Geoff,
Sorry, but your time-worn Malthusian redux is  way over the top!
Regards,
Al
 
 
In a message dated 1/12/2010 6:59:51 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
gmvoeth@........... writes:

A  comment from me on animals as sensing devices;
A comment from me on the  overpopulation of this
abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called  earth.

If animals other than humans have the ability
to sense things  outside our normal range of senses
it simply makes common sense that that  they possibly
will react to stimuli that outside the normal
range of  human senses.

It is also possible for humans with damaged
senses to  respond to to something outside
the normal human senses simply because
a  damaged sensor may very possibly still be working
yet no longer is it  sensing what it was originally
designed to sense. Someone may appear  "CRAZY"
simply because they respond to stimuli not
sensed by the average  OTHER person. But in such a case
I would imagine there is some kind of  measurable
damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal  senses.

The sense of hearing depends upon tiny
hair cells being  stimulated at given frequencies.
If they are damaged ( broken to a  different length )
possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady  tone
which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic  conditions.
Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived
as  louder or softer depending upon the state of mind.
But if its Brownian  motion it will be continuous.
"TINNITUS???"

We are very limited in  our ability to sense the
world around us so military and  scientist
invent electronic and other sensing
devices to see the world  like an average human can not.

This is the kind of work for radar and  sonar and seismology
and warfare and science and  entertainment.

Isn't it interesting that when it boils
down to  science,the essence of a human
is simply electro-chemical in nature in  which
a complicated scenario comes together to
to form a soul which can  only exist in the past
and not in real time. Maybe tens of milliseconds in  the
past.

I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed  bugs
on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils
hop  about excitedly when any warm animal is close
and this activity can be  translated into a warning
making for a relatively cheap biological  sensor.
( made by GOD instead of man )

Now we can get into the  argument that is
something like this:
IF nature made man and man made  whatever,
THEN nature made whatever.
Only that which is impossible is  unnatural.
The unnatural can not happen except
within the combinations  and permutations
of electro-chemical activities within
the framework of  the human mind.

To get back to reality ???
It does not surprise me  in the least
that animals are sensitive to things the human animal  can
not normally perceive. But they will never
react before the fact,  whatever they are
sensing is in the past and has already happened.
It is  up to us to understand with our science
and imagination just what the hay  is going on.
If there is more than three variables do not expect
such  understanding to be easy.

STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE;
I  think animals will never be a very good
warning devices for earthquakes  since they
( unlike us )will not react before the fact.
The best methods  seem to be looking at the history
to see the future then build for the  future.
You can only do so much then it becomes a
matter of wasting  resources to chase a dream
that can never be realized.
How does one  measure the stresses and strains
within the earth ? It is those forces that  will tell
you when something is about to break.
But even then, not  exactly when.
When something does break then, shout a warning
to let  people get off their ladders
or balcony rails before the shaking  starts.
Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay  alive.

geoff

PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we shall all  be suffering )
I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50 years  ago.
There is not enough good land/resources to support the people who are  
already here
at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to  address this one
is through the compliance of the human race to voluntarily  reduce their own
fertility in order to maintain a decent status  quo.
Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human  inter-relations.
If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few  regional disasters
taking any meaningful toll of human  life.

Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem of  
overpopulation
in a scientific/non-religious/objective way.
They will  suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon 
whose  shoulders
rides the smart dwarf (scientists).

They say it would take  seven earths for all to enjoy the quality
of life in NORTH AMERICA alone.  So must you
reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so
without  adding to human suffering.



----- Original Message -----  
From: "Kay Wyatt" 
To:  
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37  PM
Subject: Animals and Earthquakes



I'm not sure how many of  you are aware of the CERT program (Community 
Emergency Response Team) which  was developed in 1985 by the 
Los Angeles City Fire Department in 1985 to  train ordinary citizens to be 
first responders in a major disaster.  The  program was 
later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials are  available 
online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm

In  their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths.  One of 
them  perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who 
can explain  this.  Below is the material in their training manual.  My 
questions  is what are the "first low frequency waves of an 
earthquake" that come  PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves?  Are they 
talking about EM or  non seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

Myth:
Animals can sense earthquakes and give  advance warning.



Fact:
Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves of an  
earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the 
damage-causing  primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind.  
Animals do not  make good earthquake warning  devices.




__________________________________________________________

Public  Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email  PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with 
the body of the message (first line  only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more  information.






Geoff,
Sorry, but your time-worn Malthusian redux is=
=20
way over the top!
Regards,
Al
 

In a message dated 1/12/2010 6:59:51 P.M. Central Standard Time,=20
gmvoeth@........... writes:
A=20
  comment from me on animals as sensing devices;
A comment from me on=
 the=20
  overpopulation of this
abnormal, septic, spaceship planet called=20
  earth.

If animals other than humans have the ability
to sense=
 things=20
  outside our normal range of senses
it simply makes common sense that=
 that=20
  they possibly
will react to stimuli that outside the normal
range=
 of=20
  human senses.

It is also possible for humans with damaged
sens=
es to=20
  respond to to something outside
the normal human senses simply becaus=
e
a=20
  damaged sensor may very possibly still be working
yet no longer is it=
=20
  sensing what it was originally
designed to sense. Someone may appear=
=20
  "CRAZY"
simply because they respond to stimuli not
sensed by the=
 average=20
  OTHER person. But in such a case
I would imagine there is some kind=
 of=20
  measurable
damage to their " the crazy one " otherwise normal=20
  senses.

