PSN-L Email List Message

Subject: Re: Teflon tubing for paper recording system...
From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@.........
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 08:26:35 -0600


One can buy hypodermic syringes at almost any U.S.A., drug/prescription
store
freely without a prescription.  They are "over the counter".  They "may"
limit or withhold sales to a minor or other "suspect" customers (?).  They
can be freely ordered via the web at a multitude number of sites.

However, "dragging" up my own 1960's experiences; it's not the flexible
tubing
that is a major problem; it is somehow "creating" a modified syringe/needle
to be
relatively smooth and rounded at the tip where the paper contact occurs.
I was never successful at multiple attempts when trying to use syringe
needle tips....they always ended up snagging, cutting up all varieties of
recording paper, or not delivering the ink to the full curvature of the
pen's rotation onto the paper.  The only answer was too use pens from
professionally made instruments.  Even used instruments parts can present
problem/s as the tip maybe too worn to be of use, or they can be
clogged up with hardened ink (or it's compounds) to where even prolonged
water boiling, chemical cleansers or thinner wire rooting out can present
eventual recognized problems of damage/wear usefulness or not.  I suppose
that
someone or a number of people were successful at mechanical making
syringes work....but I've yet to hear or read of it.

If....the "pen-motor" or servo motor is sufficiently electrically driven one
may attain some
success with modifying commercial pen felt/fiber tip pen tips instead of
using metal tubes.
Their life is quite limited to wear and tear from friction and erosion, but
they maybe easier and cheaper to home brew than paying a bundle via a
expensive professional source....I did this quite a bit with servo motor
chart recorder long paper conveyor belt driven recording.

One might even investigate old style fountain pens use...at least they
likely have a smooth tip, but they may spatter ink on fast pen movement.

There is some potential to use small OD or ID plastic tubes themselves for
the pen/paper contact tip.  Some old "Recti-Writers" or whatever brand used
them.  It
"might" be possible to heat round the tips for a smooth rounded contact;
but that I've not attempted....but it seems more mentally plausible than
metal
tip creation.

It's a real challenge to continuously use ink pin recording.  A lot of the
public image of seismographs still ~ centers on the old nostalgic view of
"drum" recorders and such; and I'd guess such "machines" probably
draw more viewing and mental pause than with simply viewing a
impersonal computer monitor; at least where ever they still operate.

Everything is a eventual problem with ink recording.  Paper, ink, pens,
mechanical
paper/drum or chart drive controls.  For those that have conquered such,
it's somewhat like owning and operating a old classic vehicle in good
mechanical condition....it's a
totally personal challenge thing and they do draw satisfaction from
successfully
completing such.  Yes, computer recording use is ~ relatively (too) easy too
use;
as most of the potential problems have already been resolved by the
commercial
product developer....if....one grasps the computerize lingo that may or may
not
come with the electronics.

For any desperate metal tube pin searchers I do have a ~ small drawer that
contains various used size ink metal pens that may or may not work.  I've
also a
limited number of heat stylus pens.  I suppose the best approach would be to
digitally photograph them on present them on my Picasa web site eventually;
if, there is a sincere interest.  Keep in mind that the likely hood of the
the necessity for "size" reduction or extension maybe necessary as there
were probably hundreds of brand/model variations made over the past decades.
Don't expect immediate potential results; it's not at the top of my
"honey-do"
priority list/s.

