= It is a collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. = In the Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was thi= s book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Re= xin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events.
I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the w= ater surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink= -hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well coul= d be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the art= icle did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant= "U-tube".
Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an = advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have yo= u any ideas?
Regards,
Andy
Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 12:02:06 -0600 Hi Andy, Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or = a .jpg......very interesting. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andrew Little=20 To: psnlist@................. Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM Subject: sensor in a well Hi PSN list, I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a = collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the = Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this = book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer = Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events.=20 I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, = the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of = one sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that = the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The = well in the article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted = as part of a giant "U-tube". Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could = be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if = so, have you any ideas? Regards, Andy
Hi Andy,  Is it possible to email = me a pdf or=20 copy of the article....or a .jpg......very interesting.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andrew=20 Little
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 = 11:28=20 AM
Subject: sensor in a well

Hi PSN list,
I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist = by C.L.=20 Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The = Scientific=20 American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on = seismology. It=20 was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article = by=20 Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic = events.
I=20 happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, = the water=20 surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one = sink-hole on=20 the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be = connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the = article did=20 have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant=20 "U-tube".
Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks = there=20 could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, = and if=20 so, have you any ideas?
Regards,
Andy
Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Andrew Little little.aa@......... Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 23:30:02 +0100 Hi Ted, no problem, I will scan and send them tomorrow. Some of the other articles may also be of general, or at least historic interest, but that is for another day. Good night from France, Andy. On 5 November 2010 19:02, Ted Channel wrote: > Hi Andy, Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a > .jpg......very interesting. > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andrew Little > *To:* psnlist@.............. > *Sent:* Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM > *Subject:* sensor in a well > > Hi PSN list, > I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a > collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the > Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book > that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin > describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. > I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the > water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one > sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well > could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the > article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a > giant "U-tube". > Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an > advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you > any ideas? > Regards, > Andy > > Hi Ted,
no problem, I will scan and send them tomorrow. Some of the oth= er articles may also be of general, or at least historic interest, but that= is for another day.
Good night from France,
Andy.


On 5 November 2010 19:02, Ted Channel <tchannel@............> wrote:
Hi Andy,=A0 Is it possible to email me= a pdf or=20 copy of the article....or a .jpg......very interesting.
Ted
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 1= 1:28=20 AM
Subject: sensor in a well

Hi PSN list,
I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by = C.L.=20 Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The Scienti= fic=20 American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on seismology= .. It=20 was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by= =20 Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. <= br>I=20 happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the w= ater=20 surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-ho= le on=20 the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be=20 connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the articl= e did=20 have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant=20 "U-tube".
Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone = thinks there=20 could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and = if=20 so, have you any ideas?
Regards,
Andy

Subject: RE: sensor in a well From: "Dale Hardy" dale@........... Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 10:06:33 +1100 Hi Andy, May I also have a copy please Regards Dale _____ From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Andrew Little Sent: Saturday, 6 November 2010 9:30 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: sensor in a well Hi Ted, no problem, I will scan and send them tomorrow. Some of the other articles may also be of general, or at least historic interest, but that is for another day. Good night from France, Andy. On 5 November 2010 19:02, Ted Channel wrote: Hi Andy, Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a ..jpg......very interesting. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM Subject: sensor in a well Hi PSN list, I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube". Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you any ideas? Regards, Andy _____ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1153 / Virus Database: 424/3238 - Release Date: 11/04/10

Hi = Andy,

 

May I also have a copy = please

 

Regards

=

Dale

 

From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... = On Behalf Of Andrew Little
Sent: Saturday, 6 = November 2010 9:30 AM
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: Re: sensor in a = well

 

Hi Ted,
no problem, I will scan and send them tomorrow. Some of the other = articles may also be of general, or at least historic interest, but that is for = another day.
Good night from France,
Andy.

On 5 November 2010 19:02, Ted Channel <tchannel@............> = wrote:

Hi Andy,  Is it possible to email me a pdf or = copy of the article....or a .jpg......very = interesting.

Ted

----- Original Message ----- =

Sent: Friday, = November 05, 2010 11:28 AM

Subject: sensor = in a well

 

Hi PSN list,
I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a = collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth = Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that first = got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a = float in a well to detect seismic events.
I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, = the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one = sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the = article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube".
Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be = an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have = you any ideas?
Regards,
Andy

 

No virus found in this message.
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Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Mark Robinson mark.robinson@............... Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 12:54:06 +1300 On 06/11/10 06:28, Andrew Little wrote: > Hi PSN list, > I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collection > of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Science > section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that first got me > interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a float > in a well to detect seismic events. > I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the water > surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-hole on > the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be > connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the article did > have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube". > Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an > advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you > any ideas? > Regards, > Andy I've done something similar. There was a pressure sensor below the lowest water level. It was intended to measure drawdown when water was drawn from the well. The refresh rate was too slow for local seismic events but I could see noise from large teleseismic events. It did make a very good tide meter and was also confounded by changes in atmospheric pressure. With compensation for these factors you would be on the way and get a sensor with extraordinary low frequency response. Borehole seismometers, which sit at the bottom of wells, are common practice and provide excellent isolation from local environmental noise. regards Mark __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: sensor in a well From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 17:07:42 -0700 Hi Andy, Actually monitoring water in a well may be more useful in predicting earthquakes. See http://www.fujitaresearch.com/reports/earthquakes.html If you want to record earthquakes I suggest you build a Lehman style seismometer. This is a simple way to get started and it is very rewarding. You can get much assistance with this group. Here is a start http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer Gary From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Andrew Little Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 10:29 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: sensor in a well Hi PSN list, I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube". Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you any ideas? Regards, Andy

Hi Andy,

Actually monitoring water in a well may be more useful in predicting earthquakes. See = http://www.fujitaresearch.com/reports/earthquakes.html   If you want to record earthquakes I suggest you build a Lehman style seismometer. This is a simple way to get started and it is very = rewarding. You can get much assistance with this group. Here is a start = http://sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/lehman-seismometer &n= bsp;

 

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

From:= = psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Andrew = Little
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 10:29 AM
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: sensor in a well

 

Hi PSN list,
I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a = collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth = Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a = float in a well to detect seismic events.
I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, = the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one = sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the = article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube".
Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be = an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have = you any ideas?
Regards,
Andy

Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2010 18:31:05 -0700 Andy, You might find the article at http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-096-03/ = interesting. It shows some of the work that the USGS is doing using = water wells in earthquake prediction/analysis. By the way, the area East of Oklahoma City has been very seismically = active the past few months, and you can see their online realtime = monitoring of water wells in that area. I've seen several instances of = changes during earthquake activity which are curious. Just go to = http://ok.water.usgs.gov and in the box on the right titled "Quick Link = to Real-Time Data" Enter the 15 digit id code into the box. These are = 352802098191601 or 350748098231101. Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andrew Little=20 To: psnlist@................. Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 10:28 AM Subject: sensor in a well Hi PSN list, I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a = collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the = Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this = book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer = Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events.=20 I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, = the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of = one sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that = the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The = well in the article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted = as part of a giant "U-tube". Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could = be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if = so, have you any ideas? Regards, Andy
Andy,
You might find the article at http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-09= 6-03/ interesting. =20 It shows some of the work that the USGS is doing using water wells in = earthquake=20 prediction/analysis.
By the way, the area East of Oklahoma City has = been very=20 seismically active the past few months, and you can see their online = realtime=20 monitoring of water wells in that area.  I've seen several = instances of=20 changes during earthquake activity which are curious.  Just go to = http://ok.water.usgs.gov  and in the box on the right titled "Quick Link = to=20 Real-Time Data"  Enter the 15 digit id code into the box. =  These are=20 352802098191601 or 350748098231101.
Kay Wyatt
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andrew=20 Little
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 = 10:28=20 AM
Subject: sensor in a well

Hi PSN list,
I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist = by C.L.=20 Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The = Scientific=20 American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on = seismology. It=20 was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article = by=20 Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic = events.
I=20 happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, = the water=20 surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one = sink-hole on=20 the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be = connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the = article did=20 have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant=20 "U-tube".
Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks = there=20 could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, = and if=20 so, have you any ideas?
Regards,
Andy
Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Andrew Little little.aa@......... Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2010 12:22:12 +0100 Thanks everyone for the replies, I have spent some time this morning setting up a quick Google site to post the article I mentioned. I hope to refine the site in the future. https://sites.google.com/site/aml54260/ Now, I can get on and follow up the links that you have posted. Regards, Andy On 6 November 2010 02:31, Kay Wyatt wrote: > Andy, > You might find the article at http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-096-03/ interesting. > It shows some of the work that the USGS is doing using water wells in > earthquake prediction/analysis. > By the way, the area East of Oklahoma City has been very seismically active > the past few months, and you can see their online realtime monitoring of > water wells in that area. I've seen several instances of changes during > earthquake activity which are curious. Just go to > http://ok.water.usgs.gov and in the box on the right titled "Quick Link > to Real-Time Data" Enter the 15 digit id code into the box. These are > 352802098191601 or 350748098231101. > Kay Wyatt > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Andrew Little > *To:* psnlist@.............. > *Sent:* Friday, November 05, 2010 10:28 AM > *Subject:* sensor in a well > > Hi PSN list, > I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a > collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the > Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book > that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin > describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. > I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the > water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one > sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well > could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the > article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a > giant "U-tube". > Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an > advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you > any ideas? > Regards, > Andy > > Thanks everyone for the replies, I have spent some time this morning settin= g up a quick Google site to post the article I mentioned. I hope to refine = the site in the future. https://sites.google.com/site/aml54260/
Now, I can get on and follow up the links that you have posted.
Regards,=
Andy

On 6 November 2010 02:31, Kay Wy= att <kwyatt@ge= ocouple.com> wrote:
Andy,
You might find the article at http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-09= 6-03/=A0interesting.=A0=20 It shows some of the work that the USGS is doing using water wells in earth= quake=20 prediction/analysis.
By the way, the area East of Oklahoma City has be= en very=20 seismically active the past few months, and you can see their online realti= me=20 monitoring of water wells in that area.=A0 I've seen several instances = of=20 changes during earthquake activity which are curious.=A0 Just go to http://ok.water.usgs.gov=A0 and in the box on the right titled "Quick Link = to=20 Real-Time Data" =A0Enter the 15 digit id code into the box. =A0These a= re=20 352802098191601 or 350748098231101.
Kay Wyatt
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Fri= day, November 05, 2010 10:28=20 AM
Subject: sensor in a well

Hi PSN list,
I = have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L.=20 Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The Scienti= fic=20 American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on seismology= .. It=20 was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by= =20 Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. <= br>I=20 happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the w= ater=20 surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-ho= le on=20 the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be=20 connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the articl= e did=20 have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant=20 "U-tube".
Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone = thinks there=20 could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and = if=20 so, have you any ideas?
Regards,
Andy

Subject: Guy, Arkansas From: "dickthomas01@.............. dickthomas01@insightbb.com Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2010 11:01:53 -0500 For those wondering about the Guy area; please note, I am not a geologist. This is from an email to my family andsome Earth Science teachers: We made a campground called Mean Green Toad last night. Mean Green Toad campground was due east of Bee Branch and south of Guy, AR. It was so far out in the country that they warned us about leaving the wild "critters" alone; I believe that includes deer, coons, squirrels and maybe an occasional bear and wild pig.... Guy, AR is the center of the earthquake swarm for the last year that takes one's attention away from the New Madrid system. There were three little ones while we were in the area ... but not big enough to feel... and I really didn't expect to feel any (the frequency and intensity had dropped this week ... I didn't even unhitch the 5th wheel from the truck so I was sitting on springs. My goal was to look over the terrain. A guy on the PSN said when he was stationed in the area it was as flat...at least around Harrison... well, that's far from the truth. The airport sets on a leveled off hill. I noticed numerous pipelines and even oil drilling going. It is off-season now. The campground (over 200 sites and at least 59% full) was predominately inhabited by oil industry workers; either in exploration or distribution. The mountains are tall and the escarpments (or in my mind faults) very steep some maybe 500 ft. It took me (fifth wheel and all) 3 1/2 hours to go about a 100 miles and I used a 1/2 tank of gas. I never had that much trouble going through the mountains around Knoxville, Gatlinburg or Chattanooga in eastern TN., but I might add even though we were on four lane highways the whole way, the roads in the Smokies are more modern. The activity in western Arkansas is different fromeastern Arkansas. The eastern activity (shows reduced activity (at this time) and is almost always deeper and certainly associated with the New Madrid system. This activity around Guy is much shallower. The area is obviously limestone. See: http://folkworm..memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html and by Arkansas geologists in Arkansas: http://www.geology.ar.gov/geohazards/earthquakes.htm http://www.millennium-ark.net/NEWS/10_Earth_Changes/101012.ARK.EQ.swarm.html There were several interesting articles in regional local news as well as the end of the world is coming explanation: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1223769/pg1 http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2010/10/earthquake-swarm-in-arkansas.html The impression I came away with is this. There seems to be a lot of fracturing of the limestone beds in this area. Limesstone is notoriously porous.There are a lot of lakes too; some large and many what I would call "farm ponds". If, as some sources say, there is injection of fluids into the ground and oil ...maybe even gas taken out... this might cause movement along faults allowing the lake water to get into the faults and causing lubrication. There is also the issue of relief; what caused the strong relief to begin with? I thought this are was a shallow sea for a long period with volcanic activity but the "hills" are not as eroded as I would expect.

For those wondering about the Guy area; please note, I am not a geologist. This is from an email to my family and  some Earth Science teachers:

We made a campground called Mean Green Toad last night. Mean Green Toad campground was due east of Bee Branch and south of Guy, AR. It was so far out in the country that they warned us about leaving the wild "critters" alone; I believe that includes deer, coons, squirrels and maybe an occasional bear and wild pig.... Guy, AR is the center of the earthquake swarm for the last year that takes one’s attention away from the New Madrid system. There were three little ones while we were in the area ... but not big enough to feel... and I really didn't expect to feel any (the frequency and intensity had dropped this week ... I didn't even unhitch the 5th wheel from the truck so I was sitting on springs. My goal was to look over the terrain. A guy on the PSN said when he was stationed in the area it was as flat…at least around Harrison… well, that's far from the truth. The airport sets on a leveled off hill. I noticed numerous pipelines and even oil drilling going. It is off-season now. The campground (over 200 sites and at least 59% full) was predominately inhabited by oil industry workers; either in exploration or distribution. The mountains are tall and the escarpments (or in my mind faults) very steep some maybe 500 ft. It took me (fifth wheel and all) 3 1/2 hours to go about a 100 miles and I used a 1/2 tank of gas. I never had that much trouble going through the mountains around Knoxville, Gatlinburg or Chattanooga in eastern TN., but I might add even though we were on four lane highways the whole way, the roads in the Smokies are more modern.

