PSN-L Email List Message

Subject: TURKEY: Re: Strong motion for Santa Cruz mountain home
From: Edward Cranswick cranswick@........
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:53:57 -0600


PSN and others-
    There is a large number of people in Turkey at right now -- several tens of
millions -- who are in an excited state because of the Izmet Earthquake
, and many would be interested in having some
kind of seismograph to monitor weak/strong ground motions. I saw more cell-phones
in Istanbul than I have seen anywhere else; the populace is definitely hardware
conscious. The only thing they don't have is a cheap, reliable seismic data
acquisition unit built in the same mode as a PC computer; you take it out of the
box, plug it in, and it starts working. Something like a Kinemetrics K2, but an
order-of-magnitude cheaper, i.e., less than a $1000.
    So the interest is there; where is the device?
-Edward

Bob Phinney wrote:

> To:  John Evans and friends...
> PEPP has been locked in amber for a year while we have haggled with NSF
> education folks about continued funding.  We now are funded.
>
> GaryPavlis:  check the bottom for my response.
>
> "John R. Evans" wrote:
> >
> > Doug,
> >
> > Thank you for your enthusiastic and thoughtful response to
> > my e-mails on the ICS-3028 accelerometer design.  By Cc: of
> > this e-mail, I'm soliciting key colleagues' thoughts on the
> > issues.
> >
> > YES, the thought of gillions of strong-motion sensors on-line
> > is extremely interesting to us.  Indeed, we've been nurturing such
> > fantasies for some time, and are in the process of working toward
> > a "big science" solution (well, big for us anyway).  But we would
> > also be very interested in a good small-science/amateur solution,
> > to augment any array we might eventually build.  PSN and similarly
> > interested folks could make a truly valuable contribution, given
> > the extreme spatial variability of shaking strength, the need for
> > detailed data to test models and improve building codes, and the
> > skills and dedication shown by you folks over the years.
> >
> > A suggestion:  I could try to get some official "outreach"
> > money or even a little internal "Team" money (we're talking
> > small dollars and moderate staff time) to create a 3-accel
> > redesign and make a large purchase of these boards possible.
> > USGS could buy that bunch of boards and make them available
> > to those showing serious interest (PSN, high-school science
> > teachers, etc.).  As you point out, the board is the hardest
> > bit to do in small quantities.  I'm sure between you and other
> > PSN members, the appropriate software will follow shortly.
> >
> > (Also, there may be a commercial solution not too far off, I'd
> > guess for in the neighborhood of $1000, but nothing is firm.)
> >
> > You and like minded folks could then make a group purchase of
> > the other parts.  (ICS is in Milpitas, and they sell through an
> > EG&G building in Santa Clara.  They take Visa and doubtless other
> > forms of green.)  The only other hard parts to find are the low-
> > value trimming resistors (must be metal film, should be low Ct,
> > should be low wattage to fit the board and keep leads short, as
> > must be).  I have the start of a comprehensive collection here
> > and we might find a way to help each other make a more extensive
> > central stash for all to draw from.  There may be a significant
> > advantage in buying the Op Amps and thermistors in bulk too, and
> > you might want to buy a bunch of mounting blocks from a machinist
> > somewhere.
> >
> > Yes, that's three acceleration channels and one temperature.
> > The design does not compensate for temperature variation of
> > sensitivity (too noisy), which is done digitally in the data
> > collection system (ICS supplies the needed, serial-number-
> > specific coefficients).  I have software to help select pairs
> > of compensating resistors from any pool, by the way.
> >
> > We would offer guidance on siting to get "free field" sites.
> > Basically, anyone with a one- or two-story wood-frame house
> > and a garage, utility room, or outbuilding with a grade-level
> > slab (and no basement beneath) has a nearly ideal spot--one
> > we've had our eyes on for several years.  Such structures are
> > light and have little effect on the seismic signal (i.e., they
> > have minimal "soil-structure interaction").  The accelerometers
> > need to be rigidly affixed to the slab, preferably away from
> > large noise sources like washing machines.  They also need some
> > insulation to keep air circulation down and slow the temperature
> > changes.  Any decent chunk of urethane foam will do the trick.
> >
> > My schedule these days is totally nuts, but this is something
> > I could probably fit in over the next year.  Alternatively, I
> > could give guidance and let someone else do the legwork of the
> > board re-design.  Indeed, the notion of making kits available
> > might get PSN's interest?  (Anyone out there interested in
> > making a single-board with 18-bit ADCs on it too?)  In any
> > case, someone else will have to do any resistor pulling from
> > the central stash (I can't afford to offer my time for that,
> > but we could at least build upon my existing $1200 stash).
> >
> > We already accept Internet reports of MMI (Modified Mercalli
> > Intensity--observations of local earthquake effects/damage) so
> > adding a semi-secure port for shaking metrics would probably be
> > straightforward.  We would be interested in shaking metrics (peak
> > accelerations, peak velocities, etc.--we can help with software)
> > in the first minutes after an event to help build our ShakeMap
> > images.  We would be extremely interested in the waveforms too
> > (after a few hours or days) and could be a good release route
