PSN-L Email List Message

Subject: Re: Instument Quality
From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@.............
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:01:42 -0700 (PDT)


Larry
I like the idea. I have been using a spiral binder and pencil for 17 yrs. :=
). I have used Excel for other things but -- sometimes it's hard to see the=
 obvious. I would like to include the event info and distance to my station=
 and also the signal size I record (P-P). That way I can plot count vs magn=
itude vs distance with the computer rather than by hand. Is there a conveni=
ent way to import the=A0 winquake data? I can always do it by hand.
Regards
Barry
=A0

--- On Fri, 10/23/09, Larry Conklin  wrote:

From: Larry Conklin 
Subject: Re: Instument Quality
To: psn-l@..............
Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 6:52 AM

Hi Ted,

I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to record the events I've seen with =
my SG system.=A0 The sheet includes a magnitude vs distance scatter plot, w=
ith each point color coded (A - D) to represent my (very) subjective assess=
ment of the quality of the detection.=A0 I have a database of over 800 even=
ts.

My system is far from an optimal construction and my location is pretty noi=
sy, but I think overall my results are reasonably typical of a fair to midd=
len amateur system.

If you or anyone else would like a copy of the sheet and data to examine fo=
r comparison to your own results, I'd be happy to send it to you. I've incl=
uded a few other features, and I use it to manage all of my event files.

Larry

tchannel wrote:
> I have a follow up question, only somewhat related.=A0=A0=A0When the sens=
or is completed, one of the first questions a novice might ask is "What can=
 I expect to see"?=A0 =A0=A0=A0I know this would depend, not only the senso=
r, but many other things, like the location, and the other components of th=
e station.
> We all try to build the best one we can, using the ideas and materials we=
 have.=A0=A0=A0This site is the best tool I have in my workshop.
>=A0 The most common statement I have seen is,=A0 "My sensor can see >7.0M =
anywhere in the world"=A0=A0=A0I have never complete a sensor which could n=
ot do this.
> I view USGS sites, and find equipment costing thousands of dollars, pick =
up more and small events, then mine, but not not by much.
> I also know, several of my ideas are not as sensitive as they could be, a=
nd some of the ideas simply don't work.=A0=A0=A0I learn a lot from both fai=
lures and successes.
>=A0 Could someone state, as best as you can "What should I expect to see"?
> Something like:
>=A0 >6.8m anywhere in the world.
>=A0 >6.m within 90 degrees
>=A0 >5.m within 30 degrees=A0=A0=A0All who have been doing this for a whil=
e, know what our equipment will see.=A0=A0=A0If someone, with really nice h=
omebuilt sensors, would share these numbers, it would act, for me, as a ben=
chmark.
>=A0 Thanks, Ted
>=20
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0----- Original Message -----
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0*From:* Randy Pratt 
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0*To:* psn-l@.............. 
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0*Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0*Subject:* Re: Instument Quality
>=20
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0Chris,
>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 I apologize for misreading your tone and intent.=A0 It=
's an
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality.=A0 =
I agree
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0that a school purchasing an instrument for instruction should=
 have a
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0high quality but I don't see that our schools are at that poi=
nt or
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0that caveman is recommending this as a school solution.=A0 =
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Let me try to explain my sensitivity.=A0 My son's middle sc=
hool
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0dropped earth science to meet state mandates for an increase =
in
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0physical education hours.=A0 We moved shortly after that to a=
nother
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0state.=A0 Here I became involved with the science fair and to=
 my shock
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0the largest middle school in the region did not participate.=
=A0 When I
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0inquired I found no contract for extra work outside the class=
room
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0hours so no science projects.=A0 One high school science teac=
her
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra topics=
 in
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines.=A0 The=
 one
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0teacher that did let me demonstrate a seismograph left the ar=
ea
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0and her job was cut.=A0 A German exchange student I am hostin=
g is near
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0the top of the English class and shows better understanding t=
han
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0most others according to her teacher.=A0 She has only been in=
 the
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0US since August so what does that tell you.=A0 Our political =
mandates
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0are dumbing down the best students.=A0 It really is approved =
and
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0budgeted science only and that leaves only individual interes=
t.
>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 An old magazine article from 1960 something about a sm=
oked drum
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0seismograph stuck in my mind until I started to research in 1=
995 and
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0build my first.=A0 The Lehman article has been the basis for =
many on
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0this list but few of us are using pipe fittings on a board an=
ymore.=A0 =A0=A0=A0Maybe something simple like the caveman web page will sp=
ark other
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0individual interest.=A0 How well it functions doesn't matter
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach something=
 better
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0follow.=A0 That's where learning starts.=A0 Think about what =
percent of
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping i=
nto the
>=A0 =A0=A0=A0ground and being refolded?=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Randy
__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

