PSN-L Email List Message

Subject: Re: Homade Geophone
From: ChrisAtUpw@.......
Date: Sat, 6 Aug 2005 18:46:03 EDT


 
In a message dated 06/08/2005, JohnJan@........ writes:

http://jclahr.com/science/psn/wooden/


Hi John,
 
    You may need to bend a bit of wire straight at both  ends of the spring 
and clamp it. One of the problems with spring suspensions is  noise from the 
loop ends. You could bore a small hole through the 'mass' bolt  just under the 
head and clamp the wire between two washers? Put a similar clamp  bolt on the 
frame? Noise can also be minimised by bending the wire to a V  instead of a 
loop end and using a slightly sharper V of hard metal  with a slightly rounded 
edge, like they do in weighing scales.
    You may get better results from the  suspension if, instead of points, 
you use a couple of stainless steel ball  bearings on the base column and either 
a square polished lathe tool or a  glass microscope slide on the end of the 
arm. 1/4" bearings  should do fine. If you just want to 'try it out' you should 
be able to buy  several sizes of ordinary ball bearings from a cycle shop. 
You do need to  place a drop of thin oil at the contact point to inhibit 
corrosion.
    I would be tempted to use a U magnet for the mass,  like in the AS-1 and 
either a relay or a miniature transformer coil.  Larry sells relay coils. To 
get good signals, you really need a high gradient  magnetic field and lots of 
turns, preferably on a square section coil.
    Mouser sell a range of small transformers. You  remove the I strips from 
both ends of the yoke, free up a central E strip  on both sides with a knife 
blade and then push it out using blocks and  a vice. You can then peel off and 
extract the remaining E strips to leave  you with a nice square sensor coil on 
a plastic former. I use them for distance  sensors with all the E strips 
replaced on one side, in the same way that  Sean Morrissey did.  
    If you use a single vertical magnet, you will  likely pick up a lot of 
magnetic noise from the power wiring in your house, from  fridges, central 
heating, electric cookers, from bikes, cars, lorries, trains  and from the earth's 
field. You will still pick up noise with a U magnet, but it  will be less. 
Both N & S poles face downward and you are not sensitive to  side to side forces. 
A totally soft iron shielded Neo quad array would probably  be too heavy. The 
best way is still to put the coil on the end of the arm with a  brass weight 
and sit the magnet array out of harm's way on the floor!
    I notice that you mentioned damping magnets. Could  you make an air 
damper with two different sizes of drinks cans, or one drinks  can and an open 
topped tin set on the ground? The airflow  resistance would come from the small 
circular but long air gap in between the  cans? Maybe this is not too practical. 
It could be quite sensitive to air  pressure variations. Just an off the cuff 
idea.
    You can get quite significant damping by  drilling a round copper bar and 
sliding one pole of a cylindrical Neo  magnet just inside it. 
    I have tried every combination that I can think of  for 'flat' magnetic 
damping systems. BY FAR THE MOST EFFECTIVE SYSTEM is to use  rectangular Neo 
magnets mounted on two mild steel plates held apart by mild  steel bolts. I use 
3.5" x 2" x 1/4" bright mild steel plates and 1/4" mild  steel bolts. On one 
inner face you place a N and a S Neo bar magnet  pair, with the long sides 
together. Facing this on the other face is a S  and a N Neo bar magnet pair. The 
poles are on the flat faces of the  magnets. You suspend an Al or Cu damping 
blade in the central gap so that  it moves at right angles to the long magnet 
join and overlaps the  magnets by maybe 3/8". This avoids edge force effects 
between the  blade and the magnets. The fields from the rear of the magnet pairs 
are closely  linked by the soft iron, so that most of the mmf drives the 
fields in the  central gap. This system gives a very sharp rate of change of field 
at the  central join, allowing strong damping on a cental moving Cu /  Al 
plate.
    Have fun!
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman





