From: Charles R Patton charles.r.patton@........
Subject: Re: diamagnetic levitation seismometer possibility


             =20
Interesting observations about the      possibility of diamagnetic roughnes=
s.  This brings up two      observations:
      1) By the current theories of magnetic flux lines as I understand    =
  them, there is no possibility for them to exhibit "kinks or      roughnes=
s" at the scales and method of field generation we're      discussing.=20
     =20
Hi Charles,
=20
    That is correct as I understand it. Flux lines in free space are often =
curved, but never kinky!

      2) So that leaves two possibilities in my mind:
          a) The magnetic field is undergoing slight changes in field      =
strength with the actual counterpressure of the carbon being      levitated=
..  Hard to imagine with the relative strengths of the      permanent magnet=
s -- but still a possibility.=20
=20
    There is no reason to suppose that the tiny reaction is in any way 'rou=
gh' or inelastic.=20

          b) The carbon diamagnetic properties exhibit a domain      phenom=
enon in a similar vein to the ferromagnetic properties of      iron. =20
     =20
    The diamagnetic materials don't form domains. The domains in some ferro=
us materials are a property of the close coupled interaction in that partic=
ular crystal stucture between the iron atoms. But you DO get alloys contain=
ing a high proportion of iron which are NOT ferro-magnetic !! eg the Austen=
itic Stainless Steels. =20
    While the field strength at the magnet's surface is likely to vary alon=
g the length, the levitation is maybe 1/2 to 1 mm, but small quakes are mea=
sured in 10s of nano metres, maybe 1/10,000 of this.
     =20
In a more blue sky way of reasoning, project the following      thoughts:
      1) Dr. Randall Peters has brought to this list the interesting      c=
oncepts of mesoscale damping.  Part of what I take away from that      conc=
ept is that as we burrow down in dimension, the concept of an      amorphou=
s solid with smooth mathematically described properties      breaks down.  =
Just as ferrous magnetics were thought to be smooth,      the discovery of =
Barkhausen noise was discovered early on to be      the individual magnetic=
 domains switching.  Diamagnetic       properties come from electron proper=
ties of masses of atoms just      as the ferrous magnetic properties do.  S=
o, atoms can move within      a "solid".  The most stable solids are crysta=
lline in nature,      where the atoms are locked in both space and orientat=
ion.    The      big question, "Would a crystalline diamagnetic solid exhib=
it this      magnetIc "roughness", perhaps equivalent to the Barkhausen noi=
se?         The experiment to perform here is to use a Barkhausen test     =
 setup, but substitute carbon for iron.     =20

      Charles R. Patton
      =20
On 7/9/2012 9:34 AM, chrisatupw@....... wrote:=20
From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@.........
          Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 15:02
          Subject: Re: diamagnetic levitation seismometer possibility
       =20
       =20
         =20
                           =20
I, too, have carried out diamagnetic levitation                  experiment=
s similar to those by Meredith Lamb.                  Although the large am=
plitude motion looks smooth and                  frictionless, what I concl=
uded for very small                  amplitudes, such is not the case. The =
supporting                  magnetic field has small-scale roughness, and t=
he                  levitated graphite tends to hung up in the hills and   =
               valleys of the resulting force.=20
               =20

I don't understand this. I would only expect 'field roughness' to show up f=
or linear motions comparable to the levitation height, of 1/2 to 1 mm, NOT =
for tiny movements of ~100 nano metres.=20
    One problem that I had with levitating graphite was due to it's propens=
ity to pick up lint, hairs and dust. These can and do effect a very light s=
lider. Another problem is the extremely high field gradients at the edges o=
f the magnets picks up magnetic and paramagnetic dust only too easily. I cl=
ean magnets using a roll of PVC tape - you stick it onto the surface and th=
en peel it of with the rubbish attached.
=20
    Regards,=20
=20
    Chris Chapman





 =20
=20
=20
=20
=20

























From: Charles R Patton ch=
arles.r.patton@........