Larry
I like the idea. I have been using a= spiral binder and pencil for 17 yrs. :). I have used Excel for other thing= s but -- sometimes it's hard to see the obvious. I would like to include th= e event info and distance to my station and also the signal size I record (= P-P). That way I can plot count vs magnitude vs distance with the computer = rather than by hand. Is there a convenient way to import the  winquake= data? I can always do it by hand.
Regards
Barry
 

---= On Fri, 10/23/09, Larry Conklin <lconklin@............> wrote:

From: Larry Conklin <lconklin@t= wcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Instument Quality
To: psn-l@............. om
Date: Friday, October 23, 2009, 6:52 AM

Hi Ted,

I have an Excel spreadsheet that I use to record the events I'= ve seen with my SG system.  The sheet includes a magnitude vs distance= scatter plot, with each point color coded (A - D) to represent my (very) s= ubjective assessment of the quality of the detection.  I have a databa= se of over 800 events.

My system is far from an optimal construction= and my location is pretty noisy, but I think overall my results are reason= ably typical of a fair to middlen amateur system.

If you or anyone e= lse would like a copy of the sheet and data to examine for comparison to yo= ur own results, I'd be happy to send it to you. I've included a few other f= eatures, and I use it to manage all of my event files.

Larry

= tchannel wrote:
> I have a follow up question, only somewhat related.=    When the sensor is completed, one of the first questions = a novice might ask is "What can I expect to see"?     I know this would depend, not only the sensor, but many = other things, like the location, and the other components of the station.> We all try to build the best one we can, using the ideas and materia= ls we have.   This site is the best tool I have in my worksh= op.
>  The most common statement I have seen is,  "My senso= r can see >7.0M anywhere in the world"   I have never com= plete a sensor which could not do this.
> I view USGS sites, and find= equipment costing thousands of dollars, pick up more and small events, the= n mine, but not not by much.
> I also know, several of my ideas are n= ot as sensitive as they could be, and some of the ideas simply don't work.&= nbsp;  I learn a lot from both failures and successes.
>&nb= sp; Could someone state, as best as you can "What should I expect to see"?<= br>> Something like:
>  >6.8m anywhere in the world.
>  >6.m within 90 degrees
>  >5.m withi= n 30 degrees   All who have been doing this for a while, kno= w what our equipment will see.   If someone, with really nic= e homebuilt sensors, would share these numbers, it would act, for me, as a = benchmark.
>  Thanks, Ted
>
>    &nb= sp;----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Ran= dy Pratt <mailto:rpratt@.............>
>&nbs= p;    *To:* psn-l@.............. <mai= lto:psn-l@..............>
>    &= nbsp;*Sent:* Friday, October 23, 2009 12:29 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: Instument Quality
>
>  =    Chris,
>          I apolog= ize for misreading your tone and intent.  It's an
>   =   unfortunate attribute of email that it loses personality. = I agree
>     that a school purchasing an instru= ment for instruction should have a
>     high qua= lity but I don't see that our schools are at that point or
>  &n= bsp;  that caveman is recommending this as a school solution.&nbs= p;         Let me try to explain my sensitivity.  = My son's middle school
>     dropped earth scienc= e to meet state mandates for an increase in
>     = ;physical education hours.  We moved shortly after that to another
= >     state.  Here I became involved with the science fair and to my shock
>     the = largest middle school in the region did not participate.  When I
&g= t;     inquired I found no contract for extra work outs= ide the classroom
>     hours so no science proje= cts.  One high school science teacher
>     = explained to me that there is no time to fit any extra topics in
>&nb= sp;    order to meet federal and state curriculum guidelines= ..  The one
>     teacher that did let me dem= onstrate a seismograph left the area
>     and he= r job was cut.  A German exchange student I am hosting is near
>=      the top of the English class and shows better unde= rstanding than
>     most others according to her= teacher.  She has only been in the
>     US since August so what does that tell you.  Our po= litical mandates
>     are dumbing down the best = students.  It really is approved and
>     b= udgeted science only and that leaves only individual interest.
> = ;         An old magazine article from 1960 something a= bout a smoked drum
>     seismograph stuck in my = mind until I started to research in 1995 and
>    &nbs= p;build my first.  The Lehman article has been the basis for many on>     this list but few of us are using pipe fitti= ngs on a board anymore.     Maybe something simple like= the caveman web page will spark other
>     indi= vidual interest.  How well it functions doesn't matter
>  &= nbsp;  if thinking is set in motion and the steps to reach something better
>     follow.  That's wher= e learning starts.  Think about what percent of
>   &n= bsp; aeronautical engineers started with paper airplanes looping into = the
>     ground and being refolded?   =       Randy
____________________________________________= ______________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To= leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISMIC= NET.COM with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
= See h= ttp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
<=
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