The activity in western Arkansas is different from  eastern Arkansas. The eastern activity (shows reduced activity (at this time) and is almost always deeper and certainly associated with the New Madrid system.

 

This activity around Guy is much shallower. The area is obviously limestone.

See: http://folkworm..memphis.edu/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html

and by Arkansas geologists in Arkansas:

http://www.geology.ar.gov/geohazards/earthquakes.htm

http://www.millennium-ark.net/NEWS/10_Earth_Changes/101012.ARK.EQ.swarm.html

There were several interesting articles in regional local news as well as the end of the world is coming explanation:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1223769/pg1


http://the-end-time.blogspot.com/2010/10/earthquake-swarm-in-arkansas.html

 

The impression I came away with is this. There seems to be a lot of fracturing of the limestone beds in this area. Limesstone is notoriously porous.  There are a lot of lakes too; some large and many what I would call “farm ponds”. If, as some sources say, there is injection of fluids into the ground and oil …maybe even gas taken out… this might cause movement along faults allowing the lake water to get into the faults and causing lubrication. There is also the issue of relief; what caused the strong relief to begin with? I thought this are was a shallow sea for a long period with volcanic activity but the “hills” are not as eroded as I would expect.

 

 

Subject: Winquake chnges? From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 10:46:32 -0500 I've been using the latest Winquake beta for a short time, and have discovered one unexpected change. I run a SG sensor and record from both the high frequency and low frequency outputs. So, I very commonly open both records together in Winquake. In the past any changes I make with both records open (add event info, crop the files, filtering, etc.) are applied to both files, and if I then save them the changes have always been preserved in both records. In the latest beta version, the changes are only preserved in one of the files. Is this a bug or an intentional change? For me at least, the original behavior is much more convenient. While I'm at it, I can't resist advocating for my most desired "future feature". Once the P and S pics have been placed, either manually or automatically by Winquake, I would love to be able to put the cursor over an arbitrary point in the record and have Winquake place the the most nearly matching phase from the table currently in use. It would certainly help me understand what I'm seeing. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 21:59:48 +0000 Possibly float a magnet on the surface held in place by whatever and then have a coil on the wall of the well ? or, vice versa. getting the stuff into place is a big wonder. I often thought a big water tower might make a good vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify the pressure changes related to ground motion. The water is a fluid and non-compressible with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should cause considerable pressure change. Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders. When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer. But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing. Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ? A barometer like device that reacts to motion instead of air pressure. geoff -----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:02 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: sensor in a well Hi Andy, Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a .jpg......very interesting. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM Subject: sensor in a well Hi PSN list, I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube". Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you any ideas? Regards, Andy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Andrew Little little.aa@......... Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 23:50:51 +0100 Thanks Geoff, There is an iron ladder down to the water's surface 10m. The house was built in 1923 and we are not keen climb down. I suppose I need to monitor the typical fluctuation in water level. Perhaps one of these laser measures as used for room dimensions would work, aimed at a suitable float. Once the seasonal variation is determined then a suitable sensor would have to operate over that range. If the movement is slight then a coil/magnet float might do the trick. If we are talking 50cm I think I need another solution. Perhaps optical? Andy On 7 November 2010 22:59, Geoffrey wrote: > Possibly float a magnet on the surface > held in place by whatever and then > have a coil on the wall of the well ? > > or, vice versa. > > getting the stuff into place is a big wonder. > > I often thought a big water tower might make a good > vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify > the pressure changes related to ground motion. > The water is a fluid and non-compressible > with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should > cause considerable pressure change. > > Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes > big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders. > > When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field > at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer. > > But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing. > > Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ? > > A barometer like device that reacts to motion > instead of air pressure. > > geoff > > > -----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:02 PM > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: Re: sensor in a well > > > > Hi Andy, Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a > .jpg......very interesting. > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little > To: psnlist@.............. > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM > Subject: sensor in a well > > Hi PSN list, > I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a > collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the > Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book > that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin > describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. > I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the > water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one > sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well > could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the > article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a > giant "U-tube". > Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an > advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you > any ideas? > Regards, > Andy > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > Thanks Geoff,
There is an iron ladder down to the water's surface 10= m. The house was built in 1923 and we are not keen climb down. I suppose I = need to monitor the typical fluctuation in water level. Perhaps one of thes= e laser measures as used for room dimensions would work, aimed at a suitabl= e float. Once the seasonal variation is determined then a suitable sensor w= ould have to operate over that range. If the movement is slight then a coil= /magnet float might do the trick. If we are talking 50cm I think I need ano= ther solution. Perhaps optical?
Andy


On 7 November 2010 22:59, Geoffr= ey <gmvoeth@hot= mail.com> wrote:
Possibly float a magnet on the surface
held in place by whatever and then
have a coil on the wall of the well ?

or, vice versa.

getting the stuff into place is a big wonder.

I often thought a big water tower might make a good
vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify
the pressure changes related to ground motion.
The water is a fluid and non-compressible
with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should
cause considerable pressure change.

Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes
big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders.

When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field
at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer.

But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing.

Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ?

A barometer like device that reacts to motion
instead of air pressure.

geoff


-----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:02 PM
To: psnlist@web= tronics.com
Subject: Re: sensor in a well



Hi Andy, =A0Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a= .jpg......very interesting.
Ted

----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little
To: psnlist@web= tronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM
Subject: sensor in a well

Hi PSN list,
I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collect= ion of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Sci= ence section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that firs= t got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes us= ing a float in a well to detect seismic events.
I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the w= ater surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink= -hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well coul= d be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the art= icle did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant= "U-tube".
Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an = advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have yo= u any ideas?
Regards,
Andy



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Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the m= essage (first line only): unsubscribe
See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Len Polucci lenpolucci@......... Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 15:30:23 -0800 (PST) There is a fantastic low cost differential pressure transducer called =0Ath= e=A0Ashcroft XLDP...I use the .25" W.C. and can view all types of minute = =0Apressure fluctuations in the microbar range as well as a multitude of am= bient =0Ainfrasonic signals. I use a reference volume (a thermos) on one si= de and a =0Acalibrated leak on the other side. See Microbarograph "the bell= jar". eBay sells =0Athis transducer used to monitor pressures in "clean ro= oms"=A0for anywhere from $39 =0Aon up. I use the Dataq 158U A/D unit with i= t.=A0The XLDP=A0is available in a =0A=A0wide=A0pressure range from .10" W.C= .. to 10" and on up! You might choose to use a =0Afixed rigid tube connected= to the XLDP to cover the traverse of water in your =0Awell. I cannot empha= size enough how "The Amateur Scientist" and C.L. Stong =0Ainfluenced my int= erest in seismology! In those articles and at 14 years old I =0Awas inspire= d to build the Wood Anderson torsional seismograph=A0facilitated by=A0a =0A= gigantic lawn roller covered with photo paper turning on a wood cradle late= rally =0Amoved by a helically wound wire guide...All driven by a hurst timi= ng motor. I've =0Aalso=A0enjoyed building=A0several electromagnetic seismom= eters since then as =0Awell.=A0Cheers. Len=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________= ______________=0AFrom: Andrew Little =0ATo: psnlist@we= btronics.com=0ASent: Sun, November 7, 2010 5:50:51 PM=0ASubject: Re: sensor= in a well=0A=0AThanks Geoff,=0AThere is an iron ladder down to the water's= surface 10m. The house was built in =0A1923 and we are not keen climb down= .. I suppose I need to monitor the typical =0Afluctuation in water level. Pe= rhaps one of these laser measures as used for room =0Adimensions would work= , aimed at a suitable float. Once the seasonal variation is =0Adetermined t= hen a suitable sensor would have to operate over that range. If the =0Amove= ment is slight then a coil/magnet float might do the trick. If we are =0Ata= lking 50cm I think I need another solution. Perhaps optical?=0AAndy=0A=0A= =0A=0AOn 7 November 2010 22:59, Geoffrey wrote:=0A=0A= Possibly float a magnet on the surface=0A>held in place by whatever and the= n=0A>have a coil on the wall of the well ?=0A>=0A>or, vice versa.=0A>=0A>ge= tting the stuff into place is a big wonder.=0A>=0A>I often thought a big wa= ter tower might make a good=0A>vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify= =0A>the pressure changes related to ground motion.=0A>The water is a fluid = and non-compressible=0A>with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulati= on should=0A>cause considerable pressure change.=0A>=0A>Sort of like a litt= le pressure on the break pedal causes=0A>big pressure in the hydraulic cyli= nders.=0A>=0A>When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field=0A>at Mesa AZ,= I often think of it as a potential seismometer.=0A>=0A>But such a thing mu= st be dedicated only to sensing.=0A>=0A>Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ?= =0A>=0A>A barometer like device that reacts to motion=0A>instead of air pre= ssure.=0A>=0A>geoff=0A>=0A>=0A>-----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel= =0A>Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:02 PM=0A>To: psnlist@............... =0A>Subject: Re: sensor in a well =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Hi Andy, =A0Is it possibl= e to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a =0A>.jpg......very inter= esting.=0A>Ted=0A>=0A>----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little=0A>T= o: psnlist@.................>Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM=0A>Su= bject: sensor in a well=0A>=0A>Hi PSN list,=0A>I have a copy of The Amateur= Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collection =0A>of projects and arti= cles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Science =0A>section are sev= eral articles on seismology. It was this book that first got me =0A>interes= ted in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a float in = =0A>a well to detect seismic events.=0A>I happen to have a well under my ho= use, it is cut into the limestone, the water =0A>surface is 10 Metres below= the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-hole on =0A>the plateau above = the village so It is possible that the well could be connected =0A>to an aq= uifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the article did have a =0A>con= nection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube".=0A>Anywa= y, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an =0A>a= dvantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you= any =0A>ideas?=0A>Regards,=0A>Andy=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>____________________= ______________________________________=0A>=0A>Public Seismic Network Mailin= g List (PSNLIST)=0A>=0A>To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM with the body of the =0A>message (first line only): unsubscribe=0A>See= http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.=0A>=0A=0A=0A= =0A
There is a fantastic low cost differential pressure tr= ansducer called the Ashcroft XLDP...I use the .25" W.C. and can view a= ll types of minute pressure fluctuations in the microbar range as well as a= multitude of ambient infrasonic signals. I use a reference volume (a therm= os) on one side and a calibrated leak on the other side. See Microbarograph= "the bell jar". eBay sells this transducer used to monitor pressures in "c= lean rooms" for anywhere from $39 on up. I use the Dataq 158U A/D unit= with it. The XLDP is available in a  wide pressure ran= ge from .10" W.C. to 10" and on up! You might choose to use a fixed rigid t= ube connected to the XLDP to cover the traverse of water in your well. I ca= nnot emphasize enough how "The Amateur Scientist" and C.L. Stong influenced my interest in seismology! In those articles and at 14 years ol= d I was inspired to build the Wood Anderson torsional seismograph faci= litated by a gigantic lawn roller covered with photo paper turning on = a wood cradle laterally moved by a helically wound wire guide...All driven = by a hurst timing motor. I've also enjoyed building several elect= romagnetic seismometers since then as well. Cheers. Len
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Andrew Little <littl= e.aa@.........>
To: p= snlist@..............
Sent:<= /B> Sun, November 7, 2010 5:50:51 PM
gmvo= eth@...........> wrote:
=0A
Possibly float a magnet on the surface
held in pla= ce by whatever and then
have a coil on the wall of the well ?

or,= vice versa.

getting the stuff into place is a big wonder.

I = often thought a big water tower might make a good
vertical sensor if you= hydraulically amplify
the pressure changes related to ground motion.The water is a fluid and non-compressible
with lots of mass and momentu= m, every tiny undulation should
cause considerable pressure change.
<= BR>Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes
big pressure= in the hydraulic cylinders.

When I look at the water tower at Falco= n Field
at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer.
<= BR>But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing.

Maybe a dense= r fluid like mercury ?

A barometer like device that reacts to motion
instead of air pressure.

geoff=


-----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel
Sent: Friday, N= ovember 05, 2010 6:02 PM
To: psn= list@..............
Subject: Re: sensor in a well =0A
=0A
=0A



Hi Andy,  Is it possible to email m= e a pdf or copy of the article....or a .jpg......very interesting.
Ted
----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little
To: psnlist@..............
Sent: Friday, Nove= mber 05, 2010 11:28 AM
Subject: sensor in a well

Hi PSN list,
= I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collect= ion of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Sci= ence section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that firs= t got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes us= ing a float in a well to detect seismic events.
I happen to have a well = under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the water surface is 10 Metre= s below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-hole on the plateau abo= ve the village so It is possible that the well could be connected to an aquifer i= n the limestone hillside. The well in the article did have a connection to = lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube".
Anyway, the poin= t of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an advantage in set= ting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you any ideas?
= Regards,
Andy



=0A
=0A
=0A
__________________________________________________________
Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list em= ail PSNLIST-REQUE= ST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsub= scribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.=