Subject: Re: diamagnetic levitation seismometer possibility

























 =20
   =20
 =20
 =20
   =20



Interesting observations about the
      possibility of diamagnetic roughness.  This brings up two
      observations:





      1) By the current theories of magnetic flux lines as I understand
      them, there is no possibility for them to exhibit "kinks or
      roughness" at the scales and method of field generation we're
      discussing. 





      







Hi Charles,



 







    That is =
correct as I understand it. Flux lines in free space are often curved, but =
never kinky!













      2) So that leaves two possibilities in my mind:





          a) The magnetic field is undergoing slight changes=
 in field
      strength with the actual counterpressure of the carbon being
      levitated.  Hard to imagine with the relative strengths of the
      permanent magnets -- but still a possibility. 







 







    There is=
 no reason to suppose that the tiny reaction is in any way 'rough' or inela=
stic. 













          b) The carbon diamagnetic properties exhibit a dom=
ain
      phenomenon in a similar vein to the ferromagnetic properties of
      iron.  





      







    The diam=
agnetic materials don't form domains. The domains in some ferrous mate=
rials are a property of the close coupled interaction in that particular&nb=
sp;crystal stucture between the iron atoms. But you DO get alloys cont=
aining a high proportion of iron which are NOT ferro-magnetic !! eg th=
e Austenitic Stainless Steels.  







    While th=
e field strength at the magnet's surface is likely to vary along the length=
, the levitation is maybe 1/2 to 1 mm, but small quakes are measured i=
n 10s of nano metres, maybe 1/10,000 of this.





      







In a more blue sky way of reasoning, project=
 the following
      thoughts:





      1) Dr. Randall Peters has brought to this list the interesting
      concepts of mesoscale damping.  Part of what I take away from th=
at
      concept is that as we burrow down in dimension, the concept of an
      amorphous solid with smooth mathematically described properties
      breaks down.  Just as ferrous magnetics were thought to be smoot=
h,
      the discovery of Barkhausen noise was discovered early on to be
      the individual magnetic domains switching.  Diamagnetic 
      properties come from electron properties of masses of atoms just
      as the ferrous magnetic properties do.  So, atoms can move withi=
n
      a "solid".  The most stable solids are crystalline in nature,
      where the atoms are locked in both space and orientation.  =
  The
      big question, "Would a crystalline diamagnetic solid exhibit this
      magnetIc "roughness", perhaps equivalent to the Barkhausen noise?&nbs=
p;
        The experiment to perform here is to use a Barkhausen test
      setup, but substitute carbon for iron.     =
=20














      Charles R. Patton





       





On 7/9/2012 9:34 AM, chrisatupw@....... wrote: 





From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@.........





          Sent: Mon, 9 Jul 2012 15:02





          Subject: Re: diamagnetic levitation seismometer possibility





        




       =20




         =20




            
               =20



I, too, have carried out diamagnetic levitation
                  experiments similar to those by Meredith Lamb.
                  Although the large amplitude motion looks smooth and
                  frictionless, what I concluded for very small
                  amplitudes, such is not the case. The supporting
                  magnetic field has small-scale roughness, and the
                  levitated graphite tends to hung up in the hills and
                  valleys of the resulting force. 




               =20









I don't understand this. I would only expect 'field roughn=
ess' to show up for linear motions comparable to the levitation height, of =
1/2 to 1 mm, NOT for tiny movements of ~100 nano metres. 



    One problem that I had with levita=
ting graphite was due to it's propensity to pick up lint, hairs and dust.&n=
bsp;These can and do effect a very light slider. Another problem is th=
e extremely high field gradients at the edges of the magnets picks up magne=
tic and paramagnetic dust only too easily. I clean magnets using a roll of =
PVC tape - you stick it onto the surface and then peel it of with the rubbi=
sh attached.



 



    Regards, 



 



    Chris Chapman=


 


 












 =20