PSN-L Email List Message

Subject: Re: egg model of earth
From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@.............
Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 19:24:19 -0600


On 3/2/2013 3:44 PM, Geoff wrote:
> On 2/28/2013 3:35 PM, Randall Peters wrote:
>>
>> Geoff,
>>
>>      I appreciate your interest in what has been one of the great 
>> challenges of physics; i.e., to understand from first principles of 
>> theory the origin and nature of our planet's magnetic field.  I don't 
>> know of any physicist, myself included, who has a satisfactory 
>> conceptual answer to questions you have posed.  The complexity of the 
>> matter, based in nonlinearity, makes it a 'tough, near impossible, 
>> nut to crack'.  Greatly complicated numerical models, running on fast 
>> computers, apparently provide some insights; but to my knowledge 
>> nobody has 'brought to the table' the kind of 'simplicity' that 
>> physics always strives for.
>>
>>      There is a 'model' of the Earth, having to do with earthquakes, 
>> that is unrelated (at least directly) to its magnetic field; and 
>> which is very much concerned with its crustal properties.   Your 
>> mention of an egg caused me to think about this model once again.  
>> Imagine our planet being somewhat similar to a multiply cracked 
>> hard-boiled egg.  The dynamics of the tidal force (moon/sun, mostly 
>> moon) acting on the crust as it rotates, can be thought of as like 
>> the cracked egg being rolled under pressure between the hands.  Every 
>> snap, crackle, pop of the shell that happens because of this process 
>> results in vibrations of the egg.  At a given time and position of a 
>> particular rapid dislocation of shell parts, there is something like 
>> an earthquake; and thereafter there are dampened oscillations like 
>> free oscillations (what physicists call eigenmodes).  Years ago 
>> (around 1990) my student named M H Kwon saw with an instrument built 
>> for other purposes---free oscillations of the earth that were clearly 
>> correlated with the lunar cycle (and thus the tidal force).   To my 
>> knowledge there has never been any interest shown in his PhD 
>> dissertation (or a paper that we wrote in 1995 on the matter) by 
>> professionals of the seismology or geosciences world.  This has 
>> surprised me, since around 1998 there was something of a 'wood-stock 
>> of seismology' associated with the observation of near constant free 
>> oscillations of the earth at higher (though still milli-Hertz) 
>> frequencies.
>>
>>    Randall
>>
>
>
> Mr. Randall Peters,
>
> This is all fine and well yet it is my interest to understand
> if the inner core is isolated from the mantel by its liquid
> outer core ?
>
> K must be the outer core
> i must be the inner core
>
> PKiKP ???
> as the wave travels,
>
> It is my understanding that if such a
> condition really exists,
> The inner core can rotate at a
> different rate than does the
> Mantel.
>
> The outer core will somewhat isolate
> the motions of the two bodies,
> Mantel from the inner core.
>
> It is also my understanding that the
> peak pressures will occur within the
> outer core since there should be no gravity
> or negative gravity (pulling in all directions)
> at the moment of mass.
>
> Due to mechanical lever arm advantages, the action of the tides
> should affect the surface of the Earth, thus the
> Mantel, much more than the massive solid iron inner core.
>
> This means to me that the inner core shall always
> be lagging behind in phase in this apparent breaking action.
> The breaking action being the affect of the turbulence or currents
> created within the liquid part part of the core.
>
> At the moment I do not speak of oscillations,
> I speak of mechanical motions. Conservation of momentum (in whatever 
> form),
> and frictional forces. Oscillations, to me, are pure energy, 
> independent of mass.
>
> I look at the universe though the eyes of a Newtonian fan.
>
> I have a hard time seeing pure energy only, within
> the framework of my mind.
>
> I must relate whatever to something I already know.
>
> I know if you take an EGG.
> Spin it.
> Stop it.
> Immediately let it go.
> The egg will once again spin (slower than at first) on its own due
> to potential/kinetic energy stored inside.
>
> I learned this to be able to tell a hard boiled egg
> from a fresh egg. Not to understand the earth.
>
> I see the Earth, like an egg, layered within.
>
> If you could do this to the Earth, Like an Egg, the
> Earth would behave in a similar fashion ??
>
> My education is only two years over high school.
>
> I never made it to those nifty 500 series courses
> which are reserved for baccalauréat graduates.
>
> Can you tell me, whether or not, I am thinking correctly, about the 
> Earth and its structure ?
>
> Regards,
> geoff
Geoff,interesting discussion but I wonder if you are aware what the 
anatomy of an egg 
is.....https://www.google.com/search?q=parts+of+an+egg&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=PHe&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=p6QyUYCtGae70QGbqoDIBA&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=646&bih=355 
.... 
there is an attachment of the yoke to the shell called the chalaza