=0A
=0A=0A

=0A=0A <= /body> Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:33:39 -0500 Geoff, Using a fluid as a mass is very much along the lines of what Dave Nelson was working on for his miniature horizontal. It doesn't work so well for vertical designs, since for those you need to support the liquid column with something which doesn't change even slightly with temperature or outside pressure. So far he hadn't found anything that works well for that. This has two helicorder traces and a picture, but Dave says that the N/S channel has a problem that he's going to be looking into. http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images2.htm To see what's inside and see an analysis of its frequency response: http://bnordgren.org/seismo/FMES2.zip Dave's electronics extends the flat portion of its velocity response down to somewhat lower frequencies so that it sees teleseisms better. It is quite sensitive. Regards, Brett See: At 04:59 PM 11/7/2010, you wrote: >Possibly float a magnet on the surface >held in place by whatever and then >have a coil on the wall of the well ? > >or, vice versa. > >getting the stuff into place is a big wonder. > >I often thought a big water tower might make a good >vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify >the pressure changes related to ground motion. >The water is a fluid and non-compressible >with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should >cause considerable pressure change. > >Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes >big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders. > >When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field >at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer. > >But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing. > >Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ? > >A barometer like device that reacts to motion >instead of air pressure. > >geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Winquake chnges? From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 21:38:38 -0800 Hi Larry, As far as I know, and I wrote the program, WinQuake never updated information in all open files, only the current active file. WinQuake will update all of the seismograms in a volume set, but not individual seismogram files. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 11/7/2010 7:46 AM, Larry Conklin wrote: > I've been using the latest Winquake beta for a short time, and have > discovered one unexpected change. I run a SG sensor and record from > both the high frequency and low frequency outputs. So, I very commonly > open both records together in Winquake. In the past any changes I make > with both records open (add event info, crop the files, filtering, etc.) > are applied to both files, and if I then save them the changes have > always been preserved in both records. In the latest beta version, the > changes are only preserved in one of the files. Is this a bug or an > intentional change? For me at least, the original behavior is much more > convenient. > > While I'm at it, I can't resist advocating for my most desired "future > feature". Once the P and S pics have been placed, either manually or > automatically by Winquake, I would love to be able to put the cursor > over an arbitrary point in the record and have Winquake place the the > most nearly matching phase from the table currently in use. It would > certainly help me understand what I'm seeing. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Winquake chnges? From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:08:11 -0500 Hmmm...... Well, there may be a matter of definition here, so I'll try to give a more precise example. In previous versions of Winquake, if I go to the file window, select two compatible event files and open them, they come up together in one (document) window. There is only one text area. (By compatable, I mean that the files are for the exact same time interval, and contain the same number of samples. When the files are from the LF and HF outputs of my SG sensor, compatability is guaranteed. If this situation represents a volume set, I never realized it.) At any rate, once the pair of files is open, the phase lines span both records, operations like cropping or filtering are applied to both records, ect. If I then save the files, the file save dialog comes up showing both files at the top, and when I execute the save both of the newly saved versions of the original files contain whatever changes I made. I can open either of them individually and the changes are there. Further, I do not get any sort of new file that would represent a volume set. Also, I have run into another apparent bug in the file save function. If I use the button in the tool bar, nothing happens. The I get no file save dialog box, and the updated file is not saved. This is true even when only one file has been opened. If I select "Save" from the "File" menu the file is saved properly, PROVIDED that I haven't tried to save it with the toolbar button first. If I've used the toolbar button, the menu selection has no effect either. If I use the "Save As..." menu selection, I get the file save dialog box as expected, when only one record is open. But, when I have two event records open only the first one gets saved as expected. The second one is unchanged. So, something strange is going on. Larry On 11/8/2010 12:38 AM, Larry Cochrane wrote: > Hi Larry, > > As far as I know, and I wrote the program, WinQuake never updated > information in all open files, only the current active file. WinQuake > will update all of the seismograms in a volume set, but not individual > seismogram files. > > Regards, > Larry Cochrane > Redwood City, PSN > > On 11/7/2010 7:46 AM, Larry Conklin wrote: >> I've been using the latest Winquake beta for a short time, and have >> discovered one unexpected change. I run a SG sensor and record from >> both the high frequency and low frequency outputs. So, I very commonly >> open both records together in Winquake. In the past any changes I make >> with both records open (add event info, crop the files, filtering, etc.) >> are applied to both files, and if I then save them the changes have >> always been preserved in both records. In the latest beta version, the >> changes are only preserved in one of the files. Is this a bug or an >> intentional change? For me at least, the original behavior is much more >> convenient. >> >> While I'm at it, I can't resist advocating for my most desired "future >> feature". Once the P and S pics have been placed, either manually or >> automatically by Winquake, I would love to be able to put the cursor >> over an arbitrary point in the record and have Winquake place the the >> most nearly matching phase from the table currently in use. It would >> certainly help me understand what I'm seeing. >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body > of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Winquake chnges? From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 16:24:40 -0600 Now don't get me wrong, I feel WinQuake is top notch program but I have some MINOR issues I wish Larry would address. There is the occasional lose of the first bytes of the day which causes an error when trying to access data. Like today, I tired to access an earthquake that occur ~1:11:00 in Whitewater, MO. When I tried to create a file after this time to see the earthquake from my location I got the error message "can't find start time"....and there IS saved data. I used to think it was my hard drive, but I have totally new hardware and software and still have this issue. There is the personal issue of not being able to select multiple files using the shift key. And finally some very minor issues when crossing local networks.....files change from alphabetical order to reverse... I wouldn't change programs if someone paid me....WinQuake is great! __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Winquake chnges? From: RSparks rsparks@.......... Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2010 04:24:29 -0800 Hi Larry, I may as well offer my observations here. Pre-beta, I could use WinQuake to make a volume by modifying one file (such as by filtering) and saving the file under a new name. Next, I would select both filtered and unfiltered file, open both together, and the two traces would appear in one window with one trace over the other. If all my information was correct (it usually was), I could save the combined file as a volume. This was very convenient to compare the filtered and unfiltered trace in one window. With the beta version, when opening two files at the same time, the traces are in two windows, one over the other. To see both traces at the same time, the base screen view must be expanded and then the top screen must be slid into a new position, uncovering the second window. The abilitity to make a volume from these two files seems to have vanished. WinQuake is a great asset. Thanks for making it and the web site available. Roger > .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. > | Message 1 | > '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' > Subject: Re: Winquake chnges? > From: Larry Conklin > Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:08:11 -0500 > > Hmmm...... Well, there may be a matter of definition here, so I'll try > to give a more precise example. In previous versions of Winquake, if I > go to the file window, select two compatible event files and open them, > they come up together in one (document) window. There is only one text > area. (By compatable, I mean that the files are for the exact same time > interval, and contain the same number of samples. When the files are > from the LF and HF outputs of my SG sensor, compatability is > guaranteed. If this situation represents a volume set, I never realized > it.) > > At any rate, once the pair of files is open, the phase lines span both > records, operations like cropping or filtering are applied to both > records, ect. If I then save the files, the file save dialog comes up > showing both files at the top, and when I execute the save both of the > newly saved versions of the original files contain whatever changes I > made. I can open either of them individually and the changes are > there. Further, I do not get any sort of new file that would represent > a volume set. > > Also, I have run into another apparent bug in the file save function. > If I use the button in the tool bar, nothing happens. The I get no file > save dialog box, and the updated file is not saved. This is true even > when only one file has been opened. If I select "Save" from the "File" > menu the file is saved properly, PROVIDED that I haven't tried to save > it with the toolbar button first. If I've used the toolbar button, the > menu selection has no effect either. If I use the "Save As..." menu > selection, I get the file save dialog box as expected, when only one > record is open. But, when I have two event records open only the first > one gets saved as expected. The second one is unchanged. > > So, something strange is going on. > > Larry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Andrew Little little.aa@......... Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 15:17:54 +0100 Thanks for the ideas and interesting links. The Ashcroft XLDP looks interesting Len, so before investing in any kit, I will set up a float-pulley-weight system driving a 10 turn pot etc. to try and record the max/min levels in the well. Len mentioned building a Wood-Anderson torsion seismograph, inspired by the C.L.Strong book. If there is any interest I will scan the other articles relating to seismology. I imagine the book is long out of print, home made "X-ray machines" and "atom smashers" are probably not encouraged these days. Regards, Andy On 8 November 2010 01:33, Brett Nordgren wrote: > Geoff, > > Using a fluid as a mass is very much along the lines of what Dave Nelson > was working on for his miniature horizontal. It doesn't work so well for > vertical designs, since for those you need to support the liquid column with > something which doesn't change even slightly with temperature or outside > pressure. So far he hadn't found anything that works well for that. > > This has two helicorder traces and a picture, but Dave says that the N/S > channel has a problem that he's going to be looking into. > http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images2.htm > > To see what's inside and see an analysis of its frequency response: > http://bnordgren.org/seismo/FMES2.zip > > Dave's electronics extends the flat portion of its velocity response down > to somewhat lower frequencies so that it sees teleseisms better. > It is quite sensitive. > > Regards, > Brett > > See: > > > At 04:59 PM 11/7/2010, you wrote: > >> Possibly float a magnet on the surface >> held in place by whatever and then >> have a coil on the wall of the well ? >> >> or, vice versa. >> >> getting the stuff into place is a big wonder. >> >> I often thought a big water tower might make a good >> vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify >> the pressure changes related to ground motion. >> The water is a fluid and non-compressible >> with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should >> cause considerable pressure change. >> >> Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes >> big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders. >> >> When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field >> at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer. >> >> But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing. >> >> Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ? >> >> A barometer like device that reacts to motion >> instead of air pressure. >> >> geoff >> > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > Thanks for the ideas and interesting links.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Th= e Ashcroft XLDP looks interesting Len,=A0 so before investing in any kit, I= will set up a float-pulley-weight system driving a 10 turn pot etc. to try= and record the max/min levels in the well.
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Len mentioned building a Wood-Anderson torsion = seismograph, inspired by the C.L.Strong book. If there is any interest I wi= ll scan the other articles relating to seismology. I imagine the book is lo= ng out of print, home made "X-ray machines" and "atom smashe= rs" are probably not encouraged these days.
Regards,
Andy

On 8 November 2010 01:33= , Brett Nordgren <brett3nt@.............> wrote:
Geoff,

Using a fluid as a mass is very much along the lines of what Dave Nelson wa= s working on for his miniature horizontal. =A0It doesn't work so well f= or vertical designs, since for those you need to support the liquid column = with something which doesn't change even slightly with temperature or o= utside pressure. =A0So far he hadn't found anything that works well for= that.

This has two helicorder traces and a picture, but Dave says that the N/S ch= annel has a problem that he's going to be looking into.
h= ttp://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images2.htm

To see what's inside and see an analysis of its frequency response:
http://= bnordgren.org/seismo/FMES2.zip

Dave's electronics extends the flat portion of its velocity response do= wn to somewhat lower frequencies so that it sees teleseisms better.
It is quite sensitive.

Regards,
Brett

See:


At 04:59 PM 11/7/2010, you wrote:
Possibly float a magnet on the surface
held in place by whatever and then
have a coil on the wall of the well ?

or, vice versa.

getting the stuff into place is a big wonder.

I often thought a big water tower might make a good
vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify
the pressure changes related to ground motion.
The water is a fluid and non-compressible
with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should
cause considerable pressure change.

Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes
big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders.

When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field
at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer.

But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing.

Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ?

A barometer like device that reacts to motion
instead of air pressure.

