PSN-L Email List Message

Subject: Re: Teflon tubing for paper recording system...
From: "James L. Gundersen" jgundie@.......
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 14:18:15 -0700


Hi,

Back in the "70s" I used the pen tip assembly from a Rapidograph pen.  
Supplied the ink through a foot long small flexible plastic tubing that 
siphoned from an ink bottle mounted to the back of my 10 pound 
"galvanomenter" that traveled across the width of the paper.

Jim



On 8/5/2011 7:26 AM, meredith lamb wrote:
> One can buy hypodermic syringes at almost any U.S.A., 
> drug/prescription store
> freely without a prescription.  They are "over the counter".  They "may"
> limit or withhold sales to a minor or other "suspect" customers (?).  They
> can be freely ordered via the web at a multitude number of sites.
>
> However, "dragging" up my own 1960's experiences; it's not the 
> flexible tubing
> that is a major problem; it is somehow "creating" a modified 
> syringe/needle to be
> relatively smooth and rounded at the tip where the paper contact occurs.
> I was never successful at multiple attempts when trying to use syringe
> needle tips....they always ended up snagging, cutting up all varieties of
> recording paper, or not delivering the ink to the full curvature of the
> pen's rotation onto the paper.  The only answer was too use pens from
> professionally made instruments.  Even used instruments parts can present
> problem/s as the tip maybe too worn to be of use, or they can be
> clogged up with hardened ink (or it's compounds) to where even prolonged
> water boiling, chemical cleansers or thinner wire rooting out can present
> eventual recognized problems of damage/wear usefulness or not.  I 
> suppose that
> someone or a number of people were successful at mechanical making
> syringes work....but I've yet to hear or read of it.
>
> If....the "pen-motor" or servo motor is sufficiently electrically 
> driven one may attain some
> success with modifying commercial pen felt/fiber tip pen tips instead 
> of using metal tubes.
> Their life is quite limited to wear and tear from friction and 
> erosion, but
> they maybe easier and cheaper to home brew than paying a bundle via a
> expensive professional source....I did this quite a bit with servo motor
> chart recorder long paper conveyor belt driven recording.
>
> One might even investigate old style fountain pens use...at least they
> likely have a smooth tip, but they may spatter ink on fast pen movement.
>
> There is some potential to use small OD or ID plastic tubes themselves for
> the pen/paper contact tip.  Some old "Recti-Writers" or whatever brand 
> used them.  It
> "might" be possible to heat round the tips for a smooth rounded contact;
> but that I've not attempted....but it seems more mentally plausible 
> than metal
> tip creation.
> It's a real challenge to continuously use ink pin recording.  A lot of 
> the
> public image of seismographs still ~ centers on the old nostalgic view of
> "drum" recorders and such; and I'd guess such "machines" probably
> draw more viewing and mental pause than with simply viewing a
> impersonal computer monitor; at least where ever they still operate.
>
> Everything is a eventual problem with ink recording.  Paper, ink, 
> pens, mechanical
> paper/drum or chart drive controls.  For those that have conquered 
> such, it's somewhat like owning and operating a old classic vehicle in 
> good mechanical condition....it's a
> totally personal challenge thing and they do draw satisfaction from 
> successfully
> completing such.  Yes, computer recording use is ~ relatively (too) 
> easy too use;
> as most of the potential problems have already been resolved by the 
> commercial
> product developer....if....one grasps the computerize lingo that may 
> or may not
> come with the electronics.
>
> For any desperate metal tube pin searchers I do have a ~ small drawer that
> contains various used size ink metal pens that may or may not work. 
>  I've also a
> limited number of heat stylus pens.  I suppose the best approach would 
> be to
> digitally photograph them on present them on my Picasa web site 
> eventually;
> if, there is a sincere interest.  Keep in mind that the likely hood of the
> the necessity for "size" reduction or extension maybe necessary as there
> were probably hundreds of brand/model variations made over the past 
> decades.
> Don't expect immediate potential results; it's not at the top of my 
> "honey-do"
> priority list/s.
>
> Take care, Meredith
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Ben Bradley  > wrote:
>
>     On 8/4/2011 8:07 PM, Christopher Chapman wrote:
>
>
>         Subject: Re: Teflon tubing for paper recording system...
>
>
>         Hi Folks,
>             OK, so we want SS capillary tubing to make pens. Would
>         someone who
>         still uses ink systems measure the length and the OD of the
>         capillary
>         tube actually used please, so that we know what to look for ?
>             Does anyone in the USA have a source of SS capillary tube ?
>         Someone must stock it ! I have bought it in 1 m lengths.
>
>
>     McMaster Carr has small SS tubing with an ID of 0.004 inch and larger:
>     http://www.mcmaster.com/
>     Type in tubing. From there look under material, metal, and click
>     on Stainless Steel. There are many sizes (you can pick inner
>     diameter first), and the smaller inner diameters appear to cost $5
>     to $7 each in 12-inch lengths. This is cheap enough to buy several
>     and experiment.
>
>     But doing online research to find what size works with what ink
>     may be helpful. I did a few searches such as this:
>     http://www.google.com/search?q=ink+pen+capillary+size
>     but found nothing directly helpful, though Wikipedia's plotter
>     entry is interesting:
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotter
>     There seems to be a body of people using old pen plotters, and
>     finding a forum of such people may be fruitful. Also, the plotter
>     entry links to the Technical Pen entry, which looks very interesting:
>     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_pen
>     Such a pen could perhaps be used as-is, or if the in-pen cartridge
>     ink supply is insufficient, just use the tip and a plastic tube to
>     feed the ink as you were originally planning.
>
>
>             Why are you bothered about teflon tube, when PVC wire
>         insulation
>         tube is available cheaply ? Don't make the task any harder than it
>         needs to be !
>             The smallparts prices seem to be idiotic. If you can get
>         hold of
>         a sharpened needle, all you need to do is to snip the tip off with
>         wire cutters and it is no longer a medical injection needle !
>             Can someone check Charles' belief that it is illegal in
>         the USA
>         to POSSES a medical needle, please ? It sounds highly unlikely
>         to me.
>         We have mobile clinics giving clean needles out FREE to junkies
>         prevent the spread of disease !
>             Regards,
>             Chris
>
>
>
>     __________________________________________________________
>
>     Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>
>     To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@..............
>      with the body of the
>     message (first line only): unsubscribe
>     See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
>
>