In a message dated 06/08/2005, JohnJan@........ writes:
<= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>http://jclahr.com/science/psn/wooden/
Hi John,
 
    You may need to bend a bit of wire straight at=20= both=20 ends of the spring and clamp it. One of the problems with spring suspensions= is=20 noise from the loop ends. You could bore a small hole through the 'mass' bol= t=20 just under the head and clamp the wire between two washers? Put a similar cl= amp=20 bolt on the frame? Noise can also be minimised by bending the wire to a= V=20 instead of a loop end and using a slightly sharper V of hard metal= =20 with a slightly rounded edge, like they do in weighing scales.
    You may get better results from the=20 suspension if, instead of points, you use a couple of stainless steel b= all=20 bearings on the base column and either a square polished lathe tool or a=20 glass microscope slide on the end of the arm. 1/4" beari= ngs=20 should do fine. If you just want to 'try it out' you should be able to buy=20 several sizes of ordinary ball bearings from a cycle shop. You do need=20= to=20 place a drop of thin oil at the contact point to inhibit corrosion.
    I would be tempted to use a U magnet for the ma= ss,=20 like in the AS-1 and either a relay or a miniature transformer coi= l.=20 Larry sells relay coils. To get good signals, you really need a high gradien= t=20 magnetic field and lots of turns, preferably on a square section coil.
    Mouser sell a range of small transformers. You=20 remove the I strips from both ends of the yoke, free up a central E str= ip=20 on both sides with a knife blade and then push it out using blocks= and=20 a vice. You can then peel off and extract the remaining E strips to lea= ve=20 you with a nice square sensor coil on a plastic former. I use them for dista= nce=20 sensors with all the E strips replaced on one side, in the same way tha= t=20 Sean Morrissey did.  
    If you use a single vertical magnet, you w= ill=20 likely pick up a lot of magnetic noise from the power wiring in your house,=20= from=20 fridges, central heating, electric cookers, from bikes, cars, lorries, train= s=20 and from the earth's field. You will still pick up noise with a U magnet, bu= t it=20 will be less. Both N & S poles face downward and you are not sensitive t= o=20 side to side forces. A totally soft iron shielded Neo quad array would proba= bly=20 be too heavy. The best way is still to put the coil on the end of the arm wi= th a=20 brass weight and sit the magnet array out of harm's way on the floor!
    I notice that you mentioned damping magnets. Co= uld=20 you make an air damper with two different sizes of drinks cans, or one drink= s=20 can and an open topped tin set on the ground? The airflow=20 resistance would come from the small circular but long air gap in between th= e=20 cans? Maybe this is not too practical. It could be quite sensitive to air=20 pressure variations. Just an off the cuff idea.
    You can get quite significant damping by=20 drilling a round copper bar and sliding one pole of a cylindrical Neo=20 magnet just inside it.
    I have tried every combination that I can think= of=20 for 'flat' magnetic damping systems. BY FAR THE MOST EFFECTIVE SYSTEM is to=20= use=20 rectangular Neo magnets mounted on two mild steel plates held apart by=20= mild=20 steel bolts. I use 3.5" x 2" x 1/4" bright mild steel plates and 1/4" m= ild=20 steel bolts. On one inner face you place a N and a S Neo bar magne= t=20 pair, with the long sides together. Facing this on the other face is a S=20 and a N Neo bar magnet pair. The poles are on the flat faces of the=20 magnets. You suspend an Al or Cu damping blade in the central gap so th= at=20 it moves at right angles to the long magnet join and overlaps the=20 magnets by maybe 3/8". This avoids edge force effects between the=20 blade and the magnets. The fields from the rear of the magnet pairs are clos= ely=20 linked by the soft iron, so that most of the mmf drives the fields in t= he=20 central gap. This system gives a very sharp rate of change of field at=20= the=20 central join, allowing strong damping on a cental moving Cu /=20 Al plate.
    Have fun!
 
    Regards,
 
    Chris Chapman

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