geoff


__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the m= essage (first line only): unsubscribe
See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Subject: LHC - The real reason for earthquakes. From: "Glenn Durden" alfa@.................. Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 05:54:45 +1100 And you all thought that earthquakes were caused by geological reasons. According to Dorothy Marie Kucera, recent earthquakes are probably caused by those evil scientists at the Large Hadron Collider, as they 'blast' protons together deep underground, in a big New World Order conspiracy to topple governments. Isn't it mysterious that with so many large quakes happening on a daily basis now, none of the main news media is allowed to report it... Why isn't anyone stopping these blasts when so much seismic devastation is happening around the world? I'd love a job like hers, where I can get paid for making up stuff like that. http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7275908-cern-starts-smashing-lead-ions-on-sunday-world-earthquakes-list __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: LHC - The real reason for earthquakes. From: felipe luevanos luevanos felicaribe5@........... Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2010 19:01:13 +0000 Hey=2C =20 I still think that earthquakes are and will always be caused by geological = reasons. =20 Thank you=2C =20 Felipe L. =20 > From: alfa@.................. > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: LHC - The real reason for earthquakes. > Date: Wed=2C 10 Nov 2010 05:54:45 +1100 >=20 > And you all thought that earthquakes were caused by geological reasons. >=20 > According to Dorothy Marie Kucera=2C recent earthquakes are probably caus= ed by=20 > those evil scientists at the Large Hadron Collider=2C as they 'blast' pro= tons=20 > together deep underground=2C > in a big New World Order conspiracy to topple governments. >=20 > Isn't it mysterious that with so many large quakes happening > on a daily basis now=2C none of the main news media is allowed to report = it... > Why isn't anyone stopping these blasts when so much seismic devastation > is happening around the world? >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > I'd love a job like hers=2C where I can get paid for making up stuff like= =20 > that. >=20 > http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7275908-cern-starts-smashing-le= ad-ions-on-sunday-world-earthquakes-list >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >=20 > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. = Hey=2C
 =3B
I still think that earthquakes are and will always be caused by geological = reasons.
 =3B
Thank you=2C
 =3B
Felipe L.
 =3B
>=3B From: alfa@..................
>=3B To: psnlist@..............>=3B Subject: LHC - The real reason for earthquakes.
>=3B Date: We= d=2C 10 Nov 2010 05:54:45 +1100
>=3B
>=3B And you all thought th= at earthquakes were caused by geological reasons.
>=3B
>=3B Acco= rding to Dorothy Marie Kucera=2C recent earthquakes are probably caused by =
>=3B those evil scientists at the Large Hadron Collider=2C as they 'b= last' protons
>=3B together deep underground=2C
>=3B in a big Ne= w World Order conspiracy to topple governments.
>=3B
>=3B Isn't = it mysterious that with so many large quakes happening
>=3B on a daily= basis now=2C none of the main news media is allowed to report it...
>= =3B Why isn't anyone stopping these blasts when so much seismic devastation=
>=3B is happening around the world?
>=3B
>=3B
>=3B <= BR>>=3B
>=3B
>=3B I'd love a job like hers=2C where I can get= paid for making up stuff like
>=3B that.
>=3B
>=3B http:/= /www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7275908-cern-starts-smashing-lead-ions-= on-sunday-world-earthquakes-list
>=3B
>=3B _____________________= _____________________________________
>=3B
>=3B Public Seismic N= etwork Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>=3B
>=3B To leave this list email= PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with
>=3B the body of the message (fi= rst line only): unsubscribe
>=3B See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillis= t.html for more information.
= Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 03:25:07 +0000 Interesting, Thanks. What about a spring/mass with a conductivity probe on the bottom sticking half way into the salt water or whatever. I see no reason why you might not make such a probe very sensitive to motion like 1000 ohms per micro-meter in the Z direction ?? An AC or DC device ? Regards, geoff -----Original Message----- From: Brett Nordgren Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 12:33 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: sensor in a well Geoff, Using a fluid as a mass is very much along the lines of what Dave Nelson was working on for his miniature horizontal. It doesn't work so well for vertical designs, since for those you need to support the liquid column with something which doesn't change even slightly with temperature or outside pressure. So far he hadn't found anything that works well for that. This has two helicorder traces and a picture, but Dave says that the N/S channel has a problem that he's going to be looking into. http://bnordgren.org/seismo/gif_images2.htm To see what's inside and see an analysis of its frequency response: http://bnordgren.org/seismo/FMES2.zip Dave's electronics extends the flat portion of its velocity response down to somewhat lower frequencies so that it sees teleseisms better. It is quite sensitive. Regards, Brett See: At 04:59 PM 11/7/2010, you wrote: >Possibly float a magnet on the surface >held in place by whatever and then >have a coil on the wall of the well ? > >or, vice versa. > >getting the stuff into place is a big wonder. > >I often thought a big water tower might make a good >vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify >the pressure changes related to ground motion. >The water is a fluid and non-compressible >with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should >cause considerable pressure change. > >Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes >big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders. > >When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field >at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer. > >But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing. > >Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ? > >A barometer like device that reacts to motion >instead of air pressure. > >geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 03:34:05 +0000 Gee, I bet you tried to mix nitro-glycerin too :-) I am not smart enough to be too adventurous. My IQ was measured at exactly 100 in High School and I graduated exactly 500 out of 1000 students at my grade level of 12. I must depend on proven designs of others or something very very simple. Right now I like that vertical C spring job someone showed in PSN a bit ago. Id like to see something like that as a kit to buy. But I think he is not using a proper spring, not sure there tho. Proper springs are hard to come by and the manufacturers have a terrible set up fee to build anything unique. Thanks for the ideas. Regards, geoff -----Original Message----- From: Len Polucci Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 11:30 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: sensor in a well There is a fantastic low cost differential pressure transducer called the Ashcroft XLDP...I use the .25" W.C. and can view all types of minute pressure fluctuations in the microbar range as well as a multitude of ambient infrasonic signals. I use a reference volume (a thermos) on one side and a calibrated leak on the other side. See Microbarograph "the bell jar". eBay sells this transducer used to monitor pressures in "clean rooms" for anywhere from $39 on up. I use the Dataq 158U A/D unit with it. The XLDP is available in a wide pressure range from .10" W.C. to 10" and on up! You might choose to use a fixed rigid tube connected to the XLDP to cover the traverse of water in your well. I cannot emphasize enough how "The Amateur Scientist" and C.L. Stong influenced my interest in seismology! In those articles and at 14 years old I was inspired to build the Wood Anderson torsional seismograph facilitated by a gigantic lawn roller covered with photo paper turning on a wood cradle laterally moved by a helically wound wire guide...All driven by a hurst timing motor. I've also enjoyed building several electromagnetic seismometers since then as well. Cheers. Len From: Andrew Little To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 5:50:51 PM Subject: Re: sensor in a well Thanks Geoff, There is an iron ladder down to the water's surface 10m. The house was built in 1923 and we are not keen climb down. I suppose I need to monitor the typical fluctuation in water level. Perhaps one of these laser measures as used for room dimensions would work, aimed at a suitable float. Once the seasonal variation is determined then a suitable sensor would have to operate over that range. If the movement is slight then a coil/magnet float might do the trick. If we are talking 50cm I think I need another solution. Perhaps optical? Andy On 7 November 2010 22:59, Geoffrey wrote: Possibly float a magnet on the surface held in place by whatever and then have a coil on the wall of the well ? or, vice versa. getting the stuff into place is a big wonder. I often thought a big water tower might make a good vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify the pressure changes related to ground motion. The water is a fluid and non-compressible with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should cause considerable pressure change. Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders. When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer. But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing. Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ? A barometer like device that reacts to motion instead of air pressure. geoff -----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:02 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: sensor in a well Hi Andy, Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a .jpg......very interesting. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM Subject: sensor in a well Hi PSN list, I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube". Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you any ideas? Regards, Andy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 03:45:17 +0000 I've always thought optical might be the best way to go but everyone seems to resist that idea for one reason or another. A mirror at the pivot point with a small radius not sure, but mechanical amplification looks possible with a laser. I'm just not smart enough to figure it all out. Need a committee of scientists and engineers. Will anyone send a seismometer to Mars/Venus or ???? Id like to see what they send if they do. I think the ladder should be 316 stainless steel. Regards, geoff -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Little Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 10:50 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: sensor in a well Thanks Geoff, There is an iron ladder down to the water's surface 10m. The house was built in 1923 and we are not keen climb down. I suppose I need to monitor the typical fluctuation in water level. Perhaps one of these laser measures as used for room dimensions would work, aimed at a suitable float. Once the seasonal variation is determined then a suitable sensor would have to operate over that range. If the movement is slight then a coil/magnet float might do the trick. If we are talking 50cm I think I need another solution. Perhaps optical? Andy On 7 November 2010 22:59, Geoffrey wrote: Possibly float a magnet on the surface held in place by whatever and then have a coil on the wall of the well ? or, vice versa. getting the stuff into place is a big wonder. I often thought a big water tower might make a good vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify the pressure changes related to ground motion. The water is a fluid and non-compressible with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should cause considerable pressure change. Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders. When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer. But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing. Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ? A barometer like device that reacts to motion instead of air pressure. geoff -----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:02 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: sensor in a well Hi Andy, Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a .jpg......very interesting. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM Subject: sensor in a well Hi PSN list, I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant "U-tube". Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you any ideas? Regards, Andy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Andrew Little little.aa@......... Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:41:48 +0100 Hi Geoff and list, Thanks for the ideas, it is the very think-tank nature of these exchanges that can trigger fresh ideas. In this case it was the mention of a spring and types of spring that made me think of a vacuum, and then water barometer. A quick Google and I found that 34 foot is about the length of the column of water required. As it happens my floor level to water surface is about 10 metres which would about do it! I would then need to monitor the water level at the top of the water barometer. What do you think? at the very least I would get warning of changes in the weather! Regards, Andy On 10 November 2010 04:45, Geoffrey wrote: > I've always thought optical might be the best way to go > but everyone seems to resist that idea for one reason > or another. > > A mirror at the pivot point with a small radius > not sure, but mechanical amplification > looks possible with a laser. > > I'm just not smart enough to figure it all out. > > Need a committee of scientists and engineers. > > Will anyone send a seismometer to > Mars/Venus or ???? > > Id like to see what they send if they do. > > I think the ladder should be 316 stainless steel. > > Regards, > geoff > > > -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Little > Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 10:50 PM > > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: Re: sensor in a well > > Thanks Geoff, > There is an iron ladder down to the water's surface 10m. The house was > built in 1923 and we are not keen climb down. I suppose I need to monitor > the typical fluctuation in water level. Perhaps one of these laser measures > as used for room dimensions would work, aimed at a suitable float. Once the > seasonal variation is determined then a suitable sensor would have to > operate over that range. If the movement is slight then a coil/magnet float > might do the trick. If we are talking 50cm I think I need another solution. > Perhaps optical? > Andy > > > > On 7 November 2010 22:59, Geoffrey wrote: > Possibly float a magnet on the surface > held in place by whatever and then > have a coil on the wall of the well ? > > or, vice versa. > > getting the stuff into place is a big wonder. > > I often thought a big water tower might make a good > vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify > the pressure changes related to ground motion. > The water is a fluid and non-compressible > with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should > cause considerable pressure change. > > Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes > big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders. > > When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field > at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer. > > But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing. > > Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ? > > A barometer like device that reacts to motion > instead of air pressure. > > geoff > > > -----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:02 PM > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: Re: sensor in a well > > > > > Hi Andy, Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a > .jpg......very interesting. > Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little > To: psnlist@.............. > Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM > Subject: sensor in a well > > Hi PSN list, > I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a > collection of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the > Earth Science section are several articles on seismology. It was this book > that first got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin > describes using a float in a well to detect seismic events. > I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the > water surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one > sink-hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well > could be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the > article did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a > giant "U-tube". > Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an > advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have you > any ideas? > Regards, > Andy > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > Hi Geoff and list,
Thanks for the ideas, it is the very think-tank natur= e of these exchanges that can trigger fresh ideas. In this case it was the = mention of a spring and types of spring that made me think of a vacuum, and= then water barometer. A quick Google and I found that 34 foot is about the= length of the column of water required. As it happens my floor level to wa= ter surface is about 10 metres which would about do it!
I would then need to monitor the water level at the top of the water barome= ter. What do you think? at the very least I would get warning of changes in= the weather!
Regards,
Andy

On 10 N= ovember 2010 04:45, Geoffrey <gmvoeth@...........> wrote:
I've always t= hought optical might be the best way to go
but everyone seems to resist that idea for one reason
or another.

A mirror at the pivot point with a small radius
not sure, but mechanical amplification
looks possible with a laser.

I'm just not smart enough to figure it all out.

Need a committee of scientists and engineers.

Will anyone send a seismometer to
Mars/Venus or ????

Id like to see what they send if they do.

I think the ladder should be 316 stainless steel.

Regards,
geoff


-----Original Message----- From: Andrew Little
Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2010 10:50 PM
<= br> To: psnlist@web= tronics.com
Subject: Re: sensor in a well

Thanks Geoff,
There is an iron ladder down to the water's surface 10m. The house was = built in 1923 and we are not keen climb down. I suppose I need to monitor t= he typical fluctuation in water level. Perhaps one of these laser measures = as used for room dimensions would work, aimed at a suitable float. Once the= seasonal variation is determined then a suitable sensor would have to oper= ate over that range. If the movement is slight then a coil/magnet float mig= ht do the trick. If we are talking 50cm I think I need another solution. Pe= rhaps optical?
Andy



On 7 November 2010 22:59, Geoffrey <gmvoeth@...........> wrote:
Possibly float a magnet on the surface
held in place by whatever and then
have a coil on the wall of the well ?

or, vice versa.

getting the stuff into place is a big wonder.

I often thought a big water tower might make a good
vertical sensor if you hydraulically amplify
the pressure changes related to ground motion.
The water is a fluid and non-compressible
with lots of mass and momentum, every tiny undulation should
cause considerable pressure change.

Sort of like a little pressure on the break pedal causes
big pressure in the hydraulic cylinders.

When I look at the water tower at Falcon Field
at Mesa AZ, I often think of it as a potential seismometer.

But such a thing must be dedicated only to sensing.

Maybe a denser fluid like mercury ?

A barometer like device that reacts to motion
instead of air pressure.

geoff


-----Original Message----- From: Ted Channel
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 6:02 PM
To: psnlist@web= tronics.com
Subject: Re: sensor in a well




Hi Andy, =A0Is it possible to email me a pdf or copy of the article....or a= .jpg......very interesting.
Ted

----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Little
To: psnlist@web= tronics.com
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:28 AM
Subject: sensor in a well

Hi PSN list,
I have a copy of The Amateur Scientist by C.L. Strong 1960. It is a collect= ion of projects and articles from The Scientific American. In the Earth Sci= ence section are several articles on seismology. It was this book that firs= t got me interested in the subject. One article by Elmer Rexin describes us= ing a float in a well to detect seismic events.
I happen to have a well under my house, it is cut into the limestone, the w= ater surface is 10 Metres below the floor of the cellar. I know of one sink= -hole on the plateau above the village so It is possible that the well coul= d be connected to an aquifer in the limestone hillside. The well in the art= icle did have a connection to lake Michigan and so acted as part of a giant= "U-tube".
Anyway, the point of all this is to ask if anyone thinks there could be an = advantage in setting up some form of sensor in the well, and if so, have yo= u any ideas?
Regards,
Andy




__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the m= essage (first line only): unsubscribe
See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.





__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the m= essage (first line only): unsubscribe
See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

Subject: Re: sensor in a well From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 08:11:59 -0500 Andy, It would definitely make a barometer. One shouldn't forget that from quakes you're going to have really small motions. For example, a Tonga mag. 5.9 recorded last month created a maximum peak-to-peak vertical ground motion in California of 0.009 mm or about 0.00036", with a period of about 16 seconds. Not very much. Regards, Brett At 03:41 AM 11/10/2010, you wrote: >Hi Geoff and list, >Thanks for the ideas, it is the very think-tank nature of these >exchanges that can trigger fresh ideas. In this case it was the >mention of a spring and types of spring that made me think of a >vacuum, and then water barometer. A quick Google and I found that 34 >foot is about the length of the column of water required. As it >happens my floor level to water surface is about 10 metres which >would about do it! >I would then need to monitor the water level at the top of the water >barometer. What do you think? at the very least I would get warning >of changes in the weather! >Regards, >Andy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Well From: "Randall Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 09:49:04 -0600 Hi, With all the talk of using a well I just want to remind everyone to be careful of gas in the well. My extended family history includes a father and 2 sons overcome and suffocated by gas while trying to rescue each other during a well repair on the farm. The old ladder may be the least of your worries. Randy

 

Hi,

 

With all the talk of using a well I just want to = remind everyone to be careful of gas in the well.  My extended family = history includes a father and 2 sons overcome and suffocated by gas while trying = to rescue each other during a well repair on the farm.   The old = ladder may be the least of your worries.

 

Randy

Subject: Re: Winquake chnges? From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 21:01:43 -0800 Thanks guys. I can reproduce the problem. I should have a new release ready in a few days. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 11/9/2010 4:24 AM, RSparks wrote: > Hi Larry, > > I may as well offer my observations here. > > Pre-beta, I could use WinQuake to make a volume by modifying one file > (such as by filtering) and saving the file under a new name. Next, I > would select both filtered and unfiltered file, open both together, and > the two traces would appear in one window with one trace over the > other. If all my information was correct (it usually was), I could save > the combined file as a volume. This was very convenient to compare the > filtered and unfiltered trace in one window. > > With the beta version, when opening two files at the same time, the > traces are in two windows, one over the other. To see both traces at > the same time, the base screen view must be expanded and then the top > screen must be slid into a new position, uncovering the second window. > The abilitity to make a volume from these two files seems to have vanished. > > WinQuake is a great asset. Thanks for making it and the web site available. > > Roger > >> .------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------. >> | Message 1 | >> '------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------' >> Subject: Re: Winquake chnges? >> From: Larry Conklin >> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 13:08:11 -0500 >> >> Hmmm...... Well, there may be a matter of definition here, so I'll try >> to give a more precise example. In previous versions of Winquake, if I >> go to the file window, select two compatible event files and open them, >> they come up together in one (document) window. There is only one text >> area. (By compatable, I mean that the files are for the exact same time >> interval, and contain the same number of samples. When the files are >> from the LF and HF outputs of my SG sensor, compatability is >> guaranteed. If this situation represents a volume set, I never realized >> it.) >> >> At any rate, once the pair of files is open, the phase lines span both >> records, operations like cropping or filtering are applied to both >> records, ect. If I then save the files, the file save dialog comes up >> showing both files at the top, and when I execute the save both of the >> newly saved versions of the original files contain whatever changes I >> made. I can open either of them individually and the changes are >> there. Further, I do not get any sort of new file that would represent >> a volume set. >> >> Also, I have run into another apparent bug in the file save function. >> If I use the button in the tool bar, nothing happens. The I get no file >> save dialog box, and the updated file is not saved. This is true even >> when only one file has been opened. If I select "Save" from the "File" >> menu the file is saved properly, PROVIDED that I haven't tried to save >> it with the toolbar button first. If I've used the toolbar button, the >> menu selection has no effect either. If I use the "Save As..." menu >> selection, I get the file save dialog box as expected, when only one >> record is open. But, when I have two event records open only the first >> one gets saved as expected. The second one is unchanged. >> >> So, something strange is going on. >> >> Larry >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: lehman seismometer From: Bryan Goss bryangoss@........ Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 01:52:47 -0600 I have built a new lehman seismometer and I have a few questions its been s= everal years since my last one and I have forgotten a lot. A. I have a small outdoor building not temperature controlled thats why I b= uilt the wooden box with insulation. I am getting noise starting about 1:00am to about 9:00am=20 should I build an outer box made of foam board and heat it with a heating p= ad or something to control the temperature. link to the box and noise http://www.1goss.com/s-box.jpg =20 noise example=2C I had it most of the afternoon although normally during th= e day it looks like it should. http://www.1goss.com/noise.jpg B. The first sensor I built several years back I donated to the local eleme= ntary school when were moving. It used the razor blade knife edge and steel all thread for the boom and di= d not have the small aluminum rod I put in the new one. It worked well but I wanted to build a better one this time round so I used= a ball bearing for the pivot point=2C added=20 the aluminum rod to help with vertical stabilization and used square hollo= w tubing for the boom. Do you see anything wrong with this setup? I want criticism / suggestions i= f you have any. http://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg I had a bit of trouble getting the 25sec period and am not sure it is corr= ect and haven't had a recordable local or teleseismic event to compare with= the local=20 Helicorder Displays. C. Would a ball bearing at the top and all aluminum preform better than a w= ire? and if I use all wire what is the very best? Thanks for your time Bryan S Goss = I have built a new lehman seismometer and I have a few questions its been s= everal years since my last one and I have forgotten a lot.