Take care, Meredith














On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Ben Bradley  wrote:

> On 8/4/2011 8:07 PM, Christopher Chapman wrote:
>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Teflon tubing for paper recording system...
>>
>>
>> Hi Folks,
>>     OK, so we want SS capillary tubing to make pens. Would someone who
>> still uses ink systems measure the length and the OD of the capillary
>> tube actually used please, so that we know what to look for ?
>>     Does anyone in the USA have a source of SS capillary tube ?
>> Someone must stock it ! I have bought it in 1 m lengths.
>>
>
> McMaster Carr has small SS tubing with an ID of 0.004 inch and larger:
> http://www.mcmaster.com/
> Type in tubing. From there look under material, metal, and click on
> Stainless Steel. There are many sizes (you can pick inner diameter first),
> and the smaller inner diameters appear to cost $5 to $7 each in 12-inch
> lengths. This is cheap enough to buy several and experiment.
>
> But doing online research to find what size works with what ink may be
> helpful. I did a few searches such as this:
> http://www.google.com/search?**q=ink+pen+capillary+size
> but found nothing directly helpful, though Wikipedia's plotter entry is
> interesting:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Plotter
> There seems to be a body of people using old pen plotters, and finding a
> forum of such people may be fruitful. Also, the plotter entry links to the
> Technical Pen entry, which looks very interesting:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Technical_pen
> Such a pen could perhaps be used as-is, or if the in-pen cartridge ink
> supply is insufficient, just use the tip and a plastic tube to feed the ink
> as you were originally planning.
>
>
>      Why are you bothered about teflon tube, when PVC wire insulation
>> tube is available cheaply ? Don't make the task any harder than it
>> needs to be !
>>     The smallparts prices seem to be idiotic. If you can get hold of
>> a sharpened needle, all you need to do is to snip the tip off with
>> wire cutters and it is no longer a medical injection needle !
>>     Can someone check Charles' belief that it is illegal in the USA
>> to POSSES a medical needle, please ? It sounds highly unlikely to me.
>> We have mobile clinics giving clean needles out FREE to junkies
>> prevent the spread of disease !
>>     Regards,
>>     Chris
>>
>>
>>
> ______________________________**____________________________
>
> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>
> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of
> the message (first line only): unsubscribe
> See http://www.seismicnet.com/**maillist.htmlfor more information.
>
One can buy hypodermic syringes at almost any U.S.A., drug/prescription sto=
re
freely without a prescription. =A0They are "over the counter&qu= ot;. =A0They "may"
limit or withhold sales to a minor o= r other "suspect" customers (?). =A0They
can be freely ordered via the web at a multitude number of sites.

However, "dragging" up my own 1960's exp= eriences; it's not the flexible tubing
that is a=A0major prob= lem; it is somehow "creating" a modified syringe/needle to be
relatively smooth and rounded at the tip where the paper contact occur= s.
I was never successful at multiple attempts when trying to use= syringe
needle tips....they always ended up snagging, cutting up= all varieties of
recording paper, or not delivering the ink to the full curvature of th= e
pen's rotation onto the paper. =A0The only answer was too u= se pens from
professionally made instruments. =A0Even used instru= ments parts can present
problem/s as the tip maybe too worn to be of use, or they can be=A0
clogged up with hardened ink (or it's compounds) to where even = prolonged
water boiling,=A0chemical cleansers or thinner wire=A0r= ooting out can present
eventual recognized problems of damage/wear=A0usefulness or not. =A0I = suppose that
someone or a number of people were successful at mec= hanical making
syringes work....but I've yet to hear or read = of it. =A0

If....the "pen-motor" or servo motor is suffi= ciently electrically driven one may attain some
success=A0with mo= difying commercial pen felt/fiber tip pen tips instead of using metal tubes= ..
Their life is quite limited to wear and tear from friction and erosion= , but
they maybe easier and cheaper to home brew than paying a bundle via a<= /div>
expensive=A0professional source....I did this quite a bit with se= rvo motor
chart recorder long paper conveyor belt driven recordin= g.

One might even investigate old style fountain pens use.= ...at least they
likely have a smooth tip, but they may spatter ink on fast pen movemen= t.