The sense of hearing depends upon tiny
hair cells bein=
g=20
  stimulated at given frequencies.
If they are damaged ( broken to a=20
  different length )
possibly one may hear Brownian motion as a steady=
=20
  tone
which amplitude varies according to psycho-acoustic=20
  conditions.
Although the stimulus is constant it may be perceived
=
as=20
  louder or softer depending upon the state of mind.
But if its Brownia=
n=20
  motion it will be continuous.
"TINNITUS???"

We are very limite=
d in=20
  our ability to sense the
world around us so military and=20
  scientist
invent electronic and other sensing
devices to see the=
 world=20
  like an average human can not.

This is the kind of work for radar=
 and=20
  sonar and seismology
and warfare and science and=20
  entertainment.

Isn't it interesting that when it boils
down to=
=20
  science,the essence of a human
is simply electro-chemical in nature=
 in=20
  which
a complicated scenario comes together to
to form a soul whic=
h can=20
  only exist in the past
and not in real time. Maybe tens of millisecon=
ds in=20
  the
past.

I have been reading the Israeli military uses bed=20
  bugs
on the border to sense infrared presence. The little devils
h=
op=20
  about excitedly when any warm animal is close
and this activity can=
 be=20
  translated into a warning
making for a relatively cheap biological=20
  sensor.
( made by GOD instead of man )

Now we can get into the=
=20
  argument that is
something like this:
IF nature made man and man=
 made=20
  whatever,
THEN nature made whatever.
Only that which is impossible=
 is=20
  unnatural.
The unnatural can not happen except
within the combinat=
ions=20
  and permutations
of electro-chemical activities within
the framewo=
rk of=20
  the human mind.

To get back to reality ???
It does not surpris=
e me=20
  in the least
that animals are sensitive to things the human animal=20
  can
not normally perceive. But they will never
react before the fa=
ct,=20
  whatever they are
sensing is in the past and has already happened.It is=20
  up to us to understand with our science
and imagination just what the=
 hay=20
  is going on.
If there is more than three variables do not expect
s=
uch=20
  understanding to be easy.

STUDY THE PAST AND BUILD FOR THE FUTURE=
;
I=20
  think animals will never be a very good
warning devices for earthquak=
es=20
  since they
( unlike us )will not react before the fact.
The best=
 methods=20
  seem to be looking at the history
to see the future then build for th=
e=20
  future.
You can only do so much then it becomes a
matter of wastin=
g=20
  resources to chase a dream
that can never be realized.
How does on=
e=20
  measure the stresses and strains
within the earth ? It is those force=
s that=20
  will tell
you when something is about to break.
But even then, not=
=20
  exactly when.
When something does break then, shout a warning
to=
 let=20
  people get off their ladders
or balcony rails before the shaking=20
  starts.
Possibly seconds is all the warning you need to stay=20
  alive.

geoff

PS ( DO NOT OVERPOPULATE THE EARTH, or we sha=
ll all=20
  be suffering )
I have seen the sciences study this area too over 50=
 years=20
  ago.
There is not enough good land/resources to support the people wh=
o are=20
  already here
at any decent standard of living. The only decent way to=
=20
  address this one
is through the compliance of the human race to volun=
tarily=20
  reduce their own
fertility in order to maintain a decent status=20
  quo.
Otherwise you get something like the Nazi/Jew human=20
  inter-relations.
If humans were spread out thinly, there would be few=
=20
  regional disasters
taking any meaningful toll of human=20
  life.

Politicians are cowards if they do not address the problem=
 of=20
  overpopulation
in a scientific/non-religious/objective way.
They=
 will=20
  suffer the wrath of the stupid powerful idiot (public) upon whose=20
  shoulders
rides the smart dwarf (scientists).

They say it woul=
d take=20
  seven earths for all to enjoy the quality
of life in NORTH AMERICA al=
one.=20
  So must you
reduce the world population by 6/7, and, do so
without=
=20
  adding to human suffering.



----- Original Message -----=
=20
  
From: "Kay Wyatt" <kwyatt@.............>
To:=20
  <psn-l@..............>
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 12:37=20
  PM
Subject: Animals and Earthquakes



I'm not sure how=
 many of=20
  you are aware of the CERT program (Community Emergency Response Team) wh=
ich=20
  was developed in 1985 by the 
Los Angeles City Fire Department in 198=
5 to=20
  train ordinary citizens to be first responders in a major disaster. =
; The=20
  program was 
later adopted by FEMA (1993) and the training materials=
 are=20
  available online at http://www.citizencorps.gov/cert/index.shtm

I=
n=20
  their training manual they discuss various earthquake myths.  One=
 of them=20
  perplexes me and I would love to hear from anyone who 
can explain=20
  this.  Below is the material in their training manual.  My que=
stions=20
  is what are the "first low frequency waves of an 
earthquake" that co=
me=20
  PRIOR to the primary and secondary waves?  Are they talking about=
 EM or=20
  non seismic waves?

Their training guide.....

   =
=20
    Myth:
     Animals can sense earthquakes and gi=
ve=20
  advance warning.



      Fact:
 =20
     Animals may be able to sense the first low-frequency waves=
 of an=20
  earthquake that occur deep within the Earth, but the 
damage-causing=
=20
  primary and secondary waves follow just seconds behind.  Animals do=
 not=20
  make good earthquake warning=20
  devices.




____________________________________________=
______________

Public=20
  Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email=20
  PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with 
the body of the message (first lin=
e=20
  only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo=
re=20
  information.