  
    
  
  
    Hi,

Back in the "70s" I used the pen tip assembly from a Rapidograph pen.  Supplied the ink through a foot long small flexible plastic tubing that siphoned from an ink bottle mounted to the back of my 10 pound "galvanomenter" that traveled across the width of the paper.

Jim



On 8/5/2011 7:26 AM, meredith lamb wrote:
One can buy hypodermic syringes at almost any U.S.A., drug/prescription store
freely without a prescription.  They are "over the counter".  They "may"
limit or withhold sales to a minor or other "suspect" customers (?).  They
can be freely ordered via the web at a multitude number of sites.

However, "dragging" up my own 1960's experiences; it's not the flexible tubing
that is a major problem; it is somehow "creating" a modified syringe/needle to be
relatively smooth and rounded at the tip where the paper contact occurs.
I was never successful at multiple attempts when trying to use syringe
needle tips....they always ended up snagging, cutting up all varieties of
recording paper, or not delivering the ink to the full curvature of the
pen's rotation onto the paper.  The only answer was too use pens from
professionally made instruments.  Even used instruments parts can present
problem/s as the tip maybe too worn to be of use, or they can be 
clogged up with hardened ink (or it's compounds) to where even prolonged
water boiling, chemical cleansers or thinner wire rooting out can present
eventual recognized problems of damage/wear usefulness or not.  I suppose that
someone or a number of people were successful at mechanical making
syringes work....but I've yet to hear or read of it.  