  
    
  
  
    
On 3/2/2013 3:44 PM, Geoff wrote:
On 2/28/2013 3:35 PM, Randall Peters wrote:

Geoff,

     I appreciate your interest in what has been one of the great challenges of physics; i.e., to understand from first principles of theory the origin and nature of our planet’s magnetic field.  I don’t know of any physicist, myself included, who has a satisfactory conceptual answer to questions you have posed.  The complexity of the matter, based in nonlinearity, makes it a ‘tough, near impossible, nut to crack’.  Greatly complicated numerical models, running on fast computers, apparently provide some insights; but to my knowledge nobody has ‘brought to the table’ the kind of ‘simplicity’ that physics always strives for. 

     There is a ‘model’ of the Earth, having to do with earthquakes, that is unrelated (at least directly) to its magnetic field; and which is very much concerned with its crustal properties.   Your mention of an egg caused me to think about this model once again.  Imagine our planet being somewhat similar to a multiply cracked hard-boiled egg.  The dynamics of the tidal force (moon/sun, mostly moon) acting on the crust as it rotates, can be thought of as like the cracked egg being rolled under pressure between the hands.  Every snap, crackle, pop of the shell that happens because of this process results in vibrations of the egg.  At a given time and position of a particular rapid dislocation of shell parts, there is something like an earthquake; and thereafter there are dampened oscillations like free oscillations (what physicists call eigenmodes).  Years ago (around 1990) my student named M H Kwon saw with an instrument built for other purposes—free oscillations of the earth that were clearly correlated with the lunar cycle (and thus the tidal force).   To my knowledge there has never been any interest shown in his PhD dissertation (or a paper that we wrote in 1995 on the matter) by professionals of the seismology or geosciences world.  This has surprised me, since around 1998 there was something of a ‘wood-stock of seismology’ associated with the observation of near constant free oscillations of the earth at higher (though still milli-Hertz) frequencies. 

   Randall

     



Mr. Randall Peters,

This is all fine and well yet it is my interest to understand
if the inner core is isolated from the mantel by its liquid
outer core ?

K must be the outer core
i must be the inner core

PKiKP ???
as the wave travels,

It is my understanding that if such a
condition really exists,
The inner core can rotate at a
different rate than does the
Mantel.

The outer core will somewhat isolate
the motions of the two bodies,
Mantel from the inner core.

It is also my understanding that the
peak pressures will occur within the
outer core since there should be no gravity
or negative gravity (pulling in all directions)
at the moment of mass.

Due to mechanical lever arm advantages, the action of the tides
should affect the surface of the Earth, thus the
Mantel, much more than the massive solid iron inner core.

This means to me that the inner core shall always
be lagging behind in phase in this apparent breaking action.
The breaking action being the affect of the turbulence or currents
created within the liquid part part of the core.

At the moment I do not speak of oscillations,
I speak of mechanical motions. Conservation of momentum (in whatever form),
and frictional forces. Oscillations, to me, are pure energy, independent of mass.

I look at the universe though the eyes of a Newtonian fan.

I have a hard time seeing pure energy only, within
the framework of my mind.

I must relate whatever to something I already know.

I know if you take an EGG.
Spin it.
Stop it.
Immediately let it go.
The egg will once again spin (slower than at first) on its own due
to potential/kinetic energy stored inside.

I learned this to be able to tell a hard boiled egg
from a fresh egg. Not to understand the earth.

I see the Earth, like an egg, layered within.

If you could do this to the Earth, Like an Egg, the
Earth would behave in a similar fashion ??

My education is only two years over high school.

I never made it to those nifty 500 series courses
which are reserved for baccalauréat graduates.

Can you tell me, whether or not, I am thinking correctly, about the Earth and its structure ?

Regards,
geoff
Geoff,interesting discussion but I wonder if you are aware what the anatomy of an egg is..... https://www.google.com/search?q=parts+of+an+egg&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=PHe&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=p6QyUYCtGae70QGbqoDIBA&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=646&bih=355  .... there is an attachment of the yoke to the shell called the chalaza

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