There is some potential to use small OD or ID p= lastic tubes themselves for
the pen/paper=A0contact tip. =A0Some = old "Recti-Writers" or whatever brand used them. =A0It
"might" be possible to heat round the tips for a smooth roun= ded contact;
but that I've not attempted....but it seems more= mentally plausible than metal
tip creation.
=A0
It's a real challenge to continuously use ink pin recording. =A0A = lot of the=A0
public image of seismographs=A0still ~ centers on t= he old nostalgic view of
"drum" recorders and such; and I'd guess such "mach= ines" probably
draw more viewing and mental pause than with = simply viewing a
impersonal computer monitor;=A0at least where ev= er they still operate.

Everything is a eventual problem with ink recording. = =A0Paper, ink, pens, mechanical
paper/drum or chart drive control= s. =A0For those that have conquered such, it's somewhat like owning=A0a= nd operating a old classic vehicle in good mechanical condition....it's= a
totally personal challenge=A0thing and they do draw satisfaction from = successfully
completing such. =A0Yes, computer recording use is ~= relatively (too) easy too use;
as most=A0of the potential proble= ms have already been resolved by the commercial
product developer....if....one grasps the computerize lingo that may o= r may not
come with the electronics.

For= any desperate metal tube pin searchers I do have a ~ small drawer that
contains various used size ink metal pens that may or may not work. = =A0I've also a
limited=A0number of heat stylus pens. =A0I sup= pose the best approach would be to
digitally photograph them on p= resent them on my Picasa web site eventually;
if, there is a sincere interest. =A0Keep in mind that the likely hood = of the
the necessity for "size" reduction or extension = maybe necessary as there=A0
were probably hundreds of brand/model= variations made over the past decades.
Don't expect immediate potential results; it's not at the top = of my "honey-do"
priority list/s.=A0

Take care, Meredith=A0



<= /div>

=A0=A0


=A0=A0 =A0


=

=A0=A0


On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Ben Bradley <benbradley= @...........> wrote:
On 8/4/2011 8:07 PM, Christopher Chapma= n wrote:

Subject: Re: Teflon tubing for paper recording system...


Hi Folks,
=A0 =A0 OK, so we want SS capillary tubing to make pens. Would someone who=
still uses ink systems measure the length and the OD of the capillary
tube actually used please, so that we know what to look for ?
=A0 =A0 Does anyone in the USA have a source of SS capillary tube ?
Someone must stock it ! I have bought it in 1 m lengths.

McMaster Carr has small SS tubing with an ID of 0.004 inch and larger:
http://www.mcmaster.= com/
Type in tubing. From there look under material, metal, and click on Stainle= ss Steel. There are many sizes (you can pick inner diameter first), and the= smaller inner diameters appear to cost $5 to $7 each in 12-inch lengths. T= his is cheap enough to buy several and experiment.

But doing online research to find what size works with what ink may be help= ful. I did a few searches such as this:
http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dink+pen+capillary+size<= /a>
but found nothing directly helpful, though Wikipedia's plotter entry is= interesting:
http://e= n.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotter
There seems to be a body of people using old pen plotters, and finding a fo= rum of such people may be fruitful. Also, the plotter entry links to the Te= chnical Pen entry, which looks very interesting:
ht= tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_pen
Such a pen could perhaps be used as-is, or if the in-pen cartridge ink supp= ly is insufficient, just use the tip and a plastic tube to feed the ink as = you were originally planning.


=A0 =A0 Why are you bothered about teflon tube, when PVC wire insulation tube is available cheaply ? Don't make the task any harder than it
needs to be !
=A0 =A0 The smallparts prices seem to be idiotic. If you can get hold of a sharpened needle, all you need to do is to snip the tip off with
wire cutters and it is no longer a medical injection needle !
=A0 =A0 Can someone check Charles' belief that it is illegal in the US= A
to POSSES a medical needle, please ? It sounds highly unlikely to me.
We have mobile clinics giving clean needles out FREE to junkies
prevent the spread of disease !
=A0 =A0 Regards,
=A0 =A0 Chris



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Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the m= essage (first line only): unsubscribe
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