If....the "pen-motor" or servo motor is sufficiently electrically driven one may attain some
success with modifying commercial pen felt/fiber tip pen tips instead of using metal tubes.
Their life is quite limited to wear and tear from friction and erosion, but
they maybe easier and cheaper to home brew than paying a bundle via a
expensive professional source....I did this quite a bit with servo motor
chart recorder long paper conveyor belt driven recording.

One might even investigate old style fountain pens use...at least they
likely have a smooth tip, but they may spatter ink on fast pen movement.

There is some potential to use small OD or ID plastic tubes themselves for
the pen/paper contact tip.  Some old "Recti-Writers" or whatever brand used them.  It
"might" be possible to heat round the tips for a smooth rounded contact;
but that I've not attempted....but it seems more mentally plausible than metal
tip creation.
 
It's a real challenge to continuously use ink pin recording.  A lot of the 
public image of seismographs still ~ centers on the old nostalgic view of
"drum" recorders and such; and I'd guess such "machines" probably
draw more viewing and mental pause than with simply viewing a
impersonal computer monitor; at least where ever they still operate.

Everything is a eventual problem with ink recording.  Paper, ink, pens, mechanical
paper/drum or chart drive controls.  For those that have conquered such, it's somewhat like owning and operating a old classic vehicle in good mechanical condition....it's a
totally personal challenge thing and they do draw satisfaction from successfully
completing such.  Yes, computer recording use is ~ relatively (too) easy too use;
as most of the potential problems have already been resolved by the commercial
product developer....if....one grasps the computerize lingo that may or may not
come with the electronics.

For any desperate metal tube pin searchers I do have a ~ small drawer that
contains various used size ink metal pens that may or may not work.  I've also a
limited number of heat stylus pens.  I suppose the best approach would be to
digitally photograph them on present them on my Picasa web site eventually;
if, there is a sincere interest.  Keep in mind that the likely hood of the
the necessity for "size" reduction or extension maybe necessary as there 
were probably hundreds of brand/model variations made over the past decades.
Don't expect immediate potential results; it's not at the top of my "honey-do"
priority list/s. 

Take care, Meredith 




  


    



  


On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Ben Bradley <benbradley@...........> wrote:
On 8/4/2011 8:07 PM, Christopher Chapman wrote:

Subject: Re: Teflon tubing for paper recording system...


Hi Folks,
    OK, so we want SS capillary tubing to make pens. Would someone who
still uses ink systems measure the length and the OD of the capillary
tube actually used please, so that we know what to look for ?
    Does anyone in the USA have a source of SS capillary tube ?
Someone must stock it ! I have bought it in 1 m lengths.

McMaster Carr has small SS tubing with an ID of 0.004 inch and larger:
http://www.mcmaster.com/
Type in tubing. From there look under material, metal, and click on Stainless Steel. There are many sizes (you can pick inner diameter first), and the smaller inner diameters appear to cost $5 to $7 each in 12-inch lengths. This is cheap enough to buy several and experiment.

But doing online research to find what size works with what ink may be helpful. I did a few searches such as this:
http://www.google.com/search?q=ink+pen+capillary+size
but found nothing directly helpful, though Wikipedia's plotter entry is interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plotter
There seems to be a body of people using old pen plotters, and finding a forum of such people may be fruitful. Also, the plotter entry links to the Technical Pen entry, which looks very interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_pen
Such a pen could perhaps be used as-is, or if the in-pen cartridge ink supply is insufficient, just use the tip and a plastic tube to feed the ink as you were originally planning.


    Why are you bothered about teflon tube, when PVC wire insulation
tube is available cheaply ? Don't make the task any harder than it
needs to be !
    The smallparts prices seem to be idiotic. If you can get hold of
a sharpened needle, all you need to do is to snip the tip off with
wire cutters and it is no longer a medical injection needle !
    Can someone check Charles' belief that it is illegal in the USA
to POSSES a medical needle, please ? It sounds highly unlikely to me.
We have mobile clinics giving clean needles out FREE to junkies
prevent the spread of disease !
    Regards,
    Chris



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To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
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