> > for those data, if you desire.  That availability could make the
> > waveforms very valuable for the structural engineering community
> > as well, though they are a very conservative lot (since they can
> > be sued if they goof).  Appropriate caveats would have to be
> > attached to the waveforms ("amateur generated--use at your own
> > risk" or something like that).  I think it would be worth our
> > investment in software if there were hundreds or more of sites.
> >
> > Realize that I'm not yet able to offer an "official" proposal.
> > This is part of the discussion that could lead to a proposal
> > within the USGS to do some or all of what I suggest here.  It
> > would help for that process if you got some firm measure of the
> > number of folks with serious, immediate interest, at least in
> > PSN.  Given our various experiences with asking for help siting
> > our own instruments, I suspect there would be lots of interest,
> > with the main negative the need to build and maintain it
> > yourself.
> >
> > I don't know why Guralp is non-responsive.  For PEPP, contact
> > Prof. Robert Phinney (rphinney@...............  Bob can point
> > you to the right person to answer your questions.  (Bob:  any
> > thoughts on bringing PEPP into this to make strong-motion
> > available to science teachers?)
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > John
> > jrevans@........
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Doug wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, you wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a design for a good but relatively inexpensive (ca.
> > > > $500 parts for three components) strong-motion sensor.
> > >
> > > This is excellent. Thank you for the information.
> > >
> > > I took a look at the report and component listing, and it
> > > looks really interesting.  But I am wondering how hard it
> > > will be to source parts in single quantities, and also
> > > the production of the PCB board would be very difficult
> > > for me.  I am very interested in getting a strong motion
> > > sensor set up like the one you outlined, and the cost is
> > > not a problem.  But do I have to build it from scratch?
> > > Any ideas on how I might get an assembled one, or at
> > > least a PCB board for it?  It appears to be exactly what
> > > I am looking for but I'm a software guy and I'm not sure
> > > I'm up to the task of putting it together from scratch.
> > > Any ideas or suggestions?  I'd sure like to try hooking
> > > up ethernet to this 3028-based sensor.
> > >
> > > > You will need four channels (the fourth for temperature)
> > > > if you use it.
> > >
> > > Is that three ICS-3028s and one thermistor?
> > >
> > > > PEPP would be interesting and useful too (Susan Schwartz at
> > > > UCSC would like some teleseismic records, I'm sure, to look
> > > > at anisotropy) but strong-motion is my passion (and bias!).
> > >
> > > I am very interested in the PEPP system also, and intend
> > > to get one. Strangely though I can't seem to get a reply
> > > from the people at Guralp. I sent two emails to their
> > > north american sales rep asking for pricing and how to
> > > order, but no reply so far. Any idea who I might talk to
> > > to get one the CMG-PEPP units?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Doug
> > >
> > > PS. It would be really interesting to put together a fairly
> > >     low cost yet useful strong motion sensor that could be
> > >     plug-and-play on the internet, automatically joining a
> > >     "federation" of other sensors.  It would be cool to
> > >     have a station that anyone can use, with software that
> > >     automatically sends event data to a site on the net
> > >     that USGS could use for analysis.  One could imagine
> > >     1000s of these sensors plugged into everyday networks
> > >     all around the san andreas, imagine how much data
> > >     could be gathered!
> The (single vertical component) Guralp PEPPVb instrument was done by Cansun
> himself,  and Steve Pauly was left out of the loop.  We are not certain whether
> they will continue to offer these instruments.
>
> Now that we are funded,  we are trying to pull together an information base
> on all possible instruments for high school use.  This will include tricky
> stuff like,  can I order in quantity 1?  is the instrumnet design stable?
> what is its noise?.  Almost all of the newer digitizer/data logger designs
> for a PC permit several channels of input/display.  So i assume that a strong
> motion channel would be an excellent extension of the basic instrument.
>
> As you might suspect,   established players in the CA seismic network business
> feel swamped by their present stations,  and have given us little indication
> of wanting to add lots of additional stations with poorer S/N and dubious
> maintenance problems.  However,  by adding a strong mkotion instrument,  things
> might change quickly.  All of those SM instruments would serve a big public
> need.
>
> Re: California.  At present,  there are stirrings from teachers in CA who
> would like to run a seismic station.  We hope to structure some "How to
> get started" material,  which will include encouragement for teachers to
> form into local networks of 2-?  under the auspices of a local college/univ.
>
> --
> Robert A. Phinney
> Dept. of Geosciences
> Princeton University
> Princeton, NJ 08544-1003
> 609-258-4118 (ph)       609-258-1274 (f)
> rphinney@.............  [new on 23 June].

--
Edward Cranswick                Tel: 303-273-8609
US Geological Survey, MS 966    Fax: 303-273-8600
PO Box 25046, Federal Center    cranswick@........
Denver, CO 80225-0046  USA      E.M. Forster said, "Only connect".




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Larry Cochrane <cochrane@..............>