Hi all,

The magnet setup that Randall uses, which is 3 magnets attracting
together, is NOT, the exact same setup that David Lamb used.

Whether the small movement "latching/roughness" subject is still as
a predominate feature with his setup....as compared to Randalls
magnets setup, and/or our general experiments with the same;
I just don't really know.

David's setup uses 3 magnets also, but the center magnet uses
slightly recessed iron on both sides of it, and, the PG is two thin
oblong strips that are smaller in width than the iron underneath
and they fit in the two channels.  Connecting the two thin strips of PG
is a light weight flat platform to secure the PG and the sensing
mechanism atop it also.  It's like a catamaran boat, with two
spaced hulls, with the rest of the ship atop them that are "floating"
in the two iron channels.  The two iron strips used were ground
down more toward the center of the lengths ...to achieve the
desired centering action.  The idea was originally suggested by
Chris Chapman years ago.

***It's quite doable to use common select brand very diamagnetic
graphite mechanical pencil refill leads instead of PG, for these "outboard"
diamagnetic levitation "pontoons".  PG is notoriously very difficult
to manually shape; whereas pencil leads are often very straight,
and can be connected together with glue as needed.  The  pontoon
"bridge" has to be very light weight, strong and above the center
magnet; using something like a old thin electronic mica insulator or
similar.
The sensor "flag" is atop the bridge.  It's delicate work and the spacing
has to be just right, but it's a lot cheaper and quicker than finding
and shaping PG to fit.  Pentel brand super Hi-polymer leads are
available in 0.5, 0.7 and 0.9mm diameter sizes in a great many
retail stores...naturally the bigger size is easier to adopt.  Most of
the rest of the various mechanical pencil refill brands are not
diamagnetic.

Take care, Meredith

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Charles R Patton  wrote:

>  Interesting observations about the possibility of diamagnetic
> roughness.  This brings up two observations:
> 1) By the current theories of magnetic flux lines as I understand them,
> there is no possibility for them to exhibit "kinks or roughness" at the
> scales and method of field generation we're discussing.  (The non-smooth
> examples I'm thinking of are of solar magnetic flux that also include ion
> current flow,  tokamaks, etc.)
>
> 2) So that leaves two possibilities in my mind:
>     a) The magnetic field is undergoing slight changes in field strength
> with the actual counterpressure of the carbon being levitated.  Hard to
> imagine with the relative strengths of the permanent magnets -- but still a
> possibility.  I've never heard of such a thing myself, but what do I know?
> Maybe a PhD thesis here?
>     b) The carbon diamagnetic properties exhibit a domain phenomenon in a
> similar vein to the ferromagnetic properties of iron.  Again, " I've never
> heard of such a thing, but what do I know?  Maybe a PhD thesis here?"
>
> In a more blue sky way of reasoning, project the following thoughts:
> 1) Dr. Randall Peters has brought to this list the interesting concepts of
> mesoscale damping.  Part of what I take away from that concept is that as
> we burrow down in dimension, the concept of an amorphous solid with smooth
> mathematically described properties breaks down.  Just as ferrous magnetics
> were thought to be smooth, the discovery of Barkhausen noise was discovered
> early on to be the individual magnetic domains switching.  Diamagnetic
> properties come from electron properties of masses of atoms just as the
> ferrous magnetic properties do.  So, atoms can move within a "solid".  The
> most stable solids are crystalline in nature, where the atoms are locked in
> both space and orientation.    The big question, "Would a crystalline
> diamagnetic solid exhibit this magnetIc "roughness", perhaps equivalent to
> the Barkhausen noise?    The experiment to perform here is to use a
> Barkhausen test setup, but substitute carbon for iron.
>
> Just a few idle thoughts for the morning.
> Charles R. Patton
>
>
>
>
Hi all,

The magnet setup that Randall uses,=A0which is 3=
 magnets attracting
together, is NOT, the exact same setup=A0that=
 David Lamb used.

Whether the small movement "=
;latching/roughness" subject is still as=A0
a predominate=A0feature with his setup....as compared to Randalls
magnets setup, and/or our general experiments with the same;
I just don't=A0really know.