A. I have= a small outdoor building not temperature controlled thats why I built the = wooden box with insulation.
I am getting noise starting about 1:00am to = about 9:00am
should I build an outer box made of foam board and heat it= with a heating pad or something to control the temperature.
link to the= box and noise
http://www.1goss.com/s-box.jpg =3B
noise example= =2C I had it most of the afternoon although normally during the day it look= s like it should.
http://www.1goss.com/noise.jpg

B. The first sen= sor I built several years back I donated to the local elementary school whe= n were moving.
It used the razor blade knife edge and steel all thread f= or the boom and did not have the small aluminum rod I put in the new one.It worked well but I wanted to build a better one this time round so I us= ed a ball bearing for the pivot point=2C added
the aluminum rod to hel= p with vertical stabilization and used square hollow tubing for the boom.Do you see anything wrong with this setup? I want criticism / suggestions if you have any.
ht= tp://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg
http:= //www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg
http://= www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg
 =3BI had a bit of trouble getting the 2= 5sec period and am not sure it is correct and haven't had a recordable loca= l or teleseismic event to compare with the local
Helicorder Displays.
C. Would a ball bearing at the top and all aluminum preform better th= an a wire? and if =3B I use all wire what is the very best?

Than= ks for your time Bryan S Goss





=







= Subject: lehman seismometer From: Bryan Goss bryangoss@........ Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 01:59:44 -0600 I have built a new lehman seismometer and I have a few questions its been s= everal years since my last one and I have forgotten a lot. A. I have a small outdoor building not temperature controlled thats why I b= uilt the wooden box with insulation. I am getting noise starting about 1:00am to about 9:00am=20 should I build an outer box made of foam board and heat it with a heating p= ad or something to control the temperature. link to the box and noise http://www.1goss.com/s-box.jpg =20 noise example=2C I had it most of the afternoon although normally during th= e day it looks like it should. http://www.1goss.com/noise.jpg B. The first sensor I built several years back I donated to the local eleme= ntary school when were moving. It used the razor blade knife edge and steel all thread for the boom and di= d not have the small aluminum rod I put in the new one. It worked well but I wanted to build a better one this time round so I used= a ball bearing for the pivot point=2C added=20 the aluminum rod to help with vertical stabilization and used square hollo= w tubing for the boom. Do you see anything wrong with this setup? I want criticism / suggestions i= f you have any. http://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg I had a bit of trouble getting the 25sec period and am not sure it is corr= ect and haven't had a recordable local or teleseismic event to compare with= the local=20 Helicorder Displays. C. Would a ball bearing at the top and all aluminum preform better than a w= ire? and if I use all wire what is the very best? Thanks for your time Bryan S Goss =

I have built a new lehman seismometer and I have a few questions its been s= everal years since my last one and I have forgotten a lot.

A. I have= a small outdoor building not temperature controlled thats why I built the = wooden box with insulation.
I am getting noise starting about 1:00am to = about 9:00am
should I build an outer box made of foam board and heat it= with a heating pad or something to control the temperature.
link to the= box and noise
http://www.1goss.com/s-box.jpg =3B
noise example= =2C I had it most of the afternoon although normally during the day it look= s like it should.
http://www.1goss.com/noise.jpg

B. The first sen= sor I built several years back I donated to the local elementary school whe= n were moving.
It used the razor blade knife edge and steel all thread f= or the boom and did not have the small aluminum rod I put in the new one.It worked well but I wanted to build a better one this time round so I us= ed a ball bearing for the pivot point=2C added
the aluminum rod to hel= p with vertical stabilization and used square hollow tubing for the boom.Do you see anything wrong with this setup? I want criticism / suggestions if you have any.=
http://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpghttp://www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg
h= ttp://www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg
 =3BI had a bit of trouble getting= the 25sec period and am not sure it is correct and haven't had a recordabl= e local or teleseismic event to compare with the local
Helicorder Displ= ays.

C. Would a ball bearing at the top and all aluminum preform bet= ter than a wire? and if =3B I use all wire what is the very best?
Thanks for your time Bryan S Goss












= Subject: Near Cost of Yemen EQ Activity From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 09:40:15 -0600 http://www.obs-vlfr.fr/~huchon/Aden/Tectono2001.pdf Above is good PDF of the Tadjoura Trough for those that may be interested. Regards, Jerry
http://www.o= bs-vlfr.fr/~huchon/Aden/Tectono2001.pdf
 
Above is good PDF of the Tadjoura Trough = for=20 those that may be interested.
 
Regards,
Jerry
Subject: Re: lehman seismometer From: ian ian@........... Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 16:14:44 +0000 point A sounds like you need to put a small heat source at the top, inside the box to stop convection currents starting when it gets cold in the evening. I use 4 car tail light bulbs (ripped from a scrapped car) and I power them from a PC psu using the 5V supply. The bulbs glow a dull orange but is enough to prevent the problem up here in snowy Scotland. Hope that helps. Cheers Ian On 14/11/2010 07:52, Bryan Goss wrote: > I have built a new lehman seismometer and I have a few questions its > been several years since my last one and I have forgotten a lot. > > A. I have a small outdoor building not temperature controlled thats > why I built the wooden box with insulation. > I am getting noise starting about 1:00am to about 9:00am > should I build an outer box made of foam board and heat it with a > heating pad or something to control the temperature. > link to the box and noise > http://www.1goss.com/s-box.jpg > noise example, I had it most of the afternoon although normally during > the day it looks like it should. > http://www.1goss.com/noise.jpg > > B. The first sensor I built several years back I donated to the local > elementary school when were moving. > It used the razor blade knife edge and steel all thread for the boom > and did not have the small aluminum rod I put in the new one. > It worked well but I wanted to build a better one this time round so I > used a ball bearing for the pivot point, added > the aluminum rod to help with vertical stabilization and used square > hollow tubing for the boom. > Do you see anything wrong with this setup? I want //criticism / > suggestions if you have any. > http://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg > http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg > http://www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg > http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg > http://www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg > I had a bit of trouble getting the 25sec period and am not sure it is > correct and haven't had a recordable local or teleseismic event to > compare with the local > Helicorder Displays. > > C. Would a ball bearing at the top and all aluminum preform better > than a wire? and if I use all wire what is the very best? > > Thanks for your time Bryan S Goss > > > > > > > > > > > > > > point A sounds like you need to put a small heat source at the top, inside the box to stop convection currents starting when it gets cold in the evening.  I use 4 car tail light bulbs (ripped from a scrapped car) and I power them from a PC psu using the 5V supply.  The bulbs glow a dull orange but is enough to prevent the problem up here in snowy Scotland.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Ian



On 14/11/2010 07:52, Bryan Goss wrote:
I have built a new lehman seismometer and I have a few questions its been several years since my last one and I have forgotten a lot.

A. I have a small outdoor building not temperature controlled thats why I built the wooden box with insulation.
I am getting noise starting about 1:00am to about 9:00am
should I build an outer box made of foam board and heat it with a heating pad or something to control the temperature.
link to the box and noise
http://www.1goss.com/s-box.jpg 
noise example, I had it most of the afternoon although normally during the day it looks like it should.
http://www.1goss.com/noise.jpg

B. The first sensor I built several years back I donated to the local elementary school when were moving.
It used the razor blade knife edge and steel all thread for the boom and did not have the small aluminum rod I put in the new one.
It worked well but I wanted to build a better one this time round so I used a ball bearing for the pivot point, added
the aluminum rod to help with vertical stabilization and used square hollow tubing for the boom.
Do you see anything wrong with this setup? I want criticism / suggestions if you have any.
http://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg
 I had a bit of trouble getting the 25sec period and am not sure it is correct and haven't had a recordable local or teleseismic event to compare with the local
Helicorder Displays.

C. Would a ball bearing at the top and all aluminum preform better than a wire? and if  I use all wire what is the very best?

Thanks for your time Bryan S Goss













Subject: RE: lehman seismometer From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 08:52:08 -0800 Hello Bryan, Can you show us 24 hours of data. Do the seismometer support posts go directly to the garage floor or are they on the insulating mat. You can make small holes in the mat for the support posts if you have not done that already. Your seismometer looks good so far. Good work. Gary From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Bryan Goss Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 11:53 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: lehman seismometer I have built a new lehman seismometer and I have a few questions its been several years since my last one and I have forgotten a lot. A. I have a small outdoor building not temperature controlled thats why I built the wooden box with insulation. I am getting noise starting about 1:00am to about 9:00am should I build an outer box made of foam board and heat it with a heating pad or something to control the temperature. link to the box and noise http://www.1goss.com/s-box.jpg noise example, I had it most of the afternoon although normally during the day it looks like it should. http://www.1goss.com/noise.jpg B. The first sensor I built several years back I donated to the local elementary school when were moving. It used the razor blade knife edge and steel all thread for the boom and did not have the small aluminum rod I put in the new one. It worked well but I wanted to build a better one this time round so I used a ball bearing for the pivot point, added the aluminum rod to help with vertical stabilization and used square hollow tubing for the boom. Do you see anything wrong with this setup? I want criticism / suggestions if you have any. http://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg I had a bit of trouble getting the 25sec period and am not sure it is correct and haven't had a recordable local or teleseismic event to compare with the local Helicorder Displays. C. Would a ball bearing at the top and all aluminum preform better than a wire? and if I use all wire what is the very best? Thanks for your time Bryan S Goss

Hello Bryan,

Can you show us 24 hours of data. Do the seismometer = support posts  go directly to the garage floor or are they on the = insulating mat. You can make small holes in the mat for the support posts if you have not = done that already. Your seismometer looks good so far. Good = work.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

From:= psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... = On Behalf Of Bryan Goss
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 11:53 PM
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: lehman seismometer

 

I have built a new lehman seismometer and I have a few questions its been = several years since my last one and I have forgotten a lot.

A. I have a small outdoor building not temperature controlled thats why = I built the wooden box with insulation.
I am getting noise starting about 1:00am to about 9:00am
should I build an outer box made of foam board and heat it with a = heating pad or something to control the temperature.
link to the box and noise
http://www.1goss.com/s-box.jpg 
noise example, I had it most of the afternoon although normally during = the day it looks like it should.
http://www.1goss.com/noise.jpg

B. The first sensor I built several years back I donated to the local elementary school when were moving.
It used the razor blade knife edge and steel all thread for the boom and = did not have the small aluminum rod I put in the new one.
It worked well but I wanted to build a better one this time round so I = used a ball bearing for the pivot point, added
the aluminum rod to help with vertical stabilization and used square = hollow tubing for the boom.
Do you see anything wrong with this setup? I want criticism / = suggestions if you have any.
http://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg
 I had a bit of trouble getting the 25sec period and am not sure it = is correct and haven't had a recordable local or teleseismic event to = compare with the local
Helicorder Displays.

C. Would a ball bearing at the top and all aluminum preform better than = a wire? and if  I use all wire what is the very best?

Thanks for your time Bryan S Goss

 

=











Subject: Re: Near Cost of Yemen EQ Activity From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 17:56:29 +0000 Hi, Thanks for the link. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-11-14 at 09:40 -0600, GPayton wrote: > http://www.obs-vlfr.fr/~huchon/Aden/Tectono2001.pdf > =20 > Above is good PDF of the Tadjoura Trough for those that may be > interested. > =20 > Regards, > Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Seismograph From: Bryan Goss bryangoss@........ Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2010 13:13:26 -0600 Thanks for all the feedback and compliments they are much appreciated. Bryan = Thanks for all the feedback and compliments they are much appreciated.
B= ryan
= Subject: Re: Well From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2010 08:23:55 +0000 Yes, A FLAME SAFETY LAMP and An EXPLOSIVE METER are paramount prior to entering any enclosed space not being ventilated. But I Bet they are both expensive. You test first with a tube put down into the void with the explosive meter then go down with the flame safety lamp lit. If the flame safety lamp pops there is an explosive atmosphere if the lamp goes out there is not enough oxygen. I used to use these in the Navy aboard ships at sea. Then there's the Red Devil blower to clear it out. Quite involved if you want to stay alive. You might take a canary with you in a cage ? -----Original Message----- From: Randall Pratt Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2010 3:49 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Well Hi, With all the talk of using a well I just want to remind everyone to be careful of gas in the well. My extended family history includes a father and 2 sons overcome and suffocated by gas while trying to rescue each other during a well repair on the farm. The old ladder may be the least of your worries. Randy __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: GPS RECEIVER From: ian ian@........... Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 08:46:49 +0000 page 3 of http://kn.theiet.org/magazine/issues/0904/news-0904.cfm?SaveToPDF talks, in the first part of the article, of the problems of gps being knocked out by interference. One suggested solution is to move house! Cheers Ian __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Guy and fracking From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:07:25 -0600 NBC's story on fracking tonight...... a local --in the Guy, Arkansas-- told me that the process is used in Arkansas. A local newspaper quoted a geologist as saying no proof existed that this was the cause of the earthquakes. Wasn't there an incident similar to this in the Denver, Colorado about 40 years ago? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:21:44 -0600 There has been at least four minor EQ's in the normally stable North Central Texas during the last year and half. Most were in or near Cleburne, TX (Johnson County). Supposedly, seismologists fro SMU have investigated and have issued the same non-committal statement. However, fracting IS in high swing in this area for the gas wells. I have seen instruments placed throughout Cleburne, TX and Schlumberger trucks around. I can't help but believe that some sort of survey is ongoing. Regards, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Dick To: psnlist@.............. ; d-family@................ ; Sarah A. Holland Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:07 PM Subject: Guy and fracking NBC's story on fracking tonight...... a local --in the Guy, Arkansas-- told me that the process is used in Arkansas. A local newspaper quoted a geologist as saying no proof existed that this was the cause of the earthquakes. Wasn't there an incident similar to this in the Denver, Colorado about 40 years ago? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
There has been at least four minor EQ's in the normally stable = North=20 Central Texas during the last year and half.  Most were in or near=20 Cleburne, TX (Johnson County).  Supposedly, seismologists fro SMU = have=20 investigated and have issued the same non-committal statement.  = However,=20 fracting IS in high swing in this area for the gas wells.
 
I have seen instruments placed throughout Cleburne, TX=20 and Schlumberger trucks around. I can't help but believe that some = sort of=20 survey is ongoing.
 
Regards,
Jerry
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Thomas Dick
Sent: Thursday, November 18, = 2010 6:07=20 PM
Subject: Guy and fracking

NBC's story on fracking tonight...... a local --in the = Guy,=20 Arkansas--
told me that the process is used in Arkansas. A local = newspaper=20 quoted a
geologist as saying no proof existed that this was the = cause of=20 the
earthquakes. Wasn't there an incident similar to this in the = Denver,=20
Colorado about 40 years=20 = ago?
__________________________________________________________
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 19:38:47 -0600 On 11/18/2010 6:21 PM, GPayton wrote: > There has been at least four minor EQ's in the normally stable North > Central Texas during the last year and half. Most were in or near > Cleburne, TX (Johnson County). Supposedly, seismologists fro SMU have > investigated and have issued the same non-committal statement. > However, fracting IS in high swing in this area for the gas wells. > I have seen instruments placed throughout Cleburne, TX > and Schlumberger trucks around. I can't help but believe that some > sort of survey is ongoing. > Regards, > Jerry > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > There are cases of water injection in southern Illinois but I never > associated any earthquakes with this activity. Is there surface > faulting in the Cleburne area? The Guy area has a lot of faulting. > Some of this faulting runs right into large lakes. In my area these > surfaces were patched with clay (at least in the dam areas) to keep > the water from finding pathways through the limestone; and I know what > oil wells look like in the field but the Guy area drilling setup is > different and surface ponds that are obviously NOT for fish and > cattle; they are lined with what looks like a blue-gray shale And a > lot of transporting pipelines -- clearly labeled. On 11/18/2010 6:21 PM, GPayton wrote:
There has been at least four minor EQ's in the normally stable North Central Texas during the last year and half.  Most were in or near Cleburne, TX (Johnson County).  Supposedly, seismologists fro SMU have investigated and have issued the same non-committal statement.  However, fracting IS in high swing in this area for the gas wells.
 
I have seen instruments placed throughout Cleburne, TX and Schlumberger trucks around. I can't help but believe that some sort of survey is ongoing.
 
Regards,
Jerry
 
There are cases of water injection in southern Illinois but I never associated any earthquakes with this activity. Is  there surface faulting in the Cleburne area? The Guy area has a lot of faulting. Some of this faulting runs right into large lakes. In my area these surfaces were patched with clay (at least in the dam areas) to keep the water from finding pathways through the limestone; and I know what oil wells look like in the field but the Guy area drilling setup is different and surface ponds that are obviously NOT for fish and cattle; they are lined with what looks like a blue-gray shale  And a lot of transporting pipelines -- clearly labeled.

Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:01:25 -0600 Sorry, I cannot address the "surface faulting" question. I am not that versed in geology. All I know is that according to what I have read, Central Texas is relatively stable. Areas in western Texas historically have been geologically active, but that is hundreds of miles away. I understand that there is some faulting in the southern coastal area. But, here in our area just south of the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex it is basically flat and geologically stable. There IS a lot of gas exploration and wells throughout the general area. Fracting is in progress. Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Dick To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 7:38 PM Subject: Re: Guy and fracking On 11/18/2010 6:21 PM, GPayton wrote: There has been at least four minor EQ's in the normally stable North Central Texas during the last year and half. Most were in or near Cleburne, TX (Johnson County). Supposedly, seismologists fro SMU have investigated and have issued the same non-committal statement. However, fracting IS in high swing in this area for the gas wells. I have seen instruments placed throughout Cleburne, TX and Schlumberger trucks around. I can't help but believe that some sort of survey is ongoing. Regards, Jerry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- There are cases of water injection in southern Illinois but I never associated any earthquakes with this activity. Is there surface faulting in the Cleburne area? The Guy area has a lot of faulting. Some of this faulting runs right into large lakes. In my area these surfaces were patched with clay (at least in the dam areas) to keep the water from finding pathways through the limestone; and I know what oil wells look like in the field but the Guy area drilling setup is different and surface ponds that are obviously NOT for fish and cattle; they are lined with what looks like a blue-gray shale And a lot of transporting pipelines -- clearly labeled.
Sorry, I cannot address the "surface faulting" question.  I am = not=20 that versed in geology.  All I know is that according to what I = have read,=20 Central Texas is relatively stable.  Areas in western Texas = historically=20 have been geologically active, but that is hundreds of miles away.  = I=20 understand that there is some faulting in the southern coastal = area.
 
But, here in our area just south of the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex = it is=20 basically flat and geologically stable.  There IS a lot of gas = exploration=20 and wells throughout the general area.  Fracting is in = progress.
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Thomas Dick
Sent: Thursday, November 18, = 2010 7:38=20 PM
Subject: Re: Guy and = fracking

On 11/18/2010 6:21 PM, GPayton wrote:=20
There has been at least four minor EQ's in the normally stable = North=20 Central Texas during the last year and half.  Most were in or = near=20 Cleburne, TX (Johnson County).  Supposedly, seismologists fro = SMU have=20 investigated and have issued the same non-committal statement.  = However, fracting IS in high swing in this area for the gas = wells.
 
I have seen instruments placed throughout Cleburne, TX=20 and Schlumberger trucks around. I can't help but believe that = some sort=20 of survey is ongoing.
 
Regards,
Jerry
 
There are cases of water injection in southern = Illinois but=20 I never associated any earthquakes with this activity. Is  = there=20 surface faulting in the Cleburne area? The Guy area has a lot of = faulting.=20 Some of this faulting runs right into large lakes. In my area these = surfaces=20 were patched with clay (at least in the dam areas) to keep the water = from=20 finding pathways through the limestone; and I know what oil wells = look like=20 in the field but the Guy area drilling setup is different and = surface ponds=20 that are obviously NOT for fish and cattle; they are lined with what = looks=20 like a blue-gray shale  And a lot of transporting pipelines -- = clearly=20 labeled.

Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:18:00 -0600 http://www.twdb.state.tx.us/publications/reports/GroundWaterReports/GWReports/Individual%20Report%20htm%20files/report94.asp http://northtexasfossils.com/geologyjohnson.htm Here are a couple of sites giving various information for Johnson County, TEXAS. Jerry
http://www.t= wdb.state.tx.us/publications/reports/GroundWaterReports/GWReports/Individ= ual%20Report%20htm%20files/report94.asp
 
http://northtexa= sfossils.com/geologyjohnson.htm
 
Here are a couple of sites giving various information for Johnson = County,=20 TEXAS.
 
Jerry
Subject: RE: Guy and fracking From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:56:33 -0800 Yes, the Government was ejecting some kind of high-risk waste deep into the earth and it came to light after the USGS looked into it. The events were in the Bolder area and not remotely close to any know faults. Regards, Steve Hammond -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 4:07 PM To: psnlist@............... d-family@................. Sarah A. Holland Subject: Guy and fracking NBC's story on fracking tonight...... a local --in the Guy, Arkansas-- told me that the process is used in Arkansas. A local newspaper quoted a geologist as saying no proof existed that this was the cause of the earthquakes. Wasn't there an incident similar to this in the Denver, Colorado about 40 years ago? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: Guy and fracking From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 18:56:33 -0800 Yes, the Government was ejecting some kind of high-risk waste deep into the earth and it came to light after the USGS looked into it. The events were in the Bolder area and not remotely close to any know faults. Regards, Steve Hammond -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 4:07 PM To: psnlist@............... d-family@................. Sarah A. Holland Subject: Guy and fracking NBC's story on fracking tonight...... a local --in the Guy, Arkansas-- told me that the process is used in Arkansas. A local newspaper quoted a geologist as saying no proof existed that this was the cause of the earthquakes. Wasn't there an incident similar to this in the Denver, Colorado about 40 years ago? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 08:30:58 -0600 My wife asked this question and I am not sure I know the answer,,,,could we be detecting a fracturing event or just an earthquake caused by the process?...in other words would the signature be different? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 08:50:39 -0600 Hi Thomas and family, In my Pea-picking brain it would not be different. I came to my conclusion after reading about the process of fracting: injecting fluids and chemicals into the ground to force gas or oil out of the rock, sand or soil. It seems to me that these fluids passing through porous rock or shale, might not produce much stress or strain. However, passing through sand or soil might rearrange its structure, and in doing so allow the rock structure above and around change its stresses and strains simply through gravity, if nothing else. I cannot visualize such action not causing some sort of changes; thus creating the environment for a small earthquake: sudden release of strain and stress. THAT is my simple unprofessional GUESS. I get that from playing in the mud and water as a child and observing the soil saturating , crumbling and collapsing. Said otherwise, my two bits worth. Regards, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Dick To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 8:30 AM Subject: Re: Guy and fracking My wife asked this question and I am not sure I know the answer,,,,could we be detecting a fracturing event or just an earthquake caused by the process?...in other words would the signature be different? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Hi Thomas and family,
 
In my Pea-picking brain it would not be different.  I came to = my=20 conclusion after reading about the process of fracting: injecting fluids = and=20 chemicals into the ground to force gas or oil out of the rock, sand or=20 soil.  It seems to me that these fluids passing through porous rock = or=20 shale, might not produce much stress or strain.  However, passing = through=20 sand or soil might rearrange its structure, and in doing so allow the = rock=20 structure above and around change its stresses and strains simply = through=20 gravity, if nothing else.
 
I cannot visualize such action not causing some sort of changes; = thus=20 creating the environment for a small earthquake: sudden release of = strain and=20 stress.
 
THAT is my simple unprofessional GUESS.  I get that from = playing in=20 the mud and water as a child and observing the soil saturating , = crumbling and=20 collapsing.  Said otherwise, my two bits worth.
 
Regards,
Jerry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Thomas Dick
Sent: Saturday, November 20, = 2010 8:30=20 AM
Subject: Re: Guy and = fracking

My wife asked this question and I am not sure I know = the=20 answer,,,,could
we be detecting a fracturing event or just an = earthquake=20 caused by the
process?...in other words would the signature be=20 = different?
__________________________________________________________<= BR>
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Please post more info about your system From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 16:09:29 +0000 Hello Don Wheeler, Could you please post details about your system or point me to your website which describes it ? I am particularly interested in knowing your Amplifier/Sensor combination. The details as relating to them. Thanks Ahead of Time, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: ARKANSAS 4.2 From: Bryan Goss bryangoss@........ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 13:58:01 -0600 First good recording thanks for all the help and suggestions. http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg Bryan Goss Magnitude4.2 Date-TimeSaturday=2C November 20=2C 2010 at 19:06:35 UTCSaturday=2C Novemb= er 20=2C 2010 at 01:06:35 PM at epicenter Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones Location35.319=B0N=2C 92.302=B0W Depth4.6 km (2.9 miles) RegionARKANSAS = First good recording thanks for all the help and suggestions.

http:/= /www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg


Bryan Goss





=
= <= /tr>
= Magnitude4.2
Date-Time
Location35.319=B0N=2C 92.302=B0W=
Depth<= font style=3D"font-size: 8pt=3B" size=3D"1">4.6 km (2.9 miles)
RegionARKANSAS

<= /body> = Subject: Re: ARKANSAS 4.2 From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2010 19:35:13 -0600 On 11/20/2010 1:58 PM, Bryan Goss wrote: > First good recording thanks for all the help and suggestions. > > http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg > > > Bryan Goss > > > > > > > Magnitude > *4.2* > Date-Time > > * *Saturday, November 20, 2010 at 19:06:35 UTC* > * Saturday, November 20, 2010 at 01:06:35 PM at epicenter > * Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones > > > Location > > 35.319°N, 92.302°W > Depth 4.6 > km (2.9 miles) > Region > ARKANSAS > > FYI ....This quake, one of ten over mag 2 today, was downsize to mag 3.9 later in the day with a quality rating of "good".. On 11/20/2010 1:58 PM, Bryan Goss wrote:
First good recording thanks for all the help and suggestions.

http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg


Bryan Goss






Magnitude 4.2
Date-Time
Location 35.319°N, 92.302°W
Depth 4.6 km (2.9 miles)
Region ARKANSAS

FYI ....This quake, one of ten over mag 2 today, was downsize to mag 3.9 later in the day with a quality rating of "good"..
Subject: RE: Guy and fracking From: "Timothy Carpenter" geodynamics@....... Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 09:42:40 -0500 More on induced earthquakes: http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/16/8/739 Regards, -Tim- Timothy Carpenter -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 9:31 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Guy and fracking My wife asked this question and I am not sure I know the answer,,,,could we be detecting a fracturing event or just an earthquake caused by the process?...in other words would the signature be different? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 08:58:34 -0600 On 11/21/2010 8:42 AM, Timothy Carpenter wrote: > More on induced earthquakes: > http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/16/8/739 > Regards, > -Tim- > Timothy Carpenter > > -----Original Message----- > From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... > On Behalf Of Thomas Dick > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 9:31 AM > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: Re: Guy and fracking > > My wife asked this question and I am not sure I know the answer,,,,could > we be detecting a fracturing event or just an earthquake caused by the > process?...in other words would the signature be different? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > Interesting...isn't that igneous base rock in that area? The trend of these microquakes is increased magnitude...in the last three days only one quake is listed below mag two while mag 2.4 seems average...trend seems upward in numbers again after a slack period about two weeks ago. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 09:26:11 -0600 About three years ago, I lived near Springdale, AR (NW AR.). The area there is mostly limestone & shale. There are many caves throughout Arkansas. In fact, there were a couple of isolated quakes near Cave Springs, AR in that area. However, I do not know what the bedding is in NE Arkansas. I do not believe it is igneous. Maybe there are geology maps online for Faulkner County, AR. Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Dick To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:58 AM Subject: Re: Guy and fracking On 11/21/2010 8:42 AM, Timothy Carpenter wrote: > More on induced earthquakes: > http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/16/8/739 > Regards, > -Tim- > Timothy Carpenter > > -----Original Message----- > From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... > On Behalf Of Thomas Dick > Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 9:31 AM > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: Re: Guy and fracking > > My wife asked this question and I am not sure I know the answer,,,,could > we be detecting a fracturing event or just an earthquake caused by the > process?...in other words would the signature be different? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > Interesting...isn't that igneous base rock in that area? The trend of these microquakes is increased magnitude...in the last three days only one quake is listed below mag two while mag 2.4 seems average...trend seems upward in numbers again after a slack period about two weeks ago. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
About three years ago, I lived near Springdale, AR (NW AR.).  = The area=20 there is mostly limestone & shale.  There are many caves = throughout=20 Arkansas.  In fact, there were a couple of isolated quakes near = Cave=20 Springs, AR in that area.
 