David's setup=
 uses 3 magnets also, but the center magnet uses
slightly recesse=
d iron on both sides of it, and, the PG is two thin

oblong strips that are smaller in width than the iron underneath
=
and they fit in the two channels. =A0Connecting the two thin strips of=
 PG
is a light weight flat platform to=A0secure the PG and the se=
nsing

mechanism atop it also. =A0It's like=A0a catamaran boat, with two<=
/div>
spaced hulls, with the rest of the ship=A0atop them that are &quo=
t;floating"
in the two iron channels. =A0The two iron=A0stri=
ps used were ground

down more=A0toward the center of the lengths=A0...to achieve the=A0
desired centering action. =A0The idea was originally suggested=A0by=
Chris=A0Chapman years ago. =A0

***It=
9;s quite doable to use common select brand very diamagnetic

graphite mechanical pencil refill=A0leads instead=A0of=A0PG, for these=
 "outboard"=A0
diamagnetic levitation=A0"pontoons&=
quot;. =A0PG is notoriously very difficult
to manually shape;=A0w=
hereas pencil=A0leads are often very straight,

and can be connected=A0together with=A0glue as needed. =A0The =A0ponto=
on
"bridge" has to be=A0very light weight,=A0strong and=
 above the center
magnet; using=A0something=A0like a old thin=A0e=
lectronic mica insulator or similar.

The=A0sensor "flag"=A0is atop the bridge. =A0It's delica=
te work and the spacing
has to be just right, but it's a lot =
cheaper and quicker than finding
and shaping PG to fit. =A0Pentel=
 brand super Hi-polymer leads are
available in 0.5, 0.7=A0and 0.9mm diameter sizes in a great many
=
retail stores...naturally the bigger size is easier to adopt. =A0Most =
of
the rest=A0of the various mechanical pencil refill brands are =
not
diamagnetic.

Take care, Meredith=A0

On Mon, Jul 9, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Charles R Patton <charles.r.patton@........> wrote:


 =20
   =20
 =20
  

    
Interesting observations about the
      possibility of diamagnetic roughness.=A0 This brings up two
      observations:

      1) By the current theories of magnetic flux lines as I understand
      them, there is no possibility for them to exhibit "kinks or
      roughness" at the scales and method of field generation we'r=
e
      discussing.=A0 (The non-smooth examples I'm thinking of are of so=
lar
      magnetic flux that also include ion current flow,=A0 tokamaks, etc.)<=
br>
      

      2) So that leaves two possibilities in my mind:

      =A0=A0=A0 a) The magnetic field is undergoing slight changes in field
      strength with the actual counterpressure of the carbon being
      levitated.=A0 Hard to imagine with the relative strengths of the
      permanent magnets -- but still a possibility.=A0 I've never heard=
 of
      such a thing myself, but what do I know?=A0 Maybe a PhD thesis here?<=
br>
      =A0=A0=A0 b) The carbon diamagnetic properties exhibit a domain
      phenomenon in a similar vein to the ferromagnetic properties of
      iron.=A0 Again, " I've never heard of such a thing, but what=
 do I
      know?=A0 Maybe a PhD thesis here?"=A0 

      

      In a more blue sky way of reasoning, project the following
      thoughts:

      1) Dr. Randall Peters has brought to this list the interesting
      concepts of mesoscale damping.=A0 Part of what I take away from that
      concept is that as we burrow down in dimension, the concept of an
      amorphous solid with smooth mathematically described properties
      breaks down.=A0 Just as ferrous magnetics were thought to be smooth,
      the discovery of Barkhausen noise was discovered early on to be
      the individual magnetic domains switching.=A0 Diamagnetic=A0
      properties come from electron properties of masses of atoms just
      as the ferrous magnetic properties do.=A0 So, atoms can move within
      a "solid".=A0 The most stable solids are crystalline in nat=
ure,
      where the atoms are locked in both space and orientation.=A0=A0=A0 Th=
e
      big question, "Would a crystalline diamagnetic solid exhibit thi=
s
      magnetIc "roughness", perhaps equivalent to the Barkhausen =
noise?=A0
      =A0 The experiment to perform here is to use a Barkhausen test
      setup, but substitute carbon for iron. =A0 =A0=A0 

      

      Just a few idle thoughts for the morning.

      Charles R. Patton


      =A0