However, I do not know what the bedding is in NE Arkansas.  I = do not=20 believe it is igneous.  Maybe there are geology maps online for = Faulkner=20 County, AR.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Thomas Dick
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 = 8:58=20 AM
Subject: Re: Guy and = fracking

On 11/21/2010 8:42 AM, Timothy Carpenter wrote:
> = More on=20 induced earthquakes:
> http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cgi/content/abstract/16/8/739
= >=20 Regards,
> -Tim-
> Timothy Carpenter
>
> = -----Original=20 Message-----
> From: psnlist-request@webtronics= ..com=20 [mailto:psnlist-request@...............
> On Behalf Of Thomas=20 Dick
> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 9:31 AM
> To: psnlist@..............
>= =20 Subject: Re: Guy and fracking
>
> My wife asked this = question and=20 I am not sure I know the answer,,,,could
> we be detecting a = fracturing=20 event or just an earthquake caused by the
> process?...in other = words=20 would the signature be different?
>=20 = __________________________________________________________
>
>= ;=20 Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>
> To leave = this=20 list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
> the body of the message (first line only): = unsubscribe
>=20 See http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
>
>=20 = __________________________________________________________
>
>= ;=20 Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>
> To leave = this=20 list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
> the body of the message (first line only): = unsubscribe
>=20 See http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
>
Interesting...isn't that igneous base = rock in=20 that area? The trend of
these microquakes is increased = magnitude...in the=20 last three days only
one quake is listed below mag two while mag = 2.4 seems=20 average...trend
seems upward in numbers again after a slack period = about=20 two weeks=20 = ago.
__________________________________________________________
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 09:29:52 -0600 Of course, you realize that it ALL guesswork and specularion on my uneducated part!! It just seems possible, in my mind, that fracting could setup conditions for quakes. And, I beleieve all have been shallow to. Best regards, Jerry
Of course, you realize that it ALL guesswork and specularion on my=20 uneducated part!!
 
It just seems possible, in my mind, that fracting could setup = conditions=20 for quakes.  And, I beleieve all have been shallow to.
 
Best regards,
Jerry
Subject: http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 18:14:21 +0000 Hey Guys, [possibly gals] , The following below is one of the most perfect classical images of a regional EQ waveform which I have ever seen, http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg Can anyone please tell me more about the system which recorded this signal ? Possibly the station itself ? Is that station suitable for teleseismic events ? I often wondered if it may be best to use two different channels with two different circuits each adjusted only for regionals (0.25 to 5Hz) and the other only for teleseismic (0.03 to 1Hz)? However, both channels will rely upon the very same sensor or sensor array. I have been looking at gravity normalized to 1G for various periods of a pendulum and come up with the following Idea. Given: 1g and 1sec period (P) Find: new values of g for any given period. g = 1 / P^2 This means if you could float lead in some kind of dense fluid which through buoyancy removes 94% of its weight you might get a 5 second period by then suspending the submerged piece of lead by a spring extended by what might be 10 inches or so of extension from zero. I have not tried this, possibly one of you know more ? What fluid is dense enough to take up the weight of lead which is like 11.4 grams/ml you need a fluid with a density of like 11.4 * .94 or 10.72 grams / ml. I can find no such fluid, but is there a way to create such a fluid of practically any density you might need ? I figure anything which can counter 94% the mass weight will give the same result. Not just fluids. Am I wrong here ? http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg Comments Please, private or public welcomed. geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 14:09:17 -0500 Hi Geoff, I'm not sure, but I think the suggested design might suffer from lack of sensitivity. Simply having a long natural period doesn't, by itself, necessarily make for a good seismometer. For example, consider a horizontal design made from a large metal disk which has a horizontal axle in a frictionless bearing. Add a weight of a few grams on its rim and the disk will slowly rotate to have the weight move towards the bottom. It will also act as a pendulum and will oscillate with a very long period. But if you go through all the math, it turns out that it will have very little sensitivity to horizontal ground motions. Long period alone doesn't equal a good seismo. I think the proposed vertical design is also trading sensitivity for long period. Regards, Brett At 01:14 PM 11/21/2010, you wrote: > > >I have been looking at gravity normalized to 1G >for various periods of a pendulum and come up with >the following Idea. > >Given: 1g and 1sec period (P) >Find: new values of g for any given period. > >g = 1 / P^2 > >This means if you could float lead in some kind of >dense fluid which through buoyancy removes >94% of its weight you might get a 5 second period >by then suspending the submerged piece of lead >by a spring extended by what might be >10 inches or so of extension from zero. >I have not tried this, possibly one of you know more ? >What fluid is dense enough to take up the weight >of lead which is like 11.4 grams/ml >you need a fluid with a density of like >11.4 * .94 or 10.72 grams / ml. >I can find no such fluid, but is there a way >to create such a fluid of practically any >density you might need ? > >I figure anything which can counter 94% the mass weight >will give the same result. Not just fluids. > >Am I wrong here ? > >http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg > >Comments Please, private or public welcomed. > >geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Guy and fracking From: THOMAS DICK dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 13:35:59 -0600 definitely limestone ----- Original Message ----- From=3A GPayton =3Cgpayton=40uspaytons=2Ecom=3E Date=3A Sunday=2C November 21=2C 2010 9=3A26 Subject=3A Re=3A Guy and fracking To=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E About three years ago=2C I lived near Springdale=2C AR (NW = =3E AR=2E)=2E=A0 The area there = =3E is mostly limestone =26 shale=2E=A0 There are many caves = =3E throughout Arkansas=2E=A0 In = =3E fact=2C there were a couple of isolated quakes near Cave Springs=2C = =3E AR in that = =3E area=2E =3E = =3E However=2C I do not know what the bedding is in NE Arkansas=2E=A0 = =3E I do not believe = =3E it is igneous=2E=A0 Maybe there are geology maps online for = =3E Faulkner County=2C AR=2E =3E Jerry =3E = =3E ----------------------------------------------------------------- =3E --------------- =3E = =3E =A0 ----- Original Message ----- = =3E =A0 From=3A Thomas Dick =3E =A0 To=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E =A0 Sent=3A Sunday=2C November 21=2C 2010 8=3A58 AM =3E =A0 Subject=3A Re=3A Guy and fracking =3E = =3E = =3E =A0 On 11/21/2010 8=3A42 AM=2C Timothy Carpenter wrote=3A =3E =A0 =3E More on induced earthquakes=3A =3E =A0 =3E = =3E http=3A//geology=2Egeoscienceworld=2Eorg/cgi/content/abstract/16/8/7= 39=A0 =3E Regards=2C =3E =A0 =3E -Tim- =3E =A0 =3E Timothy Carpenter =3E =A0 =3E =3E =A0 =3E -----Original Message----- =3E =A0 =3E From=3A psnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom = =3E =5Bmailto=3Apsnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom=5D =3E =A0 =3E On Behalf Of Thomas Dick =3E =A0 =3E Sent=3A Saturday=2C November 20=2C 2010 9=3A31 AM =3E =A0 =3E To=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E =A0 =3E Subject=3A Re=3A Guy and fracking =3E =A0 =3E =3E =A0 =3E My wife asked this question and I am not sure I know = =3E the answer=2C=2C=2C=2Ccould =3E =A0 =3E we be detecting a fracturing event or just an = =3E earthquake caused by the =3E =A0 =3E process=3F=2E=2E=2Ein other words would the signature be dif= ferent=3F =3E =A0 =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E =A0 =3E =3E =A0 =3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E =A0 =3E =3E =A0 =3E To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM = with =3E =A0 =3E the body of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E =A0 =3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more= = =3E information=2E=A0 =3E =3E =A0 =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E =A0 =3E =3E =A0 =3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E =A0 =3E =3E =A0 =3E To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM = with =3E =A0 =3E the body of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E =A0 =3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more= = =3E information=2E=A0 =3E =3E =A0 Interesting=2E=2E=2Eisn=27t that igneous base rock in that area=3F= = =3E The trend of =3E =A0 these microquakes is increased magnitude=2E=2E=2Ein the last = =3E three days only =3E =A0 one quake is listed below mag two while mag 2=2E4 seems = =3E average=2E=2E=2Etrend=A0 seems upward in numbers again after a = =3E slack period about two weeks ago=2E =3E =A0 =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E = =3E =A0 Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E = =3E =A0 To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with= =3E =A0 the body of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E =A0 See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more = =3E information=2E =3Cdiv style=3D=22text-align=3A left=3B=22=3Edefinitely limestone=3Cbr=3E= =3C/div=3E=3Cbr=3E----- Original Message -----=3Cbr=3EFrom=3A GPayton =26= lt=3Bgpayton=40uspaytons=2Ecom=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3EDate=3A Sunday=2C November= 21=2C 2010 9=3A26=3Cbr=3ESubject=3A Re=3A Guy and fracking=3Cbr=3ETo=3A= psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B About three years ag= o=2C I lived near Springdale=2C AR (NW =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B AR=2E)=2E=26nbsp= =3B The area there =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B is mostly limestone =26amp=3B shale=2E= =26nbsp=3B There are many caves =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B throughout Arkansas=2E=26= nbsp=3B In =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B fact=2C there were a couple of isolated quak= es near Cave Springs=2C =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B AR in that =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B are= a=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B However=2C I do not know what the = bedding is in NE Arkansas=2E=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B I do not believe= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B it is igneous=2E=26nbsp=3B Maybe there are geology map= s online for =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Faulkner County=2C AR=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B J= erry=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B ----------------------------------= -------------------------------=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B ---------------=3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B ----- Original Message ----- =3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =26nbsp=3B From=3A Thomas Dick=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B To=3A ps= nlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B Sent=3A Sunday=2C No= vember 21=2C 2010 8=3A58 AM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B Subject=3A Re=3A = Guy and fracking=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nb= sp=3B On 11/21/2010 8=3A42 AM=2C Timothy Carpenter wrote=3A=3Cbr=3E=26gt= =3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B More on induced earthquakes=3A=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= nbsp=3B =26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B http=3A//geology=2Egeoscienceworld=2Eo= rg/cgi/content/abstract/16/8/739=26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B Regards=2C=3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B -Tim-=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B Timo= thy Carpenter=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbs= p=3B =26gt=3B -----Original Message-----=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26g= t=3B From=3A psnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =5Bmail= to=3Apsnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom=5D=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26= gt=3B On Behalf Of Thomas Dick=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B Sent=3A= Saturday=2C November 20=2C 2010 9=3A31 AM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26= gt=3B To=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B= Subject=3A Re=3A Guy and fracking=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B My wife asked this question and I am n= ot sure I know =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the answer=2C=2C=2C=2Ccould=3Cbr=3E=26gt= =3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B we be detecting a fracturing event or just an =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B earthquake caused by the=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B= process=3F=2E=2E=2Ein other words would the signature be different=3F=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B Public Sei= smic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUE= ST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B the body = of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B= =26gt=3B See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B information=2E=26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B= =26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt= =3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B Public Seismic Network Mailing L= ist (PSNLIST)=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbs= p=3B =26gt=3B To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECO= M with=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B the body of the message (firs= t line only)=3A unsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B See http= =3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B in= formation=2E=26nbsp=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B Interesting=2E= =2E=2Eisn=27t that igneous base rock in that area=3F =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Th= e trend of=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B these microquakes is increased mag= nitude=2E=2E=2Ein the last =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B three days only=3Cbr=3E=26gt= =3B =26nbsp=3B one quake is listed below mag two while mag 2=2E4 seems =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B average=2E=2E=2Etrend=26nbsp=3B seems upward in numbers ag= ain after a =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B slack period about two weeks ago=2E=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B To leave this list email PSNLIST-RE= QUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B the body of the= message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B See= http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= information=2E Subject: My AS-1 Type Sensor From: Richard Schneider cfi2fly@......... Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 12:32:17 -0800 Hello, I'm new here and have a few questions. I recently constructed an AS-1 type sensor. My station KCMA is on the IRIS network. http://www.iris.edu/amaseis/schools/as1imgs/KCMA.png I am using an amplifier/filter, designed by Andy Loomis, which works quite well. The natural period of the sensor is 1.7 seconds. The cutoff period of the filter is set at 1.4 seconds. My questions are.... Does anyone have a amplifier/filter design that will extend it to 10 to 15 seconds? I know the manufacturer of the AS-1 can provide the amp/filter, but it's a bit too pricey for my budget. And, I believe somewhere, on the psnlist, I recall someone who had made improvement's to the AS-1 amp/filter. Any recommendation's? Additionally, my ADC is a Dataq 194RS which is only a 10 bit unit. The original AS-1 "black box" operates at 12 bits. Is 10 bits satisfactory or do I need a higher range? Lastly, if anyone has an AS-1 "black box" for sale, I would be interested. Thank you, Richard Schneider
Hello, I'm new here and have a few=A0questions.
=A0
I=A0recently constructed an AS-1 type sensor. My station=A0KCMA is=A0o= n the IRIS network.
=A0
=A0
I am using an amplifier/filter, designed by Andy Loomis, which works q= uite well. The natural period of the sensor=A0is 1.7 seconds.=A0The cutoff = period of the filter is set at 1.4 seconds.
=A0
My questions are.... Does anyone have a amplifier/filter design that w= ill extend=A0it to=A010 to 15 seconds?=A0I know the manufacturer of the AS-= 1 can provide the amp/filter, but it's a bit too pricey for my budget. = And, I believe somewhere, on the psnlist, I recall someone who had made imp= rovement's to the=A0AS-1 amp/filter.=A0Any recommendation's?
=A0
Additionally, my ADC is a Dataq 194RS which is only a 10 bit unit. The= original AS-1 "black box" operates at 12 bits. Is 10 bits satisf= actory or do I need a higher range?
=A0
Lastly, if=A0anyone has an AS-1 "black box" for sale, I woul= d be interested.
=A0
Thank you,
=A0
Richard Schneider
Subject: RE: http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg From: Bryan Goss bryangoss@........ Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:00:13 -0600 Thanks Geoffrey=2C Ill take that as a compliment=2C The Lehman Seismograph was built by me=2C = however 99.9% of it was Larry Cochrane or Webtronics equipment that he offe= rs from his site http://psn.quake.net/ That is where I found a ton of info on how to build the basic sensor. With = a lot of questons to the psnlist group to make it better. Here are a few li= nks to pictures of the setup. also part of the reason that looked good=2C I think was because it was a go= od quality event and that makes a difference and their was little noise her= e at the time. http://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg Thanks Bryan Goss =

Thanks Geoffrey=2C

Ill take that as a compliment=2C The Lehm= an Seismograph was built by me=2C however 99.9% of it was Larry Cochrane or= Webtronics equipment that he offers from his site =3B http://psn.quake= ..net/
That is where I found a ton of info on how to build the basic sens= or. With a lot of questons to the psnlist group to make it better. Here are= a few links to pictures of the setup.
also part of the reason that look= ed good=2C I think was because it was a good quality event and that makes a= difference and their was little noise here at the time.


http://= www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg
http://www= ..1goss.com/s-overall.jpg
http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg
http://www.1= goss.com/s-housing.jpg

Thanks Bryan Goss
= Subject: Re: //www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 04:39:11 +0000 ok, I think I understand. But unlike a pendulum the disc has mass all around so that momentum exists at top as well as bottom. If you cut the disc off the top and sides you now have a thing much like a pendulum only with an Axel instead of an end point. I have often thought you could balance a mass on a point which would always be level then simply look at the angular displacement to derive your signal. You might somehow use a liquid level with an opaque liquid and shine a laser light through the bubble or prism or mirror to a sensor. Waves produce level points at four times 0, 90, 180, 360 degrees. This way you look at only surface waves and not up/down motion. Up and down motion will not produce outputs. I know there must be really interesting designs out there that none of us have seen before. I have often thought of an electron microscope being used to actually measure nanometers of motion of some mechanical device like a seismometer. Producing a very accurate and precise measurement of motion. In what I mentioned earlier the mass would be 100% submerged and the liquid would also be the damper. Your mass would be such like a cylinder or sphere. I see no reason why it should not work But this is all speculation on my part. The momentum of the mass should be the same even with the forces cancelling each other. 94% of the weight only being cancelled by fluid bath. 6% supported by the spring at whatever extension produces 5 seconds of free period. Momentum is the key here and not really the spring length. So I think 10 inches of extension should be sufficient if you somehow subtract 94% of the mass weight. Leaving only 6% to support by the spring. If you can show simply with math why this won't work. Please show me. You can not use the formula P=2Pi(l/g)^0.5 for this idea but something more like F=MA. F should be the same in the fluid as in the Air. Or so it seems to me. The tiny spring will feel the 100% mass momentum and not the 6%. But the damping in the fluid will be much greater than air. Does any of this make sense ? I am no math expert. As you can tell. Regards, geoff -----Original Message----- From: Brett Nordgren Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 7:09 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg Hi Geoff, I'm not sure, but I think the suggested design might suffer from lack of sensitivity. Simply having a long natural period doesn't, by itself, necessarily make for a good seismometer. For example, consider a horizontal design made from a large metal disk which has a horizontal axle in a frictionless bearing. Add a weight of a few grams on its rim and the disk will slowly rotate to have the weight move towards the bottom. It will also act as a pendulum and will oscillate with a very long period. But if you go through all the math, it turns out that it will have very little sensitivity to horizontal ground motions. Long period alone doesn't equal a good seismo. I think the proposed vertical design is also trading sensitivity for long period. Regards, Brett At 01:14 PM 11/21/2010, you wrote: > > >I have been looking at gravity normalized to 1G >for various periods of a pendulum and come up with >the following Idea. > >Given: 1g and 1sec period (P) >Find: new values of g for any given period. > >g = 1 / P^2 > >This means if you could float lead in some kind of >dense fluid which through buoyancy removes >94% of its weight you might get a 5 second period >by then suspending the submerged piece of lead >by a spring extended by what might be >10 inches or so of extension from zero. >I have not tried this, possibly one of you know more ? >What fluid is dense enough to take up the weight >of lead which is like 11.4 grams/ml >you need a fluid with a density of like >11.4 * .94 or 10.72 grams / ml. >I can find no such fluid, but is there a way >to create such a fluid of practically any >density you might need ? > >I figure anything which can counter 94% the mass weight >will give the same result. Not just fluids. > >Am I wrong here ? > >http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg > >Comments Please, private or public welcomed. > >geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: My AS-1 Type Sensor From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 06:31:24 +0000 Hello PSN; It is my experience you will need at least 12 bits resolution for satisfactory results else you need very high gain like for 8 bits min number of bits. 16 bits is very good at +/- 5 volts and with 24 bits at +/-5 you might need little or no gain at all. The overall gain at 1 Hz seems to be about 80Db counting everything. 80Dbv being X10,000 AC volts at 1 Hz. Using a sensor with about 3V/Inch/Second. This means no matter how many bits the output full scale at 1Hz will occur with the same input but the overall amplifier gain will be marked less as you increase the bits from 8 to 24. But the overall gain is still X10,000 from input to output 1Hz AC if the sensor is 3V/Inch/Second velocity type. I will not tell you of a design which I know works well since I'm not an Engineer. But I do know the preamp and equalizer should be the same device to avoid jamming at high frequencies by manmade ground noises. All necessary filtering to happen before the final output amplifier. A Dc blocker is desired prior to isolation manifold buffer amplifiers for like the Meters and A/D. It is cheaper and easier to buy everything already built than to experiment with building your own. Unless you can get your hands on a non-copyrighted design. Or design your own and not share it for fear of the Law. You are not allowed to distribute a design which is actively copyrighted or so I think. Most circuits published by chip manufacturers are public domain and I see no reason you can not use those patched together to build whatever as your own private kit For your own private use. Warning to the ignorant: (just ignore this if you dare) The USA is a very nasty place when it comes to law. You must be more careful here than in some other countries. Or so it seems. Must not gain money from actively patented designs. If they are patented you must get them from their patent holder one way or another. Some people think the USA is a free country. Only the ignorant and simple minded believe this way. I see more freedoms in other countries in the case of victimless crime which in my mind is no crime at all. When Lawyers charge $500 for the tiniest of services, I have to say, they are themselves, are Organized crime. They are richer than they deserve to be. They, like Psychologist, Financially Prey on helpless hurting individuals. Avoid them unless you are going into business, then its better to study the law yourself. I'm talking here not about the criminal law but the civil law. They are two isolated topics in the USA. In my mind the civil stuff should not be allowed. They are to me like vigilantes. Hypothetically, civil law has no teeth or claws. But if the people employing the civil laws are criminal themselves, you as an individual will not be able to defend yourself from them. You must keep these ideas in mind if going public with potential money making ideas. Lots of folks trying to make too quick bucks. The legal branch is underfunded. They stoop to questionable means to make up for this fact. My life / liberty has been illegally destroyed by such nasty peoples. So be careful. I am living in a jail where the neighbors are criminal and the invisible bars exist according to economics. I have no idea why they were too cowardly to simply shoot/kill me. They must have religion or some social insect Philosophy unknown to myself. They are Caucasian/Nationwide/Insidiously, Chronically, Murderously Criminal. The FBI has no interest in pursuing them. They hide under skirts of Medical And The Law. They do not pick on Government, Only helpless individuals, whom Government is not interested. It is a Federal Jurisdictional Thing with no Justice waiting. I think we citizens need a new civil war to win back our constitutional rights. Rights which have been lost before I was born. Rights are for the individual person, not the organized groups. To protect the helpless individual from the oafish/powerful/unreasonable group. I can not place a name on this nationwide nasty group of seemingly Christian Caucasians. I can only say they are deadly Chimp like things with PhDs and Follower Soldiers to get on your back. I'm not joking here, unless you have a nuclear army at your personal command, be careful, you cant fight them Only curl up and die. They are ONLY afraid of mass destruction. When in their groups, they are not human. I really think the very same people killing me were the ones who killed Kennedy. If you are powerless they take their sweet time. If you are powerful, and these tactics will not work, then they kill you outright. John,Robert, MLK were all victims of this same culture. No telling how many others. I am unable to put a name on them. Possibly, Just a guess, Christian Protestant Academy/University Graduates. They are also the Phantom Government waiting to take over in a national emergency. Consisting of Many Academic disciplines. Smart, Cold Hearted, Tenacious, Organized, Ruthless, Unlike Anything seen before in human history. Maybe even participating within PSN. They are everywhere the public is. You can't do anything meaningful outside their access. It is suicidal to fight them as an individual. GutLuk Comrade geoff -----Original Message----- From: Richard Schneider Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:32 PM To: PSNLIST@.............. Subject: My AS-1 Type Sensor Hello, I'm new here and have a few questions. I recently constructed an AS-1 type sensor. My station KCMA is on the IRIS network. http://www.iris.edu/amaseis/schools/as1imgs/KCMA.png I am using an amplifier/filter, designed by Andy Loomis, which works quite well. The natural period of the sensor is 1.7 seconds. The cutoff period of the filter is set at 1.4 seconds. My questions are.... Does anyone have a amplifier/filter design that will extend it to 10 to 15 seconds? I know the manufacturer of the AS-1 can provide the amp/filter, but it's a bit too pricey for my budget. And, I believe somewhere, on the psnlist, I recall someone who had made improvement's to the AS-1 amp/filter. Any recommendation's? Additionally, my ADC is a Dataq 194RS which is only a 10 bit unit. The original AS-1 "black box" operates at 12 bits. Is 10 bits satisfactory or do I need a higher range? Lastly, if anyone has an AS-1 "black box" for sale, I would be interested. Thank you, Richard Schneider __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: //www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 04:51:27 +0000 Bravo Bryan Goss, Yes, Compliment to everyone involved. The picture you show is what I try to get but rarely see. Right now a storm is coming through and the weather related micro seismic waves have been setting off alarms. I would have to filter heavily at 2 seconds to get equivalent to your flatness in the noise. I wonder if you might use a flexible wire fulcrum somehow where the bearing is located, Then corrosion or dust will be no problem. I bet the force at the bearing is considerable and the metals should be identical in alloy. But not certain there. Is the bearing welded or glued to its holder (not meaning the surface) ? Regards, geoff -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Goss Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 10:00 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: RE: http://www.1goss.com/Arkansas42.jpg Thanks Geoffrey, Ill take that as a compliment, The Lehman Seismograph was built by me, however 99.9% of it was Larry Cochrane or Webtronics equipment that he offers from his site http://psn.quake.net/ That is where I found a ton of info on how to build the basic sensor. With a lot of questons to the psnlist group to make it better. Here are a few links to pictures of the setup. also part of the reason that looked good, I think was because it was a good quality event and that makes a difference and their was little noise here at the time. http://www.1goss.com/s-bearing.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-top.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-overall.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-boom.jpg http://www.1goss.com/s-housing.jpg Thanks Bryan Goss __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: My AS-1 Type Sensor From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 13:11:55 -0500 Hi Richard, If you want to stay with Dataq data acquisition, you might want to look at the seismic software I have developed, which is available for free download from my web site http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/sitemap. I have a recorder, a heliplotter, and a scrolling heliplotter for web display, plus utility software for filtering and conversion of event files to WinQuake format. Filtering operations include an inverse filter, which converts raw data from a short period sensor into a much broader band response without need for the AS-1 black box or the Roberts circuit. Amaseis also implements my inverse filter, but only on the SAC format event files it makes. I would recommend that you go for 12-bit conversion, which is available from the Dataq DI-158U. Bob McClure Message----- From: Richard Schneider Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:32 PM To: PSNLIST@.............. Subject: My AS-1 Type Sensor Hello, I'm new here and have a few questions. I recently constructed an AS-1 type sensor. My station KCMA is on the IRIS network. http://www.iris.edu/amaseis/schools/as1imgs/KCMA.png I am using an amplifier/filter, designed by Andy Loomis, which works quite well. The natural period of the sensor is 1.7 seconds. The cutoff period of the filter is set at 1.4 seconds. My questions are.... Does anyone have a amplifier/filter design that will extend it to 10 to 15 seconds? I know the manufacturer of the AS-1 can provide the amp/filter, but it's a bit too pricey for my budget. And, I believe somewhere, on the psnlist, I recall someone who had made improvement's to the AS-1 amp/filter. Any recommendation's? Additionally, my ADC is a Dataq 194RS which is only a 10 bit unit. The original AS-1 "black box" operates at 12 bits. Is 10 bits satisfactory or do I need a higher range? Lastly, if anyone has an AS-1 "black box" for sale, I would be interested. Thank you, Richard Schneider Hi Richard,

=A0 If you want to stay with Dataq data acquisition, you= might want to look at the seismic software I have developed, which is avai= lable for free download from my web site

http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure= 90/sitemap.

=A0 I have a recorder, a heliplotter, and a scrolling heliplotter for w= eb display, plus utility software for filtering and conversion of event fil= es to WinQuake format.

=A0 Filtering operations include an inverse f= ilter, which converts raw data from a short period sensor into a much broad= er band response without need for the AS-1 black box or the Roberts circuit= .. Amaseis also implements my inverse filter, but only on the SAC format eve= nt files it makes.

=A0 I would recommend that you go for 12-bit conversion, which is avail= able from the Dataq DI-158U.

Bob McClure

Message----- From: R= ichard Schneider
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 8:32 PM
To: PSNLIST@SEI= SMICNET.COM
Subject: My AS-1 Type Sensor

Hello, I'm new here and have a few questions.

I recently constructed an AS-1 type sensor. My station KCMA is on the IRIS = network.

http://www.iris.edu/amaseis/schools/as1imgs/KCMA.png

I am using an amplifier/filter, designed by Andy Loomis, which works=20 quite well. The natural period of the sensor is 1.7 seconds. The cutoff=20 period of the filter is set at 1.4 seconds.

My questions are.... Does anyone have a amplifier/filter design that=20 will extend it to 10 to 15 seconds? I know the manufacturer of the AS-1=20 can provide the amp/filter, but it's a bit too pricey for my budget.=20 And, I believe somewhere, on the psnlist, I recall someone who had made=20 improvement's to the AS-1 amp/filter. Any recommendation's?

Additionally, my ADC is a Dataq 194RS which is only a 10 bit unit. The=20 original AS-1 "black box" operates at 12 bits. Is 10 bits satisfa= ctory=20 or do I need a higher range?

Lastly, if anyone has an AS-1 "black box" for sale, I would be in= terested.

Thank you,

Richard Schneider


Subject: Re: My AS-1 Type Sensor From: Christopher Chapman chrisatupw@....... Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:52:11 -0500 I recently constructed an AS-1 type sensor. My station KCMA is in the=20 IRIS network. I am using an amplifier/filter, designed by Andy Loomis, which works=20 quite well. The natural period of the sensor is 1.7 seconds. The cutoff=20 period of the filter is set at 1.4 seconds. My questions are.... Does anyone have a amplifier/filter design that=20 will extend it to 10 to 15 seconds? I kn